Colourblindness

[Serpentine]

Talk about it generally, if you want, but mostly I want to just ask this question: How would one go about convincing someone with colourblindness that orange and green are not similar colours?
Some context: when I mused out loud about what sort of colourblindness he had, he said (as near to quote as I can remember): "See, it's only colours that are close to each other I can't tell apart. Like orange and green, purple and blue, pink and red" (also, though he didn't list it, pink and blue).
I discovered his confusion over orange and green when I had a dinner including some chopped carrot, peas, brussel sprouts and beans, and he informed me that there was "far too much orange on that plate". To which I responded, ":smallconfused: ...what colour do you think peas are?", and later, "why do you think they say "eat your greens"? :smallconfused:"

He refuses to believe me when I say that green and orange are about as different as two colours can be. Any ideas on how I could convince him? While we're at it, got any fun facts on the sort of colour blindness he has?

[Ashen Lilies]

Tell him that your powers of color perception are superior, and that makes you automatically right. :smalltongue:

Really, I don't think there's much you can say, except that he should trust your judgement on it. Maybe dig out a color wheel and show how green and orange are on opposite sides.

[thubby]

sounds like he has issues with red. red-green color-blindness is the most common
there are tests for this online. just google "color blind test"

[Serpentine]

I know, but... he can recognise red okay. Probably right, though.

[Reinboom]

Orange is closer to green than red is. On a color wheel, they are very close to each other.

With that, how does he view yellows?

http://realcolorwheel.com/colorwheel/Real_Color_Wheel_475.jpg

Using that, you could compare between 4 and 32.


It's important to note that everyone sees colors (yes, even you) differently between each other. The only thing that tends to stay true is different types of contrast, which colors overpower which, and "temperature" (though, even these are not consistent.)
With colorblindness, you are taking pieces of that color wheel out entirely and closing the gap. Sort of.
You could also be shifting it entirely.

[Serpentine]

That's a snazzy colour wheel, thanks. Seems like there's a bit of a lack in the yellow part, though... I'll show it to him, anyway, see what we figure out.

I know about that "everyone sees differently" thing, too. I remember pondering it back in high school, that the genetics and cells and right down to the atomic structure is different in everyone, and therefore everything everyone sees will be slightly different. I mentioned it to Dr Mum, and she suggested you might be able to detect that sort of thing in looking at photos of yourself.

[Krade]

It probably shouldn't even be called colorblind unless it's completely black, white and shades of gray. But then we'd have to come up with a new name for it...

[Reinboom]

That's a snazzy colour wheel, thanks. Seems like there's a bit of a lack in the yellow part, though... I'll show it to him, anyway, see what we figure out.

I know about that "everyone sees differently" thing, too. I remember pondering it back in high school, that the genetics and cells and right down to the atomic structure is different in everyone, and therefore everything everyone sees will be slightly different. I mentioned it to Dr Mum, and she suggested you might be able to detect that sort of thing in looking at photos of yourself.

The easiest methods I know of (informed by one of my art professors from uni) for contrasting the "supposed to be" with "actually is" is by looking directly at a pure white light with a white (though, not one powerful enough to injure the eye). With a supposed-to-be-white background behind it.

For me, it revealed that I see everything shifted slightly towards blue hues.


That only shows what a person's eyes gravitate towards however. Useless for figuring out what sorts of colorblindness someone has. :smalltongue:


It probably shouldn't even be called colorblind unless it's completely black, white and shades of gray. But then we'd have to come up with a new name for it...

Blind is a very dynamic word, I see it fine as it is. But I might be blind to the proper definitions here.

[Asta Kask]

Take a transparent piece of green plastic and put in front of his eyes. Then have him look at the plate.

[Serpentine]

It probably shouldn't even be called colorblind unless it's completely black, white and shades of gray. But then we'd have to come up with a new name for it...You can't see a particular part of the colour spectrum properly. It's "particular colour blindness", rather than "all colour blindness".

[Tyrandar]

Smack him until he believes you? :smalltongue:

[thubby]

Take a transparent piece of green plastic and put in front of his eyes. Then have him look at the plate.

that would just make it more orange i would think...

[Johel]

Step 1
Take an orange and a cucumber.
Now go to your friend.
"-This is orange. This is green."

Step 2
Go with him to another person, anyone but another colorblind.
Hand him the orange.
"-What color is this ?"
Hand him the cucumber.
"-What color is this ?"
Show him both
"-Are these colors similar ?"
While he will look at you, wondering how stupid/crazy you are, he will still give you a straight answer, if only to prove himself HE is not crazy.

Repeat step 2 until your friend, after receiving 20 or 30 times the same answers, agree with you that orange and green are really different colors, not mere shades of a similar color.

[Recaiden]

Well, they are a little bit similar.
And orange is yellow and red/magenta, while green is yellow and blue/cyan
So there's a yellow similarity.
And they're not too far apart in wavelength.

On a different subject, is it odd that my eyes each see slightly different colors, one tinted slightly reddish and one slightly bluish?

[Reinboom]

On a different subject, is it odd that my eyes each see slightly different colors, one tinted slightly reddish and one slightly bluish?

No .

[Szilard]

On a different subject, is it odd that my eyes each see slightly different colors, one tinted slightly reddish and one slightly bluish?

So that means you have 3D glasses built in. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Loss]

Step 1
Take an orange and a cucumber.
Now go to your friend.
"-This is orange. This is green."

Step 2
Go with him to another person, anyone but another colorblind.
Hand him the orange.
"-What color is this ?"
Hand him the cucumber.
"-What color is this ?"
Show him both
"-Are these colors similar ?"
While he will look at you, wondering how stupid/crazy you are, he will still give you a straight answer, if only to prove himself HE is not crazy.

Repeat step 2 until your friend, after receiving 20 or 30 times the same answers, agree with you that orange and green are really different colors, not mere shades of a similar color.

I agree with This.

[Johel]

Well, they are a little bit similar.
And orange is yellow and red/magenta, while green is yellow and blue/cyan
So there's a yellow similarity.
And they're not too far apart in wavelength.

On a different subject, is it odd that my eyes each see slightly different colors, one tinted slightly reddish and one slightly bluish?
*poke the one which see reddish out*
"-Better ?"

More seriously, it's normal.
I notice that too, especially in the morning during the summer.

The more blueish color is from the eye that received the less light input. The pupil is still wide open and you get more light than you should, which make things look blue-white.

The other eye has been exposed to the light sooner and the pupil has already narrowed. Things appears darker, with a teint of red but it's only in contrast with the other eye.

After a few moment looking in the same direction with both eyes open, the difference should disappear, as both pupils will have the same diameter.

If you want to make a test :

Face your computer screen, preferably with a white image.
Now stare to left, away from the screen but keep your computer screen in sight, at the extreme right of your visual angle.
Hide your left eye.
Wait for, say 2 minutes, then switch off the light of the room and look back at your screen with both eyes.
You should get the impression that the right eye is blind.


It works best at night, of course.

[Trog]

I have a friend who is colorblind and he sees everything mainly as green or as purple. He claims that it is harder to determine colors when they are in close proximity.

I see no problem with your friend saying orange and green are close to one another since, say, tigers are orange and seem to blend in with their green environments well since their prey, perhaps, sees colors as he does? Or at least that's how I assume it works. I dunno, I see 'em as orange and green so the magic is sort of lost on me.

Chances are he's able to hide his color-blindness fairly easily. Hand him and orange and ask him what color it is and he'll likely say "orange" because... well... even if you're color blind everyone knows what color an orange is supposed to be. :smalltongue:

Go get paint sample chips from your local hardware store and test him with those? Though if both you and he know he's color blind I... don't really see the point of all this.

Unless he doesn't believe that he's actually color blind. In which case google a few of those color blindness tests and try and convince him that way?

WAIT! I HAVE IT!
Which of these smileys are orange?
:yuk::annoyed::wink::biggrin:

[Isak]

Depending on the shades and all that... Orange and Green could be fairly similar.

Me? I was thought Orange was a lighter shade of Pink... It was only once in a very specific case... Very bright Florida sun shining down on a bus.

I'm supposedly Red colorblind, but... Red is a color I see very well. One of my favorites, in fact. Colors that have red IN them (Orange, Pink, etc) get me once in a while though.

[Zanaril]

The easiest methods I know of (informed by one of my art professors from uni) for contrasting the "supposed to be" with "actually is" is by looking directly at a pure white light with a white (though, not one powerful enough to injure the eye). With a supposed-to-be-white background behind it.

For me, it revealed that I see everything shifted slightly towards blue hues.

Hmm. Everything out of my left eye is slightly red, and everything out of my right eye is slightly blue. :smallconfused:

[Lycar]

On a related note, there is this (http://colorfilter.wickline.org/) site that could help you.

Just run that nice colour wheel from post #5 through the filters and you get an idea about how your friend percieves colours.

Lycar

[Recaiden]

*poke the one which see reddish out*
"-Better ?"

More seriously, it's normal.
I notice that too, especially in the morning during the summer.

The more blueish color is from the eye that received the less light input. The pupil is still wide open and you get more light than you should, which make things look blue-white.

The other eye has been exposed to the light sooner and the pupil has already narrowed. Things appears darker, with a teint of red but it's only in contrast with the other eye.

After a few moment looking in the same direction with both eyes open, the difference should disappear, as both pupils will have the same diameter.


No. I prefer the red eye for color, actually. But it has worse distance vision by far.

And it doesn't go away with time, or at different angles, so far as I can tell.

[wxdruid]

One of my friends at work only sees in greys, white and black. They had to adjust the radar colors so she could see what was going on, otherwise it all looked the same to her. When she looks at enhanced (colorized) satellite pictures of clouds, she only sees the greys, white and black and it's really hard to see any kind of detail.

[Serpentine]

Though if both you and he know he's color blind I... don't really see the point of all this.We do both know it. He just won't believe me when I say that orange and green are very different :smalltongue: And we're not talking about the brownish ends of each of the colours. We're talking about this:

http://img.21food.com/userimages/dezhifoods/dezhifoods$72993114.jpg

and this:

http://img.21food.com/userimages/pw/pwfruits$1225144229.jpg

edit: Just confirmed, to check I wasn't telling a lie.
"Hey, do these look similar to you?"
"Yeah, pretty similar."

[Krade]

Here I thought I was weird for having my eyes tinted slightly differently. It's mostly obvious after I've been dozing in a lighted room since my left eye stays open when I sleep (annoying birth defect). Everything is slightly bluish (and blurry) in it. While my right eye is more or less perfect. The weird thing is, sleeping with it open didn't start to actually bug me until I was in high school. I have no explanation for this.

[Lev]

Put them on photoshop and hit control+i

[742]

I see no problem with your friend saying orange and green are close to one another since, say, tigers are orange and seem to blend in with their green environments well since their prey, perhaps, sees colors as he does?

thats our solution! get your friend eaten by a tiger; kitties solve everything in such wonderfully efficient ways.

[Emperor Ing]

Colored and labeled diagrams never fail.
http://www.sacred-geometry.com/Sacred-Geometry/visible_spectrum.jpg

Point out how there's a whole color in between Orange and Green.

[Jimorian]

Colored and labeled diagrams never fail.
http://www.sacred-geometry.com/Sacred-Geometry/visible_spectrum.jpg

Point out how there's a whole color in between Orange and Green.

The heck? It's ROY G. BIV. That spectral wheel is wrong. And what the heck is negative green? :smallconfused:

[dehro]

he will never believe through observation alone if he is opposed to being convinced in the first place.
you should use other animal's color blindness as an argument. confront him with the fact that he must know (or accept because research done points that way, in case he didn't know) that certain animals only see certain colours...and that this depends on one or the other particular physical configuration of the eye (didn't google it, so I can't remember exactly what the name is of those bits that allow us to perceive different colours)..
once he accepts this, he should read up on the fact that it is a known condition accepted by science that some of us are in similar condition, i.e. lacking the instruments to perceive certain colours or the difference amongst them.
then, the same way he knows that the animals you mentioned get it wrong (after all he knows by experience that there are certain colours that animals may not see but he knows exist)..he should accept that it's possible that he too may not be seeing colours that other people without his "limitation" do see.
if that doesn't work, have him go out with 2 different bits of colour sample and ask around... he'll soon find that everybody else can tell the colours apart even when he sees them similar
ever considered he might just be saying that so that he doesn't have to stop at traffic lights? :D

[Fri]

The heck? It's ROY G. BIV. That spectral wheel is wrong. And what the heck is negative green? :smallconfused:

Yeah *facepalm*

And the point of infrared and ultraviolet is you can't see them because they're below and above the ability of our eyes to see color. That's why they called it infra red (because red is the color with the lowest... ugh, dunno whaddya call it in english. Wave something. And violet got the highest/farthest wavesomething.)

[Quincunx]

Frequency. (No, we don't have a sensible language where wave-related descriptive terms all start with "wave-".)

[Serpentine]

Dehro: He knows it's colourblindness, he knows what colourblindness is, he knows it means he can't tell the difference between certain colours, etc. He just won't believe (half-kiddingly sort of) that the colours he can't tell apart are normally very different.

[Toastkart]

It probably shouldn't even be called colorblind unless it's completely black, white and shades of gray. But then we'd have to come up with a new name for it...

That would be achromotopsia or colour agnosia Or sometimes even dyschromotopsia.

There are all sorts of causes and conditions that would result in those kinds of symptoms, from congenital effects to brain damage.

[Zen Monkey]

I'm colorblind as well, can't detect the absence or presence of red with other colors (blue/purple, yellow/orange, etc). It's one thing when people are curious and ask a couple of questions. However, I've worked in the same place for five years now and the same people still come up and ask things like "what color does this look like?" and it's to the point that I just want to smack them now. It gets old fast. I don't keep asking the guy in the wheelchair if he could outrun me, or ask the deaf guy what his favorite music is.

For the OP, 'similar' colors means things that appear similar after his particular vision problem. So, to him, orange and green may look the same. Don't ask him what color they 'look like' because the question makes no sense to him. On the other hand, he has minor superpowers like better night vision (most likely, depends on his particular variety) and the fact that camoflage won't work on him.

Fun fact: the military used to look for colorblind people to be on watch or examine aerial photographs. Apparently these people are more trained by their experience to pick out shapes than colors, so camoflage wouldn't be as effective and they were similarly more adept at spotting shapes in the dark. These days, though, it's probably made obsolete by better technology.

[Serpentine]

Yeah, I annoy him. I'm his girlfriend, it's my job :smallwink: :smalltongue: But really, I'm mostly just curious about how the world must look to him. I would almost pay to have him see colour normally, just for five minutes...
...and the fact that camoflage won't work on him.Oooo, didn't know that. Why not?

[Frozen_Feet]

Camouflage relies on different shades of colour to break shape of the hider and blend him to the surroundings - for a colorblind person, all the shades might look the same, so the first part won't happen, and the shades he does see might have different contrast to the surrounding environment, making the hider easier to spot.

[Pyrian]

That makes no sense, it should just mean that camo will still work even if it's bright orange. Colorblindness gives you fewer methods to visually distinguish, not more, and no modern camo is mono'd out even by greyscale.
Frequency. (No, we don't have a sensible language where wave-related descriptive terms all start with "wave-".)..."Wavelength". :smallconfused:

[Zen Monkey]

Here's something fun for the curious, showing how things might look:

http://critiquewall.com/2007/12/10/blindness?page=1

From what I have read about the camoflage thing, the difference is that most people look for fields of color to distinguish objects, but the colorblind person needs to look for shapes and lines. If the trees, leaves, and ground are all just varying shades of the same 'color,' then the person learns over time to look for other cues besides color to distinguish the objects. I think it's a learned behavior (learned from necessity) similar to the way that someone with one eye can learn to drive well enough by taking different cues regarding depth, but someone who just injured an eye today and got a temporary patch would probably have more trouble.

[dehro]

Dehro: He knows it's colourblindness, he knows what colourblindness is, he knows it means he can't tell the difference between certain colours, etc. He just won't believe (half-kiddingly sort of) that the colours he can't tell apart are normally very different.
oh..well...that's different..
he's just pulling your leg...that's HIS job :smallwink: