Ufo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bothi]

I was taking a walk about... 30 seconds ago and I saw this... thing... in the sky. I was walking when the ground started flashing a dull whitish color. I look up and there is a HUGE white rectangle in the sky. It flashed a few more times then disapeared. Where the corners were came white dots, they flew torward eachother then stoped and span really fast in a circle then disapeared... weird... hey G whadu think?

[ghost_warlock]

See a neurologist. Now.

[Haruki-kun]

Oh, sorry, was just flying by. I was sure no one had seen me.....<.<

[IonDragon]

One of two a couple things happened.
You passed out and that was a dream
As indicated above, you probably have a brain tumor. This is the most likely option
YOU'S TROLLIN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMLrA_0O5I)

[Leecros]

One of two things happened.
You passed out and that was a dream
As indicated above, you probably have a brain tumor. This is the most likely option
YOU'S TROLLIN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMLrA_0O5I)

4. Aliens are real and one just broke intergalactic law. Or got bored and abducted you and injected a brain tumor into your head.


Evil alien experiments are Evil...

[Bothi]

One of two things happened.
You passed out and that was a dream
As indicated above, you probably have a brain tumor. This is the most likely option
YOU'S TROLLIN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMLrA_0O5I)


...................... 1 of 2?... you listed 3...

[Leecros]

...................... 1 of 2?... you listed 3...

i think 3 was just for comedic implications

[IonDragon]

See how I already fixed that?

[mikeejimbo]

It was just the orbital mind control laser.

[Maximum Zersk]

AGH! TOO MANY EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyhoo, my guess is it's either Haruki, as he said already, or a rich, bored alien that wanted to bug a bunch of lifeforms that haven't gotten interstellar travel yet.

[Jade_Tarem]

Scott Bakula came from the future to fix a rip in the space time continuum. You've just been saved from a life of drudgery and are destined for truly great things. :smallsmile:

[Sneak]

See how I already fixed that?

...you think you did, but you really, really didn't.

[Mystic Muse]

See a neurologist. Now.

Probably a good idea.

[UglyPanda]

I believe you're either delusional or mistaken about what you saw.

I blame the Venusian three-headed psychic lizards. Their ancient war with the Peruvian frogmen and the Cyberminks from Pluto is plunging this world into chaos.

Of course, the inevitable meme:

Pics or it didn't happen.

[The Watchman]

See a neurologist. Now.

Or stop smoking so much reefer.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Or stop smoking so much reefer.

Or stop watching so many Sci-Fi movies and staying up late.
(Inevitable xkcd link: http://xkcd.com/622/)

[Sneak]

Or stop watching so many Sci-Fi movies and staying up late.
(Inevitable xkcd link: http://xkcd.com/622/)

I think you meant inevitable xkcd link? (http://xkcd.com/718/)

[Lord Seth]

Seeing "Ufo" (without the capitalization denoting it as an acronym) made me think of Lotta Hart calling them "youfoes" from Phoenix Wright.

[Zexion]

I think that you should try and get psychiatric help. I can refer you to an ad in my avatar's big black book. :smallbiggrin:

Or not, as it happens. Apparently computer-generated graphics aren't real. Who knew?

[mucat]

See a neurologist. Now.
The really convenient part is, there doesn't have to actually be a neurologist there in order for him to see one.

[Zexion]

The really convenient part is, there doesn't have to actually be a neurologist there in order for him to see one.
Yes, that is convenient, isn't

OH NO I'M GOING CRAZY! I HAD BETTER SEE AN IMAGINARY NEUROLOGIST RIGHT NOW!

[chiasaur11]

It was marsh gas. Or a weather balloon. You saw nothing.

However, write up the experience fully, with all details, and send it to your local eXtraterrestrial Combat unit Xylophone Control branch office. For... psych testing.

[Temotei]

It could have been a star. :smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Unless you are purposely lying to us, you indeed saw a UFO, that much is clear. However, that just means you saw an object, that was flying, you couldn't identify. UFO, no matter how many exclamation marks you put after it, doesn't automatically mean alien space ship.
It would be identified then, now then wouldn't it?

[golentan]

I would prefer not to say this again, so listen closely.

There is no alien presence on or near earth. You did not see an alien spacecraft, aircraft, or any other sort of craft. Even if you had, the vessel doesn't match the descriptions of a Electro-Strong Imaging kite, of the sort not commonly employed by a nonexistent organization that would not be called the Ku. If these nonexistent people were present, it would not be because of a creature known as the Dreamer, which would not be leaving it's larval stage on earth sometime in the next few thousand years. They would not be here to protect it by any means necessary, because it would not exist. They would not maintain a research base in the oceanic depths under a nonexistent standard procedure, nor have arrived with treaties with the local governments, wherein they would not have used diplomacy, trade, infiltration, and/or the threat of force to secure a ban of testing of potentially dangerous weapons to the dreamer in it's natural habitat in the 50s.

Okay?

[denthor]

Paraphase AL Bundy
Men see UFO because they want to escape the women of this planet and it is the only place far enough for them not to go.

So again quoting the a great thinker of our time UFO's are useful AL Bundy.

[Boo]

*snip*

I think you like the Sand Man too much. Unless I'm thinking of someone else...

Whatever the case, it's entirely possible for a species of interstellar aliens to exist within our galaxy, however it is also probable that we would have found them if they were to enter our space.

[golentan]

I think you like the Sand Man too much. Unless I'm thinking of someone else...

Whatever the case, it's entirely possible for a species of interstellar aliens to exist within our galaxy, however it is also probable that we would have found them if they were to enter our space.

Oh, I have great faith in the ability of humanity to spot any new arrivals. And by "New" I mean "Since you invented telescopic lenses." And by arrivals, I mean "Weren't actually here before you discovered fire."

[Temotei]

Oh, I have great faith in the ability of humanity to spot any new arrivals. And by "New" I mean "Since you invented telescopic lenses." And by arrivals, I mean "Weren't actually here before you discovered fire."

I see what you did there. :smallamused:

[CockroachTeaParty]

"Look! Gaz! He is an alien! I have him on tape! I have you on tape witnessing it!"

"Possibly a weather balloon. Or swamp gas!"

"I was the chubby lady hidin' in the bushes."

[2xMachina]

Do you by any chance, know Haruhi? Suzumiya

[dehro]

you nead a new pusher


alternatively, please, take your sunglasses off and look at the flash please:smallcool:

[Archonic Energy]

technically if you can't tell if it's a 747-300 or a 747-400 it's a UFO... :smallamused:

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

You saw the moon. It's been feeling rectangular lately.

[KuReshtin]

technically if you can't tell if it's a 747-300 or a 747-400 it's a UFO... :smallamused:

Archie's been reading the BOFH. Technically, it's true, though.
Same as if you see a stick flying through the air, and you can't tell if it's birch or pine, it would also be a UFO.

[Dragon queen]

I was taking a walk about... 30 seconds ago and I saw this... thing... in the sky. I was walking when the ground started flashing a dull whitish color. I look up and there is a HUGE white rectangle in the sky. It flashed a few more times then disapeared. Where the corners were came white dots, they flew torward eachother then stoped and span really fast in a circle then disapeared... weird... hey G whadu think?





:smalleek: DUN DUN DUNDUNDUN!

POSSIBILITIES:

1. Time traveling aliens.
2. The Borg want you to join the collective.
3. You have not been getting enough sleep.
4. Your suffering from a rare chronic disease and need to see a doctor.
5. The government have a new form of space craft and now that you saw it their going to track you down and get you.
6. Aliens are coming and the world is about to be invaded.

Either way as far as I'm concerned, I never saw this thread and I never met you or anyone who posted on this thread.:smalltongue:

[Lost Demiurge]

Huh, that's pretty cool.

The fact that it lit up the ground off and on, I find that interesting. That's a detail you don't often see.

Oh, and ignore the folks screaming about how you're sick or insane or stoned. If you aren't any of these things and you saw it, then you saw it. Some people always gotta disbelieve anything they can't rationalize.

[Ravens_cry]

Huh, that's pretty cool.

The fact that it lit up the ground off and on, I find that interesting. That's a detail you don't often see.

Oh, and ignore the folks screaming about how you're sick or insane or stoned. If you aren't any of these things and you saw it, then you saw it. Some people always gotta disbelieve anything they can't rationalize.
I agree calling mental illness is rather poor taste. But given how inaccurate eyewitnesses can be (http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm), how the brain, especially at night with few landmarks visible for referance, can confuse something small and close and big and far, how peoples minds can distort things because they want to believe something, (http://psp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/28/11/1495) and the fact we have nothing but this claim, no photograph to analyse for other possibilities, I think scepticism is a valid stance to take on this.

[Cobalt]

I agree calling mental illness is rather poor taste. But given how inaccurate eyewitnesses can be (http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm), how the brain, especially at night with few landmarks visible for referance, can confuse something small and close and big and far, how peoples minds can distort things because they want to believe something, (http://psp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/28/11/1495) and the fact we have nothing but this claim, no photograph to analyse for other possibilities, I think scepticism is a valid stance to take on this.

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

That is all.

[Dallas-Dakota]

4. Aliens are real and one just broke intergalactic law. Or got bored and abducted you and injected a brain tumor into your head.


Evil alien experiments are Evil...
Or Aliens don't really give a ****, one was curious, decided to check us out and decided we were boring.:smalltongue:

[Ravens_cry]

Hyuk, hyuk, hyuk.

That is all.
I am not following you.
Please clarify.

[Froogleyboy]

Okay, I'm not saying you didn't see it. But, the 20-something exclamation points really take away any credibility you had. I think I smell a troll

[Haruki-kun]

Do you by any chance, know Haruhi? Suzumiya

Yeah, friend of mine

The other day was weird. I was having one of those feelings, you know? I was watching this baseball game between two prefectures of no relation to mine... I was half-heartedly cheering for the losing side and was having a feeling I'd be hearing from her soon...

[Dr.Epic]

Maybe it was just swamp gas even if there weren't any swamps around. It happens. Ever fight 1d3 dire camels in a swamp? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0564.html)

[Cobalt]

I am not following you.
Please clarify.

Oh, I'm laughing at this whole situation. Basically, my thought process is the same as this:


Okay, I'm not saying you didn't see it. But, the 20-something exclamation points really take away any credibility you had. I think I smell a troll

I mean, really, people.

[Oregano]

It's nothing, yo crazy!

I thought someone saw my Sky fortress, better move.

[golentan]

Yeah, friend of mine

The other day was weird. I was having one of those feelings, you know? I was watching this baseball game between two prefectures of no relation to mine... I was half-heartedly cheering for the losing side and was having a feeling I'd be hearing from her soon...

I'd be really irritated if it were august. I would rather not spend the next couple hundred years waiting for you to ask for help with your homework.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh, I'm laughing at this whole situation. Basically, my thought process is the same as this:


Okay, I'm not saying you didn't see it. But, the 20-something exclamation points really take away any credibility you had. I think I smell a troll

I mean, really, people.
Oh, I see. Well, I was just trying to be fair and scientific about it.
Humans are rum creatures. Personally, unless our knowledge of the nature of the universe changes so that FTL becomes an actual possibility, the idea that aliens would come all the way to Earth just to pull frat boy pranks is rather ludicrous (http://www.thepassinglane.ca/2010/05/too-close-an-encounter-ufo-allegedly-damages-ford-focus.html), the equivalent of interstellar cowtipping.

[Cobalt]

Oh, I see. Well, I was just trying to be fair and scientific about it.
Humans are rum creatures. Personally, unless our knowledge of the nature of the universe changes so that FTL becomes an actual possibility, the idea that aliens would come all the way to Earth just to pull frat boy pranks is rather ludicrous (http://www.thepassinglane.ca/2010/05/too-close-an-encounter-ufo-allegedly-damages-ford-focus.html), the equivalent of interstellar cowtipping.

I recall seeing something on Boston Legal somewhere along those lines this morning. Weird coincidence... Or alien intervention?

I mean, you're welcome to be fair and all, but... Eh. There's a time for it, and really... Fair science doesn't fit in this one.

Anyway...


EDIT: By the way, was that the location stretching the screen?

[Shas aia Toriia]

Oh, I see. Well, I was just trying to be fair and scientific about it.
Humans are rum creatures. Personally, unless our knowledge of the nature of the universe changes so that FTL becomes an actual possibility, the idea that aliens would come all the way to Earth just to pull frat boy pranks is rather ludicrous (http://www.thepassinglane.ca/2010/05/too-close-an-encounter-ufo-allegedly-damages-ford-focus.html), the equivalent of interstellar cowtipping.

Maybe they are the equivalent of teenagers, just coming along to mess with us?
They could do it for the same reason many people break the law.

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe they are the equivalent of teenagers, just coming along to mess with us?
They could do it for the same reason many people break the law.

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."
Unless there is a way to go FTL, and wormholes only work if you already have an one end at the vicinity, and Alcubierre drives, even if you can get the exotic matter required, may have instabilities at superluminal velocities, (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23292/) it's just takes too darn long.
The fastest known thing in the universe, light in a vacuum, takes years to get to the nearest star.

[Maximum Zersk]

Do you by any chance, know Haruhi? Suzumiya

Yeah, but look what happened when Kyon tried to tell her about the other three, right?

[Cealocanth]

The strange thing is, almost all UFO sightings I've heard of involve bright flasy shapes in the sky, usually spinning too. If you see annother one, see your doctor, there may be something seriously wrong with your brain...

The above evidence could indicate any of these things:

1: We are repeatedly being visited by the same species/civilaization and are just too stupid to notice it.

2: There is something going on with our apmosphere that we don't know about that interferes with light.

3: The human race is slowly going insane...

4: Clouds can do some pretty weird things...

If any of you haven't noticed already, I enjoy learning and studying alien theory. As I heard someplace once: "If aliens are as advanced as we think they are, then they're like us while we're like an anthill. Do you think they would openly try to communicate with us? Do you think they would try to advance us in technology? No. Like you would do, the most you would do is step on a couple of them, the least you would do is just walk on by."

Do you think it was alien influence, have any more sightings like this occured? (to you I mean)

[Cobalt]

If any of you haven't noticed already, I enjoy learning and studying alien theory. As I heard someplace once: "If aliens are as advanced as we think they are, then they're like us while we're like an anthill. Do you think they would openly try to communicate with us? Do you think they would try to advance us in technology? No. Like you would do, the most you would do is step on a couple of them, the least you would do is just walk on by."

Unless said aliens come from a universe packed to the brim with intelligent life to the point that their home system is like Earth when it comes to non-sentients, I think they'd at least stop by and say hello.

Oh, and if we're going to discuss UFOs seriously, may I suggest that we move it to a different thread not made in an attempt to troll the Playground?

[Gamerlord]

I once saw what looked like a UFO. Big,burning circular thing crashing into something from a distance.

[golentan]

If any of you haven't noticed already, I enjoy learning and studying alien theory. As I heard someplace once: "If aliens are as advanced as we think they are, then they're like us while we're like an anthill. Do you think they would openly try to communicate with us? Do you think they would try to advance us in technology? No. Like you would do, the most you would do is step on a couple of them, the least you would do is just walk on by."

Well, I've done some tests, and only about a tenth of one percent of the general population scores above a one on the Silper-Becka scale. And since you acknowledge your entire population as members of your "sapient" group, you fall well short of the 16.6+% required to qualify as an intelligent species. Near sapience, indubitably. Sapient... Well, the SBS has it's detractors, so it's arguable. But it has as many people who call it too generous as too stringent. And by the time anyone's launching an interstellar probe, they've hit at least a 3 on the SBS.

Still, never underestimate the fascination of a biologist with an anthill of a new species to study. Just don't expect them to set up a trade outpost.

[Cealocanth]

Well, I've done some tests, and only about a tenth of one percent of the general population scores above a one on the Silper-Becka scale. And since you acknowledge your entire population as members of your "sapient" group, you fall well short of the 16.6+% required to qualify as an intelligent species. Near sapience, indubitably. Sapient... Well, the SBS has it's detractors, so it's arguable. But it has as many people who call it too generous as too stringent. And by the time anyone's launching an interstellar probe, they've hit at least a 3 on the SBS.

Still, never underestimate the fascination of a biologist with an anthill of a new species to study. Just don't expect them to set up a trade outpost.
I had no idea what that meant. I'm afraid this only provides more evidence to your proof...

The last line though, very well put. There is a chance that an alien biologist could find us. Otherwise, why would they be here in the first place, i mean, the life levels on this planet make a bright enough glow to attract every alien within lightyears. I think I'll go with the whole "we're simply not intelligent enough to prove they're exsistence," again, we are ants in comparison to them.

[Cealocanth]

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."
Unless there is a way to go FTL, and wormholes only work if you already have an one end at the vicinity, and Alcubierre drives, even if you can get the exotic matter required, may have instabilities at superluminal velocities, (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/23292/) it's just takes too darn long.
The fastest known thing in the universe, light in a vacuum, takes years to get to the nearest star.
Aliens could be anything and everything at the same time. We have no idea how fast their perception of time flows. Perhaps they're like plants, and years pass by like minutes, perhaps they're like stars, and years pass by like fractions of milliseconds.

[Ravens_cry]

I had no idea what that meant. I'm afraid this only provides more evidence to your proof...

The last line though, very well put. There is a chance that an alien biologist could find us. Otherwise, why would they be here in the first place, i mean, the life levels on this planet make a bright enough glow to attract every alien within lightyears. I think I'll go with the whole "we're simply not intelligent enough to prove they're exsistence," again, we are ants in comparison to them.
Many people study myrmecology.
Some of the common tropes of alien visitation, tag and release, are strikingly similar to our own practises with many species. I am not saying UFO have ever been alien space craft, I have been arguing strenuously against it, it's just something to ponder.

[Cealocanth]

Many people study myrmecology.
Some of the common tropes of alien visitation, tag and release, are strikingly similar to our own practises with many species.

Which only emphasizes my point. We're too stupid to tell they're actually doing this to us and they're not just insane. Do those species know that we're tagging them is the question.

The only thing that could prove they're true and actual exsistence is if something traumatic and world changing happened, like in the movie Independance Day.

[Edit: May I suggest we move this debate to a new thread labeled Alien Theory itp. Leave this one for UFO sightings.]

[Zevox]

Aliens could be anything and everything at the same time. We have no idea how fast their perception of time flows. Perhaps they're like plants, and years pass by like minutes, perhaps they're like stars, and years pass by like fractions of milliseconds.
*facepalm*

Time does not work that way. That (some) plants can live a long time does not mean time passes any differently for them than for us. And stars aren't even alive, they can't perceive anything, time included.

Now, I admit I am not a scientist, and I know there are theories about time being relative to a few factors (relative motion and gravitational fields, if a quick scan of Wikipedia can tell me anything on the matter - and it indicates that those only slow down time, not speed it up) which I do not fully comprehend, but even I know what you just said there is pure BS not in the least grounded in those theories.

Zevox

[Force]

Whenever I read one of these threads, I am reminded of the Dresden Files and the (fictional) humanity's ability to disbelieve even the craziest things, such as...

Calling vampire skeletons "human mutations"

and

Mistaking the sight of a magical battle involving thousands of vampires and their retainers against quite a few wizards, knights of the cross, a high-level Sidhe and their allies as an earthquake. Did I mention that the vampires and their retainers all had bodies which were not disposed of by the time the cops arrived?

[J.Gellert]

Aliens don't exist. Time-travel is impossible. Don't think too hard. Don't worry. You are safe. Don't look at the lights in the sky. Go back to sleep. Meatbags.

[Cobalt]

There is no UFO citizen, please, go back to your fun.

[Lost Demiurge]

What really amuses me in this whole situation is that the guy didn't mention aliens one bit. That's something other posters tacked on.

::Shrugs:: I find it entirely possible that the guy saw exactly what he described. Why is it so hard to believe that he saw that? I wasn't there, no one was there but the OP. There's a chance he could be lying, but there's just as good a chance that he's not.

Ah well. Skeptics gonna skep. Go for it guys, whatever helps you sleep at night.

[The Watchman]

What really amuses me in this whole situation is that the guy didn't mention aliens one bit. That's something other posters tacked on.

Okay, to be perfectly precise, you are correct. He didn't say anything about aliens. But he waggled his eyebrows and made suggestive motions towards a corner where a giant pink neon sign said "ALIENS" in forty-foot-high letters.

[Cealocanth]

*facepalm*

Time does not work that way. That (some) plants can live a long time does not mean time passes any differently for them than for us. And stars aren't even alive, they can't perceive anything, time included.

Now, I admit I am not a scientist, and I know there are theories about time being relative to a few factors (relative motion and gravitational fields, if a quick scan of Wikipedia can tell me anything on the matter - and it indicates that those only slow down time, not speed it up) which I do not fully comprehend, but even I know what you just said there is pure BS not in the least grounded in those theories.

Zevox

time doesn't work like that to you. Trees are alive, they move very slowly, it takes a long time for them to do anything. Either they just don't care enough about the passage of time or time passes faster for them. Intelligence is a crazy thing.

Stars aren't alive as far as we know. No human has been around long enough to tell if a star has any perception to the universe at all because stars live so long. If a star were alive, then i would expect it to move very slowly, and possibly, the birth of humanity to now be barely a blink of an eye to our Sun.

As I heard from the same source as before, "...alien life may be so strange, we may not even recognize it.

As I said before, can we please move this discussion to a different thread. Leave this one for UFO discussion.

[Ravens_cry]

Aliens could be anything and everything at the same time. We have no idea how fast their perception of time flows. Perhaps they're like plants, and years pass by like minutes, perhaps they're like stars, and years pass by like fractions of milliseconds.
This would contradict the observations alleged by others, from the flight bys to the abductions, with events happening at a human time scale.
We don't have, or at least not commonly, Rip Van Winkle UFO alien abduction stories.

[Zevox]

time doesn't work like that to you. Trees are alive, they move very slowly, it takes a long time for them to do anything. Either they just don't care enough about the passage of time or time passes faster for them. Intelligence is a crazy thing.
...that doesn't make any sense, at all. You're presuming here that trees are capable of deliberate, independent motion outside of mere growth, and that they are intelligent, or at least possess some form of awareness of ability to think - two things for which we have zero evidence. In fact, which we probably have evidence against, given how much studying we have done of them. If there were anything to indicate they possessed even such intelligence as animals do, we'd surely have found it - as-is, there isn't even a plant equivalent of a brain, unless my recollection of high school biology is faulty.


Stars aren't alive as far as we know. No human has been around long enough to tell if a star has any perception to the universe at all because stars live so long. If a star were alive, then i would expect it to move very slowly, and possibly, the birth of humanity to now be barely a blink of an eye to our Sun.
Stars are balls of gas, continuously burning, with nuclear reactions occurring at their core. They possess all of none of the qualities of life. They are, essentially, giant chemical reactions. To even guess that they could be alive would be like guessing that mundane fire could be alive - it's simple nonsense, with nothing but imagination to support it.

And even if any of the assumptions you made in those statements were true, it would still not support in any way any assumption that time operates differently based on what form of life you are. That is something you're completely pulling out of thin air.

Zevox

[Temotei]

This would contradict the observations alleged by others, from the flight bys to the abductions, with events happening at a human time scale.
We don't have, or at least not commonly, Rip Van Winkle UFO alien abduction stories.

That's bad?

[Froogleyboy]

*snip*

One problem with your argument though, you have no way of knowing that. You say plants don't have brains, but brains don't equal sentience! For all you know, the rocks beneath your feat could be sentient!

[Ravens_cry]

That's bad?
If they are operating on a human time scale, then they can't be crossing space by the slow path just for ****s and giggles.

[Zevox]

One problem with your argument though, you have no way of knowing that. You say plants don't have brains, but brains don't equal sentience! For all you know, the rocks beneath your feat could be sentient!
I'm going to assume you're merely being humorous here and know full well the problem with such statements, but since I'm not entirely certain Cealocanth wouldn't seriously make that argument himself, I'll answer anyway.

That type of inanity is why one requires evidence of assertions before believing them. You can claim anything you want about anything, but if you can provide no evidence of it, no one has any rational reason to believe it - and the very lack of evidence itself constitutes rational reason not to believe it. And that's before you even bring in further scientific logic like Occam's Razor, which would certainly further discard such notions even if someone were to concoct something resembling evidence for them.

Zevox

[Froogleyboy]

I'm going to assume you're merely being humorous here and know full well the problem with such statements, but since I'm not entirely certain Cealocanth wouldn't seriously make that argument himself, I'll answer anyway.

That type of inanity is why one requires evidence of assertions before believing them. You can claim anything you want about anything, but if you can provide no evidence of it, no one has any rational reason to believe it - and the very lack of evidence itself constitutes rational reason not to believe it. And that's before you even bring in further scientific logic like Occam's Razor, which would certainly further discard such notions even if someone were to concoct something resembling evidence for them.

Zevox

Touche for now

[Superglucose]

I was taking a walk about... 30 seconds ago and I saw this... thing... in the sky. I was walking when the ground started flashing a dull whitish color. I look up and there is a HUGE white rectangle in the sky. It flashed a few more times then disapeared. Where the corners were came white dots, they flew torward eachother then stoped and span really fast in a circle then disapeared... weird... hey G whadu think?
When I had my little girl Zoe, she and I used to take a walk next to the farm fields every night. I saw countless amazing things, Faeries, and more shooting stars than I ever thought I'd see. I even saw a huge bright green flash once.

Amazing things happen at night.

[Lord Raziere]

I'm going to assume you're merely being humorous here and know full well the problem with such statements, but since I'm not entirely certain Cealocanth wouldn't seriously make that argument himself, I'll answer anyway.

That type of inanity is why one requires evidence of assertions before believing them. You can claim anything you want about anything, but if you can provide no evidence of it, no one has any rational reason to believe it - and the very lack of evidence itself constitutes rational reason not to believe it. And that's before you even bring in further scientific logic like Occam's Razor, which would certainly further discard such notions even if someone were to concoct something resembling evidence for them.


Yes, but people do not need rationality to believe anything. You are talking to a brick wall, he will only continue to assert his beliefs despite all your logical arguments. I agree with you, but not everyone looks at the evidence we already have and are satisfied, some people are dreamers with imagination, who are not content and wish for fantastical things against all arguments, who still wish for more.

please, don't try arguing with him, let him continue dreaming if he wants to.

[Cealocanth]

You have complately blown me away by your logic. All I'm saying is to think illogicly here.'

The sightings we presume are aliens do operate on a human time scale, because we're human, and that's the time scale we see and percieve. All I'm saying is that aliens could operate on a completely different scale than we do because we don't have any evidence to prove that they don't. If there is any, life outside Earth will be very, very, strange. I'm quite certain that it will be beyond anything we can even think to imagine.
Just expect the unexpected.

[Edit: I'll stop arguing with you about what makes things alive. I think the creation of the first synthetic cell proves that well enough. If we're going to argue discuss alien life, let it be the ones that do work off of the same perception of time that we do.]

[golentan]

Relevant to the current thrust of conversation. (http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1889#comic)

[Zevox]

Yes, but people do not need rationality to believe anything. You are talking to a brick wall, he will only continue to assert his beliefs despite all your logical arguments. I agree with you, but not everyone looks at the evidence we already have and are satisfied, some people are dreamers with imagination, who are not content and wish for fantastical things against all arguments, who still wish for more.

please, don't try arguing with him, let him continue dreaming if he wants to.
Believe me, I know full well some people can be thoroughly irrational about many things. I was posting here mainly because he seemed to be trying to cast his arguments as rational, even scientific, when they are clearly nothing of the sort. Imagination and dreams are all fine and good - hell, most of us here, myself included, are fans of fantasy and science fiction works, including role-playing games, so I fully expect to encounter plenty of that among the posters here - but to assert those dreams and imaginations as though they were rational arguments for something that may actually exist is another thing entirely.

I won't pursue the argument much further though. You're certainly correct that if he persists, odds are any further argument would be like talking to a brick wall.

Zevox

[Cealocanth]

So, back to the first question before I decided to be a "brick wall." The aliens that are spotted, why would they want to know about us in the first place?

[Edit: The ideas seemed more philosophical to me, still, I'm one to argue on and on about such things. That one Philosophy thread proved that quite well. I guess I can be a brick wall sometimes.]

[Ravens_cry]

You have complately blown me away by your logic. All I'm saying is to think illogicly here.'

The sightings we presume are aliens do operate on a human time scale, because we're human, and that's the time scale we see and percieve. All I'm saying is that aliens could operate on a completely different scale than we do because we don't have any evidence to prove that they don't. If there is any, life outside Earth will be very, very, strange. I'm quite certain that it will be beyond anything we can even think to imagine.
Just expect the unexpected.

[Edit: I'll stop arguing with you about what makes things alive. I think the creation of the first synthetic cell proves that well enough. If we're going to argue discuss alien life, let it be the ones that do work off of the same perception of time that we do.]
If they didn't operate on a human scale, and abductions were exactly what UFO-as-aliens proponents say, then they.
Would.
Take.
A.
Long.
Time.
Hence, the Rip Van Winkle remark.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

All I'm saying is that aliens could operate on a completely different scale than we do because we don't have any evidence to prove that they don't.

The inability to disprove something does not prove it.
If you have evidence supporting it other than that that cannot be easily explained by other means, it could be real, but that's only if you have other evidence. If you do assume things to be real because you don't know they don't exist then you'll run into problems when all of your assumtions start contradicting each other, the only way to still make them is to ignore some and only choose the ones you like and if you do that you'll not be qualified to make any assumtions based on evidence (or the lack of it).

Aliens might exist, we can't prove they don't-but aliens might not exist, we can't prove they do. Which should we go with? Assume something is true because it's a nice thought?

[Cealocanth]

Aliens might exist, we can't prove they don't-but aliens might not exist, we can't prove they do. Which should we go with? Assume something is true because it's a nice thought?

Let's talk probability. As we know, life was a near impossible thing to have sprung up on earth. The chances are as close to 0 as you can think because to get that exact position of the planet around that exact type of star are pretty unlikely. The universe, however, is infinite. That next to 0 probability multiplied by infinity means that there is at least 1 more planet with life out there. Granted, the sentient life will always be lower than the life-on-a-planet chance, period.
Now the chances of them finding us are unpredictable because we don't know exactly how many of them there are nor how close to us they are.there.
That our planet developed sentient life was an even closer to 0 probability. but again, the universe is infinite. There's got to be at least one out there.

As I've said before, on posts you'e quoted nonetheless. I was wrong. I admit it. Let's drop the problem of temporal perception that I so stupidly suggested and talk about the problem that the ones that do have the same perception that we do. Yes, there is a chance that aliens that live within dimentions other than us have different perceptions of time, but we don't encounter them, nor can we go into those dimentions to find them.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Is it infinite? I may be wrong but I recall that it's infinitly expanding, so it's not getting more mass/energy but the distances between things are increasing. And since the universe is everthing everywhere, it's growing larger but there's no more stuff being added.

[poisonoustea]

I KNEW the Reapers would attack the Earth sooner or later.

[golentan]

Is it infinite? I may be wrong but I recall that it's infinitly expanding, so it's not getting more mass/energy but the distances between things are increasing. And since the universe is everthing everywhere, it's growing larger but there's no more stuff being added.

Tis as close to infinite as makes no practical difference. The milky way galaxy alone is enough to have extremely low inputs into the drake equation produce numbers in the thousands or tens of thousands.

[The Watchman]

time doesn't work like that to you. Trees are alive, they move very slowly, it takes a long time for them to do anything. Either they just don't care enough about the passage of time or time passes faster for them.

Or they don't perceive time at all, and as such don't care.


Stars aren't alive as far as we know. No human has been around long enough to tell if a star has any perception to the universe at all because stars live so long.

You're ignoring the fact that the chemical makeup of the star is not of a kind that could create the chemical reactions necessary for sentience. It does not have eyes. It cannot see. It does not have ears. It cannot hear. It does not have a brain. It cannot think.
And no, fusion reactions cannot result in intelligence.

[The Watchman]

Let's talk probability. As we know, life was a near impossible thing to have sprung up on earth. The chances are as close to 0 as you can think because to get that exact position of the planet around that exact type of star are pretty unlikely. The universe, however, is infinite. That next to 0 probability multiplied by infinity means that there is at least 1 more planet with life out there. Granted, the sentient life will always be lower than the life-on-a-planet chance, period.
Now the chances of them finding us are unpredictable because we don't know exactly how many of them there are nor how close to us they are.there.

Okay, well, taking the bit about the planets and the chance of life developing on any one:
Life is extremely unlikely to develop. I think we can all accept that. Sentient life is even less likely.
Life on Earth took about three-point-five billion years to develop to the point of sentience. It is possible, though, that it could develop faster or slower depending on mutations, so we will widen that range to two-point-five years. Anything less than that is probably getting into the "ludicrous" range.
The first planets formed some time around thirteen billion years ago, but it is extremely unlikely that life - let alone sentient life - would form that early. Since the only baseline we have for such measurements is Earth, we'll use it: it took about a billion years after the planet's formation for life to form. That places us at twelve billion years on the universal timescale before the first life can form, and on to the nine-billion-year range before sentience developed. It took about half a billion years for humans to go from our earliest forms to the current homo sapiens sapiens, placing us at about eight-point-five billion years, and another half a billion years to get to our current state of technological development. That puts us at about eight billion years.
Now, assuming that we get lucky and another sentient species develops in our very own Milky Way, we can start calculating odds of one species stumbling across another.
The Milky Way contains somewhere in the area of one hundred to four hundred billion stars. For the purpose of keeping things simple, let's put the distance between stars at around ten light years. So to cover a quarter of the galaxy, the hypothetical sentient race would take somewhere around a thousand billion years.

Not very likely, then, that they are close enough to have found us in the eight billion years or so that they actually had.

[Cealocanth]

Okay, well, taking the bit about the planets and the chance of life developing on any one:
Life is extremely unlikely to develop. I think we can all accept that. Sentient life is even less likely.
Life on Earth took about three-point-five billion years to develop to the point of sentience. It is possible, though, that it could develop faster or slower depending on mutations, so we will widen that range to two-point-five years. Anything less than that is probably getting into the "ludicrous" range.
The first planets formed some time around thirteen billion years ago, but it is extremely unlikely that life - let alone sentient life - would form that early. Since the only baseline we have for such measurements is Earth, we'll use it: it took about a billion years after the planet's formation for life to form. That places us at twelve billion years on the universal timescale before the first life can form, and on to the nine-billion-year range before sentience developed. It took about half a billion years for humans to go from our earliest forms to the current homo sapiens sapiens, placing us at about eight-point-five billion years, and another half a billion years to get to our current state of technological development. That puts us at about eight billion years.
Now, assuming that we get lucky and another sentient species develops in our very own Milky Way, we can start calculating odds of one species stumbling across another.
The Milky Way contains somewhere in the area of one hundred to four hundred billion stars. For the purpose of keeping things simple, let's put the distance between stars at around ten light years. So to cover a quarter of the galaxy, the hypothetical sentient race would take somewhere around a thousand billion years.

Not very likely, then, that they are close enough to have found us in the eight billion years or so that they actually had.

Now excuse my brick wallieness but, life wasn't very likely. YOu said it yourself. But it seemed as if as soon as Earth could support life, life was there. Could you please calculate the chances of a planet with life evolving? Did you factor that in? I'm pretty sure it will only decrease the chances but I'm curious.

[Boci]

Now excuse my brick wallieness but, life wasn't very likely. YOu said it yourself. But it seemed as if as soon as Earth could support life, life was there. Could you please calculate the chances of a planet with life evolving? Did you factor that in? I'm pretty sure it will only decrease the chances but I'm curious.

Intelligence was a crime against nature. A disease we scattered across the universe in the vain attempt to delay our inevitable defeat in an unwinnable war.

Its 2.25 in the morning. I'm allowed to be random.

[Ravens_cry]

Intelligence was a crime against nature. A disease we scattered across the universe in the vain attempt to delay our inevitable defeat in an unwinnable war.

Its 2.25 in the morning. I'm allowed to be random.
YOU MAY AS WELL KNOW THIS. DOWN IN THE DEEPEST KINGDOM OF THE SEA, WHERE THERE IS NO LIGHT, THERE LIVES A TYPE OF CREATURE WITH NO BRAIN, NO EYES AND NO MOUTH. IT DOES NOTHING BUT LIVE AND PUT FORTH PETALS OF PERFECT CRIMSON WHERE NONE ARE THERE TO SEE. IT IS NOTHING EXCEPT A TINY yes IN THE NIGHT. AND YET... IT HAS ENEMIES THAT BEAR IT A VICIOUS, UNBENDING MALICE, WHO WISH NOT ONLY FOR ITS TINY LIFE TO BE OVER BUT ALSO THAT IT HAD NEVER EXISTED. ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?
"Well, yes, but — "
GOOD, NOW, IMAGINE WHAT THEY THINK OF HUMANITY.

[golentan]

Intelligence was a crime against nature. A disease we scattered across the universe in the vain attempt to delay our inevitable defeat in an unwinnable war.

Its 2.25 in the morning. I'm allowed to be random.

I wonder if we know the same people?

Anyway, it's not unwinnable. It's just... Unlikely. Still, when the options are "roll over and die" or "bet on the longshot," I'll put my money on the table every time. And even if the Void triumphs, even if all my plans and struggles are in vain, I plan to go into the maw of oblivion metaphorically flipping it the bird as I do. And may it choke on my dusty, shriveled old soul.

It doesn't matter if we win. Only that we try to.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Now excuse my brick wallieness but, life wasn't very likely. YOu said it yourself. But it seemed as if as soon as Earth could support life, life was there. Could you please calculate the chances of a planet with life evolving? Did you factor that in? I'm pretty sure it will only decrease the chances but I'm curious.

Well, I don't think we can really go into the odds of life originating on Earth because of the forum's bans on religious discussion and possible divine intervention changes the odds alot.

[Cealocanth]

Well, I don't think we can really go into the odds of life originating on Earth because of the forum's bans on religious discussion and possible divine intervention changes the odds alot.

That's why we work off of what we can prove scientificly, and not my version of scientific involving things I think could be plausible, your version of scientific, you know, the one that involves real calculations and known theories and facts...

[Cealocanth]

YOU MAY AS WELL KNOW THIS. DOWN IN THE DEEPEST KINGDOM OF THE SEA, WHERE THERE IS NO LIGHT, THERE LIVES A TYPE OF CREATURE WITH NO BRAIN, NO EYES AND NO MOUTH. IT DOES NOTHING BUT LIVE AND PUT FORTH PETALS OF PERFECT CRIMSON WHERE NONE ARE THERE TO SEE. IT IS NOTHING EXCEPT A TINY yes IN THE NIGHT. AND YET... IT HAS ENEMIES THAT BEAR IT A VICIOUS, UNBENDING MALICE, WHO WISH NOT ONLY FOR ITS TINY LIFE TO BE OVER BUT ALSO THAT IT HAD NEVER EXISTED. ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?
"Well, yes, but — "
GOOD, NOW, IMAGINE WHAT THEY THINK OF HUMANITY.

I've never heard of such a creature. Could you provode a picture, even a name that can be googled?

[RandomNPC]

I've never heard of such a creature. Could you provode a picture, even a name that can be googled?

If i'm not mistaken, (and I may be) that's just a quote from DEATH from a Terry Pratchet book.

if that is the case, I highly sugest reading it, the books with death are the best.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

That's why we work off of what we can prove scientificly, and not my version of scientific involving things I think could be plausible, your version of scientific, you know, the one that involves real calculations and known theories and facts...

There's not much we're certain about aboigenisis and some of the main theories oppose some major religious views, so there's nothing real to be added to that topic that we can talk about on these boards.

As a sidenote: Does the ban on religion include religions no longer practiced? As in, a topic disscussing the Abrahamic God or Shiva would be locked, but would one, say, comparing the gods of a campaign setting to classical mythology be tolerated?

[Cobalt]

As a sidenote: Does the ban on religion include religions no longer practiced? As in, a topic disscussing the Abrahamic God or Shiva would be locked, but would one, say, comparing the gods of a campaign setting to classical mythology be tolerated?

That sounds like something to ask in Board/Site Issues. My guess is that it's too close to the line, though.

[Ravens_cry]

If i'm not mistaken, (and I may be) that's just a quote from DEATH from a Terry Pratchet book.

if that is the case, I highly sugest reading it, the books with death are the best.
Yes, it is Death quote, and these, or similar things, may be what Sir Terry was referring to (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cephalopodcast/374134381/). They certainly fit the description.

[Cealocanth]

There's not much we're certain about aboigenisis and some of the main theories oppose some major religious views, so there's nothing real to be added to that topic that we can talk about on these boards.

Fair enough. I studied all about the theories and the origin of life. Too bad I can't even discuss it. Oh well, back to my fun.

[The Watchman]

Now excuse my brick wallieness but, life wasn't very likely. YOu said it yourself. But it seemed as if as soon as Earth could support life, life was there. Could you please calculate the chances of a planet with life evolving? Did you factor that in? I'm pretty sure it will only decrease the chances but I'm curious.

As others have already said, probably against forum rules. Sorry.


YOU MAY AS WELL KNOW THIS. DOWN IN THE DEEPEST KINGDOM OF THE SEA, WHERE THERE IS NO LIGHT, THERE LIVES A TYPE OF CREATURE WITH NO BRAIN, NO EYES AND NO MOUTH. IT DOES NOTHING BUT LIVE AND PUT FORTH PETALS OF PERFECT CRIMSON WHERE NONE ARE THERE TO SEE. IT IS NOTHING EXCEPT A TINY yes IN THE NIGHT. AND YET... IT HAS ENEMIES THAT BEAR IT A VICIOUS, UNBENDING MALICE, WHO WISH NOT ONLY FOR ITS TINY LIFE TO BE OVER BUT ALSO THAT IT HAD NEVER EXISTED. ARE YOU WITH ME SO FAR?
"Well, yes, but — "
GOOD, NOW, IMAGINE WHAT THEY THINK OF HUMANITY.

Ah... Good book. Good book.


If i'm not mistaken, (and I may be) that's just a quote from DEATH from a Terry Pratchet book.

if that is the case, I highly sugest reading it, the books with death are the best.

Yes, it's a Death quote. As for the Death books being the best, that's a matter of opinion. While I love the character of Death, I would say that the City Watch books are equally amazing, particularly Night Watch and Thud!. My avatar is actually fan art of the Guarding Dark, and I take my username from my love of the guards' books.

Yes, I'm a Disc fanboy. :smallbiggrin:

[mucat]

Well, I don't think we can really go into the odds of life originating on Earth because of the forum's bans on religious discussion and possible divine intervention changes the odds alot.
Nonsense. We can talk about the odds of life appearing according to purely physical laws, and leave the question of divine intervention to other venues.

If we were to drop discussion of a scientific question any time we suspcted that someone, somewhere, might want to interject their religious beliefs into it, then we could never discuss anything at all.

[golentan]

Nonsense. We can talk about the odds of life appearing according to purely physical laws, and leave the question of divine intervention to other venues.

If we were to drop discussion of a scientific question any time we suspcted that someone, somewhere, might want to interject their religious beliefs into it, then we could never discuss anything at all.

True. Bacon is an acceptable topic, for example (see the foods thread).

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Nonsense. We can talk about the odds of life appearing according to purely physical laws, and leave the question of divine intervention to other venues.

If we were to drop discussion of a scientific question any time we suspcted that someone, somewhere, might want to interject their religious beliefs into it, then we could never discuss anything at all.

But there are two (mostly) opposing sides to the argument and we can only discuss one side on this forum. Many of the arguments against that side cannot be talked about here, so the discussion will be biased towards it and it won't be a disscusion, since neither side can be prperly represented.

It's like how science teachers in public schools won't go near evolution.

I agree on the second point you said, but most of the stuff why disscuss here is unaffected by someone's religious beliefs, so so long as we avoid stuff that directly challenges someones religion, we should be fine.

[The Watchman]

It's like how science teachers in public schools won't go near evolution.

Where did you go to school? :smallconfused:

[Cobalt]

But there are two (mostly) opposing sides to the argument and we can only discuss one side on this forum. Many of the arguments against that side cannot be talked about here, so the discussion will be biased towards it and it won't be a disscusion, since neither side can be prperly represented.

It's like how science teachers in public schools won't go near evolution.

I agree on the second point you said, but most of the stuff why disscuss here is unaffected by someone's religious beliefs, so so long as we avoid stuff that directly challenges someones religion, we should be fine.

I like how you snuck this lie in here. Mine won't stop talking about it ("I'm not forcing you to believe anything," followed immediately by "We came from fish."), and believe me; we've tried to get him to stop. He won't.

[Tricksy Hobbits]

Nevermind that simile, it turns out I was misinformed. That's what I get for trusting the hyperbolic anecdotes that filter across the border. Anyway, it is similar to the controversy over the teaching of creationalism and evolution in public schools, in that only one side is really presented. (Let's not go into it further, it is better to err on the side of caution with the forum bans.)

[Cobalt]

Nevermind that simile, it turns out I was misinformed. That's what I get for trusting the hyperbolic anecdotes that filter across the border. Anyway, it is similar to the controversy over the teaching of creationalism and evolution in public schools, in that only one side is really presented. (Let's not go into it further, it is better to err on the side of caution with the forum bans.)

There ya go. Now you're right on the money.