Help with a heavy hitting Rogue [3.5]

[dextercorvia]

I'm thinking of a strength based Rogue(ish) character that gets close to full BAB and decent SA dice, Craven, and utilizing a two handed reach weapon for Power Attack, and eventually Shocktrooper. Out of combat, I would like him to be decent at either stealth or social skills. I haven't picked which one yet.

This is a theoretic build, so I'm not limited to any books, but I don't have many of them, either. Anything with a Web reference is appreciated. Let's assume 28 pt buy, and (hope for) no Multiclass Penalties.

Str18 Dex10 Con14 Int12 Wis8 Cha8
Human Rogue1/Sp.LionTotemBarb1/Rogue+1/Swashbuckler2/Rogue+1/Fighter1/Swashbuckler+X

Feats/Abilities:
H: Power Attack
1: Craven
2: Pounce, Whirling Frenzy variant (SLTBarb)
3: Imp. Bull Rush
6: Daring Outlaw
7: Shocktrooper (Fighter Bonus)

I'm not really sure what to do after ECL 7 (either in classes/PrCs or feats, I guess improved crit could be fun with this much static damage mod's)



A simpler version has less skills but higher BAB, (The feats work out the same, it loses one from Fighter, but doesn't have to take Daring Outlaw).

SLTBarb1/Fighter5 (SA/Thug variant from UA)

H: Power Attack
1: Imp. Bull Rush
1: Pounce, Whirling Frenzy variant (SLTBarb)
3: Craven
6: Shocktrooper

I'm looking for different ways to implement this idea, or complementary feats and abilites, also suggestions on how to round out these levels.

Thanks so much.

[PId6]

Rogue 3/Frenzy Lion Barb 1/SA Thug 4/Swordsage 1/SA Thug +X

H: Able Learner
1: Craven
3: Power Attack, Penetrating Strike
4: Pounce, Whirling Frenzy
6: Imp. Bull Rush
9: Shock Trooper
12: Leap Attack or Extra Rage

This focuses more on Sneak Attack than Power Attack, but it can do both after a few levels. Penetrating Strike is really important for making Sneak Attack work on everything, so rogue 3 is highly recommended. You're losing another point of Bab from swordsage, but Assassin's Stance and maneuvers are very nice to have, especially Distracting Embers/Cloak of Deception to help you Sneak Attack. Able Learner lets you get all the skills you want, and three levels of rogue + swordsage dip gives a lot of extra skill points.

[gallagher]

obligatory TOB suggestion.

every rogue should go for a spike chain. i dont care who you are, it literally is the best option for a rogue. flanking from soooo many squares.

also, i would suggest taking instead of the fighter levels, go for cleric. 5th levels spells are where its at: Turn 1, righteous might, turn 2, divine strength. then you go to town.

get strongarm bracers so you can have a larger weapon.

then get a heartseeking amulet, also from MiC. it lets you hit people at their touch AC 3x per day. you will be able to power attack for full and do your sneak attack damage, which will make you a very formidable foe

[dextercorvia]

I googled Penetrating Strike and see that it gives half SA if flanking. How does that work with Craven? At 3rd when you get it, is it (2d6+3)/2 or (2d6)/2+3?

[PId6]

I googled Penetrating Strike and see that it gives half SA if flanking. How does that work with Craven? At 3rd when you get it, is it (2d6+3)/2 or (2d6)/2+3?
The extra damage from Craven is not halved. Craven doesn't actually add Sneak Attack damage; it just adds damage when you make sneak attacks.

[Akal Saris]

I'll throw in Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 with the Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel) and maybe Adaptive Style for all rogue class skills.

BAB +19, SA +10d6, 3d6/17d10 HD.
H: PA
1: Craven
3: Imp. bull Rush
6: Daring Outlaw
9: Shock Trooper
12:
15:
18:

[Greenish]

You're losing another point of Bab from swordsage, but Assassin's Stance and maneuvers are very nice to have, especially Distracting Embers/Cloak of Deception to help you Sneak AttackYou'll need two levels of swordsage or two feats to pick up Assassin's Stance, since you can only select first level stances at swordsage 1.
every rogue should go for a spike chain. i dont care who you are, it literally is the best option for a rogue. flanking from soooo many squares.Meteor Hammer would be better, but it's from Dragon Magazine.

also, i would suggest taking instead of the fighter levels, go for cleric. 5th levels spells are where its at: Turn 1, righteous might, turn 2, divine strength. then you go to town.You can make a skillful clericzilla, but I don't feel that's what OP wants. Obviously, you can always do better with spells.

then get a heartseeking amulet, also from MiC. it lets you hit people at their touch AC 3x per day. you will be able to power attack for full and do your sneak attack damage, which will make you a very formidable foeMagic Domain and wand of Wraithstrike would much better.

[PId6]

Adaptive Style Able Learner
Fixed.

Also, that last level doesn't really get you much since SA comes at odd levels. Barbarian dip somewhere is probably worth it.


You'll need two levels of swordsage or two feats to pick up Assassin's Stance, since you can only select first level stances at swordsage 1.
I consider the "begin play" part a simple error, on the same level as the "x6 skill points at 1st level" one. They obviously just didn't consider multiclassing, and you're not "begin[ing] play" if you multiclass into it at 9th level.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'll throw in Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 with the Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel) and maybe Adaptive Style Able Learner for all rogue class skills.

BAB +19, SA +10d6, 3d6/17d10 HD.
H: PA
1: Craven
3: Imp. bull Rush
6: Daring Outlaw
9: Shock Trooper
12:
15:
18:

fixed that for you

Edit: Darn it, I failed my spot check against Ninjas

[PId6]

Edit: Darn it, I failed my spot check against Ninjas
*Shadow Jaunts in*
That's swordsage to you!
*Cloak of Deceptions out*

[dextercorvia]

I was curious about Assassin's Stance, but I got the impression that it was a higher level thing. I did consider Able learner, but I'm not terribly concerned with skills. I am thinking of this as a martial character who sacrifices one (possibly two if I can ever skim a copy of ToB) points of BAB for +XD6 SA and some other nifties.


You can make a skillful clericzilla, but I don't feel that's what OP wants. Obviously, you can always do better with spells.

This is correct. I had considered a 1 level Cloistered Cleric dip for Travel Devotion, like many Swift Hunter builds, but I figure Pounce is sufficient most of the time. I hadn't considered that the Magic domain would eliminate most of the need for UMD. Wand-chambered Wand of Wraithstrike would be awesome.

@PId6 Thanks for the tip and clarification on Penetrating Strike.