Superman Versus Pun-Pun

[Tokeloshe]

No holds barred, all super powers allowed, Supe's can even call in three friends to help, who wins?

[Bookman]

Pun Pun as Pun Pun is literally invincible and superman couldn't even TOUCH him

[kaairn]

yup, have to go with pun pun on this one ;)

[NEO|Phyte]

Everything superman can do, Pun-pun can do, only better.


/vote Pun-pun

[Genome]

Pun-Pun vs God may be a better matchup.

[Behold_the_Void]

Pun-pun can conceivably gain all of Superman's abilities, without the weakness.

So yeah. Pun-pun.

[CelestialStick]

No holds barred, all super powers allowed, Supe's can even call in three friends to help, who wins?
Apparently I'm the first person to actually read your post. Obviously Superman would call in Batman. Even without inflating Batman's intelligence to deific levels, Batman would be a superior strategist. Actually Bruce Wayne could just buy Habro and rerwite the rules to prevent Pun-Pun in the first place. :D But beyond that, I'd probably go with Fate or someone who can do substantial magic. Then you'd have it all covered: super physicality, great intelligence, wealth and technology, and great magic.

[belboz]

But Batman wouldn't have the time to come up with a strategy. Pun-Pun would just use his "I win" ability to immediately annihilate them both.

Actually, now that Pun-Pun has read this thread (which he has--he's completely omniscient, of course, having divine rank in the tens of millions), I imagine he's already used I Win to place a contingency that will annihilate anyone who ever even *considers* opposing him.

[NEO|Phyte]

But Batman wouldn't have the time to come up with a strategy. Pun-Pun would just use his "I win" ability to immediately annihilate them both.

Actually, now that Pun-Pun has read this thread (which he has--he's completely omniscient, of course, having divine rank in the tens of millions), I imagine he's already used I Win to place a contingency that will annihilate anyone who ever even *considers* opposing him.

doesnt that mean that all past, present, and future DMs just got vaporized out of the space-time continuum?

[Caillach]

Apparently I'm the first person to actually read your post. Obviously Superman would call in Batman. Even without inflating Batman's intelligence to deific levels, Batman would be a superior strategist. Actually Bruce Wayne could just buy Habro and rerwite the rules to prevent Pun-Pun in the first place. :D But beyond that, I'd probably go with Fate or someone who can do substantial magic. Then you'd have it all covered: super physicality, great intelligence, wealth and technology, and great magic.

Darn, you beat me to it! ;D

[Steward]

I'd have to give this to Superman, since Pun-Pun sucks.

[CelestialStick]

Darn, you beat me to it! ;D
Early bird and all that. ;)

[Zeful]

I vote for Batman, who after reading all realavent D&D material on pun-pun sees a subtle but very useful loophole in the ability and smites the fool.

[NEO|Phyte]

I vote for Batman, who after reading all realavent D&D material on pun-pun sees a subtle but very useful loophole in the ability and smites the fool.
you mean the loophole Pun-pun knew batman would find out about and fixed an infinite amount of time before batman found it?

Divine abilities are fun.

[Zeful]

Actually, pun-pun living in the D&D universe, and having been pulled into a transitive plane to prevent home field atvanteges would have no idea of the rules that govern his existence. Batman, however would, having waited and reading the relevent information on pun-pun would easiliy win becuase he had all the answers from square one.

[razmafft1]

Superman. Why? A someone already mentioned, he calls in Batman. Batman points out the inherintly unbalancing nature of Pun-Pun to the DM, perhaps using a large variety of charts and graphs, as well as Academy Award-Winning Special Effects. The DM eliminates the rule that creates the Pun-Pun loophole via Rule 0. FEAR RULE ZERO!!!

[Holy_Knight]

Okay... although I must applaud the recognition of the Prepared Batman Always WinsTM law (and from Celestial Stick, no less! You're coming around! ;D), I nevertheless feel compelled to ask:


Who the hell is Pun-Pun?

[Lord Herman]

Who the hell is Pun-Pun?

An abomination spawned in the infernal pits of the Wizards character optimization boards. It's a level 5 kobold wizard (or a higher-level psion) with unlimited ability scores and stats. He can have every ability in the game, and he has an infinite unlimited amount of divine ranks.

Edit: nothing about Pun-Pun is infinite, just unlimited. His stats are as high as he wants.

[Big_Red_Bird]

This isn't really a contest. PunPun can't lose. Superman can call in Batman, but Pun Pun will just wish him out of existance.

[Holy_Knight]

An abomination spawned in the infernal pits of the Wizards character optimization boards. It's a level 5 kobold wizard (or a higher-level psion) with unlimited ability scores and stats. He can have every ability in the game, and he has an infinite unlimited amount of divine ranks.

Edit: nothing about Pun-Pun is infinite, just unlimited. His stats are as high as he wants.
In that case, I agree with King Steward. Superman wins, because Pun-Pun is stupid.

[CelestialStick]

Okay... although I must applaud the recognition of the Prepared Batman Always WinsTM law (and from Celestial Stick, no less! You're coming around! ;D), I nevertheless feel compelled to ask:

Apparently the rash of not actually reading posts on this thread continues. I said nothing about Batman always winning when prepared. In fact I specifically spoke against the deification of Batman in my post.



Who the hell is Pun-Pun?
Wow! I am surprised you don't know this! I mean everyone who knows anything about D&D knows about Pun-Pun! ;)

[Holy_Knight]

Apparently the rash of not actually reading posts on this thread continues. I said nothing about Batman always winning when prepared. In fact I specifically spoke against the deification of Batman in my post.
Yeah, but you kinda implicitly sort of mostly invoked Prepared Batman Always WinsTM by accident. That's how I'm spinning it, anyway. ;D



Wow! I am surprised you don't know this! I mean everyone who knows anything about D&D knows about Pun-Pun! ;)
Very nice. :)

[Dr._Weird]

Pun-Pun wins. There is no way that Batman can fight a god. There is no "BATMAN ALWAYS WINS LOLROFL!!!!1!!111" rule. He's lost before. Check out the comic where the JLA fights Prometheus. He's like batman, only better. The only thing that stops him is that he didn't expect Catwoman to be there.

[Holy_Knight]

There is no "BATMAN ALWAYS WINS LOLROFL!!!!1!!111" rule.
Apparently, you haven't been reading most of the other "vs." threads around here... ::)

[Were-Sandwich]

Pun-Pun wins. Pun-Pun always wins. The fact that he is simultaneously Mr.T, Vin Diesel, Chuck Norris and the Kool Aid man must say something.

[Steward]

Pun-Pun wins. There is no way that Batman can fight a god. There is no "BATMAN ALWAYS WINS LOLROFL!!!!1!!111" rule. He's lost before. Check out the comic where the JLA fights Prometheus. He's like batman, only better. The only thing that stops him is that he didn't expect Catwoman to be there.

Eh? Whoever said anything about Batman? Superman can annihilate Pun-Pun simply since Pun-Pun is stupid.

[Genome]

Eh? Whoever said anything about Batman? Superman can annihilate Pun-Pun simply since Pun-Pun is stupid.
That's like saying that because everyone else in the world is stupid (or rather, you don't like them), you can overthrow all government systems simultaneously, by yourself, thereby becoming supreme dictator of Earth.

[Dr._Weird]

Apparently, you haven't been reading most of the other "vs." threads around here... ::)

No, I have. That's what sparked that little bit of wisdom. :P

[Holy_Knight]

No, I have. That's what sparked that little bit of wisdom. :P
Then you should have realized I was joking. ;)



That's like saying that because everyone else in the world is stupid (or rather, you don't like them), you can overthrow all government systems simultaneously, by yourself, thereby becoming supreme dictator of Earth.
I'm not sure it's quite like that. It's more analogous to how pretty much no one was upset that Wolverine beat Lobo, because Lobo is such a dumb character.

[Steward]

That's like saying that because everyone else in the world is stupid (or rather, you don't like them), you can overthrow all government systems simultaneously, by yourself, thereby becoming supreme dictator of Earth.

It's about as rational as all of the other arguments for Pun-Pun, especially since most of them rely on Superman and his allies going by D&D rules (which he doesn't have to).

[Kresalak]

As Were-Sandwhich said, Pun-Pun is the Kool-Aid Man. Thos is why he wins. (http://www.applegeeks.com/comic_archive/viewcomic.php?issue=187)

[blackfox]

Pun-Pun would kick Superman's butt. :D

[BelkarsDagger]

Pun-Pun is the physical manifestation of awsomeness, invincibility, shape-shifting, and sucky names. Yes, he would win hands down.

[CelestialStick]

Yeah, but you kinda implicitly sort of mostly invoked Prepared Batman Always WinsTM by accident. That's how I'm spinning it, anyway. ;D

Very nice. :)
Well you got one part right: you are spinning--out of control. :D

[razmafft1]

Okay, two new ideas, both in favor of Supes:

1. Superman destorys the piece of paper that is Pun-Pun, as well as the player's d20!

2. Superman calls in the DM, who smites Pun-Pun without a FORT save, thanks to the big blue bolt o' smiting.

[Brett Wong]

Okay, two new ideas, both in favor of Supes:

1. Superman destorys the piece of paper that is Pun-Pun, as well as the player's d20!

2. Superman calls in the DM, who smites Pun-Pun without a FORT save, thanks to the big blue bolt o' smiting.



... pun pun makes a feat that makes it so that his character sheet is impervius to everything that pun pun him self is... everything..

[Ryuuk]

Couldn't Superman make the world spin backwards and go back in time to stop Pun Pun from coming to life?

[Brett Wong]

pun pun has infinite forsight if superman were to think about it he would insta kill him no save.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm not sure how Pun pun is supposed to work

"A Sarraukh may use this ability to change a minor aspect of the target creature, such as the shape of its head or the color of its scales. It may also choose to make a much more significant alteration, such as converting limbs into tentacles, changing overall body shape (snake into humanoid, for example), or adding or removing an appendage. Any ability score may be decreased to a minimum of 1 or increased to a maximum equal to the Sarrukh's corresponding score. A Sarrukh may also grant an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability or remove one from it."
And there is of course the all important Sarrukh are immune to this effect, so a Sarrukh cannot change himself, not that he would be able to change his ability scores anyway, since the caps for him increasing scores are his own scores.
There's also the whole fact that a character who is polymorphed "gains all the extraordinary special attacks possesed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualites possesed by the new form. The Sarrukh's now famous ability is a supernatural ability, not an extraordinary one. They can't add Divine rank because Divine rank is not a extraordinary, supernatural or spell-like ability, it's more like an ability score that is only possesed by gods.
I didn't read the original Pun Pun thread so I don't now if that's already been loop holed around.

[Gnorosch]

Superman will win by conjuring Gary Gygax who will convert the D&D 3.5 rules to D&D 1 rules and than invoke the GMs prerogrative to remove Pun-Pun from the game for being annoying. And in D&D 1, there was nothing to protect your character from the GMs whim - regardless of your stats.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Batman invokes PHB 2 that contains the new nerfing on polymorph/shapechange/metamorphosis. Pun-Pun loses ALL his abilities-including the ability to gain new abilities and stat increases-and becomes a normal, "standard" version of the creature with the "morph other" ability from serpent kingdoms (forgot its name). Being a CR 9 being he loses to Superman's CR 40 easily.


:P

[NEO|Phyte]

I'm not sure how Pun pun is supposed to work

"A Sarraukh may use this ability to change a minor aspect of the target creature, such as the shape of its head or the color of its scales. It may also choose to make a much more significant alteration, such as converting limbs into tentacles, changing overall body shape (snake into humanoid, for example), or adding or removing an appendage. Any ability score may be decreased to a minimum of 1 or increased to a maximum equal to the Sarrukh's corresponding score. A Sarrukh may also grant an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability or remove one from it."
And there is of course the all important Sarrukh are immune to this effect, so a Sarrukh cannot change himself, not that he would be able to change his ability scores anyway, since the caps for him increasing scores are his own scores.
There's also the whole fact that a character who is polymorphed "gains all the extraordinary special attacks possesed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualites possesed by the new form. The Sarrukh's now famous ability is a supernatural ability, not an extraordinary one. They can't add Divine rank because Divine rank is not a extraordinary, supernatural or spell-like ability, it's more like an ability score that is only possesed by gods.
I didn't read the original Pun Pun thread so I don't now if that's already been loop holed around.
The Sarraukh ability is simply the device used to gain the arbitrary stat increases and the variety of Ex,Su, or Sp abilities needed to finish off the cheese. The stat increases are complex to describe, but they do indeed work. proper explanation can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801), under the Ability Scores heading

Pun-pun isn't a Sarraukh when enacting his cheese, so he isn't immune to it. (He morphs, gains the Su ability by the method noted below, and uses it to bestoy the ability on his familiar/psicrystal/animal companion. He then changes back and has his familiar/psicrystal/animal companion use the ability to bestow the ability back to Pun-pun.

The ability is gained through a feat that allows you to pick a single Su ability from the creature you morph into

Divine rank is done by using a spell (source not listed) to create a copy of a god, then having that copy make him a Proxy, giving him Divine Rank 1. he then proxies off his divine rank to something else and has another godclone proxy him, repeating this N times, then recalling his ranks from the various proxies he made, giving him Divine Rank N

[Gralamin]

ice assassin from frostburn is the spell

[CelestialStick]

One punch from Superman would kill Pun-Pun. Heck, even Spiderman could punch out Pun-Pun, and Batman could beat Pun-Pun even without any preparation time. :D