The Origin of the Linear Guild

[Bongos]

Well in #725 we see Nale fighting his father with what looks like 3 other members of the Linear Guild. Of course we don't know what they are called at that point.

If Nale already had Thog, Sabine, hisself and whatever that kobold's name was (Yikyak?). Isn't it very coincidental that they already matched several members of Oots, and all he had to do was add Hilgya and D'zzitri (or whatever their names were) and he had an "opposites" theme?

[pinwiz]

I'd guess it's the same as with Haley and Crystal. When Haley would gain a level, so would Crystal.

When Elan joins the party, Nale ammasses his own party, and by the Laws of Drama, they end up being Evil opposites.

[Leecros]

If Nale already had Thog, Sabine, hisself and whatever that kobold's name was (Yikyak?). Isn't it very coincidental that they already matched several members of Oots, and all he had to do was add Hilgya and D'zzitri (or whatever their names were) and he had an "opposites" theme?

Plot runs on coincidences. It wasn't until later that he actually had to try to keep with the evil opposites theme.

and it worked out so well for him.

[Bongos]

and it worked out so well for him.
Yes, Nale's story is truly one of success.

[krossbow]

Yes, Nale's story is truly one of success.

ironically, for proclaiming himself to be lawful, Nale has a hard problem maintaining loyalty from his minions. Leeky is probably more powerful than Nale, Thog and Sabine combined, so him leaving was probably one of the biggest blows he's had yet.

[Dr.Epic]

whatever that kobold's name was (Yikyak?).

It was Yikyik.

[Leecros]

Yes, Nale's story is truly one of success.


Beauty Success is in the eye of the beholder.

Nale didn't fail, he just succeeded in finding ways to not succeed. :smallconfused:

[krossbow]

Beauty Success is in the eye of the beholder.

Nale didn't fail, he just succeeded in finding ways to not succeed. :smallconfused:


On the plus side, unlike the order of the stick, The linear Guild never had its Leader killed. :smalltongue:

[Leecros]

On the plus side, unlike the order of the stick, The linear Guild never had its Leader killed. :smalltongue:

Hmm...you may be onto something there.

okay



Beauty Success is in the eye of the beholder.

Nale didn't fail, he just succeeded in finding ways to not succeed Not Dying.

[Turkish Delight]

With the new plunge into more details about the history of the Linear Guild, I suddenly have this hunch that the next book will be about Nale and company. Would seem the appropriate time for it.

And yes, it does seem to open up the question of whether Nale's observation of the Order of the Stick opened up the evil opposites theme in his mind, followed by him actively recruiting along those lines from the start, or whether it just occurred naturally as a result of the power of plot within the OotS universe and now having discovered that fact Nale has decided to run with it.

[Bongos]

On the plus side, unlike the order of the stick, The linear Guild never had its Leader killed. :smalltongue:

You are right. Going by this logic Elan should clearly be the leader of Oots. The opposite is too scary, Thog being the leader of the Linear Guild.

Or maybe the positions are opposite enough already?

[krossbow]

You are right. Going by this logic Elan should clearly be the leader of Oots. The opposite is too scary, Thog being the leader of the Linear Guild.



Thog secretly has an intelligence of 30, and is just using the Linear guild to pursue his agenda: More ice cream.

[Swordpriest]

ironically, for proclaiming himself to be lawful, Nale has a hard problem maintaining loyalty from his minions. Leeky is probably more powerful than Nale, Thog and Sabine combined, so him leaving was probably one of the biggest blows he's had yet.

A very good point. Leeky Windstaff was one of the best deals Nale's had on a follower yet, and although it's true he's a bit of a loose cannon .... well, the same could be said about Thog, really.

[The Pilgrim]

You are right. Going by this logic Elan should clearly be the leader of Oots. The opposite is too scary, Thog being the leader of the Linear Guild.

Or maybe the positions are opposite enough already?

There is no need to stablish the oposition as Nale-Elan being the leaders of their respective bands. The opposition is stablished as Nale being the leader and planning mind of his group, while Elan is just the comic relief of his.

[Leecros]

By the rules of evil opposites Nale should become less competent as Elan becomes more competent. Granted i don't think Elan will ever become competent to the point where Nale becomes the ~dumb~ one, but it does seem as if Nale is becoming less effective as time goes by.

[Coidzor]

ironically, for proclaiming himself to be lawful, Nale has a hard problem maintaining loyalty from his minions. Leeky is probably more powerful than Nale, Thog and Sabine combined, so him leaving was probably one of the biggest blows he's had yet.

Being an effective leader or one that engenders loyalty in one's followers is independent of alignment. You've either got it or you don't. And Nale, he don't if his screen-time is an accurate assessment.

Also, having followers who are blatantly more powerful than you and who realize it is a good way to lose said followers, especially as LE is stereotypically identified with a strong-man ideology. Or was that most Evil in general having elements of that able to easily pop up.

[NerfTW]

Well in #725 we see Nale fighting his father with what looks like 3 other members of the Linear Guild. Of course we don't know what they are called at that point.

If Nale already had Thog, Sabine, hisself and whatever that kobold's name was (Yikyak?). Isn't it very coincidental that they already matched several members of Oots, and all he had to do was add Hilgya and D'zzitri (or whatever their names were) and he had an "opposites" theme?

I'm going with the "cosmic coincidence" option. The OotS world already runs on drama and plot demands, so it's just another freakish law of nature, like Crystal gaining levels to match Haley.

But Nale definitely didn't know about Elan ahead of time, as we were told by Tarquin. It's likely he didn't know who Elan and the rest of the Order were until he opened that door.

[Leecros]

I'm going with the "cosmic coincidence" option. The OotS world already runs on drama and plot demands, so it's just another freakish law of nature, like Crystal gaining levels to match Haley.

But Nale definitely didn't know about Elan ahead of time, as we were told by Tarquin. It's likely he didn't know who Elan and the rest of the Order were until he opened that door.

Of course, it's a story like any other. What're the chances of Elan running into his father on another continent? One-in-a-million (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)?


IMO it would be very in Nale's character to turn a ridiculous coincidence(such as what we're talking about, evil opposites) and make it out as part of his plan.

[DSCrankshaw]

You are right. Going by this logic Elan should clearly be the leader of Oots. The opposite is too scary, Thog being the leader of the Linear Guild.

Or maybe the positions are opposite enough already?

Ironically, or maybe just foolishly, Nale seems to think (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) of Elan as the leader of the OotS. Note, in his list, "My brother, his followers..." Now obviously he knows that Roy is the real leader, having met them, but because he's so focused on the evil opposite theme, he makes Elan the leader in his head and it just slips out that way. At least that's how I interpret it.

[AstralFire]

By the rules of evil opposites Nale should become less competent as Elan becomes more competent. Granted i don't think Elan will ever become competent to the point where Nale becomes the ~dumb~ one, but it does seem as if Nale is becoming less effective as time goes by.

I've noticed that too.

[Tass]

Of course, it's a story like any other. What're the chances of Elan running into his father on another continent? One-in-a-million (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html)?

Pretty good considering he was moving from city to city, asking questions which got a lot of attention, and his farther had a bounty on his identical twin.

[Snake-Aes]

Thog secretly has an intelligence of 30, and is just using the Linear guild to pursue his agenda: More ice cream.

In Torment, this has actually happened. The king of the dragon liches went into a slumber because he was bored, and promised to hang out and work with whoever woke him so he could play around. His taste for ice creams was commendable. His more compact form was a floating skull with clothes.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8905/modelitosparatarso.gif

[Arcane Hoplite]

Yes, Nale's story is truly one of success.

Well, he isn't dead, the most useful of his party members are with him and alive, and the heroes think he is gone for good. Better than most villains out there.

[HandofShadows]

There is no need to stablish the oposition as Nale-Elan being the leaders of their respective bands. The opposition is stablished as Nale being the leader and planning mind of his group, while Elan is just the comic relief of his.

Nale seems to always give the oppostion a twist. In the case of Nale vs Elan, Nale is the brains of the LG and Elan is the Heart of the OotS. Opposite but different.

[Nimrod's Son]

the most useful of his party members are with him and alive
Leeky was pretty useful.

[Elf Ranger]

I think its a matter of plot, everyone needs someone to fight against, I'm just surprised Elan hasn't said anything about it yet

[Bongos]

Well of course Leeky Windstaff had to leave the Linear Guild. He was too good.

I'm waiting for his reappearance as leader of his own group with that half-elf kid.

[Rinquist]

Nale seems to always give the oppostion a twist. In the case of Nale vs Elan, Nale is the brains of the LG and Elan is the Heart of the OotS. Opposite but different.

This is obviously open to interpretation - but Roy has been more of the "heart" of the Order than Elan has. It's been Roy's overriding mission that has kept the Order united. Haley carried his bones around for months, and all plot points during his absence centered around the reunion of the order - all culminating into Roy's resurrection.

A Thog-led Linear Guild is something I'd be interested in witnessing, however.

[Leecros]

A Thog-led Linear Guild is something I'd be interested in witnessing, however.

i fear for every ice cream stand in the world...

[doodthedud]

Well of course Leeky Windstaff had to leave the Linear Guild. He was too good.

I'm waiting for his reappearance as leader of his own group with that half-elf kid.

good as in good or good as in competent?

[Needle]

But about the opposites, well, Zzdtri was identical to V on Drow and Nale is Elan's twin, but tell me:

Is it really hard to get a bald Half-Orc? :smallconfused:
Or a Grumpy Kobold? or a female Dwarven Cleric? or a Succubus? Because, well, apart from personalities, they're not physically alike to their counterparts. :smalltongue:

[Lateral]

good as in good or good as in competent?

Neither. Good as in powerful. He's NE or CN, probably, and he doesn't seem like the type to be competent as a leader or anything.

...

Perfect Linear Guild material, actually...

Oh, sure, he's badass. But, when he awakened those trees, what did he do? Lead them as a strike force to destroy, say, the police stations so no one can fight them? No! He just buffs 'em and lets 'em wreak havoc! I'm not saying he's LG material because he's not awesome. Thog is awesome. It's because he
A) is a friggin' CARD CARRYING VILLAIN. I didn't notice that before, but you're right- he FRIGGIN' SHOUTS HIS NE ALIGNMENT AT YOU.
B) is an opposite of Durkon.

[hamishspence]

He's NE or CN, probably, and he doesn't seem like the type to be competent as a leader or anything.

He self-identifies as evil here.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0344.html

[factotum]

But about the opposites, well, Zzdtri was identical to V on Drow and Nale is Elan's twin, but tell me:

Is it really hard to get a bald Half-Orc? :smallconfused:
Or a Grumpy Kobold? or a female Dwarven Cleric? or a Succubus? Because, well, apart from personalities, they're not physically alike to their counterparts. :smalltongue:

Nobody ever said they had to be physically identical, did they? The whole point was that they had opposite viewpoints--so Roy is intelligent while Thog is dumb as a stump, Hilgya was an evil cleric who hated the duties required of a dwarf and ran away while Durkon is a good cleric who loves the dutiful dwarven nature and was forcibly ejected from his home, etc.

[Bongos]

Neither. Good as in powerful. He's NE or CN, probably, and he doesn't seem like the type to be competent as a leader or anything.

...

Perfect Linear Guild material, actually...

Yah, even Wikipedia says Leeky is evil. He seems pretty bad ass to me. I think Pompey is going to team up with him. That's two spellcasters, they need a fighter type now at least. Who's around for that team up? Not the bounty hunters or assassins, doesn't really fit.

[AstralStorm]

Yah, even Wikipedia says Leeky is evil. He seems pretty bad ass to me. I think Pompey is going to team up with him. That's two spellcasters, they need a fighter type now at least. Who's around for that team up? Not the bounty hunters or assassins, doesn't really fit.

Well, if you really need meat, he could summon some animals or turn into one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0354.html). But trees (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html) work so much better for this purpose - they're tough and immune to mind spells. Plus he can cover their weakness to fire as shown before.

Also, there is a tavern full of adventurers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0357.html) nearby - I think that's where Nale hired Leeky in the first place.

[Nave Senrag]

It is probably a coincidence, and not the plot involved kind. I would like to point out however,that while it is unlikely the all of Nale's actions thus far could have been part of the plan formed by our three fiend friends who point out Nale specifically as their pawn.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html Raar, facts:smallbiggrin:

[Bongos]

It is probably a coincidence, and not the plot involved kind. I would like to point out however,that while it is unlikely the all of Nale's actions thus far could have been part of the plan formed by our three fiend friends who point out Nale specifically as their pawn.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html Raar, facts:smallbiggrin:
I think the Linear Guild may have only become IFCC's pawns in regards to the gates after Sabine plane shifted and told them about the gates a while back, thus bringing the fiends into the game as another side.