Manning a Dreadnought

[PersonMan]

What class of Dreadnought would be the most useful and easy for a small number of people to take control of and use? Assume the ship is fully stocked with ammunition, supplies and the like.

This group wants to take the dreadnought and use it to barrage and destroy a small group of unarmored wooden ships that have shown up near the coast carrying strange invaders.

I'll add more tomorrow before/after school.

[Lycan 01]

Y'know, there's a book series called "Destroyermen" about a Dreadnaught that gets warped into an alternate dimension, where they're steam-powered warship is forced to do battle against fleets of alien-crewed Man of Wars and Ships of the Line.

I'm gonna borrow it from my friend when he finishes the series... :smalltongue:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Depends. How large is a 'small group of people'.

[Crispy Dave]

I thought only one fallen space marine officer could man a dreadnought?

[Lycan 01]

Or a bunch of Gretchin, if you put enough Waaaaaaagghh! into it... :smallconfused:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Though I must say that the 40k answers were the first things to pop into my head. :smallcool:

[Ravens_cry]

I would say you would need quite fair size crew to really operate a dreadnought, considering all the guns that were in place. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought)

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I would say that the only reasonably sized warship of that era that a 'small group' could crew would be a cruiser of some kind.

[Renegade Paladin]

Not that it matters; a modern destroyer or frigate could destroy any fleet of wooden-hulled sailing ships with ease provided it didn't run out of shells before the enemy ran out of ships. A dreadnought would just be superfluous.

[Mando Knight]

Not that it matters; a modern destroyer or frigate could destroy any fleet of wooden-hulled sailing ships with ease provided it didn't run out of shells before the enemy ran out of ships. A dreadnought would just be superfluous.

A TRUE captain never runs out of shells!

RAMMING SPEED!

:smalltongue:

[The Glyphstone]

A TRUE captain never runs out of shells!

RAMMING SPEED!

:smalltongue:

Yeah...if we're talking modern steel warships vs. wood-hulled/Age of Sail vessels...the ammo's irrelevant, just ram them all to death.

[Don Julio Anejo]

A missile cruiser, especially a nuclear-powered one? You could realistically do it with only a few people (i.e. 4-5) provided you only want to use it in the short term and they know what they're doing. A navigator, a helmsman, an electronics officer to man the radar, a weapons officer to fire missiles and an engineer to monitor the engines... To the best of my knowledge, these ships are extremely automated and don't require a lot of maintenance. They are, however, likely to run out of missiles quickly, especially if they're the big kind of missiles.

Torpedo boats are another thing that's doable and can take out a fair size fleet. These, however, likely have very little ammo (e.g. 10 or so torpedoes) simply because you don't need to carry a lot, you're either dead by then or you've won the battle.

Battleships, however? Doubtful. You'd need a very big crew - at the very least, each gun needs a separate crew and modern battleships (e.g. the Missouri) have something like 15-20 guns (Missori had 9 16" and 16 5" guns before the final decommission). They also aren't very practical - the guns are designed to be fired at a range of dozens of miles and will have trouble engaging targets that are at point blank range preferred by most ships that don't have large-caliber main guns (like the 16 in/50 caliber) - it's likely the turret simply can't turn low enough to fire a shell into a frigate or ship of the line. Oh, and they fire giant 1.2 ton AP shells designed to go through 30cm of steel armor and several bulkheads before finally exploding. Even if they hit a nice, soft wooden hull of a sailing ship, the round may just as well go right through without exploding.

Thinking back, it may actually work better to instead steal a smaller (albeit still well-armored) ship like a destroyer and use that instead. Hopefully an older one, eg from WWII. And then using large caliber (e.g. 40mm) automatic machine guns or small autocannons instead. They may even be more effective than main caliber guns that fire giant slugs of metal that will only make a hole and do little other damage.

This way you also have a much lower chance of running out of ammo and need a smaller crew.

PS: just checked this on wiki. A 16" needs a crew of 94 per turret (3 guns) to operate and a 5" needs a crew of 15 to 27 per gun. Even if you assume half of those people aren't strictly needed, that's still at the very least 30 or so per 16" or 5-10 per 5". Per single gun. Not very practical if you only have a small group of people.

[Renegade Paladin]

They also aren't very practical - the guns are designed to be fired at a range of dozens of miles and will have trouble engaging targets that are at point blank range preferred by most ships that don't have large-caliber main guns (like the 16 in/50 caliber) - it's likely the turret simply can't turn low enough to fire a shell into a frigate or ship of the line. Oh, and they fire giant 1.2 ton AP shells designed to go through 30cm of steel armor and several bulkheads before finally exploding. Even if they hit a nice, soft wooden hull of a sailing ship, the round may just as well go right through without exploding.
Three points.

1.) A battleship is far more mobile than a sailing vessel; the dreadnought would choose the engagement range, not the sailing fleet.

2.) You think putting a big honking hole in a ship of the line won't cause it problems?

3.) The ships are made of wood and propelled by hemp rope and canvas. This is what battleship guns do when they fire.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/RenegadePaladin/Warships/1bb61.jpg

Do you think they even need shells? They could fire blanks and still ruin the HMS Victory's entire day. :smalltongue:

[Teddy]

2.) You think putting a big honking hole in a ship of the line won't cause it problems?

I guess you've never heard of the battle of Leyte Gulf then? One of the main events during that battle was a Japanese battleship group (which included the world's largest battleship; Yamato) spotting an American escort carrier group. The Japanese commander greatly missjudged the Americans' strength (the prime reason being that the Japanese had no knowledge on the escort carriers and misstook them for the larger main carriers) and ordered his ships to attack independently.

Anyway, the Japanese started bombarding the ships with heavy shells, but the practically unarmored escort carriers survived hit after hit, just because the shells would pass right through them and detonate on a safe distance. The Americans lost two escort carriers, two destroyers and one destroyer escort during this skirmish, while the Japanese lost three cruisers to bombs and torpedos from American planes and destroyers, before the Japanese withdrew out of fear and doubt.

[Ravens_cry]

I have heard of that battle, but those ships had something European wooden ships of the line lacked. That is, bulkheads and watertight doors to stop the flooding from spreading.

[Don Julio Anejo]

The thing is, a round still has to hit below the waterline to sink a ship, wooden or not. Otherwise all it does is make a big hole in a ship that you can look through to see the other side.

Three points.

1.) A battleship is far more mobile than a sailing vessel; the dreadnought would choose the engagement range, not the sailing fleet.

2.) You think putting a big honking hole in a ship of the line won't cause it problems?

3.) The ships are made of wood and propelled by hemp rope and canvas. This is what battleship guns do when they fire.

1. Only partly true if you're operating on a barely sufficient crew. I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing you need more people than just the helmsman to quickly and easily turn the ship. Also, you need to move your guns along with the ship, which probably requires larger gun crews. Good point though, I completely forgot since I assumed the ship would just stand there and shoot.

2. See above, but no, it won't, unless it his below the waterline.

3. You also have to maneuver your ship into point blank range, fire the guns (which means you need more than one gun crew) and hope it actually sets the ship on fire, since the fireball is only momentary and doesn't transfer much heat. However, doing this will more likely than not disable the ship in question by incapacitating sailors that are above deck (e.g. those controlling the rigging) with the shockwave and partly the fireball.

[Teddy]

I have heard of that battle, but those ships had something European wooden ships of the line lacked. That is, bulkheads and watertight doors to stop the flooding from spreading.

True, but there is a second problem too: you need to penetrate the hull below the waterline to sink the ship, and that is quite hard, especially when you're too undermanned to efficently operate the cannons. If the grenade travels in a high trajectory, the chances of penetrating the hull below the waterline rises, but it's harder to hit that way, and probably nigh-impossible for an inexperienced and undermanned crew (okay, I don't know anything of the supposed crew's experience with battleships. I'm just guessing).

EDIT: Ninja'd!

[Coidzor]

Hmm. What sort of warheads do missile frigates carry anyway?

I mean, I know there's always the nuclear option, and the penetrate armor and then explode option... Seems like anti-material/anti-armor means would have too much of a chance of not knowing it was supposed to blow up the soft, wooden ships... Unless one did an aerial detonation over the vessels, possibly with thermite or a thermite like substance...

I still think a missile frigate would probably be the most easily manned by a small number of people, and it'd only need the one person capable of operating the primary weapons system.

Though, considering we have the bare, bare bones and really need a bit more info about the capabilities of the people involved, an estimate of their numbers, and... what would potentially be available to them.

[PersonMan]

Alright, after doing some more looking, I've found the sort of thing I want. A WWI-era Dreadnought, a ship in the "mothball fleet", was covertly taken over by a force of around X people. They're planning on bringing it to the area where the wooden ships are, around 14 miles away, and destroying them. They have little to no experience but can at least move and fire the ship well enough to not break anything. Assume they have maybe 40-50 hours in some sort of simulator, along with extensive knowledge on how to work the ship, just no real experience.They're going to be manning the ship with a skeleton crew, probably only using one or two of the guns if they each need lots of people.

It doesn't have to be a dreadnought, though. Basically, these people have a rather large pool of backers and about 7-8 hundred people willing to actually man the ship/ships. They have a financial pool of maybe 3-4 thousand dollars to do whatever they need to do, and they're expecting to be hailed as heroes after they reveal the secret of the wooden ship fleet.

The group of wooden ships(I'll call them WF for short) is about fourteen in number, and are anchored not far from the American coast near [coastal city]. The WF is manned by a skeleton crew of time-travelers who are coming to recapture some of their number who were kidnapped(the PCs). The ships are all Man of War types, and have been retrofitted with light armor made out of a type of metal about as heavy as aluminum but about 1.5x as strong, giving them some resistance to small arms fire.

So, what sort of defenses would such a group be able to put up? Aside from the usual stuff on their ships, assume that they can steal as much as, say, 200 lbs of stuff to use on these ships for defending themselves.

In addition, what sort of response would the US Navy/Coast Guard put up? Assume a time lag of about 3 hours to normal response due to some magical interference being used by the time-travelers. So far they've sent a single Iowa-class ship to keep an eye on them and the nearby area, and the crew is beginning to get (magically) ill, and the captain is considering returning to shore. However, near the WF no radios work. How would this effect the US Naval/Coast Guard operations.

[RS14]

They also aren't very practical - the guns are designed to be fired at a range of dozens of miles and will have trouble engaging targets that are at point blank range preferred by most ships that don't have large-caliber main guns (like the 16 in/50 caliber) - it's likely the turret simply can't turn low enough to fire a shell into a frigate or ship of the line. Oh, and they fire giant 1.2 ton AP shells designed to go through 30cm of steel armor and several bulkheads before finally exploding. Even if they hit a nice, soft wooden hull of a sailing ship, the round may just as well go right through without exploding.

1) The 5'' guns of the Iowa class ships could depress to -15 degrees. The 16'' guns could depress to -5 degrees.

2) Those shells are 2600lbs. A Carronade, a fairly powerful, traditonal cannon, fired a 32lb shell. The 16'' shells, even assuming they don't explode (I'm almost certain they could use quick fuses for shore bombardment, to avoid burrying the shells in the ground) would leave a very big hole causing signifigant structual damage, even above the waterline. It may crack, warp, or otherwise damage parts of the hull not directly struck.

Also, traditional cannons are unlikely to do much to a modern battleship. Near the waterline, torpedo belts mean cannons will fail to penetrate. They can wreck the superstructure, but they absolutely cannot sink one.


So, what sort of defenses would such a group be able to put up? Aside from the usual stuff on their ships, assume that they can steal as much as, say, 200 lbs of stuff to use on these ships for defending themselves.

In addition, what sort of response would the US Navy/Coast Guard put up? Assume a time lag of about 3 hours to normal response due to some magical interference being used by the time-travelers. So far they've sent a single Iowa-class ship to keep an eye on them and the nearby area, and the crew is beginning to get (magically) ill, and the captain is considering returning to shore. However, near the WF no radios work. How would this effect the US Naval/Coast Guard operations.

The WF? They need modern guns. Even a QF 6 pounder weighs about a ton, so they're screwed. A shoulder-fired RPG might pierce armor, but won't realistically do enough. Additionally, they have no defense against straffing aircraft.

Any warship with a 5'' gun (anything above a torpedo boat or minesweeper) will cut wood and sail ships to pieces inside visual range. Modern ships will additionally be fast enough to engage or disengage at will.

[Mercenary Pen]

Alright, after doing some more looking, I've found the sort of thing I want. A WWI-era Dreadnought, a ship in the "mothball fleet", was covertly taken over by a force of around X people. They're planning on bringing it to the area where the wooden ships are, around 14 miles away, and destroying them. They have little to no experience but can at least move and fire the ship well enough to not break anything. Assume they have maybe 40-50 hours in some sort of simulator, along with extensive knowledge on how to work the ship, just no real experience.They're going to be manning the ship with a skeleton crew, probably only using one or two of the guns if they each need lots of people.

It doesn't have to be a dreadnought, though. Basically, these people have a rather large pool of backers and about 7-8 hundred people willing to actually man the ship/ships. They have a financial pool of maybe 3-4 thousand dollars to do whatever they need to do, and they're expecting to be hailed as heroes after they reveal the secret of the wooden ship fleet.

The group of wooden ships(I'll call them WF for short) is about fourteen in number, and are anchored not far from the American coast near [coastal city]. The WF is manned by a skeleton crew of time-travelers who are coming to recapture some of their number who were kidnapped(the PCs). The ships are all Man of War types, and have been retrofitted with light armor made out of a type of metal about as heavy as aluminum but about 1.5x as strong, giving them some resistance to small arms fire.

So, what sort of defenses would such a group be able to put up? Aside from the usual stuff on their ships, assume that they can steal as much as, say, 200 lbs of stuff to use on these ships for defending themselves.

In addition, what sort of response would the US Navy/Coast Guard put up? Assume a time lag of about 3 hours to normal response due to some magical interference being used by the time-travelers. So far they've sent a single Iowa-class ship to keep an eye on them and the nearby area, and the crew is beginning to get (magically) ill, and the captain is considering returning to shore. However, near the WF no radios work. How would this effect the US Naval/Coast Guard operations.

I'd say, for a start, you're massively underestimating the range of Dreadnought level cannons, considering those aboard the original HMS Dreadnought had a maximum range of 16,450m (almost 10.3 miles), whereas the guns of the British 1912-commissioned HMS Orion could manage 21,800m (13.625miles), neatly making the distance to WF a complete non-issue. In short, your proposed dreadnought barely has to leave port before it is able to annihilate WF- and should it run out of the massive 12 inch or wider shells for its guns, it has the armour to ram straight through each of the enemy ships without more than a couple of scratches... In short, this is by no means a heroic endeavour, it is a massacre.

[RS14]

I'd say, for a start, you're massively underestimating the range of Dreadnought level cannons, considering those aboard the original HMS Dreadnought had a maximum range of 16,450m (almost 10.3 miles), whereas the guns of the British 1912-commissioned HMS Orion could manage 21,800m (13.625miles), neatly making the distance to WF a complete non-issue. In short, your proposed dreadnought barely has to leave port before it is able to annihilate WF- and should it run out of the massive 12 inch or wider shells for its guns, it has the armour to ram straight through each of the enemy ships without more than a couple of scratches... In short, this is by no means a heroic endeavour, it is a massacre.

While I agree with your thesis, I believe they will need to approach to close range. Lack of radio implies lack of radar. In any case, I suspect that modern naval radar is inadequate for targeting wooden ships (I may be mistaken). In any case, they'll need to make visual contact to target the ships.

[Mercenary Pen]

While I agree with your thesis, I believe they will need to approach to close range. Lack of radio implies lack of radar. In any case, I suspect that modern naval radar is inadequate for targeting wooden ships (I may be mistaken). In any case, they'll need to make visual contact to target the ships.

You're probably right. Also, considering we're likely dealing with WWI vintage ships here, they likely pre-date radar... However, a similar effect could be achieved with forward observers relaying targeting information to the guns- possibly by laying a telephone cable across to the dreadnought (thus removing the need for radio waves)... Whilst army-style artillery tactics are not the most ideal means of controlling naval gunnery (due to the rocking of the waves) they'll at least get your shots roughly on target.

[Teddy]

(I'm almost certain they could use quick fuses for shore bombardment, to avoid burrying the shells in the ground)

Shore bombardment is done with other types of grenades, IIRC, just because of that reason. Anti-armor-munitions aren't designed for shore bombardment anyway. And I'm not sure wether it's possible to change the fuses on most grenades either. Yamato suffered from a too high fuse time on her grenades (because they were supposed to hit the ship below the waterline), for example.

[Mauther]

Alright, after doing some more looking, I've found the sort of thing I want. A WWI-era Dreadnought, a ship in the "mothball fleet", was covertly taken over by a force of around X people. They're planning on bringing it to the area where the wooden ships are, around 14 miles away, and destroying them. They have little to no experience but can at least move and fire the ship well enough to not break anything. Assume they have maybe 40-50 hours in some sort of simulator, along with extensive knowledge on how to work the ship, just no real experience.They're going to be manning the ship with a skeleton crew, probably only using one or two of the guns if they each need lots of people.

It doesn't have to be a dreadnought, though. Basically, these people have a rather large pool of backers and about 7-8 hundred people willing to actually man the ship/ships. They have a financial pool of maybe 3-4 thousand dollars to do whatever they need to do, and they're expecting to be hailed as heroes after they reveal the secret of the wooden ship fleet.

The group of wooden ships(I'll call them WF for short) is about fourteen in number, and are anchored not far from the American coast near [coastal city]. The WF is manned by a skeleton crew of time-travelers who are coming to recapture some of their number who were kidnapped(the PCs). The ships are all Man of War types, and have been retrofitted with light armor made out of a type of metal about as heavy as aluminum but about 1.5x as strong, giving them some resistance to small arms fire.

So, what sort of defenses would such a group be able to put up? Aside from the usual stuff on their ships, assume that they can steal as much as, say, 200 lbs of stuff to use on these ships for defending themselves.

In addition, what sort of response would the US Navy/Coast Guard put up? Assume a time lag of about 3 hours to normal response due to some magical interference being used by the time-travelers. So far they've sent a single Iowa-class ship to keep an eye on them and the nearby area, and the crew is beginning to get (magically) ill, and the captain is considering returning to shore. However, near the WF no radios work. How would this effect the US Naval/Coast Guard operations.

Any modern (20th century forward) ship would wipe the floor with a wooden hull, even one with light armor. While you could use a dreadnought for style points, even a corvette or cutter would leave them smoking wrecks. A modern coastal patrol boat like the Cyclone class has a full crew of 28 (4 officers, 24 enlisted), top speed of 35 knots and a plethora of weapons that would suffice for this task: two M242 Bushmaster autocannons (remote) (6km range), five .50 caliber machine guns (2 km range), two 40mm automatic grenade launchers (< 2 km range), and two m240 machine guns. Mind you, that's one of the smallest class of ships. Upgrade it to a more security rated ship like a medium endurance cutter in the Famous class and you get a 76mm naval gun (30 km range) plus organic helicopter support. You don't even have to get the Navy involved, coastal security would more than suffice.

And wooden ships, especially broad ships, still have very trackable radar signatures. While wood is not a great reflector for radar, the large size and broad flat surfaces stand out like a sore thumb on radar, slapping metal armor on the side would only serve to negate any radar absorbing principles wood might have. On top of that, sails are high visibility. Considering the all-weather day/night capability of even Coast Guard ships this engagement will be conducted at at their leisure. Result, the Coast Guard will find their resources taxed, a single ship doesn't really have the resources to pull all of the crews of the WF ships out of the water. They will need to radio back to base for additional floatation devices.

[Lev]

The snuggernaught, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdY7Adc1LRM

[PersonMan]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "How would the US Navy/Coast Guard respond to some people stealing an old ship to destroy some unknowns in a radio-jamming-type zone in wooden ships?" than "How would the US Navy/Coast Guard blow these ships up?"

However, thanks for the replies so far.

[Mercenary Pen]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "How would the US Navy/Coast Guard respond to some people stealing an old ship to destroy some unknowns in a radio-jamming-type zone in wooden ships?" than "How would the US Navy/Coast Guard blow these ships up?"

However, thanks for the replies so far.

Okay, on the subject of how the Navy/Coastguard would respond to the theft of an old big-gun warship... They'd likely do this by air-strike. Most Dreadnoughts, particularly the older designs, are woefully unequipped for defence against aerial assault- simply because they pre-dated the use of planes for anything more than reconnaissance. I don't know the specifics, but I bet the US has provisions so they can go all-out against anyone stealing military hardware, and if necessary just take the corpses to court for trial afterwards.

So basically, the plan of action is as follows:

1- Either the US Navy, The Marine Corps or the USAF blows the stolen Dreadnought out of the water- depending on who has resources in the area at the time. I do not fancy the chances of a WWI-era Dreadnought against modern bombs and missiles (considering the size of the target, Cruise missiles might be quite easily employed here).
2- US Navy/Coastguard/Whoever else gets to pick survivors out of the water and arrest them to stand trial.
3- Cleanup operations begin to remove wreckage before it becomes a potential navigation hazard.

[Force]

I'm assuming that this is modern-day; if that's the case, there is no Iowa-class battleship currently on active duty for the USN to send to keep an eye on the wooden ships. Neither are there any remaining WW1-era dreadnoughts, either. USN would send either a Ticonderoga-class cruiser, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, or a Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate.

There's one ship still serviceable in the US Navy that would count as a "dreadnought", and that's the USS Iowa. All other ships that would be classified as "dreadnoughts" have either been decomissioned or are museum ships. As a result, we can say that the only battleship this "small group" is likely able to swipe without a great deal of effort is the Iowa, and she was modernized as of 1980 with radar and computer targeting systems. As the wooden ships have been refitted with metal sides, they should return enough radar waves that they could be designated as targets. While the Iowa's shells may not sink the wooden ships in question (insufficient pressure to detonate said shells) the sheer mass of the shell in question will reduce the wooden ship's decking to splinters. Impromptu shrapnel, more or less. They may not be able to sink the ships but mission kills are easy.

That said, I highly doubt 7-8 people can run the Iowa. A modern cruiser or destroyer probably could be run by 7-8 people for a short engagement with vastly inferior forces, assuming they had access to all the command codes, but definitely not a freakin' battleship. If it's necessary that a reserve fleet ship be used, one would be better off with a cruiser or destroyer. Such as vessel as the USS Vincennes (CG-49) is currently in mothball and has two 5" guns that would easily take out any wooden ships it might go up against (not to mention its missile armament).

USN's response? Chances are the first response is going to be a flight of land-based fighters that do a fly-by on this old ship, ID it, and attempt to hail it. If they receive no response, chances are they'll call home and ask for orders. The US Navy would prefer to get its ship back intact, so it's unlikely that the fighters will be ordered to blow it to pieces unless the ship refuses to surrender or attempts to fire on the fighters (which is suicide). The closest carrier battle group probably gets orders to intercept and board the vessel. If the ship is hostile, or the USN determines that intervention in time is not possible, the fighters will be ordered to fire on it. Missiles should do the job.

[PersonMan]

Seven to eight hundred people, not 7-8 people.

I see. Well, this is what I get for not checking about the status of ships in the Navy at the current time. Oh,well.

Thanks for the help.

[Coidzor]

Long story short, it does not pay to be an insufficiently advanced time traveler entering into a military fracas.

[Mauther]

Hey, all is not lost. If you’re willing to suspend realism for a little bit and modify your plotline you can still make it work. Move your WF to the Gulf Coast region, your wooden ships are off the coast between Louisiana and Texas. Your conspiracy of dreadnaught thieves are actually backed by a billionaire (either oil or telecom) out of Texas. Maybe the he knew the time travelers were coming, maybe he’s just an eccentric crazy man who likes wasting money on grandiose projects, but he’s decided to modernize the flagship of the Texas navy, the oldest remaining dreadnaught, BB-35 USS Texas. As part of the ships centennial celebration, he’s been pouring money into making the ship seaworthy: updating her propulsion, power and communications. Secretly, he has also been bringing her weapons systems and fire control back online either intending to put on a show for the public or fearing the inevitable onslaught of the red menace.

Now your crew has a relatively functional dreadnaught, and a sponsor who can get them out to sea to use it. You would also have to retcon the dry-docking they are in the process of implementing (the philistines) for the Texas, but for the crazy billionaire that shouldn’t be a problem. Go ahead and go whole hog and replace the weapons, drive, sensors, armor and comm with near future tech and make this a crazy particle beam spewing, mag shield generating, 21st century naval terror. All of which I blatantly stole from a horribly enjoyable book I read when I was kid called “The Ayes of Texas” by Daniel Da Cruz.

[PersonMan]

Long story short, it does not pay to be an insufficiently advanced time traveler entering into a military fracas.

Don't worry. They have absurdly huge backup.

And a mobile iceberg base, but that's for later.