Fast Healing in feat form?

[Jane_Smith]

Ive been thinking of making a homebrew monsterous feat - mainly for the abberation and shape-changer crowd, that has no requirements except for you being that type, and gives Fast Healing 1 + (1/5th your HD, rounded down), max of 5 by 20th level that doesnt stack with other sources of fast healing except by the epic feat that increases it by 3.

As a dm, in a low-mid level game, would you even consider letting a player have 1-3 points of fast healing if they were changelings, shifters, etc?

[Ashtagon]

Fast healing as a feat is just too good a choice. If available, it would be a no-brainer choice to take it.

[Jane_Smith]

Ya, but at low levels it would be 1 hit point a turn, at higher, 5. Sure its great for out of combat, but it wont save you in combat considering the amount of burst damage some things are capable of. Even at level 1 your talking about a decent 3-11 minimum damage from a npc warrior with a longsword...

My only issue is, im wanting to play a 'regenerator' like changeling. The dm has made it so that Shapecahgners are now a subtype, so im a Abarrant (Shapechanger) now. ALL I can find is stuff that increases natural healing by like, x2, or psionic feats that increase the number of hp/ability points you restore based on your psionic ability score, etc. Thats all fine and dandy, but im taking a very obscure feat that allows me to make minor equipment with my own blood - such as caltrops, a longsword, etc. Issue is? Takes 5 damage to use it. To be able to use this more then once per day until like, level 5-10, i need -some- kinda way of recovering my hit points quicker naturally. Ive looked -everywhere- and i even found feats that grant regeneration, at the cost of your immortal soul and all that crap. The only fast healing templates or feats I can find are LA +4 or more or epic. -sigh-. I would be fine with just 1 fast healing till 20 if need be, but I cant find it in any sources. Surely its not that broken?

[Volthawk]

My only issue is, im wanting to play a 'regenerator' like changeling. The dm has made it so that Shapecahgners are now a subtype, so im a Abarrant (Shapechanger) now.

:smallconfused: Shapechanger is already a subtype. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#shapechangerSubtype)

[Eurus]

I'm not entirely sure why free out-of-combat healing is considered such a powerful thing... all it means is you save some cash on wands of Lesser Vigor. And Fast Healing of a few points per round isn't likely to do much during combat, only after it.

[Ashtagon]

Fast healing 1 basically means you'll never enter a combat at less than full hp. That's really quite a power boost, since it makes a mockery of any kind of attrition-based series of encounters. For a L3 fighter, a kobold is nothing, but ten kobolds one after the other with a ten minute break between each fight will almost certainly kill him. But give him fast healing 1, and he could deal with that kind of encounter all day and not raise a sweat.

Fast healing 2-5 aren't really all that much of a boost over fast healing 1 though.

[Eurus]

Fast healing 1 basically means you'll never enter a combat at less than full hp. That's really quite a power boost, since it makes a mockery of any kind of attrition-based series of encounters. For a L3 fighter, a kobold is nothing, but ten kobolds one after the other with a ten minute break between each fight will almost certainly kill him. But give him fast healing 1, and he could deal with that kind of encounter all day and not raise a sweat.

Fast healing 2-5 aren't really all that much of a boost over fast healing 1 though.

Yeah, but like I said, a wand does the same thing for a fairly reasonable price. Unless you're fighting so many encounters that you'll actually run out of wands, but that's a lot...

[Jane_Smith]

Fast healing 1 basically means you'll never enter a combat at less than full hp. That's really quite a power boost, since it makes a mockery of any kind of attrition-based series of encounters. For a L3 fighter, a kobold is nothing, but ten kobolds one after the other with a ten minute break between each fight will almost certainly kill him. But give him fast healing 1, and he could deal with that kind of encounter all day and not raise a sweat.

Ya, cause dm's AND player's love to prolong the horrid combat phase and strech it out all day. :smallamused:

[Ashtagon]

Ya, cause dm's AND player's love to prolong the horrid combat phase and strech it out all day. :smallamused:

I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not.

In any case, surviving a war of attrition has been a plot point in more than one adventure, and fast healing destroys that.

It's your game, so whatever you do is cool. Just make sure everyone is aware of the consequences.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

I would consider it, but the prerequisites would have to be very steep. Possibly it could come in a limited form, such as the Dragon Shaman's healing aura (which, interestingly enough, affects the whole party and is still workable, on paper at least.)

Unfortunately, I can't make it depend on the shapechanger subtype, because Changelings from Eberron would qualify for it, as would Shifters. They're LA +0, and giving access to such a powerful ability would cause problems.

But, if we just say, "you're tough and recover blood quickly," that should work.

Fast Healer
Your lifelong exposure to healing magic lets you recover very quickly from blood loss and minor injuries.
Prerequisites: Toughness, Endurance, Constitution 15
Benefit: As a free action, you can take 1 point of damage to gain fast healing 1 for 5 rounds.
The damage caused by this feat.is treated as nonlethal damage, but it can only be healed after 8 hours of rest. Magical healing and any other type of healing cannot heal this damage. This damage cannot be prevented or redirected, you cannot use temporary hit points for this feat. If the damage is prevented or redirected in any way, you gain no benefit from this feat.

Improved Fast Healer
Prerequisites: Fast Healer
Benefit: When you use fast healer, you may spend 2 hit points to gain fast healing 2.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, you may spend another hit point to increase your fast healing by 1.


Another way to do it would be this:

Regenerator
Your lifelong exposure to healing magic lets you recover very quickly from blood loss and minor injuries.
Prerequisites: Toughness, Endurance, Constitution 15
Benefit: As long as lethal damage puts you at half your normal hit point total or lower, you gain fast healing 1. When you have more than half your normal hit point total, you gain no benefit from this feat.
Starting at level 5 and every 5th level thereafter, your fast healing improves by 1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
Whenever your hit point total is changed by a Constitution bonus, a Constitution penalty, Constitution damage, temporary Hit Dice, or level drain, use that new hit point total. If you have temporary hit points, ignore them.

This one is modeled after the dragon shaman's cool healing aura ability.

[Ashtagon]

I'd be cool with fast healing 1 as a feat with the following prerequisites and limitations: aberration or shapechanger type, Constitution 15+, only works while at 50% or less of full hp.

[Jair Barik]

There is already a fast healing feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#fastHealing) in fact it is available in the srd. Fast healing is a powerful ability

If you want to look at how fast healing can be a legitimate character quality perhaps take a gander at the half-Vampire template. Its similar to what Thomar is suggesting.

[shadowedsoul]

I don't really see this as that broken if you make it a first level only feat or give it a prereq of toughness or something. There'a already a feat out there that gives you regeneration 1, granted it makes you fatigued while you're in sunlight, but regeneration is way more powerful than fast healing.

[Mulletmanalive]

Realms of Chaos proposed the Vile feat Bedeviled Skin some years ago which worked by rendering you immune to healing by both Positive and Negative energy (though you gain no specific vulnerability to either) and granted Fast Healing 1 as an Extraordinary ability.

Ask your GM about using this as a Monstrous feat, perhaps? It gives with one hand and kicks you solidly in the nuts with the other with the denial of combat healing [sod that it's suboptimal (i feel dirty now) in combat healing can be a literal life-saver].

[Jair Barik]

Hmmmm don't think you can kick somebody with a hand...

I believe two of the main issues with getting fast healing at no cost at a low level are...

1-Straight off the bat you are immune to dying from being dropped into the negatives until -11 (unless fast healing works differently to how I remember)

2-At low levels most danger comes from weak enemies slowly wearing you down or traps nearly one shotting you unless you can get healed in time. Fast healing makes both these relatively redundant. Instead of searching for traps your faster healer could generally walk ahead of everyone get it, wait till hes back to full health and then move on to the next trap.

[Mulletmanalive]

Hmmmm don't think you can kick somebody with a hand...

I actually spotted that before i clicked post but left it there in the hope that there would be a funny response.

The usual thing that gets objected to with fast healing is that you start every encounter fresh. Fast Healing doesn't function when you're below 0 hp, so that's a minor issue, though you might stablise automatically.

Starting every encounter fresh but being immune to healing, on the other hand, is an entirely different trade off.

I tended to find the biggest danger at low levels in 3.5 was the fact that almost everything non-tribal at those levels seems to have poison and our saves sucked...and fast healing doesn't help with that.

[Lysander]

What about imposing a limitation on it? One or more of these might balance the feat:

*Setting a maximum number of hitpoints it can restore in one day before it stops functioning.
*Making it a temporary buff with limited uses like a barbarian's rage.
*Instead of making it fast healing, make it the ability to restore a certain number of hitpoints a day the way a monk can.
*Slowing it down, so its a constant regain of a small number of hit points each hour rather than each round.
*Only letting the ability function while resting and taking no other action.
*Giving it a price, for example making it fatigue them, or cause ability damage to strength or dexterity each time the skill is used.
*Giving it a cool down period so it only function once every couple of rounds.
*Making it only grant temporary hitpoints rather than actually healing them.

[Ashtagon]

What about imposing a limitation on it? One or more of these might balance the feat:

*Setting a maximum number of hitpoints it can restore in one day before it stops functioning.

This would work.

*Making it a temporary buff with limited uses like a barbarian's rage.

This too.

*Instead of making it fast healing, make it the ability to restore a certain number of hitpoints a day the way a monk can.

And this. But in each case, the limitations described aren't really fitting the theme of "natural healing sped up". Nothing wrong with that of course, but it does mean the feat would need re-fluffing.

*Slowing it down, so its a constant regain of a small number of hit points each hour rather than each round.

Each hour basically makes it useless. Unless the party sets up camp early, triggering the 15-minute workday.

*Only letting the ability function while resting and taking no other action.

Same issue. Once the combat ends, the party will just rest as long as is necessary.

*Giving it a price, for example making it fatigue them, or cause ability damage to strength or dexterity each time the skill is used.

This could work as a way to balance the ability. But again, re-fluffing will be needed due to the voluntary way it is activated.

*Giving it a cool down period so it only function once every couple of rounds.

15-minute workday again. The party will simply rest until he is recovered.

*Making it only grant temporary hitpoints rather than actually healing them.

Your actual hit points plus a constantly replenishing supply of temporary hit points is still as good as starting each fight at full hp.

[Lysander]

Some of my ideas, like the temporary healing, would only work in combination with something else. For example temporary healing plus temporary rage-like buff would limit the ability quite a bit.

The other ones like limiting it to a small number of hit points per hour would just serve to replenish some hp between fights. If the party has the luxury of resting all day so one person can regain a handful of hp, the DM needs to provide more time based challenges.

[lsfreak]

People are vastly, VASTLY overestimating the cost of unlimited healing. You get it for a feat if you have a dread necromancer in the party (level 1), for free at 5th level if you have a binder in the party, and for a piddly 1gp37sp for everyone else in the form of wands of lesser vigor (550healing, 750gp). Not to mention any of a dozen other ways to get it for low-cost.

I'd make fast healing 1 an unlimited feat from first level, or scaling from 3-6th. In time-constrained situations, as endurance fighting often is, spending 10 minutes to sit around healing yourself to full isn't an option. And in more normal situations, going into an encounter on anything less than full health is suicide.

Personally, I wouldn't waste something as precious as a feat on something as easily-attainable as unlimited healing.

[Ralasha]

Make it a spell touched feat. So that when you are effecting by an Abjuration (Healing) spell you gain fast healing equal to 1/5 your hit dice (Minimum 1) for a short amount of time. Say, a number of rounds equal to 1+Con Mod, minimum 1.

[Volthawk]

Make it a spell touched feat. So that when you are effecting by an Abjuration (Healing) spell you gain fast healing equal to 1/5 your hit dice (Minimum 1) for a short amount of time. Say, a number of rounds equal to 1+Con Mod, minimum 1.

It's conjuration, not abjuration.

[Ralasha]

And if I actually cared, I would probably have gotten it right.

[Flickerdart]

Just give it crappy prerequisites. 13+ CON, Toughness and Endurance are about right - for the cost of Fast Healing 1 you could have Power Attack, Improved Bullrush and Shocktrooper.

[Jota]

People are vastly, VASTLY overestimating the cost of unlimited healing. You get it for a feat if you have a dread necromancer in the party (level 1), for free at 5th level if you have a binder in the party, and for a piddly 1gp37sp for everyone else in the form of wands of lesser vigor (550healing, 750gp). Not to mention any of a dozen other ways to get it for low-cost.

I'd make fast healing 1 an unlimited feat from first level, or scaling from 3-6th. In time-constrained situations, as endurance fighting often is, spending 10 minutes to sit around healing yourself to full isn't an option. And in more normal situations, going into an encounter on anything less than full health is suicide.

Personally, I wouldn't waste something as precious as a feat on something as easily-attainable as unlimited healing.

+1.

Fast healing in the quantities being bandied about here really is not worth that much in combat, but neither is it especially valuable out-of-combat (at least assuming a party -- if assuming a solo character it has increased value to everyone without UMD, and you might be investing cross-class ranks in that anyway) given the aforementioned wands of lessor vigor. Add in the opportunity cost of spending a feat on it and such a feat wouldn't be particularly good in my opinion unless the quantity of the healing was enough to make a noticeable difference in combat.

What a noticeable difference is probably depends on your level of play (not character level, but inherent class power -- if you're hit with any number of save-or-suck spells and you fail your save, there really isn't much anything other than an exorbitant amount of fast healing is going to do for you, and even that is questionable. If you're running around trading stabs to the face, then it is a much simpler process to assess the value of fast healing.

[Jane_Smith]

Well, the character I had in mind for this was a changeling chameleon, using someone's base-classed version of the chameleon from this very forum. Basically, a little bit of everything, master of nothing? so id say a good teir 3 level of play for myself.

I will be grouped with a gargoyal (using savage species progression), fey-touched elf sorceress (fey heritage), a human psion (nomad), and a insane half-elf alchemist (from a pathfinder - bit of a artifcer with potions, acid bombs, etc, they can make in a matter of seconds). So, overal, a 2 or 3, a 4, a 4, and a 4 on power level. My character is likely the weakest in combat situations, and will mostly be for social/stealth and/or filling in as healer. -_- In which case, id love fast healing even more so I can avoid having to waste spells on myself out of combat, my spells per day will be low enough.

My dm has approved the use of this feat - but then again he is a open-minded/casual dm. I dunno what others would think of it. (Its also worth mentioning he doesnt beleive in 'endurance' fights - by tossing several weak fights against us over a course of long time. He said, when combat comes up, every time WILL be a life or death match, and fights will remain reletively intense threwout the campaign, even if we only see 1 fight for an entire day.)

Rapid Healing (Monsterous)
You were born with a strange quirk - your constantly shifting body can quickly reseal wounds and stimulate your healing process.
Prerequisites: Aberration or Shapechanger, character level 1st.
Benefit: You gain fast healing at a rate of 1 hit point each round. For every 5 character levels you possess, your fast healing increases by 1, to a maximum of 5 by 20th level. You now have a 25% chance to stablize when below 0 hit points.
Special: This fast healing does not stack with other sources of fast healing, such as that gained by your race, class, items or spells.

This effectively makes lesser vigor, and later vigor, completely useless to you as your own fast healing counters it, and you cant stack it by any means.

[paddyfool]

Given that you've spent another feat on being able to do something that you can pretty much do with a cheap magic item (Shapesand, Sandstorm), or do rather better-than with a more expensive magic item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments), I'd definitely allow it.

[Melayl]

You could do what I did with my Beast Warrior class, and give them a more limited Fast Healing. Allow it to only heal lethal to non-lethal (not to full). You don't start off every combat at full normal hit points (since non-lethal damage is still damage), but it can still be a lifesaver.

[Flickerdart]

Given that you've spent another feat on being able to do something that you can pretty much do with a cheap magic item (Shapesand, Sandstorm), or do rather better-than with a more expensive magic item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments), I'd definitely allow it.
How are you using Shapesand or Pigments to heal?

[Jane_Smith]

Id like to know that to. o.o

[Ralasha]

I believe they were referring to things such as the pariapt of wound closure, and Restorative Ointment.

[For Valor]

Oh, boy... Fast Healing 1 at level 1 is pretty damn good, but Fast Healing 5 at level 5 is pretty terrible... And for those people who suggested prerequisites, well, that's a terrible idea. People who don't have Constitution Mods of +1 will want Fast Healing too... Also, it shouldn't be a monstrous feat, since just about anybody should be attuned to magic enough that they gain fast healing. I mean... Sorcerers...

Fast Healing
Prerequisites: None. Don't worry 'bout it.

Benefit: You gain Fast Healing equal to your level -2, with a minimum of 0 (effectively a level cap of 3, but you could take this early if you wanted to save your Level 3 feat for something you needed to build up to).

Special: You wish you could take this feat multiple times, but you can't. Piss off.


.... that works out pretty well. A decent tank will hardly notice this at level 20, but it's pretty worthwile for someone weak, OR somebody low on health. At third level, if you don't have someone with a CLW wand, then your party would be screwed anyway.

[Ralasha]

Not true, we tend to use Healing Belts.

[paddyfool]

How are you using Shapesand or Pigments to heal?

I was referring to the feat where she's using her blood to make items, the cost of which in hit points being the source of the original problem this other feat is trying to solve.

[Jane_Smith]

Ya, Bloodcraft. 1d6 damage, acts as a minor creation, though I can make anything within the means of the spell without a craft check. The most obvious of its uses is rope/grappling hook, weapons, shield, climbing gear, or the like. Though im sure it would have a few million others. :P

[Ashtagon]

There is already a feat called Faster Healing, in Complete Warrior.

It has a prereq of Fort save bonus +5, and roughly doubles your natural healing rate. So it isn't going to be useful if all your fights are on the same day.

tbh, that feat is weaksauce. May be worth giving to some martial classes for free, but other than that, not interesting.

[Roderick_BR]

There's also the Combat Form feats Combat Focus and Combat Vigor (2 feats, Vigor can be taken at 9th level) that grants fast healing 2 in combat. All day healing out of combat at lower level may be a bit strong, even if it's only for aberrations and the likes.

[For Valor]

Not true, we tend to use Healing Belts.

Healing Belts are nice for their 4d8 HP (18 HP! Woot!), though the whole 1/day thing kills me...

[lsfreak]

Healing Belts are nice for their 4d8 HP (18 HP! Woot!), though the whole 1/day thing kills me...

6d8 if you don't use all the charges at once. There's also nothing but DM fiat stopping you from picking up 10 of them, though you'd be better off in the short run at least with more wands of lesser vigor.