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harpy
2010-05-14, 05:28 PM
Being a fan of the central Asian cultures of old, the “horse lords of the east” such as the Scythians, Mongols, and Huns, I've wanted for quite awhile to play an mounted archer build.

Here is my analysis of one to use in Pathfinder Society (thus the level 12 cap):

Dedicated mounted characters tend to need to be small size characters because it is often atypical for campaigns and adventures to be primarily outside where a lot of space allows for large size mounts to easily maneuver. It would be great if there was a small size race that gave an extra feat like humans, but none are in sight so I've just got to suck it up and play a halfling or a gnome.

The gnome in general is stronger than the halfling, they simply get more stuff. However, because of the stats I'm going to be using I'm inclined to play the halfling for the extra bonus to saving throws, to help offset all the dump stating that I'm going to use with this build. Fluffwise, halflings are a little more human and capable of being “barbarian” like so that also helps. A mini-mongol!

With 20 point buy using Halfling, I'm setting on this:

Str 15, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 9

How the character levels breakout works as follows:

Fighter 1 (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot)
Fighter 2 (Precise Shot)
Fighter 3 (Weapon Focus)
Fighter 4 (Weapon Specialization), [+1 Strength]
Fighter 5 (Deadly Aim)
Fighter 6 (Many Shot)
Cavalier 1 (Boon Companion)
Fighter 7 [+1 Dexterity]
Fighter 8 (Improved Critical, Critical Focus),
Fighter 9
Fighter 10 (Mounted Combat, Sickening Critical)
Cavalier 2 [+1 Dexterity]

In terms of combat output, it works out (assuming composite strength bows, Point Blank, Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim) as:

Level 1 +6/+6 to hit, +3 damage
Level 2 +7/+7 to hit, +3 damage
Level 3 +9/+9 to hit, +3 damage
Level 4 +10/+10 to hit, +6 damage
Level 5 +10/+10 to hit, +11 damage
Level 6 +11[x2]/+11/+6 to hit, +11 damage
Level 7 +12[x2]/+12/+7 to hit, +11 damage
Level 8 +12[x2]/+12/+7 to hit, +13 damage
Level 9 +13[x2]/+13/+8 to hit, +13 damage
Level 10 +15[x2]/+15/+10 to hit, +14 damage
Level 11 +16[x2]/+16/+11/+6 to hit, +14 damage
Level 12 +18[x2]/+18/+13/+8 to hit, +14 damage

Now from the above there is the weird little dip into Cavalier. The point here is to take Cavalier for the mount class feature. It functions as Druid animal companion, and with the feat Boon Companion (from Seeker of Secrets), you are able to add 4 levels to the mount. The end result is that you get a 5th level mount.

This is to fix the problem with the fact that as you go up in level as a fighter, your mount stays the same the whole time, never gaining any hit dice and so by the time you hit the mid levels the mount suddenly can get knocked out in a single blow, ruining the whole point of the character.

The cavalier dip isn't a total fix, as know you've got a 5th level mount through the later half of the game, but at 5th level at least it has enough hit points to generally be able to survive one hit. Being an archer character it is less likely that you'll be in the front so that might be enough to make it through the adventure.

The other benefit of a 5th level mount is that it will now be an intelligent mount (if you put it's 4th level attribute into Int) and that will negate the need for handle animal skills and allow the mount to be able to go and deal with complex situations and face creepy unnatural monsters without a lot of fuss.

The 12th level dip back into Cavalier isn't that important. Basically another level of fighter wouldn't yield anything but Armor Training 3, which isn't important to a mounted character. The second level of Cavalier gives another little boost depending on which Order is selected, plus it adds another level to the mount.

It could be asked, why not be a Paladin, Cavalier, or Ranger Archer? With Paladin you have a complicated code of honor that I just don't want to bother with. With the Cavalier the class was built assuming melee combat and so a great deal of the class abilities just don't synergize with archery.

The best alternative is the Ranger Archer, as you could take Boon Companion to get a mount that is scaled to your level. The real problem though is that you're sacrificing the Fighter's Weapon Specialization feat and Weapon Training class feature. You end up losing +4 damage overall because of that. Likewise, what you gain, a much more buff mount, is only really viable as a melee combatant, which doesn't synergize at all with the character concept.

So why go through all of this trouble? The gimmick of the mounted archer is that you can do ranged full attacks while your mount moves. You don't incur any penalties to ranged attacks as long as the mount only takes single move actions, which for the majority of play is perfectly fine. Thus, each round you can make a 40' move with the mount, while also rapid shotting the whole time. The big problem archers tend to have is dealing with cover, as its inevitable someone is going to stand in the way of your line of sight to the target and toss a -4 onto your attack rolls. With a mount moving about adjusting your line of sight, it's far less likely that this is going to be a problem.

This would be in comparison to the human fighter archer build, where for the most part this character needs to just keep making 5' steps to adjust line of sight, or lose a full attack action to take a move action to get a clear shot, or just suck it up and take the -4 and fire past allies heads. I haven't crunched the numbers but that removal of the -4 cover penalty might be enough to bump the DPR up with a halfling mounted archer optimized to deal out damage.

Thoughts?

BobVosh
2010-05-14, 06:06 PM
Find a medium magical beast, use leadership, level him up that way.

Most of my mounted archers are on giant eagles and switch hit when forced below ground. I'm sure there is something decent, if not you can awaken your puppy or whatever you wanted to ride.

If you are goblin you can ride a worg. I love goblin PCs, not everyones cuppa.


The big problem archers tend to have is dealing with cover, as its inevitable someone is going to stand in the way of your line of sight to the target and toss a -4 onto your attack rolls.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#improved-precise-shot
Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment.

Take that, laugh at blur and mirror images. Never worry about cover again, unless they decide to use that "full cover" sillyness.

theos911
2010-05-14, 07:19 PM
Don't forget halfling outrider.CW38 Lots of flavor , fits well with your mounted halfling.

PinkysBrain
2010-05-14, 07:34 PM
You can always go smaller than small, then you can use a flying animal companion. Which makes the ranger a much more attractive option. Permanency and reduce person is of course an option, but it's expensive especially when dispelled. There is a much funnier option ... only problem is, you have to be a smurf.

I'm talking of course about the rod of wonder ... with an average number of tries of 20 you will be reduced 2 size categories for the day. In the mean time you run the chance of summoning rhinos (cast hide from animals and do it away from others), get rained on, create gems (bonus!!!), cast all kinds of spells (target something which you don't mind getting destroyed) and get fooled into thinking something happened which didn't happen for a round (when you get shrunk down always wait an extra round to make sure it really happened). Eventually you are also going to permanently turn blue, green or purple too ... which is where the smurf part comes in.

PS. you don't lose strength from being reduced in size with the rod of wonder (no bonus to dex either though).

Doc Roc
2010-05-14, 07:42 PM
Flight is the best gift you can give yourself, if you are a mounted combatant.

harpy
2010-05-14, 07:58 PM
Unfortunately Pathfinder Society puts a lot of restrictions on what a player can use. No leadership feat, giant eagles, griffons, and you can't awaken any animals, plus older 3.5 material isn't legal for play, such as the halfling outrider.

The Improved Precise Shot feat is great, however you have to wait till 11th level to get it. Since Pathfinder Society has a level cap of 12, you're only really seeing benefit in those final two levels, six modules total. So the trick was really to come up with avoiding cover issues from level 1 on, so that you get the benefit for the life of the character.

harpy
2010-05-14, 08:04 PM
Flight is the best gift you can give yourself, if you are a mounted combatant.

Despite all of the restrictions, you could technically get flight if you dipped into Druid. With the boon companion feat you could get a Dire Bat or Roc as an animal companion that is just strong enough to be able to carry you.

The problem though is that you'd need to be a female gnome so that you could be light enough to be carried, and you'd hardly be able to have any gear on you, basically just in a bikini with a bow and quiver.

The hurdle is that the animal companion needs to only have a light load if it wants to fly, and so you have to really keep the weight down in order to pull that off. It would be easier with the Roc if you could take three levels of druid and then boon companion, as you could then get the Roc to 7th level at it could be large size, which would increase its carrying capacity enough to handle the character and normal gear. But that is quite a hit on BAB, combat feats, and a mount which is large size which can become problematic.

Plus you'd be hit with losing BAB, and with the Wisdom dumped, you'd be losing all the spells that would come with the dip.

Doc Roc
2010-05-14, 09:32 PM
Is there a set of figurines? If so, there's almost certainly one with flight.

PinkysBrain
2010-05-14, 11:24 PM
Only if it's in a chronicle you played in ... Pathfinder Society is "only casters have nice things" squared.

Doc Roc
2010-05-14, 11:39 PM
Only if it's in a chronicle you played in ... Pathfinder Society is "only casters have nice things" squared.

Ugh, that's depressing.