View Full Version : 4E Warden/Warlock Catch-22

2010-05-24, 11:35 AM
So I'm thinking of something, but I'm not sure if it would work as I am seeing it. Can you brave optimizers tell me if I have it right?

The situation is a warforged warden/warlock using White Lotus Riposte and White Lotus Master Riposte in conjunction with Hellish Rebuke. But I'm confused as to exactly how much this would hurt the enemy. Assuming that I hit them with Hellish Rebuke and then they attack me:

Do White Lotus Riposte and White Lotus Master Riposte stack? Or does the Master damage just replace White Lotus Riposte damage? Also, since the power hits them again, will it do another 1d6+CON for causing me damage, or will that only trigger if they hit me again?

I hope this was phrased clearly. If not, please let me know and I will try to ask a different way.

2010-05-24, 11:54 AM
It does not state that it doesn't stack for any reason. Looking at the feat's wordings, they would take some damage for attacking you, and then you would get to attack then with the same at-will you used on them the first time.

2010-05-24, 12:00 PM
Looks to me like White Lotus Riposte and White Lotus Master Riposte stack. The target of your earlier at-will will take some damage, and is eligible for you to attempt to attack again with the same at-will.

As for Hellish Rebuke, I read it as a one-time conditional: If you take damage before the end of your next turn, your target takes the 1d6+Con fire damage. It doesn't matter who damages you (could even be an ally), or how many times you are damaged. Have you taken some damage, yes or no?

I do wonder if these are powers you want as a warden, though. They seem to create a very strong disincentive to attack you. With the warden's role being that of Defender, it seems counter-productive to take these powers and feats, and the warden class. I think I'd much rather hit your allies at -2 penalty and get slid/slowed than attack you and take a potential 3d6+Conx4.

2010-05-24, 01:59 PM
Depends on the DM. Some DMs play it as auto attack whomever marked their monsters. Some don't. With MMORPGs being more popular now and 4e's odd marking system I've noticed a rash of new ways of DMing "aggro" that isn't very realistic.

2010-05-24, 02:58 PM
Depends on the DM. Some DMs play it as auto attack whomever marked their monsters.

My group's fighter always gets this hurt puppy look whenever one if his marked monsters attacks someone besides him.

2010-05-24, 03:42 PM
I've never seen my DM not have a monster attack the PC that marked it. However, I'm thinking that this build may inspire him to change his mind, so I've added in some things that make it a bad idea to attack others...namely Mark of Warding, Crippling Crush (i think), Earthstrength Defenses and Crushing Earthstrength. When I second-wind and mark an enemy, they've got two options. Attack me (which is harder due to my buffed up defenses) for a healthy bit of damage, or attack my friends at a penalty for some damage and minor status effects.

Basically, I'm hoping to force at least one enemy to stand still and do nothing out of fear. This would work with the character's background, as he was created for riot control.