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Deity
2010-05-18, 04:50 PM
Starting a new campaign soon, and I've developed a character concept, but I'm having trouble putting together a suitable build.

Starting at 5th level, and adventuring until about 10th or so.

I definitely want at least one level of paladin, for smite, detect evil.

The concept is basically that the character is a paladin first and foremost, who has taken a vow of poverty and therefore fights only unarmed or with simple weapons, yet still has several supernatural or magical abilities to aid in combat.
Anyone have some good ideas?

Eldariel
2010-05-18, 04:58 PM
Starting a new campaign soon, and I've developed a character concept, but I'm having trouble putting together a suitable build.

Starting at 5th level, and adventuring until about 10th or so.

I definitely want at least one level of paladin, for smite, detect evil.

The concept is basically that the character is a paladin first and foremost, who has taken a vow of poverty and therefore fights only unarmed or with simple weapons, yet still has several supernatural or magical abilities to aid in combat.
Anyone have some good ideas?

Are you married to the classes or could you consider e.g. Monk 1/Cleric/Sacred Fist? Same fluff (as long as you go LG), but probably more functional representation; you can even pick Smite through e.g. Divine Might (to use Turn Undead) or a Domain (at least Destruction gives it, IIRC) and Detect Evil...heh.

Though with Serenity [Dragon Magazine] you could derive Paladin-abilities off Wisdom to lessen the multi-attribute dependency, at least. But without that, I'd definitely go Cleric/Monk/Sacred Fist. You can be a Paladin without a single level in Paladin.

Divide by Zero
2010-05-18, 07:41 PM
Cleric/Prestige Paladin will get you most of the iconic abilities in the first three levels of the latter, along with superior spellcasting

Mando Knight
2010-05-18, 07:48 PM
I think it was... Ascetic Knight that makes Monk and Paladin levels stack for certain abilities? I think it also allows fully free multiclassing between the two, though some DMs waive the multiclass restriction anyway, so it might not matter...

Kantolin
2010-05-18, 09:54 PM
The feat you're looking for is indeed 'Ascetic Knight', from the Complete Adventurer. It lets you multiclass Paladin and Monk, with the added perk that the two classes stack for monk unarmed strike damage and smite damage.

Due to this, um. I'd personally focus on Paladin, and thus go something like Monk 2 / Paladin 18. That gets you evasion and a little flurry, and then you can go paladin and get an improving mount and an improving lay on hands and spellcasting and the like.

To make this work with vow of poverty, um... well, ouch. Pick a really bang-up awesome flying mount.

A mildly interesting option would be to go Monk 2 / Paladin 5 in some order, and then hop into the Fist of Raziel. This would be more effective, granted, if you used a quarterstaff or something you can hold in both hands for the power attacking. If your DM won't let you go back to Paladin afterwards, then you can just go Monk 2 / Paladin 8 (Or just pick up something that's not paladin in the end). Granted, though, that doesn't help your unarmed strike if that was your fancy, but hey. Power attack. Take leap attack and stuff.

Krazddndfreek
2010-05-18, 10:00 PM
Unarmed swordsage would be better in all honesty. It doesn't really take any work to reflavor his abilities the only problem you might encounter is detecting evil if that's what you really want. At lower levels till about 8th or 10th its extremely potent with VoP. After that, I'm not sure since I haven't played that far, but believe me when I say that it works well enough even though you can't use items. Also, if you do go for the swordsage, look up the homebrew around these boards, its very good and balanced.

Mandar
2010-05-18, 10:00 PM
I actually did this in a campaign just a little while, I also took the "Ascetic Knight" feat. It seems to work really well, the combination of Divine Grace for saving throws and the monks Wisdom modifier to AC helps a lot, plus with vow of poverty you become an evil smiting machine.

Manny-

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-18, 10:45 PM
The Argent Fist prestige Class (Faiths of Eberron), while requiring "Knight Training" or "Monastic Training", Turn Undead, Smite Evil, Evasion, +5 BAB and technically linked to the "Silver Flame" religion... could be re-fluffed very slightly (to get rid of the specific religious affiliation part) to do what you want. It gives you the "Ascetic Knight" Feat for free and Ki Focus for all Monk Weapons at level 1. It also gives you your Wis-to-AC bonus in any armor at level 2.

Standard entry is Monk-2, Paladin-4

When re-fluffing I would remove the references to Lycanthropes, change "Silver Flame" to "Holy Light".

I would also allow the Serenity Feat to make all Charisma references be Wisdom for this class.

Deity
2010-05-18, 10:57 PM
Thanks for all the help. Probably going to go Monk/Paladin with Ascetic Knight. Maybe think about a prestige class later.

Soranar
2010-05-18, 11:00 PM
Argent fist is probably your best bet for a decent prestige class

to get an armor, be dragonblooded and take the dragon husk alternate class feature (you trade it for heavy armor proficiency)

to be dragonblooded you can take the dragonborn of bahamut template (fluff wise it works well with a LG paladin)

gives you a medium armor at no cost that combines really well with Vow of Poverty

Decisive strike ACF for monk works well with a paladin/monk as it works in armor too and it effectively doubles your smite's damage

Hendel
2010-05-18, 11:25 PM
Thanks for all the help. Probably going to go Monk/Paladin with Ascetic Knight. Maybe think about a prestige class later.

I too ran a character like this a while back. I was looking towards levels in psychic warrior (if psionics are allowed in your game). I did not do much damage, but the DM do could do nothing to stop me. He couldn't hit me very often and I made every save that he threw at me. It was quite the fun character. The problem I had was being a paladin and a monk, I would quickly out run the party to get at the big bad guy and I would usually fight him solo. Not being able to do much damage was an issue in that case.

If you start the build as a human with Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty as your first two feats you can pick up an exalted feat at 1st level as well. Take Nymph's Kiss so you can start getting the bonus skill points right away as well. Look to Intuitive Attack to use your wisdom to hit and then you do not need Weapon Finesse and can dump all your big ability gains in wisdom first.

I went for some of the Ki strikes and the other vows as you quickly find yourself with a lot off extra exalted feats. If you go for the vow of peace and nonviolence, take Holy Subdual to turn your holy damage to non-lethal so you don't violate your vows.

A really fun build, but very diffirent than what you may be used to running, hence the "mature" label on the Book of exalted Deeds. Have fun with it and watch the other players in disbelief as you give litteraly thousands of gold and magic items to the poor. It was a blast!!

lsfreak
2010-05-19, 12:46 AM
I did not do much damage, but the DM do could do nothing to stop me. He couldn't hit me very often and I made every save that he threw at me. It was quite the fun character.

The biggest problem with this is that if you're not a threat and impossible to do anything against, intelligent monsters will start ignoring you altogether after the first round or two. Why hit the tank when he has squishier and more threatening allies? This is also applicable to anyone with access to a bard after you've hit 10th level, at which point you're famous enough to be known through Bardic Knowledge, and anyone with a few spare goldpieces knows to ignore the one guy, hit his friends.

Curmudgeon
2010-05-19, 02:33 AM
I too ran a character like this a while back. I was looking towards levels in psychic warrior (if psionics are allowed in your game). I did not do much damage, but
This can be fixed with a feat and a single spell from your party Sorcerer/Wizard: Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon, page 115). This lasts 1 hour/CL, and boosts your unarmed damage 1 size category/4 caster levels. Add on top of Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) and every hit will do 3d6 damage at 5th level. At 8th level you'll improve to 4d8 on every hit.

gorfnab
2010-05-19, 04:14 AM
Bard 1/ Paladin 7/ Monk 2/ Paladin 6

Feats needed: Devoted Performer, Initiate of Milil, Ascetic Knight,
Other feats of use: Able Learner, Melodic Casting, Snowflake Wardance, Extra Smiting, Song of the Heart, Words of Creation, Improved Natural Attack, Dragonfire Inspiration

Unarmed Strike of a 19th level Monk
Bardic Music of an 18th level Bard
Smite Evil damage of a 20th level Paladin, Smite Evil at 3/day (easily fixable with the Extra Smiting feat)

paddyfool
2010-05-19, 04:39 AM
This can be fixed with a feat and a single spell from your party Sorcerer/Wizard: Greater Mighty Wallop (Races of the Dragon, page 115). This lasts 1 hour/CL, and boosts your unarmed damage 1 size category/4 caster levels. Add on top of Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack) and every hit will do 3d6 damage at 5th level. At 8th level you'll improve to 4d8 on every hit.

Enlarge Person is very handy too, and also makes you harder for enemies to ignore/bypass. Alternatively, if Psionics are in, you could get access to Expansion (e.g. by being a Psionic Duergar)... this would only work if you're also being allowed to take the Serenity feat, however.

Cogidubnus
2010-05-19, 05:07 AM
Generalist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107150&highlight=generalist), if you're allowed homebrew.
Take Paladin, Unarmed Master and one other of your choice for associations, with Battle Focus. If you want skill points, definitely use rogue or ranger association. You'll have none otherwise. Also, this class means you can wear armour and still use the monk abilities you have.
The Turn Undead Association is worth considering for extra divine powers too.