PDA

View Full Version : Ungearable?



Admiral Squish
2010-05-22, 05:52 PM
So. I'm looking at a shapeshifter druid. Kinda frontline-ish. The build seems to be coming along fine. But my problem is I honestly can't think of a single thing to spend my gold on that would actually be useful.

Since I intend to be shapeshifted for battle, all my 'held, worn, or carried gear melds into your new form and becomes nonfunctional until you return to your normal form'. So, no armor... no weapons... no magic items... What is left for me to spend my money on? There's some minorly useful out-of battle things he could buy, but I cant think of anything that would be anywhere near that useful.

Should I just say 'screw it' and pick up VoP? At least those bonuses would apply. It could work with my flavor, too, having this guy give all his dungeon take to his clan wouldn't surprise me.

AstralFire
2010-05-22, 05:53 PM
Wilding clasps?

The Mentalist
2010-05-22, 05:54 PM
Wilding Clasps from I don't remember where (Someone else will be able to tell you.) Will allow you to keep gear bonuses.

Edit: Ninja and EEEE it's AstralFire!

Heliomance
2010-05-22, 05:54 PM
Wilding Clasps. 3.0 item, from Masters of the Wild. May have been updated in one of the FR books, not sure. 4000gp IIRC, attach it to an item and that item remains functional while in wildshape.

AstralFire
2010-05-22, 05:55 PM
Ninjaing Clasps?

PId6
2010-05-22, 05:57 PM
Wilding Clasps are in the MIC.

However, by RAW they only work with Wild Shape, so unless your DM specifically allows it, it doesn't do anything for Shapeshifter Druids.

You can always just drop all your gear, shapeshift, and pick them up again, if you want to go that route. Might be considered cheesy though, and occasionally a bit troublesome.

Dr.Epic
2010-05-22, 05:58 PM
Yeah, you might want to go VoP. Druid it one of the few classes that can make it work without sacrificing anything.

Milskidasith
2010-05-22, 05:59 PM
Yeah, you might want to go VoP. Druid it one of the few classes that can make it work without sacrificing anything.

Except all useful gear. Again, Wilding Clasps.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 06:01 PM
Should I just say 'screw it' and pick up VoP

There is never a circumstance where taking Vow of Poverty is a good idea.

Take your stuff off before you shapechange, then put it back on. At least, the stuff that will fit - and everything but weapons and armour will fit, because they explicitly resize.

The Mentalist
2010-05-22, 06:01 PM
Ninjaing Clasps?

Are those Wilding Clasps with Hide and Move Silent bonuses?

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 06:02 PM
You can also take psychoactive skins, from the Expanded Psionics Handbook (and the SRD) and Complete Psionic. It's a standard action to don one (or take one off, or swap one with another; you can wear 3 at a time, though only one is active at any given moment), which you can do regardless of form, and use after you've wildshaped. Ioun stones, as well.

Wilding clasps, of course.

Also tomes of stat adjustment.

Grab a handy haversack, fill with scrolls, and put it on after you've gone bear. Heck, you can wear most things in most of your forms, so long as there are four limbs with a few digits at the end of each, a waist and torso, and a head with standard sensory apparatus (face, eyes, crown of the head).

Of course, you could ask your DM to modify Vow of Poverty to grant you Magic of Incarnum feats, instead of exalted crappy feats.

AstralFire
2010-05-22, 06:03 PM
Are those Wilding Clasps with Hide and Move Silent bonuses?

Sure. We'll roll with that. Just don't pay any mind to the sharpened edges, and they are definitely not moving subtly on their own from time to time.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 06:05 PM
There is never a circumstance where taking Vow of Poverty is a good idea.Except in nearly-no-wealth campaigns. I've been in a few. Also, incarnum builds (because you have trouble finding places to bind all your soulmelds anyway). But beyond that, yeah. Druids are better with gear but can go without (as can psionic characters), but really only no-wealth campaigns and incarnum characters may be better off with VoP than without.


Take your stuff off before you shapechange, then put it back on. At least, the stuff that will fit - and everything but weapons and armour will fit, because they explicitly resize.Again, agreed.

KillianHawkeye
2010-05-22, 06:06 PM
There's also the Beastskin armor property in Complete Adventurer, although it probably needs to be modified to account for the at-will nature of Shapeshift.

Lev
2010-05-22, 06:07 PM
There's many ways around this really:
1) Mundane storage, like costly spell components or healing herbs or what have you, as long as it isn't magic you get to truck it around with you anyway, and if you're in a large form you can even carry a heavy load of junk without being encumbered.
2) Buy custom-fit barding for your shape of choice, don post-shape.
3) Be charitable//VoP
4) Use funds to start building up your world-effecting status, fund a guild or order and start breaking it in that way to buff up your leadership feat. You may not be able to use +10 ring of jump or whathaveyou while shaped, but all druids could use +10 redshirts of scouting. Think about it, who needs a gather information skill when you lead a guild of level 1 rogues?

Heliomance
2010-05-22, 06:07 PM
The trouble with that is that it requires you to anticipate combat. At the absolute minimum, it would be three rounds to divest yourself of all your magic items, wildshape, and put everything on again. If you're ambushed, you simply don't have time.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 06:09 PM
The trouble with that is that it requires you to anticipate combat. At the absolute minimum, it would be three rounds to divest yourself of all your magic items, wildshape, and put everything on again. If you're ambushed, you simply don't have time.Then VoP with incarnum feats, if you can swing it.

That'd totally be worth it for a shapeshifter. Totally.

Lev
2010-05-22, 06:10 PM
The trouble with that is that it requires you to anticipate combat. At the absolute minimum, it would be three rounds to divest yourself of all your magic items, wildshape, and put everything on again. If you're ambushed, you simply don't have time.
I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME BEAR ARMOR IS.
http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2007/10/10/golden-compass-poster-2.jpg


Rawr!..? RAWR! =D

Captain Six
2010-05-22, 06:14 PM
You could be the player that hoards up on utility magic items. Focus less on buffing magic items and more on toys that are pulled out to save the day. You know, fun stuff. Like Ring Gates. Throw one into the ocean and see what happens. Tree Tokens, Immovable Rods, Rod of Wonders, Portable Hole, Belt of Masculinity/Femininity, I could go on.

Admiral Squish
2010-05-22, 06:16 PM
The trouble with that is that it requires you to anticipate combat. At the absolute minimum, it would be three rounds to divest yourself of all your magic items, wildshape, and put everything on again. If you're ambushed, you simply don't have time.

Basically, what he said, but add in a lack of opposable thumbs in shifted form. How do I fasten a belt? With my wolf teeth?

I will look into that incarnum feats option, tho.

As for wildling clasps and beastskin armor, I'll ask about them. Don't know how it'll go over.

Greenish
2010-05-22, 06:20 PM
Since I intend to be shapeshifted for battle, all my 'held, worn, or carried gear melds into your new form and becomes nonfunctional until you return to your normal form'. So, no armor... no weapons... no magic items... What is left for me to spend my money on?Animated shield.

Lev
2010-05-22, 06:20 PM
Basically, what he said, but add in a lack of opposable thumbs in shifted form. How do I fasten a belt? With my wolf teeth?

I will look into that incarnum feats option, tho.

As for wildling clasps and beastskin armor, I'll ask about them. Don't know how it'll go over.
I'm sure with the leadership feat a couple of 10str'ers could do it.

PId6
2010-05-22, 06:23 PM
Basically, what he said, but add in a lack of opposable thumbs in shifted form. How do I fasten a belt? With my wolf teeth?
Well technically, "you can choose the exact look your shapeshifted form takes," so there's no reason why you can't have opposable thumbs. It might make your wolf look weird, but you can do it. :smalltongue:

Gamerlord
2010-05-22, 06:27 PM
CA has some sort of weapon for shape shifters, can't remember exactly though. Will check.

EDIT: Nevermind someone else said it already.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-22, 06:41 PM
(Lesser, Greater) Metamagic Rods of Extend are good, use them to make your buffs last longer and then switch to a combat form. Spells like Longstrider, Barkskin, Bull's Strength, and Produce Flame would be good. If you cast Produce Flame and then shapeshift you'll still be holding the charge on a touch spell, so anything you hit with a natural weapon will take additional fire damage.

Metamagic Rods of Maximize and/or Empower would be decent as well. Switch out of form and cast an offensive spell, then on the following round cast another spell and shift back. Maybe also get a Circlet of Rapid Casting from MIC, so you can get two buffs cast on the first round and then shift into a combat form and attack on the second round.

Get items which are useful to you when you're not shifted, since there is currently no game mechanic which would allow you to retain an item's benefit when shapeshifted. Wilding Clasp specifies "when you use wild shape" so they will be of no benefit when using Shapeshift. The only real option to gaining bonuses when shapeshifted would be using spells to buff yourself, and maybe taking Vow of Poverty since its benefits are always active.

Heliomance
2010-05-22, 06:49 PM
People, this is a real game, not TO. Wilding clasps may well function with Shapeshift, under the "ask your DM nicely" clause.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 06:53 PM
People, this is a real game, not TO. Wilding clasps may well function with Shapeshift, under the "ask your DM nicely" clause.

Finding a solution that actually works is generally better than hoping the DM will houserule it in your favour.

Heliomance
2010-05-22, 06:56 PM
Put it this way: shapeshift is weaker than wildshape. Wilding clasps make wildshape even more powerful. The OP has voluntarily taken a weaker class feature, why nerf him further by denying wilding clasps? Asking the DM for things is a perfectly valid tactic. It might not work, but in this case there's no good reason to allow wilding clasps for wildshape and not for shapeshift.

Vizzerdrix
2010-05-22, 07:15 PM
Basically, what he said, but add in a lack of opposable thumbs in shifted form. How do I fasten a belt? With my wolf teeth?


Beget Bogun. Make a few to help you don armor after you change.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 07:41 PM
Beget Bogun. Make a few to help you don armor after you change.

Party members.

Come on, seriously. You have all these dudes who'd like you to do your best. Why wouldn't they help you get into your armour?

For that matter, don't some sorts of armour require help to get into anyway? I seriously doubt anyone can get into full plate on their own.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-22, 07:47 PM
Just get drop a few thousand gold on a bunch of Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness), and apply it to eight times as many Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) spell foci. Spend a few days of downtime spending all of your spell slots to cast that, it should last about ten hours per caster level. Take Extend, Persistent, and DMM: Persistent, and use your Bone Talismans to power it. You could even get Nightsticks and they would probably function as long as you have at least one Bone Talisman left. The Unguent never wears off, so you can recast it using the same long-duration spell foci as many times as you want.

arguskos
2010-05-22, 08:00 PM
For that matter, don't some sorts of armour require help to get into anyway? I seriously doubt anyone can get into full plate on their own.
Actually, there is no prohibition to putting full plate on by yourself, but, you have to don it hastily, meaning you suffer an extra -1 ACP. :smallwink:

Check the armor section of the PBH for details.

Irreverent Fool
2010-05-22, 08:11 PM
Actually, there is no prohibition to putting full plate on by yourself, but, you have to don it hastily, meaning you suffer an extra -1 ACP. :smallwink:

Check the armor section of the PBH for details.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Yuki knows this. That penalty sounds like a prohibition to me. Doing something wrong (donning armor hastily) is not the same as doing it.


Except in nearly-no-wealth campaigns. I've been in a few.

Nearly-no-wealth? I'd have a hard time saying you're still playing D&D (the game about killing enemies and taking their stuff). I've been there, too. It's really a different game altogether and makes certain classes and feats much more powerful while widening the gap between casters and non-casters even further. If you know what you're up against, MAYBE VoP is worth it, but even then, when you do find those rare magic items, you're still screwed.

A ring of arming (MIC 122) might be useful. It allows a character to store equipped armor and weapons and replace them with whatever set is currently stored in the ring. Deck yourself out in Bear Armor, etc, while shapeshifted and then put the equipment in the ring. When you're about to shift, take off the ring, shift, and put it back on (possibly with help because you can't actually be a wolf with opposable thumbs), and activate the ring.

obnoxious
sig

arguskos
2010-05-22, 08:21 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Yuki knows this. That penalty sounds like a prohibition to me. Doing something wrong (donning armor hastily) is not the same as doing it.
Well, he said "I doubt anyone can get into full plate on their own" which isn't true, or, the rules would state you simply couldn't do it. That was the only thing I was sayin'. :smallwink:

Also, a -1 ACP is not really a prohibitive penalty, especially when talking about full plate, an armor that already has a massive ACP.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 08:45 PM
Well, he said "I doubt anyone can get into full plate on their own" which isn't true, or, the rules would state you simply couldn't do it. That was the only thing I was sayin'. :smallwink:

I do in fact know the armour rules and you are in fact just being pedantic here.

arguskos
2010-05-22, 08:48 PM
I do in fact know the armour rules and you are in fact just being pedantic here.
...uh, sorry? I wasn't trying to be pedantic, you stated something, I responded thinking you may have in good faith missed it, and now I'm getting insulted for my attempt to aid someone I thought had missed something. :smallconfused:

I think I missed a joke or something, so, perhaps it's wiser to bow out before I get blasted further.

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 08:57 PM
...I didn't intend that as an insult. :smallconfused:

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 09:16 PM
Nearly-no-wealth? I'd have a hard time saying you're still playing D&D (the game about killing enemies and taking their stuff). I've been there, too. It's really a different game altogether and makes certain classes and feats much more powerful while widening the gap between casters and non-casters even further. If you know what you're up against, MAYBE VoP is worth it, but even then, when you do find those rare magic items, you're still screwed.The sad thing is that it was done to 'tone down the casters'. :smallfrown:

Yuki Akuma
2010-05-22, 09:22 PM
The sad thing is that it was done to 'tone down the casters'. :smallfrown:

I want to play in this man's games.

Call it morbid curiosity.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 09:35 PM
I want to play in this man's games.

Call it morbid curiosity.No, I don't think you do. He's the one that sent the party up against a fully-powered Malar at level 16. Two party members (out of twelve) had major artifacts for weapons and armors, nine had their starting gear (as in, starting gear at level 1), and me, who joined the party at level 16, who was the only level-appropriate WBL character there (and to punish me for the impertinence of having made my character according to the rules, my cleric was killed by Malar first - not that he'd said anything about starting wealth, mind you - about 20 minutes into my first session with them; no rolls or anything, just divine splatter).

AstralFire
2010-05-22, 09:37 PM
Reminds me of my first time playing D&D ever. The DM said I had to start out at level 1 even though everyone was level 17. But then loaded me with like a billion major and minor artifacts. I was like "dude... I can't hit anything... and a stiff breeze'll kill me..."

Ozymandias9
2010-05-22, 09:39 PM
There is never a circumstance where taking Vow of Poverty is a good idea.

In fairness, if you aren't going to use gear anyways...

But yeah, take it off and put it back on. See if the DM will allow wild armor, wilding clasps, or the wildshape amulet to work with the variant. There are also a couple items in Savage species you should look into (I seem to remember weapons wielded with tails).

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 09:42 PM
Reminds me of my first time playing D&D ever. The DM said I had to start out at level 1 even though everyone was level 17. But then loaded me with like a billion major and minor artifacts. I was like "dude... I can't hit anything... and a stiff breeze'll kill me..."Oh, the guys that had the artifacts? They had multiple weapons each that only they could use. So they had like 16 +20 falchions apiece that divided every time one critical'd (increasing by an additional +1 each time they did), and they were all intelligent, and feebleminded anyone but them who so much as looked at them crosseyed.

<.<

>.>

Favoritism? What's that?

AstralFire
2010-05-22, 09:46 PM
Oh, the guys that had the artifacts? They had multiple weapons each that only they could use. So they had like 16 +20 falchions apiece that divided every time one critical'd (increasing by an additional +1 each time they did), and they were all intelligent, and feebleminded anyone but them who so much as looked at them crosseyed.

<.<

>.>

Favoritism? What's that?

The hell?

See, my DM wasn't playing favorites. He was just an idiot.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 09:54 PM
The hell?

See, my DM wasn't playing favorites. He was just an idiot.Well, to put it bluntly, this guy was both an idiot and a jerk.

Admiral Squish
2010-05-22, 10:04 PM
Anywho.

Right now, I'm level three. Anyone have an option for gearing that doesn't cost a bajillion?

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-22, 10:08 PM
Anywho.

Right now, I'm level three. Anyone have an option for gearing that doesn't cost a bajillion?A rucksack and as many alchemist's fires and vials of acid as you can carry. Also, marbles. And bottles of vegetable oil. And so on.

Captain Six
2010-05-22, 10:55 PM
Anywho.

Right now, I'm level three. Anyone have an option for gearing that doesn't cost a bajillion?

I'm going to repeat tree tokens. I have no idea what they are used for but I find them amazing.

Ozymandias9
2010-05-22, 11:29 PM
Anywho.

Right now, I'm level three. Anyone have an option for gearing that doesn't cost a bajillion?

I would see how the DM feels about Wild armor interacting with the variant. I should be able to afford some soon.

dspeyer
2010-05-23, 12:32 AM
A couple other thoughts:

Utility scrolls. Only prepare the spells you'll want in battle, and fill a haversack with scrolls of everything else you might want to cast. Standard WBL buys a lot of scolls.

Permanenced spells. Hire someone to cast Magic Fang on you and make it stick.

Tome of Clear Thoughts.

Just take VoP. It's not optimal, but you're still Tier 1. You're not likely to be sitting around bored because you can't contribute. It might give you some RP hooks.