Psicrystal Questions...

[mjames]

I am in a 3.5 campaign where I am currently a psion8/flayspawn6 (fun and more story-driven less about optimization). Since Psicrystals gain HD and therefore feats, do they also gain xp that I could use for lets say crafting items and/or constructs?

Also, I took leadership and will be grabbing levels of Thrallherd, does leadership on a psicrystal gain it regular followers/cohort or would they be construct followers/cohort?

Thanks for the help everyone. 2nd post/first thread, feel free to tell me how I did.

[Greenish]

I am in a 3.5 campaign where I am currently a psion8/flayspawn6 (fun and more story-driven less about optimization). Since Psicrystals gain HD and therefore feats, do they also gain xp that I could use for lets say crafting items and/or constructs?No. Psicrystal's HD is determined by your class levels in psion, not by experience.

Also, I took leadership and will be grabbing levels of Thrallherd, does leadership on a psicrystal gain it regular followers/cohort or would they be construct followers/cohort?Regular followers and a cohort. You also lose all the benefits from Leadership on your character when you take the first level of Thrallherd.

[Ferrin]

Psicrystals don't gain experience, there HD are equal to there masters levels in psionic classes. As they do gain HD they can get feats, by RAW.

Thrallherd specificaly doesn't stack with Leadership, so that's a no go. I'd just take more levels of Slayer and Psion afterwards though, seeing as you can't get the twofold master anymore and the other abilities are underwhelming.


No. Psicrystal's HD is determined by your class levels in psion, not by experience.
Regular followers and a cohort. You also lose all the benefits from Leadership on your character when you take the first level of Thrallherd.

Not just psion, any manifesting class they have and any PRC's that add manifester levels stack as well.

[mjames]

Thanks. I'll drop the thrallherd idea. I'm still toying around with the characters progression on a level by level basis anyway. Letting story drive build in this case.

New Question formulated, but most likely poorly worded this late at night...
Since the crystal doesn't have xp to use on making items, will it use my xp or craft the items without the need of xp as an NPC. (Always wondered how the local smithy had enough xp to craft magical swords, but he's only a level 5 merchant? :-/ )

[Ferrin]

I don't think there are any rules for a psicrystal crafting things. But you need a manifester level to take crafting feats anyway, which a Psicrystal doesn't have.

[mjames]

I don't think there are any rules for a psicrystal crafting things. But you need a manifester level to take crafting feats anyway, which a Psicrystal doesn't have.

You could however have the crystal take the general Wild Talent feat,which does allow for the taking of psionic item reation feats, designation as a psionic character and 2pp. Will that lead into a bigger can of worms?

[Ferrin]

No, it still doesn't grant a manifester level. :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Not just psion, any manifesting class they have and any PRC's that add manifester levels stack as well.Is that stated somewhere? The SRD just says:
A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.Of course, it's reasonable to rule it otherwise, so there's probably an errata somewhere. I don't know where though.

[Ferrin]

That's the SRD, the XPH states it in a different way. I forgot if I'm allowed to quote it or not. :smallredface:

[Greenish]

That's the SRD, the XPH states it in a different way. I forgot if I'm allowed to quote it or not. :smallredface:The OGL material from WotC page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) has the exactly same phrasing.

But I'll take your word for it.

[mjames]

No, it still doesn't grant a manifester level. :smallbiggrin:

Not trying to be contrary (just trying to be confused it seems), but the Wild Talent feat in EPH specifically states that the Benefit is being considered a psionic character. Including the ability to take psion feats, metapsionic feats, and item creation feats.

Why would they mention the item creation feats if they were still impossible?

Side-note: Going along with the not directly quoting thing. I'm staring at the expanded right now, and the SRD version is word for word (parentheticals and all) the same as page 207 in the expanded. Not quite sure what you were thinking about quoting Ferrin.

[Ferrin]

"Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic
classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the
owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities." ~Expanded Psionics Handbook, Page 22

[mjames]

On that note, I am going to go back to my slumber. But one more bright idea to complicate things more. There is a feat from original psionhb that gives you +4 to your manifester level... Need to look at those prereqs first however, but frankly too many books in the bed makes it alot less comfy.

Good night all.

P.S. If things keep on at this rate, I expect to wake to two or three more arguments and a hearty mix of rule-bending on top of the already plausible idea to have my psycrystal take assume super-natural ability feat of a greater doppleganger or devourer of some sort who then eats a psion therefore qualifying it in the class it needs....

[Greenish]

Not trying to be contrary (just trying to be confused it seems), but the Wild Talent feat in EPH specifically states that the Benefit is being considered a psionic character. Including the ability to take psion feats, metapsionic feats, and item creation feats.

Why would they mention the item creation feats if they were still impossible?Even if Wild Talent gave you a manifester level (which it doesn't), you couldn't qualify for the item creation feats, since they require several (upwards from 3) manifester levels. Why the feat bothers to mention them is anyone's guess.

Side-note: Going along with the not directly quoting thing. I'm staring at the expanded right now, and the SRD version is word for word (parentheticals and all) the same as page 207 in the expanded. Not quite sure what you were thinking about quoting Ferrin.RAW is full of contradictions. They may say one thing in one place and another somewhere else.

[Edit]:
On that note, I am going to go back to my slumber. But one more bright idea to complicate things more. There is a feat from original psionhb that gives you +4 to your manifester level... Need to look at those prereqs first however, but frankly too many books in the bed makes it alot less comfy.Practiced Manifester from Complete Psionic specifically advances manifester level of the selected class.

[mjames]

"Psicrystal abilities are based on the owner’s levels in psionic
classes. Levels from other classes do not count toward the
owner’s level for purposes of psicrystal abilities." ~Expanded Psionics Handbook, Page 22

Keyword Abilities. As far as it's hd and subsequent feats, they are under the actual stats of a psycrystal. Read the first paragraph of Psicrystal on page 21. This is establish
ed (and boy do I hate to use this term) RAW. Literally.

Now with that arguments metaphysical horse very dead, can we please stop beating it?

[Ferrin]

On that note, I am going to go back to my slumber. But one more bright idea to complicate things more. There is a feat from original psionhb that gives you +4 to your manifester level... Need to look at those prereqs first however, but frankly too many books in the bed makes it alot less comfy.

Good night all.

P.S. If things keep on at this rate, I expect to wake to two or three more arguments and a hearty mix of rule-bending on top of the already plausible idea to have my psycrystal take assume super-natural ability feat of a greater doppleganger or devourer of some sort who then eats a psion therefore qualifying it in the class it needs....

Practiced Manifester is the feat you're looking for, I think. It's reprinted in Complete Psionic.

Yeah, please don't break the game. :smallbiggrin:


Keyword Abilities. As far as it's hd and subsequent feats, they are under the actual stats of a psycrystal. Read the first paragraph of Psicrystal on page 21. This is establish
ed (and boy do I hate to use this term) RAW. Literally.

Now with that arguments metaphysical horse very dead, can we please stop beating it?

Please tell me which book you're using. Because I don't think it's the EXPANDED Psionics Handbook, which is the 3.5 update.

[2xMachina]

Now, if you're a Thrallherd, and your Psicrystal has the leadership feat, it works.

[Ferrin]

Now, if you're a Thrallherd, and your Psicrystal has the leadership feat, it works.

Aside from the fact that no sane DM would allow this. :smallbiggrin:

It would help if you told use the reason why you want to do these broken things, we might be able to help with alternatives. Or are you doing it just to break the game? :smallfrown:

[mjames]

It's expanded psionics handbook,Ferrin. If you have it there in nearby, page 21 is the start of the Psicrystal info. Page 22 gives the saving throws and special abilities that are dependent on your total psionic classes. For the full stats of a psicrystal, page 21 tells you to reference page 207. Then we flip to 207, where it outlines the physical stats of the creature.

*pulls out sledge-hammer to continue beating that poor, dead horse*

So best advice for psicrystal in general in this type of campaign is take leadership to nearly double my followers, and use some polymorph beatstick trick feats?

[2xMachina]

Want brokenness?

Your psicrystal's cohort? They take leadership too. Same with your thralls.

[mjames]

Aside from the fact that no sane DM would allow this. :smallbiggrin:

It would help if you told use the reason why you want to do these broken things, we might be able to help with alternatives. Or are you doing it just to break the game? :smallfrown:

No, actually this build,seeing as it's a solo campaign with my rule-abiding significant other as dm, is what I would considered loaded with too much flavor and not enough power.

I took leadership for cohort to help with soloing... Also,from a role-playing side my character's backstory involved politics, so he is actually at the moment trying to take over Shadowdale, then once he's fairly epic, he'll attempt to unite the dales. Psycrystal tricks are just icing on the awesome-cake.

[Ferrin]

It's expanded psionics handbook,Ferrin. If you have it there in nearby, page 21 is the start of the Psicrystal info. Page 22 gives the saving throws and special abilities that are dependent on your total psionic classes. For the full stats of a psicrystal, page 21 tells you to reference page 207. Then we flip to 207, where it outlines the physical stats of the creature.

*pulls out sledge-hammer to continue beating that poor, dead horse*

So best advice for psicrystal in general in this type of campaign is take leadership to nearly double my followers, and use some polymorph beatstick trick feats?

Allright, so for all purposes except hit dice it uses your levels in manifesting classes. Which is obviously an oversight. Makes me hate wotc's sloppy editing.


No, actually this build,seeing as it's a solo campaign with my rule-abiding significant other as dm, is what I would considered loaded with too much flavor and not enough power.

I took leadership for cohort to help with soloing... Also,from a role-playing side my character's backstory involved politics, so he is actually at the moment trying to take over Shadowdale, then once he's fairly epic, he'll attempt to unite the dales. Psycrystal tricks are just icing on the awesome-cake.

Allright, it's a solo campaign. That makes me feel less bad about you wanting to use a broken feat. You could take the Mind Seed power to make everyone copies of you, with more thrallherds, psicrystals with leadership etc. etc.

[Greenish]

…what I would considered loaded with too much flavor and not enough power.True, psicrystal isn't a familiar per se.

[Edit]:
Allright, so for all purposes except hit dice it uses your levels in manifesting classes. Which is obviously an oversight. Makes me hate wotc's sloppy editing.At least that can be put down to poor editing. Try to sort out unarmed strikes/natural attacks.

[Ferrin]

True, psicrystal isn't a familiar per se.

[Edit]:At least that can be put down to poor editing. Try to sort out unarmed strikes/natural attacks.

Can I pass on that one?

[mjames]

Want brokenness?

Your psicrystal's cohort? They take leadership too. Same with your thralls.

Lol! I enjoy that tactic, but if I overly abuse a trick, she'll either take it away or kill the charcter with it. But i'm pretty sure I can swing double leadership. She'd probably allow me to take thrallherd, let my crystal have leadership and I could psychic chirurgrey myself to drop leadership :-)

[mjames]

Allright, so for all purposes except hit dice it uses your levels in manifesting classes. Which is obviously an oversight. Makes me hate wotc's sloppy editing.



Allright, it's a solo campaign. That makes me feel less bad about you wanting to use a broken feat. You could take the Mind Seed power to make everyone copies of you, with more thrallherds, psicrystals with leadership etc. etc.

Thought about mind seed, but this is a chaotic evil character who is trying to unite the dales under an iron fist of tyranny. If I even mind seed one person, my dm will send them back at me later in the compaign as my character with no fluff all business. I'd be sewing the mindseeds of my own undoing. *yay wordplay*

[Ferrin]

Thought about mind seed, but this is a chaotic evil character who is trying to unite the dales under an iron fist of tyranny. If I even mind seed one person, my dm will send them back at me later in the compaign as my character with no fluff all business. I'd be sewing the mindseeds of my own undoing. *yay wordplay*

Except that, you know, it depends on what your character would do. If he knows what happens, the Mind Seeds do as well. Why then would he undo everything he planned? In fact, I think he'd be more inclined to expand his domain to more then just the Dale.

Assuming ofcourse that your character is Inteligent, but he's a Psion, so he'd better be.

[crizh]

Host Feats.

They are in CPsi and give real Manifester Levels equal to half HD. This allows a Psicrystal to learn Item Creation feats perfectly legally. I've been using it for about two years in my Erudite character. We don't get any downtime so all our crafting is done at night by the Psicrystals. I still need to supply the pre-requisite powers and xp, or I have my thrall do it for me....

[Ferrin]

They don't qualify for taking Host feats, I quote; "Host feats can only be taken by a character who is acting as a physical host to another psionic entity.-snip-" ~Complete Psionic, page 60

It's not RAW, but if your DM allows it then sure.

[Prime32]

Hidden Talent (XPH only, not SRD) grants a single 1st-level power at ML1. With Practiced Manifester you can make this ML5.

[crizh]

"Host feats can only be taken by a character who is acting as a physical host to another psionic entity.-snip-" ~Complete Psionic, page 60


That's the fluff. Anyone can take a Host Feat. They do so by accepting said psionic entity. A psionic entity that has no crunch whatsoever.

[Greenish]

Hidden Talent (XPH only, not SRD) grants a single 1st-level power at ML1. With Practiced Manifester you can make this ML5.I don't think that works by RAW, since you need a manifester class to benefit from the feat.

That's the fluff. Anyone can take a Host Feat. They do so by accepting said psionic entity. A psionic entity that has no crunch whatsoever.So the quori want you to think…

[Ferrin]

That's the fluff. Anyone can take a Host Feat. They do so by accepting said psionic entity. A psionic entity that has no crunch whatsoever.

By that logic the requirements for exalted or vile feats is just fluff. :smalltongue:

[crizh]

By that logic the requirements for exalted or vile feats is just fluff. :smalltongue:

Well, apart from the alignment requirements, yeah?

[Ferrin]

That's the point in D&D, fluff requirements are RAW, same with ur-priest. Ofcourse you can reflavor them, but it doesn't mean it's not raw that you can't take it without meeting the requirements as written.

[Optimystik]

I am in a 3.5 campaign where I am currently a psion8/flayspawn6 (fun and more story-driven less about optimization).


But i'm pretty sure I can swing double leadership.

Wait, what? :smallconfused:

[Ferrin]

Wait, what? :smallconfused:

For your own sanity, assume only commoners and aristocrats. :smallbiggrin:

[crizh]

you can't take it without meeting the requirements as written.

And as that requirement is purely fluff there is no mechanical impediment to you doing so. It's a story-telling requirement. You tell the appropriate story, the DM gives the thumbs up and you take the feat.

In my case I've embedded more than just the bare minimum amount of my own mind in my Psicrystal, a shard of my own psionic power capable of independently manifesting the relevant powers once per day. All fluff but makes for some cool role-playing opportunities.

[Ferrin]

Didn't say no one would allow refluffing, I'm a big fan of it myself. But... The OP wanted a raw way to do things, which what you said isn't. It's not that it's bad, just not raw. :smallbiggrin:

[crizh]

It's not that it's bad, just not raw. :smallbiggrin:

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

I've been quite clear in my assertion that it is indeed completely RAW.