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Ekkoe
2010-05-19, 04:39 PM
Hello,

So I have a character, a psychic warrior, who I want to give a hard hit in leap attacks. I considered both the feats "Battle Jump" (Unapproachable East (and unapproachable book for that matter)) and "Leap Attack" (CAdv).

Briefly, these are the feats:
Battle Jump (no requirements)
You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent. For example, a ledge 10 feet above the floor of a cavern would suffice for jumping on a Medium-sized creature, while a ledge 15 feet high is required for a jumping on a Large creature. You can't jump from more than 30 feet above your opponent, nor can you effectively battle jump while under the influence of a fly or levitate spell or effect, as you have to hurl yourself down on your foe.

If you hit, you can choose either to deal double damage with a melee weapon or natural attack or to attempt a trip attack. You are treated as one size category larger than normal if you try to trip your opponent with the battle jump. After you attack, you take falling damage as normal for the distance you jumped. You are entitled to a Jump check (DC 15) to take less damage, as if you had fallen 10 feet less than you actually did. If you fail this Jump check, you fall prone 5 feet from your opponent.

You can also use Battle Jump to begin a grapple attempt instead of making a normal attack. If you do, you are treated as one size category larger than normal for the first grapple check following the battle jump.

Leap Attack (Jump 8 ranks, Power Attack (have it))
You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, [your extra damage from the Power Attack feat is increased by 100%]. (errata'd, means +4 per -1 for two-handed weapons)

Other than this my stats are
20
16
15
10
15
8

I have Furious Charge, so thats +4 / -2 for charges and I'm getting Up The Walls to meet the requirements for these feats more easily. I'm planning on getting Shock Trooper after, which I know combines with either one.

I have the powers Expansion, Vigor and Mighty Spring (CP).

Now some obvious questions arise, which I hope you can help me with.

First and most importantly: Can the two feats be combined? If I can use up the walls to jump from a height of (my opponents height +5) I meet Battle Jump. If I do this from a distance of at least 10 feet, I meet Leap Attack.
Does this mean I can in fact get, out of a single jump attack (when I have 5 BAB):
-2 AC
-1 Attack
+20 damage
double damage
And is the +20 not also doubled? (power attack doesn't seem to mention if it doubles on crits, though I doubt it)

Question two concerns only Battle Jump: What if I crit and choose to double the damage? Is it tripled or would it not stack?

Okay the last question is in case Battle Jump and Leap Attack don't combine, which one is preferable? Or is the combination still worth the feat? If both are chosen, which one should be the primary and which the alternative?

So once more the questions :P
- Does damage from Power Attack double from a critical hit?
- Do Battle Jump and Leap Attack combine?
- If yes: does the Power Attack damage double from Battle Jump?
- Does the double damage from Battle Jump stack with normal crits?
- If yes: does the damage from Power Attack triple?
- Which is better, if they do not combine? Battle Jump or Leap Attack?
- Are they worth taking both in case one fails?

Hope you can help and I hope I've made my problems clear :P Cheers!

~Ekkoe

Greenish
2010-05-19, 04:48 PM
First and most importantly: Can the two feats be combined?Yes, it should work, as far as I can tell. Consult your DM though.
(power attack doesn't seem to mention if it doubles on crits, though I doubt it)Extra damage dice are not multiplied, but constant is. So yes, PA damage is subject to multipliers.

Question two concerns only Battle Jump: What if I crit and choose to double the damage? Is it tripled or would it not stack?Normal stacking, ie. with x2 weapon and battle jump your crit would be x3.

Okay the last question is in case Battle Jump and Leap Attack don't combine, which one is preferable?Leap Attack offers better multipliers, and should be easier to pull off.

Reynard
2010-05-19, 04:56 PM
So once more the questions :P
- Does damage from Power Attack double from a critical hit?Yes. Or triple/quadruple if its a x3 or x4 weapon.

- Do Battle Jump and Leap Attack combine?If you jump from ten feet away and 5 feet above your target, I don't see why it wouldn't.

- If yes: does the Power Attack damage double from Battle Jump?Yes.

- Does the double damage from Battle Jump stack with normal crits?
- If yes: does the damage from Power Attack triple?
Yes. D&D maths is a bit broken when it comes to crits, but basically, once you've applied the first modifier (x2 or whatever), you just add more copies of the base damage, rather than multiplying the total.
E.G: A longsword (x2 crit) used with this tactic, upon scoring a crit would be:
(Base Damage + Power Attack x 2) + (Base Damage + Power Attack)

Olo Demonsbane
2010-05-19, 07:53 PM
Greenish is right on all accounts, but I disagree that Battle Jump is weaker. Even though it may be harder to set up, it doubles ALL of your damage, not just your power attack damage.

PId6
2010-05-19, 08:10 PM
Greenish is right on all accounts, but I disagree that Battle Jump is weaker. Even though it may be harder to set up, it doubles ALL of your damage, not just your power attack damage.
And it's certainly not weaker when combined with Shadow Pounce. :smalltongue:

Greenish
2010-05-19, 08:18 PM
I disagree that Battle Jump is weaker. Even though it may be harder to set up, it doubles ALL of your damage, not just your power attack damage.Hmm, Leap Attack triples your PA damage, but then psywarr doesn't have full BAB (and has Expansion to improve base damage).

You can crank out your calculator, try to spy your DM's notes to see which one would see more use or just take them both. :smallcool:

[Edit]:
And it's certainly not weaker when combined with Shadow Pounce. :smalltongue:Definitely. If ToB is an option, Swordsage dip would be pretty awesome. Wis to AC in light armour, weapon focus for a handful of weapons, stance and a few maneuvers.

true_shinken
2010-05-19, 08:42 PM
Battle Jump is taer-only regional feat.
You can only take it as a taer (or someone raised among taers, good luck getting that past a DM) at level 1.

Ekkoe
2010-05-20, 04:41 PM
Battle Jump is taer-only regional feat.
You can only take it as a taer (or someone raised among taers, good luck getting that past a DM) at level 1.

Already did that part :P I never meant to make a character this sick, just a nice leaper that's all over the place and hits hard. Apparently I've now created the hardest hitting hero I ever made.

I'll consider Swordsage but really, I think what I have right here is already way to good not to get nerfed by the DM. If I also dip I just make myself look more and more like a powerplayer :P

Anyways, thanks guys. Huge help. So I basically just accidentally created a character that, with his falchion, can at the meager cost of -1 attack and -2 AC at level 7 deal 4d4+14+40 damage when the requirements are met? This makes me doubt if expansion is worth it: -1 attack and -2 total AC seems like a bad trade for +2 str and a dice increase... Precognition, Offensive seems better, no?

imperialspectre
2010-05-20, 05:18 PM
Expansion also kicks up your base weapon damage and increases your reach. Increased reach is useful for not being a one-trick pony.

Still, Offensive Precog is probably a bit better. Especially if you can dump that entire attack bonus into Power Attack.