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SpikeFightwicky
2010-05-14, 06:50 AM
Salutations,
I have a Drow-ish question (relevant for character backgrounds): Where do oddities stand in drow society? Of course, by oddities, I mean individuals who break drow "class" customs through no fault of their own. Hopefully, they don't habitually get executed!

For example, how high in the hiarchy would a female drow sorceress be able to reach? (It's a high charisma race, so they've got to be common enough) What about a male drow Favored Soul of Lolth? (Supposing Lolth's crazy/chaotic enough to mess with her priestesses by giving a slice of divine power to a male, which I think she is) What about bards? They're arcane casters of a sorcererish persuation, but quite different overall.

Johel
2010-05-14, 07:06 AM
Salutations,
I have a Drow-ish question (relevant for character backgrounds): Where do oddities stand in drow society? Of course, by oddities, I mean individuals who break drow "class" customs through no fault of their own. Hopefully, they don't habitually get executed!

For example, how high in the hiarchy would a female drow sorceress be able to reach? (It's a high charisma race, so they've got to be common enough) What about a male drow Favored Soul of Lolth? (Supposing Lolth's crazy/chaotic enough to mess with her priestesses by giving a slice of divine power to a male, which I think she is) What about bards? They're arcane casters of a sorcererish persuation, but quite different overall.

Sorcerers : anything that give you an edge over your opponent is a good thing. A sorceress born into a noble house would just be directed toward priesthood and would use her arcane powers as a bonus. A sorceress born into a commoner clan would rise high, as she would quickly gain advantage over her siblings. A male sorcerer would just be treated as a weapon.

Bards :
In a world where stealth is queen, a guy who sing in battle wouldn't be a very popular adventurer. But he can sure make a fortune as an entertainer. If he's born in a commoner clan. Nobles would sacrifice him to Loth to avoid the shame.

Somebloke
2010-05-14, 07:17 AM
From what I understand Drow society, despite being chaotic evil, is does not look well on those that fall outside the norm.

So the response would be to milk the person for all their worth and then kill them as a misfit once their usefulness has ended.

As for bards, I seem to recall some bit of fluff in an ancient Dragon mag stating that they were nearly all spies, and that by some bizarre convention of Drow society meant that it was considered a sign of weakness not to allow them into your home as an entertainer- despite the fact they would almost certainly sell out whatever secrets they found to the highest bidder.

As for a male favoured soul, Lloth would possibly grant these powers to a man. She would not, however, protect him from a probably miffed priesthood (who respond to being miffed with intense violence). Lloth is like that.

Foryn Gilnith
2010-05-14, 08:08 AM
So the response would be to milk the person for all their worth and then kill them as a misfit once their usefulness has ended.
Is there any answer but this?
In one campaign I played in, the misfit drow were sent out as "adventurers" on suicide missions against threats to drow society. They don't run away because of the potential renown (especially for a misfit) accorded them for successes. Of course, some run away, and one of my party mates was one such fellow.

Tyrandar
2010-05-14, 08:24 AM
Cannon fodder, then if they don't die, sacrifices to Lloth.

They're all misfits, CG pariahs, seeking to throw off the oppressive stigma of their kin! :smallcool:

Ingus
2010-05-14, 08:37 AM
All I read is correct, but you can see spots to contradict the rule: out of customs, so you die.
Much of the drow matriarchs are scheming queens and for drow mentality you can kill for fun, for public misfits of heresy, because you're in danger, to obtain Lolth's favor with a sacrifice.
If none of this is met, the strange drow would live and maybe show some utility

So a sorceress in a noble house would be used as lesser rank noble (she's not cleric, after all) and should have a certain amount of respect. A sorcerer would be a not completely useless male, maybe used to do silly tricks and to die soon or later.

A bard, instead, could be very useful. He could entertain boring females with songs and stories, he could be used as messenger or spy or maybe also be useful as he normally is, with the feat "Subsonics", very appropriate for drow bards.

A favored soul male is a drow blessed by Lolth. Drows blessed by Lolth usually end killing each other, just as much as any other drow. So your favoured soul could just be lucky or good enough to have survived since now and be smart enough to understate his power.
No drow directly tries to kill someone: there are "laws" that prohibits and, most of it, "it is strongly unappropriate and trivial do it in such a open way" (drow point of view)

Jane_Smith
2010-05-14, 08:38 AM
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6310/012tey.jpg

>.> I could not resist.

SpikeFightwicky
2010-05-14, 08:52 AM
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6310/012tey.jpg

>.> I could not resist.

My connection's firewall's blocking it :smallfrown:

Good info! Pretty much status quo of 'use 'em 'till they don't work, then sac to Lolth'. Could a male Favored Soul of Lolth gain any significant standing among the clergy?

Also, as an aside, is it just me, or does Drow society seem to be very structured, tradition and rules oriented for a C/E race?

hamishspence
2010-05-14, 08:54 AM
One of the old D&D sourcebooks on the Underdark explained that even chaotic races need to develop a few Lawful traits in order to survive in the Underdark.

Plus Drow are Usually Neutral evil anyway.

The Big Dice
2010-05-14, 08:57 AM
From what I understand Drow society, despite being chaotic evil, is does not look well on those that fall outside the norm.

I always thought it was very cool how Drow society is CE, but most Drow are actually NE. They always remind me of stereotypical company men in 80s Cyberpunk genre movies.

Back on track. Drow would treat misfits with disdain but be willing to use them if they were useful. Having leverage always helps here, up to and including the threat of sacrificing the misfit (or people the misfit cares about) to Lolth. Bear in mind Drow disdain ranges from treating the misfit as a second class citizen all the way to outright enslaving them.

If the misfit steps over the line to becoming an outright renegade, then Lolth is going to want that renegade dead.

hamishspence
2010-05-14, 08:59 AM
Found the original post- here's the info:

AD&D Dungeoneer's Survival Guide (by Douglas Niles)

page 67: Nature of the Underground Environment and its Denizens

section: Philosophy



Every underground culture has developed distinct philosophies. Each culture has several things in common with other races living under the surface, however.
...
Many of these races are chaotic in nature, but this alignment is reflected mainly in large-group organization and coordination. The individuals of each race, whether lawful or chaotic, tend to be very disciplined in their personal habits and social lives. No doubt the scarcity of many resources taken for granted on the surface- most notably air- has forced these creatures to adopt a more careful approach to life.
...
Waste, whether of food, material, or energy, is deplored and often punished severely. Again, the constraints of the environment can easily explain this value. Air is a valuable resource, and the control of its use, particularly regarding fires, is a common feature of underground law.
...
Creatures raised in the underground are usually very stubborn and resistant to change. The most conservative of the surface governments would seem to fluctuate radically and whimsically by comparison. Perhaps this narrow-mindedness arises also from the environment- with solid rock all around, the options available when a decision is required are often seriously limited.

Greenish
2010-05-14, 09:08 AM
Hehe, author's saving throw (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlehr8d6bdwnwsk?from=Main.AuthorsSavingThrow) on why drow society is LE.

Godskook
2010-05-14, 09:15 AM
1.Classes are OoC constructs.

2.A Drow Sorcerer would be treated roughly the same as a Drow Wizard, since they're overall capabilities would look the same. For male sorcerers, I suspect you'll be as fine as a Drow Wizard, considering that wizard is a male drow's favored class.

3.Bards, as in all cases, have a multitude of options. Like most have said, Entertainer/Spy is the most likely, but their 'classic' role of war-mage would not be overlooked. It would be impractical for small skirmishes, but expect a few to crop up in larger battles. They'd also make fine consorts for women, and a smart male Drow would use this to his advantage(Like Wolf from the YAGC comic - NSFW) They'd also fit almost anywhere a rogue or wizard would.

4.A male Drow favored soul would be a literal culture bomb. He should compare to Malcolm X, Martin Luther, or other out-spoken often assassinated figurehead. And as a favored soul, he *should* be making waves. That's what FS's do.

Greenish
2010-05-14, 09:18 AM
3.Bards, as in all cases, have a multitude of options. Like most have said, Entertainer/Spy is the most likely, but their 'classic' role of war-mage would not be overlooked. It would be impractical for small skirmishes, but expect a few to crop up in larger battles. They'd also make fine consorts for women, and a smart male Drow would use this to his advantage(Like Wolf from the YAGC comic - NSFW) They'd also fit almost anywhere a rogue or wizard would.There was a drow bard in one of the Forgotten Realms novels that I dimply recall, I think it was by Elaine Cunningham…

He was called "Death-chanter" or something like that (I didn't read it in English and it was long time ago) and shown some respect because, uhm, he sang really edgy and dark songs or something.

SpikeFightwicky
2010-05-14, 09:27 AM
1.Classes are OoC constructs.

True, but with in game representation. There aren't any 'sorcerers' per se, but there are individuals that manifested the ability to cast arcane spells naturally, without any study.


2.A Drow Sorcerer would be treated roughly the same as a Drow Wizard, since they're overall capabilities would look the same. For male sorcerers, I suspect you'll be as fine as a Drow Wizard, considering that wizard is a male drow's favored class.

What about a female drow? As far as I know, arcane studies are mainly left to the males (who are lower than females). So is a female sorcerer (or any spontacaster) treated the same as a male in this regard?


3.Bards, as in all cases, have a multitude of options. Like most have said, Entertainer/Spy is the most likely, but their 'classic' role of war-mage would not be overlooked. It would be impractical for small skirmishes, but expect a few to crop up in larger battles. They'd also make fine consorts for women, and a smart male Drow would use this to his advantage(Like Wolf from the YAGC comic - NSFW) They'd also fit almost anywhere a rogue or wizard would.

Makes sense.


4.A male Drow favored soul would be a literal culture bomb. He should compare to Malcolm X, Martin Luther, or other out-spoken often assassinated figurehead. And as a favored soul, he *should* be making waves. That's what FS's do.

Also makes sense.




There was a drow bard in one of the Forgotten Realms novels that I dimply recall, I think it was by Elaine Cunningham…

He was called "Death-chanter" or something like that (I didn't read it in English and it was long time ago) and shown some respect because, uhm, he sang really edgy and dark songs or something.

Weird. Wouldn't all Drow bards sing dark / edgy songs :smallbiggrin:

Godskook
2010-05-14, 09:33 AM
True, but with in game representation. There aren't any 'sorcerers' per se, but there are individuals that manifested the ability to cast arcane spells naturally, without any study.

Exactly. My point was, though, that as an arcane full-caster, a sorcerer's practical 'use' would be determined almost exactly as if he were a wizard.


What about a female drow? As far as I know, arcane studies are mainly left to the males (who are lower than females). So is a female sorcerer (or any spontacaster) treated the same as a male in this regard?

Not sure about society as a whole, but since studying arcane arts is a 'male' thing, I'd suspect that a female sorceress would bill herself as 'gifted', and 'above the stupid males who have to study to learn arcana'. She'd probably be treated better than a female wizard, but I'm not sure that's saying much.

Tiki Snakes
2010-05-14, 09:35 AM
First; Drow society is very much broken up into houses. This, to me, means that there is plenty of room for varying treatment, depending on the philosophy and the plans of the goal in question.

Second; CE, NE, LE, meh. Drow society is renaissance Italy (ala Assassin's Creed) with Goths.

Drow Misfits can still go far, especially Cha based ones. They should, however, look to Machiavelli. :smallwink:

SpikeFightwicky
2010-05-14, 09:37 AM
Exactly. My point was, though, that as an arcane full-caster, a sorcerer's practical 'use' would be determined almost exactly as if he were a wizard.

Ok. That's what I figured. The anomaly was the female, who's looked down on for studying, but doesn't have any control of sorcery, as you answered next.


Not sure about society as a whole, but since studying arcane arts is a 'male' thing, I'd suspect that a female sorceress would bill herself as 'gifted', and 'above the stupid males who have to study to learn arcana'. She'd probably be treated better than a female wizard, but I'm not sure that's saying much.

Makes sense.

On that note, what about martial study? Is that mainly the purview of males, or is there an equal gender ratio?

Greenish
2010-05-14, 10:03 AM
On that note, what about martial study? Is that mainly the purview of males, or is there an equal gender ratio?It's less prestigious than clergy, so it's the domain of males and low-born females.