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Balor01
2010-05-14, 06:48 AM
I was wondering - munchkin-wise - , how much dmg could optimised lvl 20 wiz-blaster produce by burrning ALL spell slots available after one rest? I assume all spells should be maximised, etc ...

Barring infinite dmg, but even that may be mentioned if it is possible.

Greenish
2010-05-14, 07:14 AM
Assuming single target, no SR, negligible saves and only direct damage, no summons?

Also, wizard 20 or any wizard build?

JeminiZero
2010-05-14, 07:18 AM
A Wizard/Sorc can get *sort of* get infinite damage through reserve feats. Or he could break the spells per day economy by stockpiling Explosive Runes, or setting up spellblade tennis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151109).

For something at the practical optimization level, a Mailman Sorcerer is probably an ideal candidate. From a maximizing damage standpoint, you are probably only going to cast one spell repeatedly for each spell level, so his limited spells known is less of an issue. He also gets more Spells per day than the Wizard, and since spells maximizing damage probably consists casting he same handful of spells repeatedly.

Killer Angel
2010-05-14, 07:23 AM
I was wondering - munchkin-wise - , how much dmg could optimised lvl 20 wiz-blaster produce by burrning ALL spell slots available after one rest? I assume all spells should be maximised, etc ...


Pretty sure A LOT.
But you should specify some things:
Must be a wizard or can be a sorcerer?
Sources allowed (core only, splatbooks, etc)?
Magic equipment accordingly to WBL, or only spells and feats?
Why do you need it? it's just for the sake of it?

Emmerask
2010-05-14, 07:37 AM
Well you could use a reserve feat and therefore could cast for example the mini fireball infinite times (as long as you have a 2nd level fire spell) and therefore have infinite damage (infinite time req^^) but that is not really spell slot usage ^^

Your best bet seem to be orb of x spells + maximize + energy admixture + empower. 11h level slot -3 incantatrix -3 arcane thesis = 5th level slot and up (could do some more on those high level slots, since we would not care about quicken I guess that leaves some room for improvement.
dealing 30d6 (maximized 180) + 15d6 (empower 52) ~ 232 dmg

Assuming we can get 10 slots for each level thats 50 * 232 dmg = 11600 dmg
the 4th level will only be empowered (0 meta costs) so thats 22d6 * 10 = 770dmg

Hm the lower slots I doubt they will be above 1000dmg all combined
so all in all 13370...

Iīm sure you can do much much more if you stack more meta reducers and actually use more metamagic on the higher level slots (which I didnīt because Iīm lazy :smallwink:) or simply get more spellslots via items or feats etc... so maybe double or tripple that one again ^^

Twin spell for example could be used for 9th level etc...

Prodan
2010-05-14, 07:45 AM
685 quadrillion damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2010735#post2010735)

Balor01
2010-05-14, 08:05 AM
685 quadrillion damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2010735#post2010735)
Is this real?


Pretty sure A LOT.
But you should specify some things:
Must be a wizard or can be a sorcerer?
Sources allowed (core only, splatbooks, etc)?
Magic equipment accordingly to WBL, or only spells and feats?
Why do you need it? it's just for the sake of it?
Can be sorcerer.
All books.
Magic equipment accordingly to WBL.
I was wondering (I do that a lot as a DM of high-power, high lvl campaign), if one could homebrew a monster with so much hp it would survive a lvl 20 blaster attacks, say by giving it enough HD for let's say 5.000 hp. Just a stupid brute with no DR, SR, just lots of hp.

Greenish
2010-05-14, 08:08 AM
Is this real?It's killing catgirls by mixing real world physics with D&D magic.

Can be sorcerer.
All books.
Magic equipment accordingly to WBL.
I was wondering (I do that a lot as a DM of high-power, high lvl campaign), if one could homebrew a monster with so much hp it would survive a lvl 20 blaster attacks, say by giving it enough HD for let's say 5.000 hp. Just a stupid brute with no DR, SR, just lots of hp.5 000 hitpoints stupid brute with no DR or SR is fun if your players also enjoy tunneling through mountains with adamantine weapons.

Anyway, why should they even bother to nuke it's hp when it doesn't have any other defenses?

Foryn Gilnith
2010-05-14, 08:11 AM
Is this real?

It involves a level of extrapolation that places the number in question firmly outside the bounds of RAW. Antimatter explosions, however, are arguably RAW (debates hinge upon the "matter" part of Major Creation and metagame knowledge). Nuclear material -> critical mass -> explosion is entirely feasible in-universe, however; if unlikely to happen.

Emmerask
2010-05-14, 08:16 AM
Anyway, why should they even bother to nuke it's hp when it doesn't have any other defenses?

Yep itīs one or two ubercharger attacks depending on level of optimization and char level, no need for nukes :smalltongue: (we are talking munchkin donīt we?)
Or just use control spell xy and slit itīs throat :smallwink:

Greenish
2010-05-14, 08:18 AM
Or just use control spell xy and have it slit it's own throat :smallwink:Fixed for you.

Emmerask
2010-05-14, 08:20 AM
Fixed for you.

Then the fighter has nothing to do :smalleek:

Greenish
2010-05-14, 08:22 AM
Then the fighter has nothing to do :smalleek:It's level 20. He's been putting points to Craft: Cooking and Profession: Servant for a while now, and is tending the mage's mansion.

Emmerask
2010-05-14, 08:23 AM
It's level 20. He's been putting points to Craft: Cooking and Profession: Servant for a while now, and is tending the mage's mansion.

:smallbiggrin:

Killer Angel
2010-05-14, 08:24 AM
I was wondering (I do that a lot as a DM of high-power, high lvl campaign), if one could homebrew a monster with so much hp it would survive a lvl 20 blaster attacks, say by giving it enough HD for let's say 5.000 hp. Just a stupid brute with no DR, SR, just lots of hp.

Leaving apart Greenish's considerations (which I fully support), you don't really need a "real" number. Give the monster an arbitrary high number of hp, in the order of thousands... remembering that said blaster cannot release all his potential damage in a couple of rounds. :smallwink:

Greenish
2010-05-14, 08:27 AM
remembering that said blaster cannot release all his potential damage in a couple of rounds. :smallwink:Metamagicced Delayed Blast Fireballs (with the feat to uncap the CL -> Damage) + timestop.

Or just another plane with hugely sped up time trait. Nuke through gate, get n years of actions before your enemy gets to act.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-05-14, 08:28 AM
Leaving apart Greenish's considerations (which I fully support), you don't really need a "real" number. Give the monster an arbitrary high number of hp, in the order of thousands... remembering that said blaster cannot release all his potential damage in a couple of rounds. :smallwink:

What about the Mailman?

Eldariel
2010-05-14, 08:29 AM
Delay Spell + Anything + Time Stop does allow using all those spells in one turn even without Arcane Fusion + Celerity-loops. Just sayin'. There's even an extremely silly self-loop with Arcane Fusions using Sanctum Spell to make it count as a spell of a lower level.

PId6
2010-05-14, 09:23 AM
Arcane Fusion + Sanctum Spell + Magic Missile = infinite damage.

Alternatively, Extended Persistent Creeping Cold = 1d6 the first round, 2d6 the second round, 3d6 the third round, and so on for 48 hours. That's 28800 rounds of damage. Not going to bother calculating that. And this is just from a single spell slot.

Using only "traditional" means though, you can get crazy amounts of damage through metamagic reducers. Focused Specialist Incantatrix at level 20 with Arcane Thesis + Reserves of Strength on Scorching Ray is probably the best bet, for 7 rays at CL 27 (assume an additional +2 CL modifier). Apply Easy Metamagic as much as possible, and let's see what can happen: Twinned (+1 Easy) Empowered (+0) Maximized (+0 Easy) Repeated (+0 Easy) Split Ray (+0) Energy Admixtured (+1 Easy) Energy Subbed (-1) Echoing (+0 Easy) Born of the Three Thunders (-1) for lots of damage inside a 2nd level slot.

The spell fires 28 rays on the first round, each dealing 48 + 4d6 damage. The next turn, the spell repeats for another 28 rays at the same damage. Each hour after casting it, the spell slot returns and is cast at 4 CL lower, That means that after 1 hour, you cast it again for 24 rays, then 2 hours later for 20 rays, and then 16 rays, then 12 rays, then 8 rays, and finally 4 rays, all of which are repeated. So that's a total of (28 + 24 + 20 + 16 + 12 + 8 + 4) * 2 * (48 + 4d6) = 13,888 average damage out of a single 2nd level spell slot.

Now stuff your 2nd and higher level spell slots full of these, and see how high you can get.

Telonius
2010-05-14, 09:36 AM
It involves a level of extrapolation that places the number in question firmly outside the bounds of RAW. Antimatter explosions, however, are arguably RAW (debates hinge upon the "matter" part of Major Creation and metagame knowledge). Nuclear material -> critical mass -> explosion is entirely feasible in-universe, however; if unlikely to happen.

It's also using a 50th-level caster. For a 20th-level caster, you'd have 0.55 cubic meters. So we only have 1435 kg = 1,435,000 g of anti-osmium, yielding a 61,705,000,000 kilogram blast. 135,914,096,916 instances of 3d6, or 407,742,290,748 d6. Average damage: 1,427,098,017,621. Still well over a trillion damage, but not in the quadrillion range.

Arakune
2010-05-14, 09:39 AM
We need to put some Twin in there too. And Repeat, just in case.

Killer Angel
2010-05-14, 11:37 AM
What about the Mailman?

Fair enough, but given that the OP is looking for a mere sack of hp, i don't think he (or his players) can came out with such optimization.
Meh, I don't know, if truth must be said, he was asking for cheese, so yeah, a wiz. can release tons of damage very quickly.

But at this point, giving the BBEG 4.000 hp or 8.000 hp (without any kind of resistance or immunity) don't really make the difference...

Doc Roc
2010-05-14, 02:01 PM
I've hit about 100d6 in one shot, or so... no save, without reserves of strength.

Prodan
2010-05-14, 02:04 PM
With Streamers, no doubt.

WoodenSword
2010-05-14, 02:07 PM
If you stack all of the "Treat yourself as X levels higher" feats, I actually was a 3rd level character treated as a 20th (granted, only with ray of fire and only against an Outsider) and at 19th, I was unstoppable

Arbitrarity
2010-05-14, 02:54 PM
http://web.archive.org/web/20080221060644/forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-573196.html


Total damage on last casting of BotM > a^a^...(31999 as)...a^a, where a>10^10^232610.
Note that a^a^a means a^(a^a), not (a^a)^a.

Most excellent work, psly4mne!

So, the current World Record for non-infinite damage in one round is this astronomical number where:
"a" = 10^10^232,610, then taken to the power of itself 31,999 times in succession.

Classical trick. Not exactly a straight wizard, and contains leadership. But. :smallbiggrin:

subject42
2010-05-14, 02:55 PM
(with the feat to uncap the CL -> Damage)

This feat exists???

Greenish
2010-05-14, 03:10 PM
This feat exists???Reserves of Strength from Dragonlance Campaign Setting has been read as doing just that.

Doc Roc
2010-05-14, 03:28 PM
http://web.archive.org/web/20080221060644/forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-573196.html



Classical trick. Not exactly a straight wizard, and contains leadership. But. :smallbiggrin:

The issue is that really, that's just an intentionally damped infinite loop. And it uses leadership. It is, however, extremely impressive.

tyckspoon
2010-05-14, 03:37 PM
For a relatively straight-forward attempt, notably without abusing metamagics or raping action economy too hard: Timestop, Maw of Chaos, caster-level boosters, and a couple Greater Rods of Maximize. Maximize Timestop, 5x Maximized Maw of Chaos, sit back and enjoy the result. You can hit CL 30 core only (5x levels Archmage selecting Spell Power, 1 Orange Ioun Stone, 4 UMDing a Bead of Karma before starting the fight) without over-specializing your tactic- you just have to choose when to use your Bead. That generates (30x6x5) = 900 damage a round, unavoidable, for 25ish rounds (counting down the time from when the first Maw is placed) with 5 Will saves vs. Daze on each round. If that's not enough, put down a Solid Fog or Wall of Force or similar to hold your victim in place.

Whatever you do with your remaining spell slots is pretty much gravy after that. I would probably go with Enervations (metamagiced as your slot/feat reserves allow) if the target is vulnerable, to help increase the chances of pinning it down with the Daze from all the Maws.

Azernak0
2010-05-14, 03:53 PM
I can't remember who said it, but it basically goes like this:

"At high enough levels of optimization, damage comes in two forms: Infinite or enough to one shot anything in the game."

Magnema
2010-05-14, 05:18 PM
Alternatively, Extended Persistent Creeping Cold = 1d6 the first round, 2d6 the second round, 3d6 the third round, and so on for 48 hours. That's 28800 rounds of damage. Not going to bother calculating that. And this is just from a single spell slot.

414734400d6 damage, if my calculations are correct.