PDA

View Full Version : Iron Heart Surge (yes, again)



Sintanan
2010-05-16, 04:27 PM
Finally someone in my group whipped up a character that uses Iron Heart Surge. Prior to finalizing his selection I gave him the following information, and the player basically blew a gasket.
Below is the exact list I have on hand to deal with IHS, and I was wondering if I overly nerf'd IHS or the player is just pissed that I blocked some of the crazier cheese that can be done with IHS, or both...


Iron Heart Surge
can remove
* poison
* disease
* any spell with a duration of 1 round or greater
* temporary negative level
* a condition with a specific duration (see back for condition list)

cannot remove
* ability loss (ability burn, ability damage, or ability drain)
* any spell with a permanent or instantaneous duration
* level loss (via permanent negative levels or resurrection)
* hit point damage
* conditions without specific durations, or that do not allow a standard action (see list below)

notes
* any spell that does not target the adept in its entirety is completely ended by IHS
* any spell, effect, or condition not governed by this list will be dealt with during play and added to this list properly

[back side of page]

conditions
//omitted conditions on the list that are not affected for sake of post size//
* blinded
* confused
* dazzled
* deafened
* entangled
* exhausted
* fatigued
* frightened
* shaken
* sickened

Starbuck_II
2010-05-16, 04:33 PM
Finally someone in my group whipped up a character that uses Iron Heart Surge. Prior to finalizing his selection I gave him the following information, and the player basically blew a gasket.
Below is the exact list I have on hand to deal with IHS, and I was wondering if I overly nerf'd IHS or the player is just pissed that I blocked some of the crazier cheese that can be done with IHS, or both...
So it can remove:
* blinded
* confused
* dazzled
* deafened
* entangled
* exhausted
* fatigued
* frightened
* nauseated
* shaken
* sickened
* stunned

How does it remove stunned /Nauseated since you can't act when stunned or nuaseated?
The rest are cool fine.
Why not negative levels?

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-16, 04:41 PM
*tries to IHS the thread*
*fails*




How does it remove stunned /Nauseated since you can't act when stunned or nuaseated?


Even if mecanichally has not so much sense, by the flavour standpoint I can imagine IHS stunning and nausea.. it's fine IMO.

Sintanan
2010-05-16, 04:41 PM
Err, yeah, forgot to nix nauseated and stunned from the list. Updating.
Negative levels themselves I didn't think was a "condition" and therefore is up in the "can remove" section.

Jarian
2010-05-16, 04:44 PM
He blew a gasket over that?

That's a sensible fix to a poorly written maneuver. He's out of line.

If anything, you allow IHS to work on more things than I would.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-05-16, 04:45 PM
Anyone who blows a gasket over D&D is doing it wrong. You can't IHS the sun any more, and you still can't remove conditions you really should be able to remove with the ability (stunned, nauseated, charmed, dominated), but you can still IHS away a solid fog or a web, which makes it a bizarre but still effective power. You probably should have done the whole IHS nerf before the player made a character, though.

I assume you're keeping the book text that states " select one spell, effect, or other condition currently affecting you and with a duration of 1 or more rounds." A vindictive rules lawyer might say that the wizard's fly spell affects the IHSer by not allowing him to reach the wizard, so he can IHS that effect away. It's the same sort of logic (the crazy kind) that lets you IHS the sun, except it's talking about a spell effect, so it's still allowed within your rules. (Or at the very least there's some vagueness that could take up time within your game to resolve).

Icewraith
2010-05-16, 05:13 PM
IHS makes sense thematically to me even for things like petrification, stunning and nausea, as well as non-permanent negative levels.

I'd never expect it to affect abilities targeted on another person (wiz's fly spell), death effects, ability drain, but negative levels that require a save might work.