Pathfinder: Illusion Questions

[Xerit]

Just started a campaign with a new group and having tons of fun using illusions. My DM is pretty cool about rulings on stuff but illusions and when people get a save vs them is causing some difference of opinion.

So my questions:

1. If a character succeeds in a spellcraft check to identify that I am casting an illusion spell does that affect their ability to save against the spell? (+/-, and or bypassing the "must interact" clause)

2. Whats the rule on sound based, or sound included illusions and interaction? Is just hearing the sound enough to give you a save or do you have to actively study it somehow?

3. If I inform my party that the wall of stone I've just conjured is an illusion, do they also have to pass a save (presumably with some bonus because they are being told its fake)?

Probably more, but those came up a few times over the course of a single "dungeon" so I'm curious on the generally accepted rulings.

Thanks in advance!

[ScionoftheVoid]

1. If a character succeeds in a spellcraft check to identify that I am casting an illusion spell does that affect their ability to save against the spell? (+/-, and or bypassing the "must interact" clause)

2. Whats the rule on sound based, or sound included illusions and interaction? Is just hearing the sound enough to give you a save or do you have to actively study it somehow?

3. If I inform my party that the wall of stone I've just conjured is an illusion, do they also have to pass a save (presumably with some bonus because they are being told its fake)?

1. I'd say it bypassed the "must interact" thing, probably not with a bonus though.

2. I think that if a sound seems out-of-place you'd get a save, otherwise you'd need to focus on it (e.g. to realise there is nothing you can see to make the noise), probably as a move or free action.

3. It allows them a save with a +4.

Apart from 3., I don't think that there are actual rules for these. The above answers are my reactions (again, apart from 3., which I just checked in the PHBEdit: Forgot it was Pathfinder, it should still apply) and should be taken with the knowledge that I tend to make rulings that improve the power things if at all sensible.

[mucat]

Well, in question #3, as long as your allies trust your ord they will know the illusion is fakem and can take action accordingly. But I would say that if they actually want to perceive it as an illusion -- to see through the wall of stone. for example -- then they will have to make a save. I would give them a +2 circumstance bonus, myself, but that's a judgment call, not a written rule.

Case #1 would be similar. An enemy who knows you cast an illusion spell will strongly suspect that the wall is an illusion, and can take action accordingly. But again, he would need a save, possibly with a circumstance bonus, to actually perceive it as such.

As for question #2 -- I have no idea how the RAW would address this issue. Myself, I ould say that it the sound is complicated and/or hard to duplicate, the listeners should get an immediate save to see if they notice any flaw in it. If the sound is simple and easy to replicate, I wouldn't give them a save just for hearing it.

Another possibility is to make the caster succeed on a Spellcraft and/or Perform (Illusion) check to get the sound perfect, with the DC increasing with the complexity of the sound. If the check fails, then listeners get a save (with a circumstance bonus if the check failed badly.)

EDIT: Ninja'd by someone with a better knowledge of the rules...

[Kaiyanwang]

2. Whats the rule on sound based, or sound included illusions and interaction? Is just hearing the sound enough to give you a save or do you have to actively study it somehow?


Think this way: I cause the sound of a giant approaching from the other dungeon room, stomping on the ground. No chance of disbelieve.

But, if the giant does not arrive, and I take a look in the room, seeing nothing... the sound now is less belivable..

[Xerit]

Thanks everyone.

Sounds like our conclusions around the table were roughly on target. Appreciate the input.