Elan is Dr. Manhattan

[Particle_Man]

From another thread:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=509130&page=21

post 202:

"Kurotowa:

You know, at first, I was a bit surprised that someone as genre aware as Elan would actually believe that Nale was dead. A personal nemesis does not die off-stage to an unrelated disaster. Anyone with an ounce of genre awareness should know that.

Then I realized that the price of Elan's genre awareness is that he has to abide by the genre rules, not exploit them. And there's no way he could avoid a line like "GASP! But I thought you were dead!!" the next time Nale appears. A bad faith delivery doesn't count, he has to really believe that Nale is dead. Which, of course, he does."

That post strikes me as brilliant. It makes Elan's shallowness a necessary condition for his fatalistic genre-savvyness. I think it might be used to solve various prophecy and time-travel paradoxes, with a little work.

Elan is deep, precisely because he is shallow. :smallsmile:

OMG, he really *does* use ignorance as a power source! :smallcool:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0558.html

[Drakevarg]

Do Playgrounders spiral into depression if they don't meet their 8 Epileptic Trees/Day quota?

[pinwiz]

Do Playgrounders spiral into depression if they don't meet their 8 Epileptic Trees/Day quota?

I know I do. :smallbiggrin:

[Shale]

You know, that makes a crazy kind of sense. Sort of like how Nale was OBVIOUSLY his evil twin, and it's absurd for somebody who knows genre conventions as well as Elan not to see that...but if he did, then there couldn't have been a dramatic betrayal scene!

[NerfTW]

Do Playgrounders spiral into depression if they don't meet their 8 Epileptic Trees/Day quota?

I fail to see how that's an epileptic tree. It's even lampshaded in the comic itself, when Elan refuses to escape from the simple net trap because "We're supposed to be captured here".

Elan's bardic training leads him to choosing to do things in the most dramatic or poetic manner. Normally this is shown with a character mugging for the camera. In Elan's case, it comes off as a childish naiveté.

But part of the story is that Elan is learning that the world ISN'T like it is in books and he has to start taking control of things. Which is ironic, since this is a book and the world DOES revolve around the dramatically appropriate.

[Optimystik]

Elan has blue wang filling the camera? :smallconfused:

[pinwiz]

Elan has blue wang filling the camera? :smallconfused:

well, it's not blue..... but yes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html) :smalltongue:

[dehro]

well, it's not blue..... but yes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html) :smalltongue:

so. very. wrong.
:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

well, it's not blue..... but yes. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0026.html) :smalltongue:

Wait, was Elan even in that strip? I didn't see him.

[Darcy]

I see what you did there.

[pinwiz]

Wait, was Elan even in that strip? I didn't see him.

touche, touche.... :smallsmile:

[dehro]

touche, touche.... :smallsmile:

ewww:smalleek:

[Dr.Epic]

If Elan is Dr. Manhattan does that mean he can turn into a car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w&feature=related)?

[Draz74]

I see what you did there.

Hmmm, that means his armor check penalty was too high.

[Vemynal]

like when Therkla left a door open so Elan had to find a different way to burst onto the scene

"but I left the door open for you!"

"its ok, your new at this"

[Murdim]

Someone had to do this.

http://www.speechable.com/pic/747h5608.png

[Almaseti]

Not a bad theory, as theories go, but what does it have to do with Doctor Manhattan?

[Shale]

Doctor Manhattan doesn't perceive time as linear - he experiences his life at multiple points in time at once. But he can't use his experience from the future to change his actions in the past - as he puts it, "We're all puppets, Laurie. I'm just a puppet who can see the strings."

[sihnfahl]

Not a bad theory, as theories go, but what does it have to do with Doctor Manhattan?
Not perceiving time in a linear fashion.

Blah, ninja'd.

[Deme]

There's one problem with this theory, though. Elan doesn't HAVE to obey the laws of dramatic convention. In fact, my favorite ElanxHaley moment (does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?) comes from him knowing the rules and deciding, even just once, that it'd be better for him not to obey them (# 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)). So he doesn't have to.

[John Cribati]

There's one problem with this theory, though. Elan doesn't HAVE to obey the laws of dramatic convention. In fact, my favorite ElanxHaley moment (does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?) comes from him knowing the rules and deciding, even just once, that it'd be better for him not to obey them (# 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)). So he doesn't have to.

Yeah, but he's doing that for the sake of the relationship. He can't come up with a reason to believe Nale still alive, so he automatically believes he's dead.

[licoot]

Yeah, but he's doing that for the sake of the relationship. He can't come up with a reason to believe Nale still alive, so he automatically believes he's dead.

thats what I thought, Elan MUST follow the rules when it stops him interrupting the plot and awesome moments, but when it suits the story/awesomeness, he can ignore the rules a bit

[Beorn080]

Elan has both ignorance and drama as power sources. After all, when entering that room with Therkla, he went from presumably following, up onto deck from the door, found a rope, tied it off, and swung in in the space of a round. Considering he can't tie his shoes on a good day, it shows that drama powers him, and he is at the most powerful when he is fully ignorant of the drama of an epic moment. I'd say he could beat O'Chul at that point, but even drama fails its saving throw against O'Chul.

[Herald Alberich]

After all, when entering that room with Therkla, he went from presumably following, up onto deck from the door, found a rope, tied it off, and swung in in the space of a round.

Um, I thought he just went around the corner and jumped through the window. Who says he swung? What would he have swung from? The mast wouldn't provide the proper angle.

[/pendantry]

Edit: Oh, I see, you're thinking the room was belowdecks. I always thought it was a room on deck with the edge of the deck outside it. Hmm, maybe he swung off the deck after all. Would explain the delay.

[doodthedud]

(does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?)

Whoever decided to "name couples" like that needs to DIAF.

[Dr.Epic]

There's one problem with this theory, though. Elan doesn't HAVE to obey the laws of dramatic convention. In fact, my favorite ElanxHaley moment (does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?) comes from him knowing the rules and deciding, even just once, that it'd be better for him not to obey them (# 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)). So he doesn't have to.

Fate just made him do that.

[Kobold-Bard]

If Elan is Dr. Manhattan does that mean he can turn into a car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w&feature=related)?

:smalleek:

I loves it :smallbiggrin:

[Ertier]

... It's so preposterous it must BE TRUE!

[Coidzor]

There's one problem with this theory, though. Elan doesn't HAVE to obey the laws of dramatic convention. In fact, my favorite ElanxHaley moment (does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?) comes from him knowing the rules and deciding, even just once, that it'd be better for him not to obey them (# 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)). So he doesn't have to.

Bad! No! *sprays with water*

[Bharg]

There's one problem with this theory, though. Elan doesn't HAVE to obey the laws of dramatic convention. In fact, my favorite ElanxHaley moment (does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?) comes from him knowing the rules and deciding, even just once, that it'd be better for him not to obey them (# 670 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html)). So he doesn't have to.

I think he is obeying the rules even at this point and by the way I like this theory very much. If Elan asked Haley what happened while they were separated and she didn't tell him it would INCREASE the dramatic tension!

[Shatteredtower]

I suppose you'll be wanting us to believe Belkar is Haley's father too? What 's next, Durkon as Rorshach? ("And I'll look down and whisper, 'Control weather'.")


(does that have a couple name? Halen, maybe?)

Only if Roy's current pairing gets pronounced "celery".

Just don't try it with Nale and Sabine. It leads only to tasteless faux innuendo.