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Dishwatat
2010-05-19, 02:54 PM
My friend and I started The World's Largest Dungeon with 2 characters. A Rogue and a Knight. Our DM thinks this is impossible, but we plan to prove him wrong. If you're interested in seeing half the average party size attempt to conquer a dungeon spanning character levels 1-20, stay tuned!

Prologue: The Characters
First, we will introduce Rogue. Rogue is a ladies man, and few have been seen who can shoot a crossbow better than him. His hobbies include disarming traps, picking pockets, and long walks on the beach.
Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Preferred Weapons:
Short Sword
Crossbow (any).
Now, without any further ado, Knight is here to tell you a little bit about himself.

Knight is a noble and humble man, who enjoys referring to himself in the third person. His strength is notable, and his endurance is the subject of the songs of bards! With axe and halberd, he plans to explore this dungeon, slaying monsters and gathering wealth. His feats include power attack, Cleave, and Combat reflexes, the first of which is part of his class training.

Together, they fight crime. explore dungeons.

Rixx
2010-05-19, 02:56 PM
This sounds incredible. I wish you two the best of luck!

NekoJoker
2010-05-19, 03:57 PM
yeah I want to know how you guys face this challenge.
Keep us posted

Darklord Xavez
2010-05-19, 04:02 PM
yeah I want to know how you guys face this challenge.
Keep us posted

Double entendre FTW!

Anyways: This seems good. Will subscribe to this and watch intently.
-Xavez

Flickerdart
2010-05-19, 04:27 PM
Stand-still on the enemies and let Rogue pick them off from the shadows? Seems like a workable tactic.

Greenish
2010-05-19, 04:30 PM
With axe and halberd, he plans to explore this dungeon, slaying monsters and gathering wealth.Be warned, unless houseruled otherwise, halberd doesn't have reach.

Enix18
2010-05-19, 05:03 PM
You guys actually posted about this? You're both ridiculous...

*sigh* Well, since it seems you've already gotten some fans, I guess I have no choice but to actually DM this. Don't say I didn't warn you, though! (I'm predicting death by stirges and darkmantles.)

Piedmon_Sama
2010-05-19, 05:06 PM
Good luck, guys! I'm pulling for you. :3

GenPol
2010-05-19, 05:10 PM
Should be fun. Short maybe, but fun nonetheless! Good luck. :smalltongue:

The Bellmaker
2010-05-19, 05:46 PM
We shall totally accomplish this! As noble Knight, I shall ascertain that my full 15 hp stand between rogue and danger!

I...am heavy weapons guy. Tiny puny babies will all die![/thickrussianaccent]

But yeah. I think I'll be mostly using the halberd, and only bust out the shield when I need to. Unless... *plots quietly*

Piedmon_Sama
2010-05-19, 05:48 PM
If your gear includes a shield, why not carry a tower shield on your back, so you can just spin around to act as moving cover for your rogue buddy? Also you might want to look at the Shield Charge feat from Complete Warrior.... run into somebody and clotheline them with your shield, good times, good times...

Greenish
2010-05-19, 05:52 PM
If your gear includes a shield, why not carry a tower shield on your back, so you can just spin around to act as moving cover for your rogue buddy?Heh, doesn't work that way, but it'd be amusing.

Lord Vampyre
2010-05-19, 05:58 PM
Remember, if all else fails.........run away. I once went into this particular dungeon and kept losing half my party, mainly because they couldn't remember that running is a very important tactic.

Good Luck!!!

The Bellmaker
2010-05-19, 06:07 PM
Of course, of course...It's all so clear now! I have it! *maniacal laughter*.

Also, just took a look into my PHBII and found out I was using...not the knight. I found a bad wiki...

And must restat! Well, no, not really. Just going to be trading around feats a bit, since knights do not actually get Power Attack. Which, of course, invalidates cleave. Since my DM has found this thread, this is fair warning. Trading Cleave for Armour Focus [Heavy]. And Combat reflexes is dropped for Armour Specialization [Heavy].

AtopTheMountain
2010-05-19, 06:08 PM
Not sure how long you'll last without a mage and a healer, but I'm supporting you! Good luck!

Human Paragon 3
2010-05-19, 09:01 PM
This sounds awesome. I will be watching this carefully!

Dishwatat
2010-05-20, 12:20 PM
Thanks everyone! We're gonna do this! I had no idea we'd get this big of a response! For YOU, the faithful supporters, WE WILL NOT FALL!!!!!!
Do your worst Dungeon Master!

The Bellmaker
2010-05-20, 03:44 PM
Dear lord. DM, ignore him.

Okay, friend, I know you haven't run with him as DM very much, but trust me when I say this: He accepts those challenges. With gusto. And then we die horribly.

Just...don't say that sort of thing. It's along the lines of "How can it be any worse?" or "What else can go wrong?"

kestrel404
2010-05-21, 09:04 AM
I have two tips for beating the first map of the dungeon: The knight should take blindfighting (I'd recommend it for the rogue as well, except you can't deal sneak attack damage if you've got any miss chance, so it's not really worth the feat). Second, if it is attached to your head, you don't have to roll against a miss chance for not being able to see it!

That is all.

The Bellmaker
2010-05-21, 11:23 AM
Hopefully, a 20-22 AC will help, along with a very nice AoO plan, but...stirges and darkmantles. Oh, for the old days of Piercers...

Critical
2010-05-21, 11:30 AM
All these guys need to do is get to level 6, get Leadership and get casters for themselves. YOU CAN DO IT!!! :smallbiggrin:

Escheton
2010-05-21, 11:36 AM
but how will the casters do trying to get to them?

the adventures of Cleric and Sorcerer

Dishwatat
2010-05-21, 12:02 PM
I have two tips for beating the first map of the dungeon: The knight should take blindfighting (I'd recommend it for the rogue as well, except you can't deal sneak attack damage if you've got any miss chance, so it's not really worth the feat). Second, if it is attached to your head, you don't have to roll against a miss chance for not being able to see it!

That is all.

While I appreciate the help, Knight and I want to do this fairly, so I would request no information on the dungeon. Suggestions for improving our character's are completely welcome though! Leadership is a must have, and I really want combat expertise for any sticky situations.

Murdim
2010-05-21, 12:55 PM
My friend and I started The World's Largest Dungeon with 2 characters. A Rogue and a Knight. Our DM thinks this is impossible, but we plan to prove him wrong. If you're interested in seeing half the average party size attempt to conquer a dungeon spanning character levels 1-20, stay tuned!
And not the easiest half, either. Good luck :smallwink:

If Knight is a tank/defender (that's PHB2 knight we're talking about, right ?) with an AoO-focused build, some spiked chain abuse might be in order - and Stand Still is an evidence. But of course, it would be hard to get the proficiency without spending a feat on it, dipping into some obscure PrC, or getting it for free by DM fiat - by far my favorite solution when it comes to exotic weapons. There's also those two funny little feats, one that gives you an AoO against enemies you flank that attack someone else, and another one that lets you ignore your Combat Expertise penalty to attacks rolls for your AoOs, but I think both are Dragon Magazine material...

I don't really know the details of the World's Largest Dungeon, but it would be fair to ask your DM to modify remove any obstacle that's too much dependant of magic for its resolution, at least until you reach level 6 and become absolutely obsolete get your spellcasting cohorts.

Also, if it doesn't work with only a Rogue and a Knight, it might be interesting to try it again as a Gestalt game. There's some low-powered combinations that doesn't really modify the character concept (much less so than most PrCs) while adding quite a lot of much-needed capabilities. Rogue//Ranger (full BAB, archery feats, favored enemy, ranger spells) and Knight//Fighter (fortitude save, bonus feats) comes immediately to mind.

Greenish
2010-05-21, 12:59 PM
If Knight is a tank/defender (that's PHB2 knight we're talking about, right ?) with an AoO-focused build, some spiked chain abuse might be in order - and Stand Still is an evidence. But of course, it would be hard to get the proficiency without spending a feat on it, dipping into some obscure PrC, or getting it for free by DM fiat - by far my favorite solution when it comes to exotic weapons.Spiked Chain is sometimes worth the feat, but often you'll do as well with a guisarme and armour spikes.

Tinydwarfman
2010-05-21, 01:06 PM
A two-man, low-op party trying to solo the WLD? Yeah, I'm not sure that's going to turn out so well. Pray your DM is the kind that bends the rules a bit. Or allows Gestalt.

Machiavellian
2010-05-21, 01:27 PM
Stab the rogue. Thats all I need to say

The Bellmaker
2010-05-21, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I'm definitely taking combat reflexes for my level three feat. Probably. Or I'll take Armour Mastery [Heavy], and finish that feat line. Hm.

Decisions, Decisions.

Dishwatat
2010-05-21, 08:28 PM
Stab the rogue. Thats all I need to say

Great, thanks for contributing. Really helpful.

I know it will be hard, but I think that's part of the fun. We're gonna prove that you don't NEED magic in an extensive game.

Optimystik
2010-05-21, 08:30 PM
Great, thanks for contributing. Really helpful.

It was, actually - chances are, the rogue will stab you!
Unless you are the rogue... in which case I'm watching you...

Dishwatat
2010-05-21, 08:44 PM
It was, actually - chances are, the rogue will stab you!
Unless you are the rogue... in which case I'm watching you...

Look at my signature.

Enix18
2010-05-21, 09:03 PM
Okay, Leadership is a no-no; I'm not willing to come up with an explanation for how you could possibly acquire fame and followers inside of a dungeon. And before you ask, no, you can not get Darkmantle Warrior 1 followers...

Honestly, you guys may be able to make it through the first map alive with some conservative and/or cunning tactics. The fact that you'll have to rely on natural healing, though, may make it take a lot longer than it should (after all, that's only 1 or 2 HP per day, assuming complete bed rest, right?). On that note, you will also probably want to avoid as much CON drain as possible...

I really am interested to see how far you guys get, but remember that that doesn't mean I'm going to go easy on you.

Dishwatat
2010-05-21, 09:25 PM
Okay, Leadership is a no-no; I'm not willing to come up with an explanation for how you could possibly acquire fame and followers inside of a dungeon. And before you ask, no, you can not get Darkmantle Warrior 1 followers...

Honestly, you guys may be able to make it through the first map alive with some conservative and/or cunning tactics. The fact that you'll have to rely on natural healing, though, may make it take a lot longer than it should (after all, that's only 1 or 2 HP per day, assuming complete bed rest, right?). On that note, you will also probably want to avoid as much CON drain as possible...

I really am interested to see how far you guys get, but remember that that doesn't mean I'm going to go easy on you.

I wouldn't have it any other way. We WILL do it though. Just you watch.

Zovc
2010-05-21, 09:28 PM
My friend and I started The World's Largest Dungeon with 2 characters. A Rogue and a Knight. Our DM thinks this is impossible, but we plan to prove him wrong. If you're interested in seeing half the average party size attempt to conquer a dungeon spanning character levels 1-20, stay tuned!

About eight darkmantles just TPK'd my gestalt group of 5. Good luck and Godspeed, my friend.

Murdim
2010-05-22, 03:35 AM
I really am interested to see how far you guys get, but remember that that doesn't mean I'm going to go easy on you.
Or in other words, you'll intentionally make the game as hard and frustrating as it can get, and restrict further the options of an already crippled party... just to (better) prove a point ? :smallannoyed:

Learnedguy
2010-05-22, 03:42 AM
Or in other words, you'll intentionally make the game as hard and frustrating as it can get, and restrict further the options of an already crippled party... just to (better) prove a point ? :smallannoyed:

No. He's going to honor their determination instead of babying them.

Not everyone likes easy-modo.

(Anyway, sounds like the campaign I'd want to participate in. Have fun guys.)

Zen Master
2010-05-22, 04:15 AM
Okay, Leadership is a no-no; I'm not willing to come up with an explanation for how you could possibly acquire fame and followers inside of a dungeon.

Um - far be it from me to try and tell you how to run your game. But supposing the two heroic adventurers leave the premises on a regular basis - to sell loot, buy wands of healing, and so on - and also tell their tale at the nearby inn, might that not spread word of their deeds?

Provided, that is, that the dungeon is near some sort of useful township.

Enix18
2010-05-22, 06:49 AM
Um - far be it from me to try and tell you how to run your game. But supposing the two heroic adventurers leave the premises on a regular basis - to sell loot, buy wands of healing, and so on - and also tell their tale at the nearby inn, might that not spread word of their deeds?

Provided, that is, that the dungeon is near some sort of useful township.

The thing is that once you enter the World's Largest Dungeon you can't actually leave until you reach the exit, which is in the lvl 20 area. Basically, you have to play the entire thing through without getting a chance to return to town for some down time. Thus, Leadership doesn't really make sense here, unless they're somehow gaining fame among the dungeon's denizens, most of which are evil monsters...

Escheton
2010-05-22, 06:52 AM
rumors of 2 outsiders killing their way through the dungeon might have a few critters thinking their survivalchances are higher if they kiss up too and join you. scum or trog cohort if there are any.

Human Paragon 3
2010-05-22, 01:12 PM
Or you could bump into/rescue your cohorts and acquire goblin/kobold followers.


Time for build advice!

Take it or leave it, but martial study is a good choice for Rogue and Knight. Grabbing a few of those healing maneuvers (for knight) and sneaky maneuvers (for rogue) might increase your survivability.

Or (DM), you could include some loot in the dungeon that would give them access to healing. Rogue can UMD up a wand of CLW, for instance.

Critical
2010-05-22, 02:50 PM
It was, actually - chances are, the rogue will stab you!
Unless you are the rogue... in which case I'm watching you...
In soviet Russia, you stab the Rogue!

On Leadership Topic: Aren't there any other adventurers in the dungeon? :smallconfused: When they'd see the amount of loot and magic items on someone else, they might join, you know. Also, they could be from PC's family or close friends, who decided to follow them into the dungeon. Maybe they could choose from the species that lives in the dungeon, perhaps? For those weak level 1-6 guys, definitely dungeon inhabitants. Goblin fanboys would be hilarious.

OR Undead Leadership, and problem's solved.

The Bellmaker
2010-05-22, 05:06 PM
Or maybe, when I hit level four I turn around and take control of all intelligent beings in the level one area, one at a time, and lead my glorious army to the level two area, and so on, and so forth...

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 05:43 PM
OR Undead Leadership, and problem's solved.Undead Leadership for rogue, thrallherd for knight.

Zen Master
2010-05-22, 07:01 PM
The thing is that once you enter the World's Largest Dungeon you can't actually leave until you reach the exit, which is in the lvl 20 area. Basically, you have to play the entire thing through without getting a chance to return to town for some down time. Thus, Leadership doesn't really make sense here, unless they're somehow gaining fame among the dungeon's denizens, most of which are evil monsters...

Ah .... well, you know. In principle.

=)

Pink
2010-05-22, 07:45 PM
Without spoiling too much, assuming Knight and Rogue also keep in mind that diplomacy is a valid option (and the DM keeps in mind and continues to allow it as an option as written in the book), in the first dungeon there are some encounters with named NPCs that could be persuaded to join their efforts to get out of the dungeon, because afterall, the enemies are stuck in the WLD as well. I recall one such NPC as an arcane caster, and another as a divine caster.

Also, it should be noted that experience split just between two characters should be pretty massive.

Greenish
2010-05-22, 08:00 PM
Without spoiling too much, assuming Knight and Rogue also keep in mind that diplomacy is a valid option (and the DM keeps in mind and continues to allow it as an option as written in the book)I hope you're not advising using Diplomacy rules as written. :smallamused:

Dishwatat
2010-05-22, 09:20 PM
I'm actually planning on playing a Rogue intelligently and SNEAKING. So that might help.

Pink
2010-05-22, 11:55 PM
I hope you're not advising using Diplomacy rules as written. :smallamused:

I think if you read the rest of my post you'll find that I'm more so talking about the strategy of creating allies rather than the rules. However in case that wasn't clear, no I am not advising diplomacy rules as written. However having some ranks in it to better facilitate attempts at such a strategy would probably not go amiss. Afterall, diplomacy really isn't a viable option if your characters suck at it.

The Bellmaker
2010-05-23, 12:05 AM
I don't know. I can kind of picture Knight, with his superior charisma, stumbling along in pidgin Orcish, quietly coached for a few minutes from Rogue, trying to make an untrained Diplomacy check.

"Me am think you work for me. We treat well for good services. You am be happy under me for long, long time. I is good person on top. Join. You think yes?" :smallwink:

And of course his terrible knowledge of the language turns it into almost an entire block of double entendres.

Ah, Knight...heheheh.

Doc Roc
2010-05-23, 12:09 AM
This is gonna be beautiful, silly, and messy. Subscribed.

I'll help when you rebuild.

Dishwatat
2010-05-28, 09:53 PM
Ok, we started. First thing Knight and I encounter? Wounded Orcs. I, having a high intelligence score and thus natural linguist, offered assistance in exchange for their help, while Knight waved his halberd around like an idiot, they refused repeatedly, so we slaughtered them, took their equipment, and chopped off a hand and some fingers for jewelry.
Knight suffered a small flesh wound, so we decided to rest the knight. We piled the corpses and equipment against several doors that were in the room we decided to rest in, which was shaped like the outline of a diamond. As Knight slept and I hid in the shadows, watching, I heard a noise. Quickly waking Knight I steadied my crossbow at the door. Out popped a reptilian head, I shot, suprising the creatrure and.... *roll* 20! Critical confirmation? *roll* 20!!! So... heavy crossbow 1d10... x3 crit...+1d6 sneak attack.... 37 DAMAGE AT FIRST LEVEL. I blew the kobold away obviously. So then a barghest appears and Knight turns it into his whipping boy, making it flee even after a bad will save roll. This is where we stopped for the day.
Awesome right?

Enix18
2010-05-28, 10:06 PM
'Twas a krenshar, not a barghest. The latter would have destroyed you and everyone you know, silly.

Now, I don't understand why everyone insists on brutally slaughtering the wounded orc in the first room. The first time I ran the dungeon, the party consisted of a Warforged Crusader, Human Artificer, and Human Healer. As soon as they heard the word "orcs" they charged in. The crusader reduced the first orc to a bloody mess with his greatsword, the artificer jumped on top of one and began stabbing it to death with his knife, and then the healer ran in and finished them off by impaling the last one with his spear! It was an insanely gory surprise round...

Dishwatat
2010-05-28, 10:11 PM
'Twas a krenshar, not a barghest. The latter would have destroyed you and everyone you know, silly.

Now, I don't understand why everyone insists on brutally slaughtering the wounded orc in the first room. The first time I ran the dungeon, the party consisted of a Warforged Crusader, Human Artificer, and Human Healer. As soon as they heard the word "orcs" they charged in. The crusader reduced the first orc to a bloody mess with his greatsword, the artificer jumped on top of one and began stabbing it to death with his knife, and then the healer ran in and finished them off by impaling the last one with his spear! It was an insanely gory surprise round...
I tried to convince them to let us heal them!

Jarveiyan
2010-05-29, 04:28 AM
Ok, we started. First thing Knight and I encounter? Wounded Orcs. I, having a high intelligence score and thus natural linguist, offered assistance in exchange for their help, while Knight waved his halberd around like an idiot, they refused repeatedly, so we slaughtered them, took their equipment, and chopped off a hand and some fingers for jewelry.
Knight suffered a small flesh wound, so we decided to rest the knight. We piled the corpses and equipment against several doors that were in the room we decided to rest in, which was shaped like the outline of a diamond. As Knight slept and I hid in the shadows, watching, I heard a noise. Quickly waking Knight I steadied my crossbow at the door. Out popped a reptilian head, I shot, suprising the creatrure and.... *roll* 20! Critical confirmation? *roll* 20!!! So... heavy crossbow 1d10... x3 crit...+1d6 sneak attack.... 37 DAMAGE AT FIRST LEVEL. I blew the kobold away obviously. So then a barghest appears and Knight turns it into his whipping boy, making it flee even after a bad will save roll. This is where we stopped for the day.
Awesome right?

A heavy crossbow is x2 crit... not x3.

The Bellmaker
2010-05-29, 10:22 AM
Meh. Potatoes, Potahtoes. Anyway, an AC 24 will sorta turn you into a walking tank, yeah. I should use my shield more, I guess. It's all about a balance between DPS and Tanking.

Maybe after I take Armour mastery, I'll take Shield Specialization...

Enix18
2010-05-29, 12:23 PM
Anyway, an AC 24 will sorta turn you into a walking tank, yeah.

Hey, Bellmaker, I was actually wondering where you got these feats of yours that make your AC so high. I thought I could trust you guys to make your characters without me having to watch over the process, but apparently I was wrong.

Firstly, as far as I know, Armor Focus is not a real feat. It isn't in any rulebooks that I can recall. I have seen a feat by the same name on the the interwebz, but I do not allow homebrewed material in my games unless I specifically approve of it. And I don't approve of a first level feat that increases your AC.

Secondly, you are completely wrong about how Armor Specialization works. The feat requires a BAB of +12, and it doesn't even increase your armor class. While there is a real Armor Specialization feat, I'm assuming you got your homebrewed version from some website as well, although through searching the internet the only homebrewed Armor Specialization feats I have been able to find still require a BAB of +4.

Ultimately, you are going to need to chose two new feats, unless you can show me the actual rulebook from which you drew your current feats.

I'm kinda annoyed that you thought you could get this past me...

Greenish
2010-05-29, 12:33 PM
And I don't approve of a first level feat that increases your AC.What, like Dodge or Combat Expertise or Improved Natural Armor or Mithral/Adamantine Body?

Siosilvar
2010-05-29, 12:41 PM
A heavy crossbow is x2 crit... not x3.

And even with a x3 crit, it'd be literally impossible to roll 37 damage.

1d10x3 + 1d6 is maximum 36.

Enix18
2010-05-29, 01:01 PM
What, like Dodge or Combat Expertise or Improved Natural Armor or Mithral/Adamantine Body?

Dodge provides a minor AC bonus against a single enemy, not against all enemies.

Combat Expertise involves trading offensive power for defensive power. Yes, you can increase your AC (by 1, at first level), but you diminish your chances of hitting the enemy. I have seen attack rolls fail because the attacker's BAB was reduced by feats that allow BAB trading.

Mithral/Adamantine body replace armor itself for warforged characters, rather than providing a stacking bonus for anyone. Any non-warforged can shell out the gold to get the same bonuses without using up a feat, and since warforged are already hindered by their healing issues I don't mind giving this to them. The first time I ran this dungeon, the Warforged player took adamantine body; he had 18 AC, and could still be hit by the monsters he encountered. Knight currently has a 24 AC, which is impossible for any of the monsters in this area to hit unless the are able to maneuver into flanking position, in which case their chances are still much less than those of hitting an 18 AC.

I am fine with all of these feats, but I am not fine with him getting something like +4 AC at first level unconditionally. None of those feats above provide anything remotely close to this.


And even with a x3 crit, it'd be literally impossible to roll 37 damage.

1d10x3 + 1d6 is maximum 36.

I know his calculations were wrong, but since it was a kobold with 3 HP I didn't bother arguing over it. I'm not sure about rogue, but knight is the rules-lawyery type who will argue about/spend minutes looking up anything if you give him an excuse.

The Bellmaker
2010-05-29, 07:32 PM
You're actually the one who provided me with the rulebook, friend. Feats, it's called. Looking at the feats themselves, Neither Armour Focus[Heavy], nor Armour Specialization[Heavy], require anything like BAB +12. I'll show you next time we have a session. If you still want me to change feats then, so be it.

I would also like to note that AC 24 only applies when fighting defensively. And when using axe and shield, rather than halberd. Considering that the -4 penalty from fighting defensively completely negates all of my to-hit bonuses, it isn't so unreasonable. Also, remember, everything always succeeds on a natural twenty. Giving all creatures a base 5% chance of hitting me, regardless of my AC at the time.

I take issue with the 'rules-lawyer' label, but I'm kinda making your point right now anyway.

EDIT: Also, I didn't think I could 'get it past you'. As far as I knew, they were perfectly legitimate feats from books we both have. Like I said, if, after you review the book, you still decide that they are invalid, I will certainly pick new ones.

Raz_Fox
2010-05-29, 07:51 PM
Yay for trust. It just warms the ol' heart to see the DM and players trusting each other to make an entertaining game instead of suspecting each other and throwing around accusations. This is the base of all roleplaying games, right here, mutual trust.

Oh, wait. Sorry, wrong thread obviously. Carry on. Gosh, the internet's turning me into a snarky cynic. Who woulda thought?

Dishwatat
2010-05-29, 08:13 PM
And even with a x3 crit, it'd be literally impossible to roll 37 damage.

1d10x3 + 1d6 is maximum 36.

+1 for.... Knight what was the +1 for? I remember there was a reason....

Dishwatat
2010-05-29, 08:17 PM
I know his calculations were wrong, but since it was a kobold with 3 HP I didn't bother arguing over it. I'm not sure about rogue, but knight is the rules-lawyery type who will argue about/spend minutes looking up anything if you give him an excuse.

I actually said x2 but then Knight corrected me... I think? I don't know. I remember I was unsure myself and got caught up in the moment.
Did you have any problem with my character by the way?

The Bellmaker
2010-05-29, 08:39 PM
I actually said x2 but then Knight corrected me... I think? I don't know. I remember I was unsure myself and got caught up in the moment.
Did you have any problem with my character by the way?

Hey, hey, don't drag me into this. I had nothing to do with it. And that +1 was for Point Blank Shot.

Dishwatat
2010-05-29, 09:03 PM
Hey, hey, don't drag me into this. I had nothing to do with it. And that +1 was for Point Blank Shot.

Thank you. It might not have been you, if so I apologize.

Enix18
2010-05-29, 09:15 PM
You're actually the one who provided me with the rulebook, friend. Feats, it's called. Looking at the feats themselves, Neither Armour Focus[Heavy], nor Armour Specialization[Heavy], require anything like BAB +12. I'll show you next time we have a session. If you still want me to change feats then, so be it.

Oh, God, not Feats! I've never been quite sure about the level of playtesting done on that book, but... I didn't say it wasn't allowed, so I guess I'll let your feat selection stand. I apologize for thinking you were using some weird homebrew feats, but as far as I knew the only feats by those names were ones that I had seen on teh interwebz (and Armor Specialization from PHB II, which requires +12 BAB).

Myatar_Panwar
2010-05-29, 09:17 PM
Ha, feats.... I remember that book.

Good times