Grrr

[Eon]

I'll try and make this quick...
German is currently one of my favorite classes this semester, yet I dread going there everyday. That's not a mystery though. I sit in the room away from any acquantinces, my friends all ended up taking german another hour. Some examples of why I dislike my class:

They really don't do their work. They sit and do nothing and then try to get the answers from me, and if I don't, try and make fun of me, most notably lies concerning my intellect or sexuality.

They also don't know too much about german, some of their quotes are
A) Du ist blod (can't find the umlaut :smalleek:) for those that don't know german, that translates to "you is dumb"
B) pathetic jokes using the wrong words

any tips on how to handle this.

[Don Julio Anejo]

They really don't do their work. They sit and do nothing and then try to get the answers from me, and if I don't, try and make fun of me, most notably lies concerning my intellect or sexuality.

any tips on how to handle this.
How about.. uhm.. making fun of them, most notably using lies about their intellect or sexuality? :smallwink:

And since you know German and many of them don't, it may work even better, since you can make fun of them in German.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Give them all the wrong answers.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

You could try owning them once exams come around. Perhaps you could merely not give them the answers they seek, thus making them either work or fail?

[Mauve Shirt]

The guys in my high school German class were idiots too! This one guy only ever used the word "Bleistift" when asked a question. And consistently got the gender wrong!
Really the only thing to do is mock them.

[pinwiz]

They really don't do their work. They sit and do nothing and then try to get the answers from me, and if I don't, try and make fun of me, most notably lies concerning my intellect or sexuality.

If these are just aquantances, ignore them. It's rather indicitave that they're degrading your intelligence when they're asking you for help. If they're your friends.... get better friends, or don't take it as seriously. If they're failing, let them fail.

[Kobold-Bard]

Throwing open scissors at people used to work for me*.

Seriously though, just try and ignore it. Words hurt but they're just words. When these people fail the class and you don't it'll make you very happy.

*This course of action is not recommended as it will result in suspension and some asshat's brother throwing a brick at you.

[pinwiz]

Throwing open scissors at people used to work for me*.

*This course of action is not recommended as it WILL result in suspension and some asshat's brother throwing a brick at you.

that sounds like an oddly specific piece of advice... :smalltongue:

[Kobold-Bard]

that sounds like an oddly specific piece of advice... :smalltongue:

No that's just some general advice that totally never happened..... ¬¬

[Cobalt]

How about.. uhm.. making fun of them, most notably using lies about their intellect or sexuality? :smallwink:

From what I can tell, it doesn't seem like they'd be lies (You is dumb? Really?). At least about their intelligence, anyway.

I have similar problems in my German class, but the year ends next week so I could give a toss anymore about my own problems in that regard. Sorry I have no advice, though.

[Crimmy]

Give them all the wrong answers.

This.


You could try owning them once exams come around. Perhaps you could merely not give them the answers they seek, thus making them either work or fail?

And that.

I have the very same problem in English class, in which nobody but my best friend and me know English, and how to use it correctly.

People start asking, and if you don't say the answer, they mock.

So, my answer for you is do what those two said.

[Eon]

So give them wrong answers and mock them... okay!
*goes to find a fork just in case*

@Pinwiz These people aren't my friends. I meant the other people in the class.

[Flickerdart]

Feed them quotes from (in)famous historical German texts that they wouldn't be familiar with due to inherent dumbness.

[Eldonauran]

Same thing happened to me in my Spanish class. I considered responding in kind but decided not to stoop to their level. Might not seem like a satisfying option at the moment but when you look back, you'll be glad you refrained from doing so. I am.

I may have ... slipped them a few incorrect answers but, hey, I'm human too.

[Xzeno]

Being the boring type, I would recommend... understanding.

Don't insult them, don't ignore them, don't resent them (above all, don't resent them). Talk to them. Befriend them. Tell them they should straighten up and fly right, sure, but try to be neutral. Tell them how you feel about this, and ask them to stop picking on you.

You probably aren't going to get them to be better students. Oh well. Don't hate them for it. Don't think of them as stupid. Just think of them as people, and treat them as such. Hope they do the same for you.

[Crimmy]

Then again, like all living beings, you have to learn from your mistakes, right?
He has learnt that they will not work, and will manipulate him.

Therefore, the next logical step is that they realize it's a mistake to try and do such a thing. By NOT telling them.

[Shas aia Toriia]

If they really bug you, I support making fun of them in German.
Or just give them half-answers or hints to the answers - enough to get them started but not really cheating.

Besides, if they rely on you for the answers, they'll get screwed over in exams, so don't worry too much.

[Eon]

Considering we are starting our finals... It might become interesting...

[The Dark Fiddler]

How about.. uhm.. making fun of them, most notably using lies about their intellect or sexuality? :smallwink:

I don't think calling them smart will solve anything. :smalltongue:

[Maximum Zersk]

Being the boring type, I would recommend... understanding.

Don't insult them, don't ignore them, don't resent them (above all, don't resent them). Talk to them. Befriend them. Tell them they should straighten up and fly right, sure, but try to be neutral. Tell them how you feel about this, and ask them to stop picking on you.

You probably aren't going to get them to be better students. Oh well. Don't hate them for it. Don't think of them as stupid. Just think of them as people, and treat them as such. Hope they do the same for you.

That'll only make things worse, most likely. Depending on whether he's in anything below Post-secondary or not.

[mucat]

If you dread going to class because these folks are there, you're allowing them far too much importance. They're not your friends, and they don't sound like the sort of people you would want as friends. They're not co-workers who you have to have a working relationship with in order to get your mutual work done. They're semi-strangers who sit in a room with you for an hour a day, and nothing they say or do has to matter unless you decide it should.

The satisfaction they get from bugging you can only come because they know it gets under your skin. Treat them with indifference, and they won't have any fun.

I know the advice sounds a little cold and mean-spirited; it sounds that way to me too as I type it. As someone else said, you could befriend them instead. But if you do befriend them, and they turn around a treat someone else the way they're now treating you, then you would have to either confront them and risk the new friendship, or be complicit in their behavior by your silence. Before you decide to make friends with someone, be sure they're not the sort of person you'd be ashamed to call a friend. (:belkar:)

[Mando Knight]

My senior-year English teacher was fond of this German phrase, preferably spoken as if you were either scolding someone or a nasty drill sergeant:
Ein Stück Papier, schnell! (A piece of paper, quickly/immediately!)

[Yarram]

I'm confused by most of the advice in this thread, which either says "Fight them" or "Get revenge."
...

[pinwiz]

My senior-year English teacher was fond of this German phrase, preferably spoken as if you were either scolding someone or a nasty drill sergeant:
Ein Stück Papier, schnell! (A piece of paper, quickly/immediately!)

My personal favorite is "du bist eine deusch kartoffel" (note that i haven't spoken german in like three years, so apologies if it's not quite right, but still, shower potato).

[Xzeno]

Before you decide to make friends with someone, be sure they're not the sort of person you'd be ashamed to call a friend. (:belkar:)

I don't think their worth as friends can be judged based on their actions here. We can assume they are less easy to befriend, and perhaps less susceptible to friendship, but they are, once again, just people. Yes, they tease and insult you. That's not good. They ought to stop that. I wonder why they don't.

Maybe you won't end up befriending them, but try to understand them: Do they know what it feels like to be teased like that? I'm sure they do. I'd bet they are just being inconsiderate. Do you* know what it feels like to be written off as a simple-minded underachiever just because you don't put much effort into a language class? I'm sure it hurts.

So please, Bandil, don't resent them for not being good students. Don't think that this is all they are. Know that they have their reasons for doing what they do, and that they are people outside your class. What I mean to say is: Give them a chance. You'll thank me later.

*Not necessarily Mucat or the OP.

[Maximum Zersk]

They ought to stop that. I wonder why they don't.


Being school-students, possibly? :smalltongue:


Maybe you won't end up befriending them, but try to understand them: Do they know what it feels like to be teased like that? I'm sure they do. I'd bet they are just being inconsiderate. Do you* know what it feels like to be written off as a simple-minded underachiever just because you don't put much effort into a language class? I'm sure it hurts.


Wait a sec. So, even though they're not putting any effort, that doesn't mean they're not putting any effort?

:smallconfused:

[742]

if they abuse a stranger when you refuse to put yourself in danger to help them cheat then they are unlikely to be friend material unless ive completely misunderstood the concept of friendship; totally possible. your not in a position to explain to them and fix the situation without hurting anyone and those do not deserve mercy. my recommendation would be revenge and/or a show of force; at least if you havent seen the teacher about it yet. seeing the teacher seriously cripples your ability to be evil and never show weakness when surrounded by predators.

teach them german-but do it wrong (not too wrong, more flies with honey than vinegar as they say-and pretend to be pitiful and lonely, just show it if your not pretending), replace the word for "you" with "my *parent of your choice*" and when they notice that theyre failing anyway tell them "thats what you get for free dumbass" if they offer to pay you accept-keep teaching them wrong and take their money(but say something like "you really should learn it from the teacher. thats the best way" so that when they get pissed and bring in authorities you come up as having some sense of half hearted guilt-honor which people tend to go a little crazy for), or force them into situations that with just a hint of tweaking will be humiliating; tweaking you could easily provide. or just information "sure ill help; if you tell me the name of your first pet" to try and guess their passwords and log into their accounts on social networking sites and let wackiness ensue. i dont think its illegal if they give you the password(checking might be smart). dont do all of these of course; keep it small enough that you can deny it.

but then i get kinda vicious and obsessive when groups of people turn on me and turn out to be total bastards or when anyone is targeted for abuse because theyre smart. this might be a little further than your willing to go. but anything that hurts them and they cant go to an authority figure with is good. doubly so if they cant trace it back to you until they are seriously ****ed and turned against each other.

[Umael]

I disagree with all of you.

Do not befriend them in an attempt to understand them. Friendship should be based on trust and mutual respect - and they do not respect you.

Do not mock them or give them wrong answers. You are proving that they can get a reaction out of you.

Do not ignore them - not unless you have a lot of patience. Ignoring is a tactic best done early to be successful.

Instead - tell them to stop it. If you are up to it, do it loudly and publicly. Tell them that you will NOT give them the answers and that you are tired of them asking for the answers and then playing immature games when you refuse. If you are brave enough, and you are still doing this publicly (i.e., you stood up in the classroom and decried them), mention that you actually enjoy the class, except for their crude attempts at peer pressure, bullying, and general juvenile behavior. Publicly or not, let the teacher know that they are a problem and they need to stop it, immediately.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I disagree with all of you.

Do not befriend them in an attempt to understand them. Friendship should be based on trust and mutual respect - and they do not respect you.

Do not mock them or give them wrong answers. You are proving that they can get a reaction out of you.

Do not ignore them - not unless you have a lot of patience. Ignoring is a tactic best done early to be successful.

Instead - tell them to stop it. If you are up to it, do it loudly and publicly. Tell them that you will NOT give them the answers and that you are tired of them asking for the answers and then playing immature games when you refuse. If you are brave enough, and you are still doing this publicly (i.e., you stood up in the classroom and decried them), mention that you actually enjoy the class, except for their crude attempts at peer pressure, bullying, and general juvenile behavior. Publicly or not, let the teacher know that they are a problem and they need to stop it, immediately.
See, here's the thing. What you're saying is a reaction. And a really bad one at that - if there's any bullying going on (btw, there isn't as far as I can tell in the current situation), purposely ignoring someone only makes them try that much harder, just to see how much you can last.

Loudly and publicly telling someone to stop it... Imagine a hypothetical situation: three big dudes want to beat you up for whatever reason (let's say, they're having a bad day and want to take it out on someone). How exactly does this work?
- "Sirs, you are gentlemen and scholars, I beseech thee - settle it in a civilized manner, do not resort to primitive show of force!"
Or this version:
- "I don't want to get beat up because it will hurt my feelings!"

See, here's the problem. Bullies don't give a crap about you, what you want or how you feel. Telling them you don't want to be treated badly will... Not do anything. If they cared about your feelings, they wouldn't bully you in the first place. Making them aware that they're pissing you off won't make them care.

However, this isn't what's happening in this situation. Here it's simply people being... well, people. Chances are the OP partially started the trend in the first place by first helping one person, which eventually lead to helping everyone. I've been on both sides of the problem - I've both helped everyone (sometimes to my own doom since I ended up not having enough time to do my own stuff) and I've asked/nagged/charmed for help from people before. If there is one person who knows his stuff, who everyone knows knows his stuff and who helps everyone, it's a natural reaction to ask that person and not someone else, who may not have any or all of the above features.

@ the OP:
If you want it to stop, then... Stop. Don't help, but not outright refuse in the form of "I can't help you because you're stupid (or annoying or don't do your own work)" but rather make up an excuse not to be able to help them, like "I'm not done myself yet." Or just say "Okay, give me, uhm, a minute, I need to check a dictionary." Then take 5. It'll send them a message that you won't help anymore without being confrontational.

Also, understanding the other people does help. From my point of view it seems you're not only angry at them because they've been nagging and making fun of you, but also because you think they're stupid and they deserve to do badly in the class only because of that. Well, it's not true.

[Eldan]

My personal favorite is "du bist eine deusch kartoffel" (note that i haven't spoken german in like three years, so apologies if it's not quite right, but still, shower potato).

Not to disappoint you... but even if you correct it (Du bist eine Duschkartoffel), that phrase seems to make no sense whatsoever.

[Tyrandar]

Since it sounds like you're in college, you could just... stop going to your current, dumb-person filled German class and hang out with your friends.

... Am I the only one that goes to an extremely huge state university?:smallfrown:

[Eon]

Since it sounds like you're in college, you could just... stop going to your current, dumb-person filled German class and hang out with your friends.

... Am I the only one that goes to an extremely huge state university?:smallfrown:

I have 3 weeks and then I go to the high school... :smalltongue:That seems to mean most of the befriend/ask to stop politely ideas have very little chance of sucess.

I'm younger than you think :smallsmile:

[Grey Paladin]

I agree with Umael. If you wish them to stop being childish pricks, tell them off as an adult.


I'm confused by most of the advice in this thread, which either says "Fight them" or "Get revenge."
...

People who never got their own, nor over it, tend to project their revenge fantasies unto others.

[KilltheToy]

Not to disappoint you... but even if you correct it (Du bist eine Duschkartoffel), that phrase seems to make no sense whatsoever.

It doesn't have to.

Personally, I'd say you should either ignore them. Give them some nonsense if they start pressing you.

Or, if you want to make a profit, charge them a dollar for every answer you give. Make them pay before you talk. :smallamused:

[Xzeno]

Wait a sec. So, even though they're not putting any effort, that doesn't mean they're not putting any effort?

:smallconfused:

Yeah, you've got it. Exactly right. The thing of it is, it's German. I don't know how it works for you or Bandil, but when I was a wide-eyed youth, we had to take a language. It was mandatory.

Now, I knew this one kid. Let's call him or her... Zxeno. This kid took a mandatory language class, and he/she hated it. Consequently, he/she put only enough effort into the class to pass. In retrospect, this was probably a bad move on his/her part, but what's done is done. Zxeno would, of course, never insult someone for doing well, but he/she might have asked for answers occasionally.

At one point, I'm not exactly sure how, I realized: "Hey, these kids probably think I'm a real jerk." After all, I only saw them at this language class. They had no reason to assume I was anything but a slacker. But I was anything but a slacker. I was an otherwise hard working overachiever who didn't really like his/her language class. I talked to them. They talked to me. We learned. We got along. I even did better in the class after that.

As you see, I can relate to the OP because of been on the opposite side of the coin. I hope no one here thinks any worse of me because I didn't do well in a language class. Similarly, don't be so quick to write these kids off as bad people.

The teasing thing really undermines my point, I will admit. That's a lot harder to forgive, and is significantly different from my situation. Still, don't try to get revenge or anything. Do at least try to be civil with them. Try to understand them. Try to give them a chance. If that doesn't work, at least you tried, and that's all that can be reasonably expected.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Not to disappoint you... but even if you correct it (Du bist eine Duschkartoffel), that phrase seems to make no sense whatsoever.
Wait, is it supposed to be "You are a German potato" or "You are a shower potato"?
(I don't know what a Duschkartoffel is; I can only link it to duschen, meaning 'to shower' :smalltongue:)

[Tyrandar]

I have 3 weeks and then I go to the high school... :smalltongue:That seems to mean most of the befriend/ask to stop politely ideas have very little chance of sucess.

I'm younger than you think :smallsmile:

Gah, I'm Murikan, so whenever I hear "semester," I think college. :smalltongue:

[mucat]

Yeah, you've got it. Exactly right. The thing of it is, it's German. I don't know how it works for you or Bandil, but when I was a wide-eyed youth, we had to take a language. It was mandatory.

Now, I knew this one kid. Let's call him or her... Zxeno. This kid took a mandatory language class, and he/she hated it. Consequently, he/she put only enough effort into the class to pass. In retrospect, this was probably a bad move on his/her part, but what's done is done. Zxeno would, of course, never insult someone for doing well, but he/she might have asked for answers occasionally.

At one point, I'm not exactly sure how, I realized: "Hey, these kids probably think I'm a real jerk." After all, I only saw them at this language class. They had no reason to assume I was anything but a slacker. But I was anything but a slacker. I was an otherwise hard working overachiever who didn't really like his/her language class. I talked to them. They talked to me. We learned. We got along. I even did better in the class after that.

As you see, I can relate to the OP because of been on the opposite side of the coin. I hope no one here thinks any worse of me because I didn't do well in a language class. Similarly, don't be so quick to write these kids off as bad people.

The teasing thing really undermines my point, I will admit. That's a lot harder to forgive, and is significantly different from my situation. Still, don't try to get revenge or anything. Do at least try to be civil with them. Try to understand them. Try to give them a chance. If that doesn't work, at least you tried, and that's all that can be reasonably expected.

Xzeno, I don't think anyone was condemning these people because they slack off in German class. A burning drive to learn new languages, while a good thing, is not high on the list of requirements to be a decent human being.

Treating other people with respect, though, is, and that's where the folks Bandil is talking about seem to fall short of the mark. (Of course, we've only heard one side of the story. Bandil, you're not slandering them unfairly, are ya?)

And this is why I didn't advise him to make friends with them. They'll still be the same people as before, looking for someone they perceive as weak enough to pick on, but now they'll expect Bandil to join in on their side. So either the friendship will be a short-lived one, or it will require him to do things he'll be ashamed of later.

Of course, there's the possibility that by giving them a chance, he'll help them change themselves for the better. And hey, it could happen. But going into any relationship -- friendship, romantic, or professional -- with the idea that "it will work great, as soon as I change them completely", is always a bad idea. If someone actually wants to become a better person, offer them your full support, even if they've treated you badly in the past. But don't expect that they will change because you want them to.

[Umael]

See, here's the thing. What you're saying is a reaction. And a really bad one at that

The first part is true, the second seems to be more your interpretation. Read on.



- if there's any bullying going on (btw, there isn't as far as I can tell in the current situation), purposely ignoring someone only makes them try that much harder, just to see how much you can last.

What they are doing is a form of bullying.



Loudly and publicly telling someone to stop it... Imagine a hypothetical situation:

1) That situation and the OP's situation are different, even if both of them are considered a form of bullying.
2) You are missing something very important from your analysis - the teacher. Having the teacher be aware that you feel harassed and threatened and are fed-up tells the teacher to get involved. In your example, it is like having three big dudes making threatening moves towards you and you telling the nearby cop.



See, here's the problem. Bullies don't give a crap about you, what you want or how you feel. Telling them you don't want to be treated badly will... Not do anything.

You mistake the intent of telling them off. It is not a "think about my feeling!" but a "I declare you in the wrong and will stand up for myself - you will be punished for your actions."



However, this isn't what's happening in this situation. Here it's simply people being... well, people. Chances are the OP partially started the trend in the first place by first helping one person, which eventually lead to helping everyone.

That might be. The OP might have helped others before, we don't know the full story.

But these individuals have gone from requesting the OP help them to acting as if they are entitled to this help, including retaliating if this help is refused.



I've been on both sides of the problem -

To the point where you have been harassed or harassed others through inappropriate comments?

This is not a matter of helping or deciding not to help. This is a matter that the OP feels pressured to help because if he does not he will face a hostile learning environment - and that IS a form of bullying.

One more thing - why make a public scene? Why not just tell the teacher and forego the confrontation?

Because the confrontation does two things which I believe are very important. One, it tells everyone in the area that you will stand up for yourself - "Don't Tread On Me." Two, it re-enforces a positive self-image because you know you are capable of handling yourself.

[Eon]

(Of course, we've only heard one side of the story. Bandil, you're not slandering them unfairly, are ya?)



Of course not :smalltongue:

@Tyrander Hehehe

[Mc. Lovin']

I'll try and make this quick...
German is currently one of my favorite classes this semester, yet I dread going there everyday. That's not a mystery though. I sit in the room away from any acquantinces, my friends all ended up taking german another hour. Some examples of why I dislike my class:

They really don't do their work. They sit and do nothing and then try to get the answers from me, and if I don't, try and make fun of me, most notably lies concerning my intellect or sexuality.

They also don't know too much about german, some of their quotes are
A) Du ist blod (can't find the umlaut :smalleek:) for those that don't know german, that translates to "you is dumb"
B) pathetic jokes using the wrong words

any tips on how to handle this.

Honestly, don't be so up tight about helping them out with their german, you'll be helping them so they'll like you, stop taking the piss out of you, and you'll make friends in that lesson. Yay!

[pinwiz]

Not to disappoint you... but even if you correct it (Du bist eine Duschkartoffel), that phrase seems to make no sense whatsoever.

It was never intended to make sense, the intention of the statement is to cause confusion on the part of the person being called it. And from what it sounds like, it succeeded... :smallcool:

[Pyrian]

...you'll be helping them so they'll like you, stop taking the piss out of you, and you'll make friends in that lesson. Yay!Right, 'cause it's so much "better" when your friends are obnoxious bullies. Better to just ignore them. :smalltongue:

[Mauther]

The traditional German response for this is to seize their Sudetenland. If that's not an option it can be fun to tutor them badly. Somewhere out there Chris K. still thinks he knows how to ask for the police in Japanese while he's really just asking for the time. Really though, if there's only 3 weeks left, just ignore them. If you have to verbally confront them, just wait for one of them to whisper a question then loudly refuse to have sex with them (thank you Adam Sandler).

[Mc. Lovin']

Right, 'cause it's so much "better" when your friends are obnoxious bullies. Better to just ignore them. :smalltongue:

But by that point they'll be lovely friends to you and not obnoxious bullies, right? :smallwink:

[mucat]

But by that point they'll be lovely friends to you and not obnoxious bullies, right? :smallwink:
They'll be obnoxious bullies to someone else. Not the kind of people you want to claim as friends.

[Eon]

It was never intended to make sense, the intention of the statement is to cause confusion on the part of the person being called it. And from what it sounds like, it succeeded... :smallcool:

... How would one pronounce that? I like random phrases. My brother's friends taught me how to say spiral staircase, no clue on the spelling though..:smalleek:

[Maximum Zersk]

... How would one pronounce that? I like random phrases. My brother's friends taught me how to say spiral staircase, no clue on the spelling though..:smalleek:

Du bist eine Duschkartoffel? That would be.. let's see here.

Doo bist eye-ne Dooshkart-oh-fel.

[pinwiz]

Du bist eine Duschkartoffel? That would be.. let's see here.

Doo bist eye-ne Dooshkart-oh-fel.

That would be right, unless my German teacher lied to me for 3 years.... :smalltongue:

[PersonMan]

That would be right, unless my German teacher lied to me for 3 years.... :smalltongue:

Du ist vertsehe Deutsch sagen? If so, then probably.

Also, I agree with the 'give them wrong answers', calling them gibberish is always fun. "Be quiet, you Kartoffelpuffer!" (Potato pancake). Saying that they can go "Friss hau, ueber eine Karotte!" is also fun. (Eat[like an animal] strike/hit, over a carrot!)

[Cobalt]

Heh heh, in my German class, a running joke we've got is that, whenever someone says some gibberish in German, you spaz out for a sec with your arms and legs like Prof. Kleiner from Garrymon. It's pretty funny, actually, and combined with all the inside jokes my German class has given me, I sometimes forget that I'm learning a language in there. Most people know when to stop joking, though. Some don't. Ends up with situations kinda like this, with people not knowing the answers and whispering for help to everyone around them.

[Eon]

Du bist eine Duschkartoffel? That would be.. let's see here.

Doo bist eye-ne Dooshkart-oh-fel.

Danke, Herr Zersk. Du bist sehr intelligent.

[Maximum Zersk]

Danke, Herr Zersk. Du bist sehr intelligent.

Your Welcome. :smalltongue: