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quiet1mi
2010-05-17, 08:12 AM
Looks like the rest of my group are more interested in a character with Cha 6 over a character with a Cha of 16...

So it looks like I am playing Fighter 6 with plans into warforged juggernaught 5... I was wondering if you guys could look over my feat selection for the Fighter 6 part.

*Adamantine Body
*Power Attack
*Dungeon Crasher I
*Improved Bullrush
*Improved Sunder
*Dungeon Crasher II
*Shock Trooper
9th: Combat Brute

If combat Brute is not worth getting I would then have 1 feat open for something else... I do not want to invest too much into the charge action as I feel I get limited returns of the amount invested. I definitely want Dungeon Crasher I & II as they allow for disgusting amounts of damage.

SurlySeraph
2010-05-17, 08:15 AM
Excellent charging build. Don't worry about limited returns, you can almost always charge and you're not yet at the point that you're doing more damage than is necessary to one-shot anything you fight.

quiet1mi
2010-05-17, 08:36 AM
Trust me, if I invest any more in the charge action, I can expect to see some backlash...

Anyway, is combat brute worth it?

AslanCross
2010-05-17, 08:42 AM
Trust me, if I invest any more in the charge action, I can expect to see some backlash...

Anyway, is combat brute worth it?

I'm not sure it has as much synergy with Shock Trooper as the Brute Fighting feat does. It has a lot of synergy with two-handed fighting and bull rushing. (It's from Races of Eberron)

Greenish
2010-05-17, 08:42 AM
Anyway, is combat brute worth it?Yeah, it's pretty nifty if you don't plan charging a new enemy each turn (and I like tactical feats).

How about the one that makes you immune to crits? That's pretty potent at lower levels before you can afford the enhancement.

Critical
2010-05-17, 08:57 AM
Everything's great, but I'd do a Fighter 4/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 instead, along with the useful Knockdown. Getting advantage from the fatigue immunity is a must for a Warforged melee'er. :smallsmile:

Divide by Zero
2010-05-17, 09:46 AM
How about the one that makes you immune to crits? That's pretty potent at lower levels before you can afford the enhancement.

Doesn't Warforged Juggernaut get immunity to crits anyway? Might be a waste of a feat if he can't retrain.

Greenish
2010-05-17, 10:43 AM
Everything's great, but I'd do a Fighter 4/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 instead, along with the useful Knockdown. Getting advantage from the fatigue immunity is a must for a Warforged melee'er. :smallsmile:Or go combo: Spirit Lion Totem for first level, then realize how you erred and take Wolf Totem for the second level. Though for dungeon crasher you'll want fighter 6.
Doesn't Warforged Juggernaut get immunity to crits anyway? Might be a waste of a feat if he can't retrain.Ah yeah, my bad. Juggernaut is only mentioned in the title and once in the OP so I forgot it. :smallredface:

Critical
2010-05-17, 10:58 AM
Or go combo: Spirit Lion Totem for first level, then realize how you erred and take Wolf Totem for the second level. Though for dungeon crasher you'll want fighter 6.Ah yeah, my bad. :smallredface:
Oh, yeah, somehow forgot to mention it, that's definitely a must too.

Zen Master
2010-05-17, 11:06 AM
I have a fairly unrelated question.

So it's juggernaut, and not juggernaught. Hence, it is not something that naught can jugger - rather it seems to be .... something that travels throught the medium of jugger?! Like an astronaut - only with less astro and more jugger?!

Strange word, no?

Henceforth, I'm going to refer to myself as an astronaught - one who travels in other places, but not among the stars.

Optimystik
2010-05-17, 11:33 AM
I have a fairly unrelated question.

So it's juggernaut, and not juggernaught. Hence, it is not something that naught can jugger - rather it seems to be .... something that travels throught the medium of jugger?! Like an astronaut - only with less astro and more jugger?!

Strange word, no?

Henceforth, I'm going to refer to myself as an astronaught - one who travels in other places, but not among the stars.

Astronaut is based on Greek. (Literally: Star + Sailor)
Juggernaut, however, is based on Sanskrit - Jagannatha, meaning "Lord of the Universe."

Any similarity between the modern forms is coincidental.

AslanCross
2010-05-17, 06:53 PM
Astronaut is based on Greek. (Literally: Star + Sailor)
Juggernaut, however, is based on Sanskrit - Jagannatha, meaning "Lord of the Universe."
.

And the concept of a juggernaut being an "unstoppable force" goes back to the Jagannatha chariot, an enormous wheeled vehicle carrying the statue of Vishnu. Supposedly devotees threw themselves beneath the chariot's wheels to attain salvation, but this is not really true.

Anyway, OP, no TOB? Charging Minotaur works really well with Shock Trooper and Brute Fighting.

quiet1mi
2010-05-18, 02:03 AM
Yes, you are very clever in derailing this discussion because this OP totally wanted to talk about the word juggernaut... anyway, getting things back on track..

The idea of Combat Brute is to use momentum swing with Heedless charge...

First Turn: I charge and power attack for 6. *momentum Swing notes that I PA for 6.

Second Turn: Momentum swing gives me a bonus 18 to all of my attacks the next round.

The Gm feels uncomfortable with TOB as it slows down the game a little and reminds him of 4th edition... *he has a burning hatred for that game for some reason... but that is neither here nor there.

Do you guys think Combat Brute is worth a ninth level feat slot? Is there something better that I could be going for? If so, then I will not be needing Improved Sunder.

Currently, I am trying to stay away from the Ubercharger build because it keeps my damage in the realm of the sane. I doubt my Gm will appreciate me dealing hundreds of damage in one swing onto his BBEG... not very cinematic and makes me a one trick pony.

Combat brute and shock trooper give me a little more versatility with 1:Charge, PA for full, sunder weapon/shield, cleave into the wielder of said weapon and shield...
2:Repeat the process with 18 more damage or Finish off the person I charged with 18 more points of damage per attack...

AslanCross
2010-05-18, 02:20 AM
Well, without ToB, the build is still solid. It's just icing on the cake.

The good thing about Combat Brute is that it's a great follow-up to Shock Trooper. The other bonuses it gives aren't as useful. Advancing Blows might work, but Sundering Cleave really isn't--especially when you don't want to break your loot. (I think it's pretty fun for dealing with mooks, though.)

quiet1mi
2010-05-18, 08:40 AM
If Combat Brute is just Icing on the Cake, is there a way to get another flavor in there?

WoodenSword
2010-05-18, 01:54 PM
I actually suggest picking that up later and instead pick up the Spiked Armor feat. Trust me: Being the party's linebacker is far easier when you can impale your foes.

Kobold-Kabob anyone?

Person_Man
2010-05-18, 03:15 PM
Looks like the rest of my group are more interested in a character with Cha 6 over a character with a Cha of 16...

So it looks like I am playing Fighter 6 with plans into warforged juggernaught 5... I was wondering if you guys could look over my feat selection for the Fighter 6 part.

*Adamantine Body
*Power Attack
*Dungeon Crasher I
*Improved Bullrush
*Improved Sunder
*Dungeon Crasher II
*Shock Trooper
9th: Combat Brute

If combat Brute is not worth getting I would then have 1 feat open for something else... I do not want to invest too much into the charge action as I feel I get limited returns of the amount invested. I definitely want Dungeon Crasher I & II as they allow for disgusting amounts of damage.

I would dump Improved Sunder and Combat Brute. Improved Sunder is too situational, and your Charge damage is impressive enough that you don't need Combat Brute. Instead, you should consider improving your reach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777). If you're Evil, you should look into Vile feats (Book of Vile Darkness and Elder Evils). The better ones inflict ability damage on you to give you various abilities. But since Juggernaut gives you immunity, you basically get them for "free." For the same reason you should consider a Ring of X Ray Vision (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Ring_of_X-Ray_Vision) and taking drugs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101), as you can get affordable buffs with no down side.

Also, be sure to get a reliable way to trigger Bull Rush attacks. Although Knockback would be ideal, you don't have the size or Powerful Build needed to qualify. But a couple of Brutal Surge weapons (MIC) and/or a Shield of the Severed Hand should be sufficient.

quiet1mi
2010-05-19, 09:20 AM
The GM is a bit allergic to BOED and BOVD... he just does not like them...

Besides increasing my reach, is there anything else I could do?

Thrawn183
2010-05-19, 09:39 AM
Find a way of charging that's not just in a straight line? Maybe ignoring difficult terrain somehow?

quiet1mi
2010-05-19, 10:26 AM
If my character leapt into the air and body slammed my opponent, would that count as bullrushing someone into a solid structure (the ground)?

If so, I might look at Leap of the heavens... after all with 2 skill points, I am probably going to put half of it into jump...