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Primehunter74
2010-05-24, 08:21 PM
Is it possible? My DM thinks it would make sense to make is a deathless instead of undead.

WorstDMEver
2010-05-24, 08:24 PM
Baelnorn, Forgotten Realms, 3.x. Elves, though....

arguskos
2010-05-24, 08:24 PM
Baelnorn, Forgotten Realms, 3.x. Elves, though....
Source is Monsters of Faerun, wherin also lies the Good Lich (lich, but good). :smalltongue:

Threeshades
2010-05-24, 08:25 PM
There are individuals who choose to become liches in order to be able to serve a good cause long after their natural life should have ended. So it is possible.

I think in the Forgotten Realms setting theres even a whole chapter of good liches.

Lev
2010-05-24, 08:29 PM
Good question, I don't know how I would DM that... once the mind has rotted away how does a being think? Does it retain the compassion genetically imprinted into it? Are it's memories intact or are they only held in by a lofty force?

Becoming undead by the description of the core gods is a pretty messed up thing to wish upon yourself, and it has to be wished upon yourself.

Personally I don't think I could ever play a "good" lich, but I think I could get away with a CN lich who fights on the side of good without ever venturing out of his morally gray basis.

Hiest, monkey
2010-05-24, 08:37 PM
I remember there being some rule about the process of becoming a lich being so depraved and mind-altering that no sense of goodness remained, thus discouraging good-aligned power-gamers, however, should a DM like to include an undead character who is identical to a lich, but not evil, as a DM he/she is free to call it a "magical fairy dust happy undead" rather than a lich, and violates no rules.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet [and is allowed so long as the DM says so]"

-Sh4k35p3r3

Goldfly
2010-05-24, 08:39 PM
There is a variant for good liches in Libris Mortis.

DragoonWraith
2010-05-24, 08:43 PM
Depends. Ask yourself:
Are the Undead inherently evil in your setting?
Yes: Do Deathless exist in your setting?
Yes: Does a process exist for becoming a Deathless Lich?
Yes: Done.
No: Deathless are useless to you, see No to that question.
No: Do Baelnorns exist in your setting, and are you an Elf/can you persuade Elves to help you become one anyway?
Yes: Done.
No: Is Alignment strictly black-and-white in your setting?
Yes: Probably not.
No: Can you counteract the Evilness of being Undead with enough Good in order to retain a Good alignment?
Yes: Done.
No: Probably can't.
No: Is the process for becoming a Lich inherently Evil in your setting?
Yes: See answers for inherently evil Undead for alternatives.
No: Then no reasons that a Lich must be Evil, go ahead.

Jack_Simth
2010-05-24, 08:45 PM
1) Ghost. No alignment restrictions, has a similar "come back from the dead" ability.
2) Absurd sequence of events involving a Helm of Opposite Alignment (or another alignment-changing spell or magical effect). A Lich can use Polymorph effects on itself, but it only gets immunity to mind-affecting effects by virtue of it's type - so if a Lich turns itself into a human for a time as part of an impersonation to capture the resources of a kingdom for a while, and the lich (in human form) gets hit with an alignment-changing effect, the Lich's alignment can very well change.
3) Baelnorms (good aligned elf-liches).
4) Homebrew (the aforementioned "magical fairy dust happy undead")

DragoonWraith
2010-05-24, 08:55 PM
It should also be noted that becoming a Lich is pretty much strictly a down-grade in power. The whole phylactery thing is potent, but not worth 4 spellcasting levels.

Jack_Simth
2010-05-24, 09:00 PM
It should also be noted that becoming a Lich is pretty much strictly a down-grade in power. The whole phylactery thing is potent, but not worth 4 spellcasting levels.

No it's not worth four spellcasting levels. However:
1) For an NPC, it's only +2 CR... and that *could* be worth it (especially if the caster already has 9th level spells - same DC).
2) In Gestalt, you don't necessarily lose caster levels by becoming a Lich (some DM's have LA take one side only, others have it apply to both).
3) Depending on reading, the LA is "free" after the cost of the phylactery is paid (you're a 15th level caster who builds a phylactery and becomes a Lich... jumping from an ECL 15 character to an ECL 19 character immediately). Sure, you pay for it later, but *right now* you just picked up a very nice power boost.

Aron Times
2010-05-24, 09:23 PM
There is an Archlich epic destiny in 4e, and it's pretty good. You could use the 3.5 rules for epic destinies to play one in 3.5 (the rules are in the 3.5 archive).

DragoonWraith
2010-05-24, 09:40 PM
3) Depending on reading, the LA is "free" after the cost of the phylactery is paid (you're a 15th level caster who builds a phylactery and becomes a Lich... jumping from an ECL 15 character to an ECL 19 character immediately). Sure, you pay for it later, but *right now* you just picked up a very nice power boost.
All good points, especially this one: for non-Epic games, completing the ritual at 20th seems like a very good proposition - as Dread Necromancers do.

There's also the option of Walker in the Waste, as long as you read that as not actually giving you LA (it's absolutely pointless if it does, but the way things are written seems to imply it should).

Optimystik
2010-05-24, 09:50 PM
There is a variant for good liches in Libris Mortis.

Making this a little easier to see.
The "good lich" is on page 156.

gbprime
2010-05-25, 08:51 AM
Just my 2 cents on it, but something animated by negative energy is likely to fade to neutrality over the years as an undead creature despite the best of intentions. For that reason, it might be a good idea to give your Good Lich a polymorph or shapechange ability so it can take "mortality" vacations and spend a little time breathing for a change.