Vermin lord/Master of flies

[Reptar]

I'm running an evil campaign of dnd 3.5 and most of my players are rather optimized, I recently killed off one of their characters and he's looking to replace it.
He likes the feel of both prcs Vermin Lord (BoVD) and Master of Flies (SS) and he asked me for help boosting a Swarm Lord style character to the same level of power of his allies.
Please give me all your best ideas and I'll pick witch ones to suggest.
Thank you.

[Ferrin]

Don't forget the feat Dark Speech, it has a use which is quite flavorful. Warlock has several invocations which are perfect for this kind of character:

Spiderwalk (Complete Arcane)
Summon Swarm (Complete Arcane)
Fell Flight reflavored to bug wings (Complete Arcane)
Hungry Darkness Reflavored to Insects (Complete Arcane)
Tenacious Plague (Complete Arcane)
Dark Discorporation (Complete Arcane)

Crawling Eye (Complete Mage)

Spider-Shape (Drow of the Underdark)
Sudden Swarm (Drow of the Underdark)



But if he doesn't want to play a warlock... Master of Flies is right out, it's just bad. Not much to say about vermin Lord, depends on your entry. He could play a completely vemin focused druid though. Spider Shape ACF from Drow of the Underdark(Just allow it for anyone, it's a nerf anyway), Child of Winter(?) from an eberron sourcebook to be able to summon vermin with summon nature's ally.

[Reptar]

He realy likes swarms, and oddly enough he's arachnophobic, though it isn't a problem in game. He mostly just wants to cover the villages they've been raiding in a carpet of bugs.
Thanks for the warning against master of flies. Warlock might work but I'm still trying to incorporate the prcs he showed me.
The most optimized thing I can think of for him is: Warlock5 Ur-Priest4 Vermin-Lord10
I'm actually not to familiar with warlocks.

Any good feats or races you recommend? We've got a half-ogre warforged fighter who hits people through walls. And I made the mistake of allowing the rogue to take levels in avenging executioner, he's going to die soon too.

[Ferrin]

Half-Ogre isn't a template, just so you know.

Avenging Exectutioner really isn't overpowered, it just has some flavorful abilties which can be used well against humanoids. However, if you put him against anything immune to mind effecting or crits he's severely crippled.

Vermin Lord/Ur-Priest would work, though putting a full-caster in a group like that is asking for trouble.

Warlock is actualy one of the simplest classes to understand and use. Read it once and you know most of it allready.

[Reptar]

Half-Ogre isn't a template, just so you know.
It was slipped in from dungeon mag, I didn't catch it's origin in time. He already paid for it in game.


Avenging Exectutioner really isn't overpowered, it just has some flavorful abilties which can be used well against humanoids. However, if you put him against anything immune to mind effecting or crits he's severely crippled.
That's the problem, he hides from anything he can't fight and everything he's good at killing runs away in couple of rounds.


Vermin Lord/Ur-Priest would work, though putting a full-caster in a group like that is asking for trouble.
The real problem is that it gets him into vermin lord too late. We're currently rather low level.


Warlock is actualy one of the simplest classes to understand and use. Read it once and you know most of it allready.
I can't find a table of invocations per day. Or is that the "Invocations Known?"

He seems to want to spam swarms.

[Gorbash]

Hm, not really relevant to the topic, but it made me twitch, so I gotta comment on this one:


I'm running an evil campaign of dnd 3.5 and most of my players are rather optimized


And I made the mistake of allowing the rogue to take levels in avenging executioner, he's going to die soon too.

So, you're intentionally punishing your players for taking the time to re their characters and you're killing them off for it? :smallconfused:

I'd rather not get into the fact that, by the standards of this board, they aren't optimized and it sounds to me that you just can't deal with their characters and it's a really bad DMing call to kill them for it.

[Reptar]

The rogue's not having fun with his character and soon after he gives me another sheet to properly review I'll kill off his old one.
I warned them that there would be a high death rate to enforce the sense of danger. People can't go around burning down towns with out in game repercussions.

Constructive criticism only please.

[Greenish]

It was slipped in from dungeon mag, I didn't catch it's origin in time. He already paid for it in game.How could a construct be a half-anything?
I can't find a table of invocations per day. Or is that the "Invocations Known?"Invocations are at-will. That is to say, you can never run out of them.

[Reptar]

oh excellent thank you greenish that's Wonderful Warlock 20 may be the way to go then.
Unless there's a way to teach them giant vermin.

[Prodan]

He likes the feel of both prcs Vermin Lord (BoVD) and Master of Flies (SS) and he asked me for help boosting a Swarm Lord style character to the same level of power of his allies.

Looks like he wants to be...

The Lord of the Flies.

:smallcool:

YEEEEEEEAAAAHHH!!!!!!

[Reptar]

I already told him he should name the character Ralph. He wouldn't have any of it. It's got the extra meaning because vermin lord vomits bugs.

[Greenish]

oh excellent thank you greenish that's Wonderful Warlock 20 may be the way to go then.Probably not, if the other players are any competent in optimizing. At best you'd be a rather weak artificer wannabe.

[Jair Barik]

Perhpas you could staple the swarm shifter template onto him? Its meant to only be applied to undead but you could probably alter it as needed. Jist is that you can change into a swarm of X as an action (standard i think). Examples given (Libris mortis) include spiders, bats, rats, blood and sand as well as a couple of others (I think maybe scarabs)

[Reptar]

Again, I'm just now becoming familiar with warlock.
And I'd really like to keep the vermin lord it's got exactly the flavor he was asking for. Warlock sounds cool though, but it doen't have the fort save for urpriest or the giant vermin for vermin lord.
I may have to drop it entirely, though I do like Ferrin's ideas.
Swarm shifter doesn't seem too broken and it fits the style, if the necromancer ever cast's 'raise dead on him I'll consider it.

The easiest entry into vermin lord is cleric/druid 7. But I feel I can do better.

[Wabbajack]

You're the GM, just change the prerequisites of Vermin Lord a bit. For example Sudden Swarm (Drow of Underdark) instead of Giant Vermin.

EDIT: Btw, spell progression gained from PrCs stack with the warlock levels to determine invocations and eldritch blast damage.

[Reptar]

Good to know, I wasn't sure if they counted as spells or not.

And as a DM I try to avoid DM fiat as much as possible. It's a good plan B though.

[Ferrin]

Just so you know; a druid is perfect for his fluff as well, just druid 20.

Take the feats Child of Winter, Vermin Companion, Vermin Shape from Eberron Campaign Setting. Drow of the Underdark has several other vermin feats, spells, and PRC's.

[Reptar]

I thought about that as well, but he prefers swarms to vermin, and vermin lord is better at that. Swarm armor and spew vermin are just too cool. He's rather stuck on it. I know there's ways to refluff things to do the same effect.

[Ferrin]

I'd let him go Warlock/Vermin Lord then, no need for the giant vermin spell. (though you could just make a custom invocation for that) Not exactly optimized, but neither is the rogue. The Half-ogre warforged? Make sure he can't fly. (IE: dispel magic on the item that makes him fly, have flying opponents)

Edit: The half-ogre's will save shouldn't be to high, target him with some fear effects.