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awa
2010-05-24, 08:02 PM
So I was working on a heavily modified campaign setting and I was thinking id never really like how ranged increments work my real problem is that in my opinion it should be harder to hit a target at 100ft then at 30 even if the weapon can easily shoot that far. But I'm not share what i want to do to fix it. One thing I had considered was dropping all weapons with a range increment higher then 30 to 30 then giving diffrent maximum range and penalties per increment for each diffrent kind of ranged weapon in the game. Since i made all new weapons any way it wouldn't be that big a deal but I'm still not sure i like this solution.

Edit whoops that a big typo

tyckspoon
2010-05-24, 08:08 PM
it should be harder to hit a target at 30 ft then at a hundred even if the weapon can easily shoot that far.

..Are you sure this is what you meant to say? Because if so.. what.

Keld Denar
2010-05-24, 08:26 PM
Yea...what? Having shot archery before, I can tell you that shots passed 30-40 feet are actually incredibly difficult because past that range, you start experiencing the effects of drop. At ranges less than 30-40 feet, the initial velocity of the arrow is sufficient that drop is minimal. Past that though, drag starts to catch up with the arrow, slowing it and causing it to lose more and more height per foot traveled. Thus, you have to adjust for this drop, meaning you are no longer aiming at the target, but rather above the target and hoping you adjusted right.

If anything, range increments are a bit arbitrary, and IMO, ranges are a little bit too long, but otherwise they aren't terribly bad.

Mando Knight
2010-05-24, 08:27 PM
..Are you sure this is what you meant to say? Because if so.. what.

Agreed. Wut. You ever try a longer shot? More distance means more compensation for gravity and wind, more lead on a moving target, decreased projectile penetration (except for constantly accelerating projectiles), and so on. Getting a good shot at distance is far harder than at close range.

Curmudgeon
2010-05-24, 08:31 PM
One easy change: just halve the range increments, and impose a -1 penalty each increment instead of -2. (You'll double the total increments to keep the maximum range the same.) It works out nearly the same on average, except the penalties kick in a bit sooner and scale more smoothly. Your light crossbow will have a penalty at 40', and your shortbow at 30'. I think that should address your concerns without a major rules revision.

Rainbownaga
2010-05-24, 08:43 PM
Also, anyone serious about archery will have point blank shot, so shooting from more than 30' will be worse.

Hiest, monkey
2010-05-24, 08:43 PM
Distance archery is hard under any circumstances, however, most shots that PC's make on a regular basis defy the skills of the best real archers.

It's best not to try to make this particular aspect of D&D both balanced, realistic, and fun. You will, most likely, become exceedingly frustrated and disgusted with the world.

The biggest issue with archery in the game is that so many factors are unconsidered: the least being that the slightest breeze can nullify any accuracy far before the range increment limit is reached, the greatest being that Longbows in D&D aren't even used like longbows in real life.

awa
2010-05-24, 09:58 PM
I fixed that typo. But its a modified campaign setting with mage teck so the ranged weapons are more powerful so that's not a problem

Curmudgeon
2010-05-24, 10:06 PM
While archery is difficult, it's not unreasonably so. English longbowmen practiced regularly and could handle pulls of 100+ lbs., repeated dozens of times at a stretch. Plenty of people have managed to feed themselves with game taken by bow & arrow. Heck, a zillion years ago after a few weeks of practice in school I never got outside of the blue (3rd) ring at 25 yards (which has been changed to 25 meters now, though they've also added a shorter 18 meter distance). The blue ring is roughly the shoulder width of a Medium size character.

What's impracticably heroic is doing this reliably multiple times in 6 seconds against moving targets, while other people are trying to kill you. :smallamused:

awa
2010-05-24, 10:21 PM
first English long bow men were shooting arrows at an army not any specific guy in the army and second it's still harder to hit something a long ways away even if you can do so.

nedz
2010-05-25, 03:51 AM
There have been some pretty exceptional results IRL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper
World record is 2,475 m (2,707 yd) or 8121 feet.

Not sure this can be done once every 6 seconds though (let alone 5x)

Poil
2010-05-25, 04:38 AM
There have been some pretty exceptional results IRL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper
World record is 2,475 m (2,707 yd) or 8121 feet.

Not sure this can be done once every 6 seconds though (let alone 5x)

Um, what does that have to do with bows? :smalltongue:

Reading this makes Shadowrun's bow rules seem very silly. Your range increments are based on your characters strength so a regular human can shoot up to 30 meters with no penalties up to a maximum of 180 while a strong troll will shoot 150 with no penalties and up to 900 meters for more damage than an anti tank missile. I wonder what they were thinking.

nedz
2010-05-25, 06:29 AM
Um, what does that have to do with bows? :smalltongue:


Wind and Drop effect long range with all projectile weapons.

Spiryt
2010-05-25, 07:01 AM
Reading this makes Shadowrun's bow rules seem very silly. Your range increments are based on your characters strength so a regular human can shoot up to 30 meters with no penalties up to a maximum of 180 while a strong troll will shoot 150 with no penalties and up to 900 meters for more damage than an anti tank missile. I wonder what they were thinking.

Umm... just thinking?

Those are very simple, but not simpler or worse than D&D stuff.

The stronger you are, the harder bow you can pull and it can send arrow further.

Of course, 900 meters is not really possible even with good wooden bow, no matter how hard it is, but meh.

Poil
2010-05-25, 07:23 AM
True but the penalty to hit for shooting 900 meters with a bow is the same as shooting 180 if it's your maximum distance. Being stronger suddenly makes you more accurate as you fall down a range level (say, medium to short distance) regardless of your actual skill in using a bow.

Sorry if I'm not making enough sense, I'm sick.


Wind and Drop effect long range with all projectile weapons.
Doh, of course.

Spiryt
2010-05-25, 07:28 AM
True but the penalty to hit for shooting 900 meters with a bow is the same as shooting 180 if it's your maximum distance. Being stronger suddenly makes you more accurate as you fall down a range level (say, medium to short distance) regardless of your actual skill in using a bow.


This doesn't make sense at all indeed, I guess, but I don't know anything about Shadowrun. :smallwink:

Knaight
2010-05-25, 08:14 AM
Being stronger suddenly makes you more accurate as you fall down a range level (say, medium to short distance) regardless of your actual skill in using a bow.

Sorry if I'm not making enough sense, I'm sick.


Doh, of course.

Well, faster projectiles require less compensation for drop, so this part at least makes sense. Though the part I didn't quote really doesn't, and obviously a bow with a high enough draw (probably metal in a troll's case) is necessary.