Superheroes

[Uber_Nerd]

Does anyone have any ideas on what superhero could defeat all others?

For me, it has to be Neo

[Ing]

does Neo count as a superhero?

and no Neo would not win, as most other heros exist in their own world which is outside the Matrix.... outside the Matrix Neo is just a sub-par guy....posibly a blind one at that. besides even in the Matrix he could not defeat ubber-Smith

[thehothead]

yeah also does this include superhero TEAMS or hust individuals?

[Uber_Nerd]

Individiduals, or maybe teams, i don't know

Edit: And in the third movie, new destroys the sentinels

[Ing]

yes but because of the very nature of the Squidies....won't work agianst Marvel Sentiles, or even a low level hero like DareDevil or snicker...even Blue Beatle.... Hell Aquaman would have an advantage agianst him. no shocking lock up for anything outside of the Source....nor any powers outside the matrix...

[Nerd-o-rama]

I think Superman is the default winner in straight-up combat, simply because he's essentially invincible except against a well-prepared and equipped opponent. And he's not mechanical in any way, so outside the Matrix he beats that poser Neo pretty hard.

Now, as the various other superhero threads show, it's really all down to circumstances, e.g. with sufficient preperation, Batman beats Superman. But in a straight-up brawl, Superman.

[Zephyer]

I assume by superheros you also mean villians too.

In which case, I'm gonna have to go with...

Ego the Living Planet!! - on the account that, well, he's a giant planet!

However, as Nerd-o-rama said, it does really come down to circumstance. If the plot calls for someone to win/lose, that is what is going to happen.

Ego on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_the_Living_Planet

[CelestialStick]

I think Superman is the default winner in straight-up combat, simply because he's essentially invincible except against a well-prepared and equipped opponent. And he's not mechanical in any way, so outside the Matrix he beats that poser Neo pretty hard.

Now, as the various other superhero threads show, it's really all down to circumstances, e.g. with sufficient preperation, Batman beats Superman. But in a straight-up brawl, Superman.


Unless we're talking about the weak, stupid, ineffectual Superman that some folks recently have claimed currently exists in the comic books, I agree. The Superman who can shift tectonic plates, deflect an asteroid capable of causing an extinction-level collision, and even turn back time is the best of all, especially when combined with his natural goodness and nobility of spirit.

[Ing]

no he' stupid....and makes for irritatingly poor stories.

[6079smithw]

Lobo. In any fight in which anyone who isn't Lobo wins, the other person cheated. Because, come on; who could possibly beat Lobo?

[ed]

...everyone knows that the trump card of all trump cards is john constantine. and no, i don't mean that horrifically bastardized version portrayed by that agonizingly untalented keanu reeves.

ed

[Tiberian]

Thor. He has Odin's power (magic-based) and is other wise Superman's level without the weaknesses.

[sun_tzu]

Let's see...
Superman's power level is immense. Not enough to beat everyone else, though. However...We've seen that the guy's pretty smart, actually. I wonder what he could achieve is he was planning beforehand...
Batman had contingency plans for taking out his teamates in the Justice League. Pretty efficient plans, too.
Reed Richards could figure out a way to do anything.
Aslan could...Oh, wait. Wrong genre.

[Roland St. Jude]

As I always say, "whomever the penciller/writer/GM wants to be more powerful will be." On any given day, that's the truth of comic books.

Plus, as noted above, it's all about context. Who do you want in a stand up fight? Who do want in an unknown but imminent global disaster? Who do you want leading your team in general?

I mean, you may not want the Scarlet Witch to take your back in fight, but she just altered reality a couple times and depowered almost all the mutants.

[Chamrox]

Phoenix aka Jean Grey
She can alter reality.

[menkent]

yea, phoenix was pretty hard core... but she was kind of a wuss. i'd have to say "whoever's holding the infinity gauntlet" ;)
supes is a sentimental favorite in that cold war sort of nostalgic way, but he never seemed to want to kick butt enough to win in a tough fight. thanos would make it pretty far in my bracket though - batman's strategery with serious power to back it up and no qualms about breaking some necks.

[Alchemistmerlin]

Mr. Immortal wins.

Why? Because he can't die. He just has to wait for the other superheros to drop dead of old age, exhaustion, etc.

[CelestialStick]

Phoenix aka Jean Grey
She can alter reality.
Except that it turned out that Phoenix wasn't really Jean Grey but was really the Phoenix Force masquarading as Jean Grey while the real Jean Grey healed in a cocoon at the bottom of the lake. In the end I seem to recall that since the Phoenix Force went insane, the X-Men were forced to kil her, so I'm thinking she doesn't beat everyone else.



Mr. Immortal wins.

Why? Because he can't die. He just has to wait for the other superheros to drop dead of old age, exhaustion, etc.

At least in some of the incarnations of Superman, he doesn't age and die either. Indeed back before DC comics made him vulnerable to magic, there was an episode in that took place in the future, where all kryptonite was gone from the universe, and all of Superman's friends were long dead, and he was lonely and wanted to die but couldn't. So I'd say that he and Mr. Immortal would tie there. :)

[menkent]

In the end I seem to recall that since the Phoenix Force went insane, the X-Men were forced to kil her, so I'm thinking she doesn't beat everyone else.


well, she killed herself by stepping in front of some sort of omg-super-laser sentry cannon on the moon and let herself get vaporized. but whatever.

[Ing]

oh come on, who in the marvel universe HASN'T altered reality at some point or another


doubly so if you count spontatnious "un-dying" as altering reality.

[SPoD]

Whoever's name is on the cover of the comic in which the events are portrayed.

Seriously, have you ever noticed that when Superman guest stars in another hero's comic, he always loses to that hero? Aquaman kicks his ass, Batman outsmarts him, even new characters trounce him as part of the author's plan to show how cool their creation is. The best thing Superman could ever do would be to stick to his own comics.

[ed]

except for in john byrne's man of steel in the 80s. bats did out-smart supes in that one. :>

and i still say john constantine.

ed

[KayJay]

The most powerful being in the Marvel universe would be the Living Tribunal, while I don't think there's really an equivalent in the DC universe. The most powerful an individual has been would probably be someone like Ion, or the Spectre (although I don't think he's as powerful as Ion was when he took the Oblivion/Parallax power).

[ed]

it isn't always about power: note the entire "batman can outprep" meme that keeps popping up in the "batman vs. [character]" threads. :>

ed

[KayJay]

It's not all power, but I'd say power has a lot to do with it, if you have enough of it :)

[ed]

remember owen reece, aka molecule man? :>

ed

[Idiotbox90]

Any relation to Moleculo? The Molecular Man!

Dr. Doom wins this. He's the smartest man in the marvel universe and the second best magic user. He makes Batman's plans seem like something made by Wyle E. Coyote.

[ed]

er...on what basis do you declare that doom is smarter than reed richards?

ed

[Alchemistmerlin]

Any relation to Moleculo? The Molecular Man!

Dr. Doom wins this. He's the smartest man in the marvel universe and the second best magic user. He makes Batman's plans seem like something made by Wyle E. Coyote.


Actually Doom is significantly less intelligent than Richards, that's why he often tries to force richards to help him with his plans.

Most of Doom's tech is stolen for good ol' Reed.

[Idiotbox90]

Dr. Doom is almost always able to outsmart Reed Richards. He has been able to cure the Thing of his disfigurement, something Reed Richards has never successfully done. While Reed is most certainly a better scientist, Doom has a great knowledge of magic. Perhaps Doom is not smarter than Reed, his flaws often cause his schemes to fail. However Doom is most certainly the second best mage in the Marvel Universe and one of the two most intelligent people on Earth.

[ed]

hold on a sec: doom stole his tech from reed richards? when was that revealed? i stopped reading in the early 90s so i must have missed something.

ed

[Alchemistmerlin]

Dr. Doom is almost always able to outsmart Reed Richards. He has been able to cure the Thing of his disfigurement, something Reed Richards has never successfully done. While Reed is most certainly a better scientist, Doom has a great knowledge of magic. Perhaps Doom is not smarter than Reed, his flaws often cause his schemes to fail. However Doom is most certainly the second best mage in the Marvel Universe and one of the two most intelligent people on Earth.


Besides,
Doom lost to Squirrel Girl.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/Alchemistmerlin/ConfoundtheseRodents.jpg

[Idiotbox90]

That photo makes me sad. Luckily with Doom, there is always a way to explain any embarissing defeat.

It was a Doom-Bot.

[Alchemistmerlin]

That photo makes me sad. Luckily with Doom, there is always a way to explain any embarissing defeat.

It was a Doom-Bot.


Bzzzzz WRONG

That was Doom, Marvel and The Watcher have confirmed it.

That's why I love that picture, it makes Doom fans cry.

[Idiotbox90]

I really feel sad now. Lord, how does Doom sleep at night. Batroc the Leaper could probably defeat Squirrel-Girl. Oh, thats a good idea. Batroc defeats everyone.

[Skyserpent]

Anyone ever see the daughters of Batroc the Leaper and the Tarantula? They were around for about 4 panels before being shot by Taskmaster for being stereotypes...

[Alchemistmerlin]

I really feel sad now. Lord, how does Doom sleep at night. Batroc the Leaper could probably defeat Squirrel-Girl. Oh, thats a good idea. Batroc defeats everyone.


Thanos lost to Squirrel Girl.

I swear she's Omega Level and just doesn't know it.


Anyone ever see the daughters of Batroc the Leaper and the Tarantula? They were around for about 4 panels before being shot by Taskmaster for being stereotypes...


I have that issue. Yeah, quite amusing.

Still not as good as the Japanese-school-girl stereotype assassins that almost get Tasky and Agent X

[Idiotbox90]

How did Thanos lose to Squirrel Girl? I am starting to hate her.

[Alchemistmerlin]

How did Thanos lose to Squirrel Girl? I am starting to hate her.


I don't have an image of that one, but yeah. She beat Thanos.

Fun stuff.

Hate her if you wish, I'll continue to worship her as the last bastion of silly left in the overly gritty Marvel Universe

Marvel: "GRRRRRR haet mutant! liek death! KILL KILL DEAD KILL!"
Squirrel Girl: "HIIIIIIIIIIIIIII OOO look! Something shiny!"

As SG says in one of the GLA books: Comic books are someplace that you should want to escape TO not from, they should be a break from the horrors of life, not a tool to bring more horror into it.

[Ing]

BAH. give me the darker more down to earth ones anytime, with maybe some comic relief OR give me compleate silly nonesense...don't blend them in the same universe. its better story telling. example a world where Howard the DUck exists with PUnisher is terrible...as is a world where Donald DUck and goofy fights along with CLoud and Squal.

i like both drama and humor but just write good stories. personally for my hero stories i prefer the dark type, that's just me...i hate it when comics stretch me to beyond my pt of suspended disbelief. (hence my hatred for 'undyings' comic book deaths, class 5 marvel characters (the Richards brat, Proteus and sometimes Jean), superman, and Antman, and Aquaman...)

good hero should be stronger than a normal person but still breakable, that way there's an actual tension that they might loose. superman has become far too cliche. its the same in D&D, you have players who think a good character is one who is the strongest and makes best use of all the rules to beeeeeeeeeeeotch any monsters or NPCs, and others who know that a good character is really an interesting one, even if he's a lowly lepprecy stricken meloncoly goblin adventuring to find a cure for his disease so he can win a mate and continue on his family name. an interesting hero is SUPER not PENULTIMIATE. (though a good vilian is of course unstopable). too many comic book writers fall into the first powergammer catagory...and in my opinion the industry has a serious lack of conviction, whaffling too much so that NO CHANGE IS EVER PERMANENT. there is no development in their world since everything is either changed back or retconed. show some balls and make a big change and stick with it. I'm so sick of say iron man's apparent death being faked, or resurected, or replaced by a robot...if u want to kill him kill him, just be sure u've done all you want with the character. well in all fairness i guess part of it is because comics seek to be ever-lasting and thus have no real set storyline to flow to start to end...still though, i want to see some major character STAY DEAD...or maimed or what not, or change their costume permanently.

ok my rant is done carry on