Let's Make a Monster!

[SlaadLord]

It's exactly what it sounds like. We're gonna make a monster as a group, voting on type, size, subtype, HD, natural attacks, special attacks, and special qualities...

Who's in?

TYPE: PLANT

Plant: 10
Vermin: 2

SUBTYPE: AQUATIC

Aquatic: 8
Chaos: 1
Fire: 1
Goblinoid: 1
Incorporeal: 3
Lawful: 1
Shapechanger: 2
Swarm: 2

SIZE: LARGE

Fine: 1
Tiny: 1
Large: 7
Gargantuan: 1
Colossal: 2

CHALLENGE RATING: 0-1

0-1: 10
8-10: 2

HIT DICE: 0

0: 5
2: 1

LEVEL ADJUSTMENT: +1

+1: 6
+2: 2

SPECIAL QUALITIES: BLINDSENSE/SIGHT, FAST HEALING, VULNERABILITY

Blindsense/Blindsight: 5
Fast Healing: 5
Tremorsense: 1
Vulnerability to...: 4

[The Dark Fiddler]

Seen this happen before never gotten involved.

I think it's time I did. I support a plant type fo' sho'.

[Xallace]

Yeah, I can dig the plant type. How about we give it some weird subtype? Like [Swarm]. Or [Halfling].

Edit: Officially voting Large Plant Swarm.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

3.5 or 4.0?

[SlaadLord]

Well I happen to dislike the monster creation rules for 4.0, as they are random at best and frankly nonexistant at worst. Thus it will be a 3.5 creation.

[The Tygre]

You modelin' this off of Zeta Kai's old 'Vote-A-Monster' stuff? That'd be awesome. At the very least, I think you could use the tables.

[MoleMage]

Putting a vote in for Vermin!

Though Plant is good too.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

How about a Vermin / Plant? :smallwink:

[SlaadLord]

Well I keep hearing Plant, so let's do that. Size?

[Zeta Kai]

I vote for Plant. Large Plant.

And if you're going to do this, please do it right (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4935219#post4935219). Keep a tally (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5061613#post5061613), & put up (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5121003#post5121003) tables so that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5198419#post5198419) the voters can (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5724724#post5724724) see what their (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5774716#post5774716) options are. It (http://http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5877707#post5877707) works better that (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5932556#post5932556) way, trust me. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6021012#post6021012)

[SlaadLord]

If you insist.

[MoleMage]

Ok, size is up for vote?

I vote Fine.

[Volthawk]

I'll say Colossal for size.

[ninjaneer003]

I'd vote for large humonaid plant

[Debihuman]

Joining the band wagon: Large Plant. Plants don't get much love.

Debby

[Nanoblack]

We could do a large plant with the incorporeal subtype....

*Thunder and lightning* A Ghost Fungus! Duhn, duhn, duhn!

[The Tygre]

Castin' my vote to Large Plant, too.

[The Mentalist]

Gargantuan Plant (Because it's one of those sizes that gets no love)

[The Dark Fiddler]

Tiny! Let's go for really small!

[al'raith]

colossal + put the tarrasque to shame

[UnChosenOne]

Joining to the bandwagon, so Large Plant.

ps. Awesome thread is awesome.

[Jogi]

Cmon guys, what could be better than a plant swarm?

[Rithaniel]

Throwing in a vote for a Large Plant (Aquatic)

Coral Crusher or Algea Creeper.

Might be cool to see a Large Plant (Aquatic, Augmented Undead) too.

Drowned Moss-Coverred Corpse.

[Drogorn]

I'll vote for Plant Swarm

[Silverscale]

Just cuz this looks interesting.....Large Vampiric Algie Swarm

That gives it Large, Plant, Swarm, Aquatic, and Undead, with Vampirism to boot

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I vote type Plant, Subtype Aquatic, Size Huge.

[Zeta Kai]

Swarms are horrid to homebrew with, & besides, we already voted for a Large creature. Technically, a swarm is a bunch of Tiny or smaller creatures that takes up a Large space. I wouldn't wish for a first-timer to have to suffer through making a swarm.

So, in summation, I shall vote for the Aquatic template.

[MoleMage]

Subtype: Chaos.

[Volthawk]

Subtype: Chaos.

And Law, just for the contradiction :smallbiggrin:

[SlaadLord]

Alright. Type: Plant by a landslide.
Size: Consensus seems to say large.
Subtype is still up for discussion, but Aquatic and Swarm seem to be leading.

[Nanoblack]

Why not both? a large aquatic plant swarm seems interesting

[SlaadLord]

Nanoblack: As Zeta Kai has so astutely pointed out, a swarm's component creatures cannot be Large. Besides, a swarm would require that the vote went to the size being Fine, Diminutive or Tiny.

Zeta Kai: This would not be my first time making monsters, nor would it be my first making a swarm. Thanks for the concern, though.

[Jogi]

Nanoblack: As Zeta Kai has so astutely pointed out, a swarm's component creatures cannot be Large. Besides, a swarm would require that the vote went to the size being Fine, Diminutive or Tiny.

Zeta Kai: This would not be my first time making monsters, nor would it be my first making a swarm. Thanks for the concern, though.

The swarm components cannot be large, what about the swarm itself being large?

[ninjaneer003]

well it's a plant so of course it's subtype must be: FIRE!!! but no seriously a fire plant does seem like kind of a contradiction but some plants only bloom after a fire so i think it would be a cool mix that hasn't been done

[SlaadLord]

Jogi: That is a technicality. The vote was for a Large creature, and Large creatures cannot have the swarm subtype.

[The Tygre]

Throwing my vote to the Aquatic subtype.

[FlamingKobold]

Subtype: Incorporeal.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Aquatic and Shapechanger subtypes.

[flabort]

I'm putting my vote on Aquatic and Incorpereal.
Just because it will be THAT hard to hit.

[Incomp]

Aquatic and shapechanger would be awesome, I agree. Like a coral reef thing (I know that's actually animals, and maybe a swarm to boot) that could sprout more/various corals to manifest different abilities! Awesome! Possibly!

[UserShadow7989]

I vote aquatic. For some reason, I'm starting to picture a plant person-like creature that encases itself in a giant lily pad to protect itself.

[UnChosenOne]

I vote for Goblinoid subtype.

[Rithaniel]

Well, it seems to me that the consensus is for the aquatic subtype. What is the next part up for a vote? CR? Movement Rates? HD? Alignment?

I think I'd like to make this creature be able to be played as a PC, too. Being an impressive coral behemoth would just be too cool.

[UnChosenOne]

I would say that CR should be next thing to be voted.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I vote CR 10!

[Volthawk]

I'd say CR 1.

[UserShadow7989]

I agree with CR10. It's enough to make some cool abilities, while making it a reasonable addition to more games then a higher CR creature.

Actually, an aquatic plant as a playable race would be awesome. I vote 0-1.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I think we should vote in ranges to give ourselves a bit of wiggle room when actually coming up with the rest of the stuff, and to make tabulating votes easier. I suggest every 3 CR as a category, with 1 and lower a single choice (making the choices 0-1, 2-4, 5-7, 8-10, 11-13, 14-16, 17-19, 20-22, 23-25, etc. Or maybe at that point make it 25+?)

Anyway, I vote for 0-1.

[demidracolich]

Also 0-1, a playable aquatic plant would be really awesome and there needs to be more aquatic races anyways.

[SlaadLord]

Subtype: Aquatic.
Challenge Rating: As per the Dark Fiddler's suggestion, I like the idea of making the CR votes within a range, every three categories. The votes up to this point have all been counted and noted.

[UserShadow7989]

I'd like to change my vote from 10 to 0-1, and edited my previous post to reflect this. Sorry to trouble you, it's just that the concept is so cool.

[Silverscale]

I toss in my hat for 0-1 so it can be playable. I envision a kind of aquatic Wood-Woad or Shambling Mound.....could be interesting. Perhaps the race acts a the protector of forests of sea-weed or fields of coral.

[The Tygre]

Voting for a CR 8-10.

[ninjaneer003]

i vote for 0-1

[Fortuna]

0-1, for playability.

[flabort]

CR 0-1, for playability, and HD 3 because it's large sized, and when has there ever been a large sized playable race without HD?

we're only going 1 subtype? no -ghostly- plant men? still, large aquatic plant is cool, even without incorperal.

[MoleMage]

0-1. I'd enjoy an aquatic plant playable race as well.

[UnChosenOne]

0-1, Aquati plantc that is playable? Count me in.

[Rithaniel]

I'm going to vote for CR 0-1 as well, leaning very heavily towards CR 1, so you can tack on a +1 level adjustment and keep large size and some other totally cool features, without having to nuke them with penalties.

[SlaadLord]

So many people...

Anyway. A CR 0-1 Large Plant with the Aquatic subtype that is playable. We're gonna need level adjustment and racial Hit Dice. The Monster Manual suggests that most Large creatures have at least 4 Hit Dice, so let's use that as the baseline?

In other words, the next topic of voting is Hit Dice. I would think the range would be from 4-6.

[Rithaniel]

Well, it goes without saying that anything with more than +3 to their ecl from their race alone, isn't effectively playable.

If a level 1 character can fight one of these things, I think they should be able to be one of these things, so, I'll cast a vote for +1 LA and no racial HD.

[UnChosenOne]

I vote for HD 0 and LA +1.

[flabort]

2 HD (it's a plant, rather... soft), and +2 LA. also give it rapid healing or some such.

[UserShadow7989]

Hm. I'll have to say 0 HD and LA +1. I'd rather give it fast healing then a lot of hit dice, since most plants are fragile and vulnerable to the elements but can come back from the brink.

[MoleMage]

HD 0
LA +2

Give it some cool features, but still playable.
My two cents.

[ninjaneer003]

i think it would be cool if this monster could wildshape into any other plant as well

[demidracolich]

Then it wouldn't be called wildshape. Anyways also 0HD and LA+1 because I like to play things with as little LA as possible.

[Silverscale]

I'm tossing in my vote for LA+1

[WeLoveFireballs]

I vote for LA +1.

[SlaadLord]

Well looks like the votes are saying 0 HD and LA +1 I don't know how that's going to work with a Large aquatic plant but we'll see.

Voting on special qualities (I don't think I can justify a special attack on this one) is now open.

[demidracolich]

Fast healing and blind sense/ possibly bindsight when underwater. (not fast healing, just the blind sense/sight shoul work underwater to balance it out)

[Volthawk]

Maybe no sight, but some kind of detection method?

[demidracolich]

Sure, but then it definitely needs blindsight out to a decent range.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Fast healing and Poison!

[SlaadLord]

Fast healing yes, poison no. There's gonna be serious balance issues as is, and we don't need special attacks to complicate things.

[UserShadow7989]

Fast Healing when in water/for a short time after leaving/drinking water. Blind Sense/Blind Sight out to a decent range in exchange for no normal sight. Poison on unarmed attacks/natural attacks (will it have natural attacks?) is cool too.

Personally, I don't see how the penalty to AC and Attack Rolls caused by Large size are overshadowed by a +2 bonus to Grapple checks and better carrying capacity, but I'm probably just missing something.

[Volthawk]

Personally, I don't see how the penalty to AC and Attack Rolls caused by Large size are overshadowed by a +2 bonus to Grapple checks and better carrying capacity, but I'm probably just missing something.

Bigger weapons?

[SlaadLord]

Personally, I don't see how the penalty to AC and Attack Rolls caused by Large size are overshadowed by a +2 bonus to Grapple checks and better carrying capacity, but I'm probably just missing something.

It's a +4 size bonus to grapple.

[UserShadow7989]

Bigger weapons cost a lot more money, and I THINK they cost more to enhance, but that might be my faulty memory speaking... actually, once you hit mid levels money isn't that much of a concern, is it? It's been way too long since I played.

Also, thanks for the correction about the Grapple bonus.

[Temotei]

Bigger weapons cost a lot more money, and I THINK they cost more to enhance, but that might be my faulty memory speaking... actually, once you hit mid levels money isn't that much of a concern, is it? It's been way too long since I played.

Also, thanks for the correction about the Grapple bonus.

Reach is pretty big.

[UserShadow7989]

Reach is pretty big.

*smacks self* THAT'S what I forgot. Large has better reach. I feel so stupid.

[Silverscale]

I put my vote down for Fast Healing when in water or having just consumed X amount of water. I also think that since it's aquatic it should have something like Blind-sense or Tremor-sense when in the water. and a lesser version of that out of the water. And to give it some penalty it should be vulnerable to fire and/or lightning.

[Rithaniel]

Yeah, most of large sizes positives come with polarized negatives, but, the character gets slightly more benefit from going up a size than he gets penalties from it. Enough, in fact, to call Large size about a +.75 LA by itself.

I say give them fast healing 2 while in water, and scaling blindsense/sight. Like this:

At 1 HD, blindsense out to 20 feet.

At 3 HD, blindsense out to 40 feet.

At 7 HD, blindsense out to 60 feet.

At 11 HD, blindsight out to 20 feet, and blindsense out to 80 feet.

At 15 HD, blindsight out to 40 feet, and blindsense out to 100 feet.

At 19 HD, blindsight out to 60 feet, and blindsense out to 120 feet.

All the same, I wouldn't take away normal sight from them. At least, not completely. Relying solely on blindsense to get around is not really possible, as you're going to rolling a lot of miss chances (course, you could just give them something like blind-fight as a bonus feat, for that). Perhaps you just give them very very bad eyesight? Like, they cannot actually see anything further than 10 feet away from them.

For further features, yeah, giving them a special attack would be neat, but, since it looks more like a race is being made, now, it's acceptable not to have it. I'd say give them the ability to either swim (and all the features of that, such as being able to take 10 on swim checks, and getting +8 to them as well) or become heavy enough to walk across the ocean floor (Which would be so cool). Also, the ability to breathe underwater, of course.

Edit: I agree with Energy Vulnerability.

[Owrtho]

Well, I like the general idea of it being blind and having fast healing based on weather or not it is in the water. That said, I'll vote Tremorsense.

Owrtho

[Nanoblack]

If we do go with the fast healing then i think it should stop functioning one you reach 1/2 max health

[UserShadow7989]

I agree with the Energy Vulnerability to Ice/Lightning, to keep it a balanced LA +1.

I also support everything in Rithaniel's post.

EDIT: Changed my vote to Energy Vulnerability to Ice/Lightning instead of Fire/Lightning, for reasons pointed out below.

[The Dark Fiddler]

I agree with the Fast Healing, particularly with it stopping at 1/2 health. Perhaps some sort of ability to root itself to the ground? Maybe something like can't move, Dex bonus to AC is lost, but Fast Healing improves by 1 and can heal to 3/4 HP, Damage Reduction, an improvement in Strength, Natural Armor, Constitution, (improved) tremorsense... these are all just loose ideas, not that they all need to be in there.

Oh, and Energy Vulnerability to Lightning and Ice. Fire Vulnerability doesn't seem very sensible to a Water-based creature, even if it IS a plant.

[SlaadLord]

It looks like you all want it to have:

Fast Healing (conditional; gains it when in water? or when under 1/2 full hp? or both?)

Blindsense/blindsight (again conditional; some want it to only be able to do this in the water, some want it to have very poor vision...some want it to only have this...)

Vulnerability to... (looks like cold and electricity are the leading candidates). Both or one vs. the other? Both makes it a bit weak, actually.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Fast Healing (conditional; gains it when in water? or when under 1/2 full hp? or both?)

I'd say when under 1/2 full hp and after having had access to a plentiful source of water in the last 10 minutes or so.


Blindsense/blindsight (again conditional; some want it to only be able to do this in the water, some want it to have very poor vision...some want it to only have this...)

I say poor vision and blind-whatever-.


Vulnerability to... (looks like cold and electricity are the leading candidates). Both or one vs. the other? Both makes it a bit weak, actually.

I say both, and then let's boot some other stuff.

[UserShadow7989]

It looks like you all want it to have:

Fast Healing (conditional; gains it when in water? or when under 1/2 full hp? or both?)

Blindsense/blindsight (again conditional; some want it to only be able to do this in the water, some want it to have very poor vision...some want it to only have this...)

Vulnerability to... (looks like cold and electricity are the leading candidates). Both or one vs. the other? Both makes it a bit weak, actually.

If being vulnerable to both makes it somewhat weak, we could buff the Fast Healing (make it last for a while after leaving or drinking water/not stop working below half HP/heal more) or Blindsense/Blindsight (greater range/no miss chance due to blindness/has normal vision too) to compensate, or give it a few weak bonuses to skill checks and the like.

[SlaadLord]

Consensus says vulnerability to electricity.

How about this:

Quick Regrowth (Ex): Whenever a CREATURE is reduced to under half of its total hit points, it it gains fast healing 2 as long as it has been exposed to at least five gallons of water within the last hour. This fast healing persists until it possesses half of its total hit points.

Blindsight (Ex): Whenever a CREATURE is immersed in the water, it gains blindsight 120ft. This extends to the water's edge. While out of water, a CREATURE has only blindsense 60ft.

CREATURES can only see half the distance in any illumination of normal humans.

[Nanoblack]

For a bit of flavor we could also give them a rivalry with shambling mounds... or they could work together considering their different reactions to lightning.

[erictheredd]

along with the fast healing, up to 1/2 hp, I think they should recover hp beyond that at a greater rate than normal. If they can generate half their normal hp during an encounter, they should be able to recover overnight or something like that-- maybe have them heal per hour instead of per day?

[SlaadLord]

Again, too unbalanced for LA +1 and no racial HD.

[Rithaniel]

*facepalm*

Enlarge Person is a first level spell, that means that any level 2 character can be Large Sized, if they are Humanoids. Why should Humanoids get all the fun?

'Too unbalanced' my foot, here:

+2 Con, -2 Dex (or, in reverse)

Large Plant (Aquatic)

Fast healing 2 to FULL (making it be only to 1/2 makes it not worth having, no matter what intent you have) when submerged in water, and standing still. (That way, between one fight and the next, you can actually get your hp back, but you keep some pretty rigid restriction to it, just in case)

Poor Vision: A thing-a-ma-bob cannot see farther away from itself than it's reach (seems fair to me)

Blindsense out to 40 feet.

Blindsight out to 20 feet when it reaches 10 HD.

Energy Vunerability to Ice and Lightning

LA +1

(not that hard)

[Owrtho]

I'd suggest just having it blind and give it blindsight or something similar out to 5' or 10' which upgrades later (as opposed to the normal vision to that range).

Owrtho

[SlaadLord]

Rithaniel: Well when you put it that way, yeah it's not that hard. But really, totally blind? Fine.

Sargasi
Large Plant (Aquatic)
+2 Str, +2 Con, -4 Dex
Base Land speed 30ft., swim 30ft.: Sargasi are capable swimmers in addition to walking on the earth.
Sargasi gain Fast Healing 2 for as long as they immerse themselves totally in water and take no actions.
Poor Vision: Sargasi are incapable of seeing anything past ten feet from themselves.
Blindsense 40ft.
Sargassi gain Blindsight 20ft. when they reach 10HD.
Vulnerable to Cold and Electricity
LA +1

[Nanoblack]

Maybe they could have their vision reduced by cold damage instead

[flabort]

Fast healling, and bludgeon resistance. as well as energy vulnerability and some sort of reliance on water (if don't spend 1 hour per day with feet in water, -2 to all stats?).
and, yeah. I'll agree with poor vision.

[Silverscale]

Poor Eyesight yes but not that poor....perhaps only out to 15 or 20 feet.

[Nanoblack]

Perhaps a penalty to ranged attack rolls?