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Balor01
2010-05-19, 02:26 PM
What I'll write here is not new or a contribution to whole wiz-is-powerfull thing, just something I would like confirmed or denied.

The only thing that can monster-wise destroy a wizard is Instant ability. Say permanent turn-to stone gaze.

Wizs have:
- I win initiative spells
- timestop
- ability to drop X-ton iron cubes on stuff.

So IMHO only thing it can make wizard lose is instant ability like Worst Nightmare (Dream larva), Gibbering (Gibbering orb), Fear Gaze (Gloom), etc.

True or flase?

KillianHawkeye
2010-05-19, 02:28 PM
This depends heavily on the wizard's play-style, known spells, and what spells it actually has prepared.

So I'm going to say: Batman wizard, probably true; average wizard, false; blaster wizard, super-false.

arguskos
2010-05-19, 02:30 PM
So IMHO only thing it can make wizard lose is instant ability like Worst Nightmare (Dream larva), Gibbering (Gibbering orb), Fear Gaze (Gloom), etc.
I'd like to note that these are all Epic monsters. Just sayin'. If we're going there, Epic Spellcasting needs to be addressed (probably as "we aren't counting it").

Balor01
2010-05-19, 02:34 PM
@KillianHawkeye

blaster wizard, super-false.
Why? Blasters are not protected in any special way, are they. And even in timestop they see their targets and must roll a save.

@arguskos
Well ... MM1 is completely useless vs. lvl 20 wizards. So epic all the way.

Greenish
2010-05-19, 02:43 PM
So I'm going to say: Batman wizard, probably true; average wizard, false; blaster wizard, super-false.A blaster wizard can be much better than "average wizard" and know how to protect himself.

Blasting is less efficient than being batman, but that doesn't mean you can't optimize for it (and break the game while on it).

hewhosaysfish
2010-05-19, 03:01 PM
@KillianHawkeye
Why? Blasters are not protected in any special way, are they. And even in timestop they see their targets and must roll a save.


I don't think he's disagreeing with the statement "these things can call a wizard".
I think he's disagreeing with the statement "only these things can kill a wizard".

Balor01
2010-05-19, 03:05 PM
@hewhosaysfish
Hmmm. I guess another lvl 20 wiz can do the job. But say, tarrasque (even with flying and AMF at will) can not do the job (enormous iron cube tumbling down in first round, then pinning tarrasque untill starvation/dehydration does the trick. Regeneration does not heal it.)

But as for poor monsters - I asssume there are only real options.

Gnaeus
2010-05-19, 03:08 PM
Depending on the wizard, even those may not be options. Effective use of scrying combined with proper pre-buffs and well worded contingencies can still give you an I win button (or at least I don't lose).