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View Full Version : Sexy as they are deadly [3.5]



KatfishKaos
2010-05-13, 08:36 PM
Hey playgrounders,

I come once again asking for help. One of my players wants to play an Incubus, taking a look at them (from Savage Species) I was unsurprisingly underwhelmed. Whilst they have some 'neat' abilities, they sadly remain neat. They in no way compare to other classes at level 12. They don't have the BAB to support heavy combat (short of magical buffs and the rest), they don't have the magic to be a blaster/batman or anything else. They don't have the skills to be the skill monkey.

So, I come here asking a few things. Has someone possibly made a fix, or re-done the Incubus? Is there a template almost like the half-dragon/devil/angel,etc? I understand that at times templates can be restrictive. But for the campaign i'm running it's quirky enough that I really don't want to say no.

The campaign is also set to start off at level 3. So if you've got another ridiculously charisma high fae/whatever flying about throw it at me and i'll see what I can do with it! Help me playgrounders, you are my only hope.

deuxhero
2010-05-13, 08:42 PM
Take the Succubus in this thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724
and use it for an Incubus.

nyarlathotep
2010-05-13, 08:48 PM
There was also a separate incubus race in a dragon magazine somewhere. I can't remember the number though.

krossbow
2010-05-13, 10:16 PM
I never really thought you needed a seperate template for the Incubus myself; Just take the succubus, call it a guy, and bam, there you go.

KatfishKaos
2010-05-14, 01:27 AM
I never really thought you needed a seperate template for the Incubus myself; Just take the succubus, call it a guy, and bam, there you go.

No, no. I didn't mean a separate template. Merely that I find the one in Savage Species boring, and about as inspired as a cheese sandwich.

krossbow
2010-05-14, 01:32 AM
No, no. I didn't mean a separate template. Merely that I find the one in Savage Species boring, and about as inspired as a cheese sandwich.


Oh, doy, my bad:smalltongue:. carry on.

awa
2010-05-14, 09:35 AM
The thing is while its not going to be able to match a caster at high level it doesn't come off to badly against other classes sure it doesn't have the base attack of a fighter or the hp and its max skill ranks are lower.

Its saves are going to be all around decent becuase it has no bad saves and bonuses to all stats.

it might not be able to hit as hard as a martial charecter but it has +9 natural armor and damage reduction which will make it harder to hurt.

With its int bonus its skills will be lower rank but it will have more of them and with it's stat bonuses it wont be terrible at any skill and its really high charisma bonus means social skills will be great.

But the classes real power isn't being a skill monkey or a a fighter its being a succubus by level 12 they have a lot of useful at will powers

They get at will flight by level 3 that's good you cant deny that
and telepathy 100 at level 2 so you can grab mind sight also fun.

And the killer is a 10% chance of summoning a balor at level 12 that's like a 10% chance of winning the encounter for free it wont happen often but when it does you can rush through the dungeon

so in conclusion i do not believe the succubus/incubus is a terrible choice it can stand its ground with fighters, rouges, and barbarians it's just got its own niche.

Now in more heavily optimized games the succubus will start to become less useful at the higher levels as it's abbilities will stop scaling and things like natural armor become less useful so some modification to the level buy off might be in order

Chen
2010-05-14, 09:47 AM
And the killer is a 10% chance of summoning a balor at level 12 that's like a 10% chance of winning the encounter for free it wont happen often but when it does you can rush through the dungeon


This was always a stupid stupid ability to give the Succubi/Inccubi. 10% chance of TPK, fun...

Gnaeus
2010-05-14, 09:47 AM
Almost all the savage species classes are weak, because they are designed to be weak to keep players away from monsters.

Look at your other players and their levels of optimization. Decide what level a full Succubus would be in your campaign. Delete enough of the levels to put a succubus there, and distribute their bonuses through the class. Start with the levels with no HD, just LA.

awa
2010-05-14, 09:56 AM
they changed it to a vrock in 3.5 which is more reasonable

Serpentine
2010-05-14, 10:04 AM
No, no. I didn't mean a separate template. Merely that I find the one in Savage Species boring, and about as inspired as a cheese sandwich.Hey, I like cheese sandwiches.

Eldariel
2010-05-14, 01:24 PM
Hey, I like cheese sandwiches.

So do I, but that does not make me found them particularly inspired or interesting :smallwink:

pffh
2010-05-14, 02:01 PM
So do I, but that does not make me found them particularly inspired or interesting :smallwink:

Oh boy have you been eating the wrong kind of cheese sandwiches.

OT: Oslecamos thread has already been linked and I'm currently running a game with one of his classes (the minotaur) and it's working really well so I recommend checking his thread for all your monster pc needs.

here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724) is the link again.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-14, 05:09 PM
This was always a stupid stupid ability to give the Succubi/Inccubi. 10% chance of TPK, fun...

IE:

Summon Balor
Order Balor around for the duration of your control over it
Duration Expires, Balor goes home.
Balor plane shifts back and kills the pathetic loser who dared to summon him.


obnoxious
sig

Worira
2010-05-14, 05:15 PM
I don't think that's what a balor would do with a succubus that owed it a favour, actually.

krossbow
2010-05-14, 05:16 PM
I think the balor thing was a misguided attempt to make low CR demons still a threat to high level parties; a VERY misguided attempt.


Demons should only be able to call less powerful demons to do their bidding; It'd be like a Mcdonald's owner summoning his CEO to clean the grease traps. You delegate DOWNWARD, not upward.

awa
2010-05-14, 10:43 PM
i don't think they have any special control over things they summon you just only summon things that will obey you for whatever reason also they are in the summoned creatures debt.

Icewraith
2010-05-15, 01:09 AM
Well in a Gestalt game I'd say take the level adjustment on the other side of the racial HD and add class levels, RP summon attempts and never ever let it summon a Balor.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-15, 01:18 AM
So the thread isn't about these guys?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98668.jpg

obnoxious
sig

Lord Vukodlak
2010-05-15, 02:05 AM
IE:

Summon Balor
Order Balor around for the duration of your control over it
Duration Expires, Balor goes home.
Balor plane shifts back and kills the pathetic loser who dared to summon him.


obnoxious
sig

Actually the balor could kill the succubus first. The summon demon ability says NOTHING about actually controlling.

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-15, 02:21 AM
Take the Succubus in this thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724
and use it for an Incubus.

If you haven't heeded this man's instruction yet, do so. Here, I'll link you directly there. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7951939&postcount=29)

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-15, 02:25 AM
Actually the balor could kill the succubus first. The summon demon ability says NOTHING about actually controlling.

I thought that there was a clause somewhere regarding the tanaari summoning abilities and an obligation to serve the summoner for a duration.

I'll see if I can dig it up.

obnoxious
sig

awa
2010-05-15, 08:57 AM
i think its just assumed that whatever they summon helps it in return for a favor latter