FIFA 2010 World Cup

[ForzaFiori]

I figure it's finally close enough to the start of the worlds largest sporting event (other than the olympics) for a thread about it to come up. For those that don't follow soccer (and yet still looked at the thread...odd), the World Cup is the Super Bowl (or equivalent, if your not in the US) of soccer, except world wide (hence the name). This year it's being held in South Africa. Top 5 teams, ranking wise are: Brazil, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, and Italy. Ivory Coast, Germany, and Argentina are also expected to do very well.

Onward to the discussing!

Personally, I am a Italy fan, because lets face it, I can't pull for the US, since we always lose. I would love to see them win, as they would then be tied with Brazil for the most WC wins. However, without Totti, I doubt it'll happen.
If, for some reason, the world decides to start listening to what I want, this would be an awesome semi-finals and final setup:

Semi-finals
Italy v. Portugal
Brazil v. Spain

Bronze Metal match:
Portugal v. Brazil

Finals:
Italy v. Spain.

Gold:Italy
Silver: Spain
Bronze: Brazil.


However, I'm expecting either Spain or Brazil to win, the other take silver, and a toss up between Italy and Portugal for Bronze. Hopefully Italy.

[Topus]

Personally, I am a Italy fan [...] I would love to see them win [...] However, without Totti, I doubt it'll happen.
Did you see Totti's foul on Balotelli in Roma-Inter, final match of Coppa Italia?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eckb-bxRAqE

He is too nervous, in this moment he is not able to handle a situation under pressure.
I hope will win, but, honestly, this time it's not a very good team.
Saturday Inter won the Champions League, but the team was non-italian (julio cesar, cambiasso, zanetti, pandev, et'o, snejder, milito, lucio, maicon, chivu, samuel, even the coach mourinho).

By the way if you like soccer you must see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcWwTLMGttE

:)

[Killer Angel]

Saturday Inter won the Champions League, but the team was non-italian (julio cesar, cambiasso, zanetti, pandev, et'o, snejder, milito, lucio, maicon, chivu, samuel, even the coach mourinho).


But Materazzi played for 3 minutes! And Milito's family tree is similar to Camoranesi's! We won!!:smalltongue:
(...better to stop here. Soccer discussion can be more dangerous than political ones. :smallwink:)

Anyway, after Italy, my favourite team for the World Cup is England. (Capello rulez)

[Capt Spanner]

Being born and raised in England, England are naturally the team I'd like to see win it.

If they play like they did against Mexico last night, they won't.

I have a German mother, so if England go out, they'd be my second team, and a Dutch girlfriend so they'll be my third team.

Some stock market analysts went and predicted that England will win (Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64H1SM20100518)), with the Dutch in third place.

[dehro]

uhm...let's see...usually I always support either holland and italy (unless they are squared against each other, in which case holland takes precedence what with being the underdog...I like me an underdog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHyVN14v7FM))
reason for that being that I'm a mixed bag in several ways, nationality being one of them.

now however I live in england, and the english coach is an italian with quite a reputation...so...they might end up doing something right for once, if they can manage to keep the wags on a leash..

but still...I'd love to see an italy-holland final match...which I don't even know whether it's at all possible or not.

[paddyfool]

I doubt England will win; even though we're in with a better shot than most previous cups, we're still only 8th in the FIFA world rankings (http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html). However, the England-USA matches should be interesting, in that there'll be much upset over the internets whatever the outcome.

As always, I'd like the real underdog nations to do well. PRK, for instance, although they're sure to get their posteriors handed to them with Brazil, Portugal, and Cote d'Ivoire in their group, and also the host nation in particular, since that'll help the general mood around the cup.

EDIT @Dehro,

The Netherlands and Italy are in Group E and F, and the 1st team from each of those groups will play the 2nd from the other in the second round, so if that's how they place, that'll be when they meet. However, if they both place 1st in their groups, their only chance of meeting would be in the final. EDIT: Or the play-off for 3rd place.

[Delta]

Germany is having so much bad luck injury-wise recently it's not funny anymore. First our Nr. 1 goalkeeper Rene Adler has to pull out of the World Cup squad due to rib injuries, then team captain Michael Ballack gets injured in the FA Cup final (after a foul from berlin-born Kevin Prince Boateng of all people, who left Germany after playing for all youth national squads and who will now play for Ghana in the world cup) and now one of the few remaining substitutes for defensive midfield and full-back, Christian Träsch, was injured in a test game yesterday, is likely to miss the cup as well.

Keeps getting better and better each day :smallfrown:

[toasty]

I feel the need to root for the USA, even though I'm not really into football. I do have to say though, the World Cup is really fun to watch. Darn good football.

If the USA fails (which they will) my vote goes to Brazil.

[dehro]

@Dehro,

The Netherlands and Italy are in Group E and F, and the 1st team from each of those groups will play the 2nd from the other in the second round, so if that's how they place, that'll be when they meet. However, if they both place 1st in their groups, their only chance of meeting would be in the final. EDIT: Or the play-off for 3rd place.

ooooooooooh! interesting!

I knew I shoulda followed this whole thing properly... but I'm not much of a footie, except for the world cup..so...
thanks for the info anyhoo...now I know this I'll be rooting accordingly (was going to hope for things to go that way anyway, I suppose, lol..what with it requiring straight wins from both teams)
mind you...I don't think it will actually happen.. the chances of either of them making it as far as the final aren't really big, as far as I understand...let alone both of them.
(fifa ratings...don't mean all that much, once the ball is rolling)

and then there's the unknown factor of referees...with the idiotic idea that all continents MUST be represented referee-wise, this means there are some pretty sub-par referees out there, as has been the case in many of the most controversial matches in past editions...so...let's hope for the best.

[paddyfool]

I feel the need to root for the USA, even though I'm not really into football. I do have to say though, the World Cup is really fun to watch. Darn good football.

If the USA fails (which they will) my vote goes to Brazil.

I take Dehro's point on the world rankings not meaning that much, but if you look at the USA's group, they've got the second-highest world ranking (14th, compared to England's 8th, Slovenia's 23rd and Algeria's 31st), so they should have a decent shot at ranking 1st or 2nd, and thus at least advancing to the second round.

EDIT: @Dehro - another interesting, if unlikely, possibility that I forgot to mention was both teams ranking 2nd in their groups, and then going on to meet in either the final or the 3rd place play-offs.

[toasty]

I take Dehro's point on the world rankings not meaning that much, but if you look at the USA's group, they've got the second-highest world ranking (14th, compared to England's 8th, Slovenia's 23rd and Algeria's 31st), so they should have a decent shot at ranking 1st or 2nd, and thus at least advancing to the second round.

Oh, the US always does okay. I mean, we have a FIFA team, and we get a team every World Cup, which is more than a lot of nations can say. But winning? No... not once in m 18 years has the US done well enough (to my memory) to have a really good chance at winning.

[dehro]

EDIT: @Dehro - another interesting, if unlikely, possibility that I forgot to mention was both teams ranking 2nd in their groups, and then going on to meet in either the final or the 3rd place play-offs.

I realised that..as it's the flipside of the chance of them both winning their groups... but as you say, not very likely... italy got lucky in their group draw, very lucky. (but then, italy has a history of making it difficult for themselves by loosing matches against less than reputable opponents..so...we'll see)

[Delta]

I take Dehro's point on the world rankings not meaning that much, but if you look at the USA's group, they've got the second-highest world ranking (14th, compared to England's 8th, Slovenia's 23rd and Algeria's 31st), so they should have a decent shot at ranking 1st or 2nd, and thus at least advancing to the second round.

The US definitely have a very decent chance of advancing to the second round, yes, I really can't see anyone beat England for the first spot in this group (but then, you never know), but under normal circumstances, I think the US should be in for second place.

[comicshorse]

As an Englishman I'd love to say we're going to win it. BUT.... I see us crashing out in a penalty shootout....yet again

[Topus]

and then there's the unknown factor of referees...with the idiotic idea that all continents MUST be represented referee-wise, this means there are some pretty sub-par referees out there, as has been the case in many of the most controversial matches in past editions...

oh, here in Italy we all remember very well referee Byron Moreno...

[Fri]

The US definitely have a very decent chance of advancing to the second round, yes, I really can't see anyone beat England for the first spot in this group (but then, you never know), but under normal circumstances, I think the US should be in for second place.

US is infuriating for a lot of country :smallbiggrin:

They don't even like football, but they always got a spot in the World Cup. On the other side, there are a lot of countries where football is their religion or something, but never got a chance to play in the world cup.

[dehro]

oh, here in Italy we all remember very well referee Byron Moreno...

my point exactly :smallwink:
actually..that man was just an arse...and not from a football-ignorant country either.

I've had a look at the referees...there are people from dismally small countries, who I don't think have ever refereed (is that even a word?) an international match before.
I'm all for equal opportunities, but you want somebody experienced and who knows how to handle players who earn in a week more than they earn in a year and who know all the tricks in the books. (not to mention having enough confidence to handle the pressure off the world looking over your shoulder and more people in the stadium than live in your home town :smalleek:)

look at this list...you'll find that a great number of them have "been international" for several years..but haven't actually got a "first international match" listed, which means they're qualified but have never done it before... a bit like having a driving licence and knowing your way around a racetrack and being handed the pilot seat of a F1 car...in championship race (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/referees/index.html)

[toasty]

US is infuriating for a lot of country :smallbiggrin:

They don't even like football, but they always got a spot in the World Cup. On the other side, there are a lot of countries where football is their religion or something, but never got a chance to play in the world cup.

It is indeed interesting.

My cousins though, who grew up in Peru, really like Football, though. They also watch it on the Spanish channel. :smalltongue:

[KilltheToy]

US is infuriating for a lot of country :smallbiggrin:

They don't even like football, but they always got a spot in the World Cup. On the other side, there are a lot of countries where football is their religion or something, but never got a chance to play in the world cup.

Well, there are some of us like me and my brother who do like it to some degree, but we're the exception to the rule.

In other news, I'd like Germany to win since I'm an unrepentant Germanophile. Failing that, the United States winning would be nice.

[SMEE]

Given US result in the last Confederate Cup, I'd say that have a chance to surprise in this World Cup.
Brazil is ranked high among the favorites, even with our coach not picking up some good players that are going through a nice phase right now, such as Ronaldinho Gaucho.
Spain might fall pray of the same curse that destroyed Brazil last cup. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up falling at eights of finals or quarter of finals.

Germany got a strong team, and can win this cup. Italy... not so much.

It'll be fun to watch. I'll be rooting for Brazil, US and Germany.

[Topus]

not to mention having enough confidence to handle the pressure off the world looking over your shoulder[/URL]
It is indeed the most influential thing. You know, you can study and you can practise your ability to discover bluffs. But you can't learn how to handle the wave of emotions during a World Cup match, in a stadium full of people.

[Fostire]

I'm not really a football fan but the world cup is always fun to watch. Double fun this year since my girlfriend actually likes football so I can watch the games with her.

Uruguay got in this year so I should probably root for them but I don't think they have a chance of winning. At most they'll get through the first round.
I also have Italian and German heritage so I'll probably end up rooting for those but I have no idea what their chances are.

[Sereg]

Unfortunately, I happen to live very close to Loftus Stadium and walk past it on my way to University every day. Therefore, it's a little inconveniant for me, but I'm hoping that it will benefit my country overall.

[Weezer]

I'm really looking forward to it, it is one of the few big sporting events that I actually enjoy watching. As for who I'm rooting for, probably U.S., England and Italy are my three favorites.

Actually tonight I'm going to watch the U.S. vs. Czech Rep. game, it should be lots of fun.

[Arlion]

If Argentina can play as a team like they had donde on the last 2 matches,they have a enormous chance of winning.I mean,we have like,some of the best players in the world (Messi,Tevez,Milito,etc).With our last victory against Canada (5-0) i would say that we are great candidates (even while Canada wasnt a strong oponent)

[Fostire]

If Argentina can play as a team like they had donde on the last 2 matches,they have a enormous chance of winning.I mean,we have like,some of the best players in the world (Messi,Tevez,Milito,etc).With our last victory against Canada (5-0) i would say that we are great candidates (even while Canada wasnt a strong oponent)

There really isn't much to brag about beating Canada at soccer :smalltongue:

[Aedilred]

I'm an Englishman born and raised, so have a natural allegiance towards the England team, obviously. However, I find the overyhpe and arrogance of many English fans (and pundits!) combined with the frequent torpidity of the play, turns me off rather. I've never been able to get too upset about England's being knocked out- at least, not since Euro 96, when I was but an impressionable lad.

These days- although I will and do still support England- I'm primarily a Spain fan. I fell in love with the Spanish in around Euro 2000, when they seemed to offer everything that England didn't, except of course the all-important place in the final. Since then I've been on a rollercoaster ride with both teams, and while I was overjoyed to see Spain finally break the hoodoo in 2008, it was rather bittersweet, as the generation of players that had got me into supporting Spain in the first place had been- somewhat callously in some cases, I think- dropped and have never been reinstated. Still, I'll be backing Spain all the way this time.

I don't think they'll win it, though. They're unquestionably the best team in the world man-for-man, but they no longer have Aragones (not to cast any aspersions on del Bosque, but he's not as versatile or ruthless a coach) and they've always lacked a plan B. It worked for them in the Euros as the quality of opposition was generally mediocre but I think they'll struggle to sustain it against some of the world sides on display here. They came a cropper in the Confederations Cup against the USA, let's not forget.

I don't think Brazil will do it either. At the Cup it was amply demonstrated that their primary weakness is a blitz through the centre of midfield, and the Dutch are the best blitzers in the business; I can't see Brazil beating them. They've also got only one of the Magic Quartet (Kaka) even in the squad, and he's desperately off form. Argentina have perhaps the strongest squad save that of Spain, but with Maradona in charge who can tell whether half of them will even be on the plane. Unless they can somehow limit his influence- preferably by sacking him- their campaign could be a complete disaster.

I think the winner could be a surprise. The traditional World Cup powers- save Brazil and the Netherlands- are weak (Argentina struggling with a comedy coach; Italy increasingly creaky; Germany missing their key players; France a shadow of their former selves) while there are some exciting teams from South America and Africa- Chile are the standouts here, but Ghana, Ivory Coast and even Uruguay have all got real potential. Mexico have a strong team, and Australia and the USA are no longer laughing stocks either. Whether any of them have what it takes to go all the way, who knows... I'm not putting any money on any matches past the group stages, though!

[Delta]

It worked for them in the Euros as the quality of opposition was generally mediocre but I think they'll struggle to sustain it against some of the world sides on display here.

Wait what? :smallconfused: The general quality in the European Cup as a whole is actually higher than that of the World Cup, because save for Brazil and maybe Argentina (but judging from what Maradona has done with the team so far, I'm not really impressed), all of the top soccer nations are from Europe, and even the "second guard" of european soccer nations is better than many other nations from round the world you will find at the World Cup.

In the Euros, they had to face Russia, Sweden and Greece in the group games, I don't really think you can expect stronger competition than that from sides like Switzerland, Honduras and Chile this time.

[Aedilred]

The average quality in the Euros may be higher, but you wouldn't know it from the performances of Spain's opponents in 2008. Greece were a dreadful side, coasting from four years earlier, and it's incredible that it was against Spain that they scored their only goal. Sweden were their usual post-Larsson selves; organised in midfield but largely toothless in attack, although Spain still struggled to break them down- in fact, although Sweden still lost, they looked more assured against Spain than they had against Greece. It took a last-minute gamble from Spain- the sort they have since eschewed- to get a win from that match. Russia were more formidable opposition, but they lacked Arshavin in the group match and, in the semi-final, looked like a beaten side before they even made it onto the pitch.

For the quarter-final, Italy came out looking like they would be happy with a 0-0 draw and to take the match to penalties, and managed it. Spain passed them off the park, but couldn't fashion an opportunity. Had the Italians bothered to muster a single attempt on goal all match, they might have succeeded in puncturing the hitherto leaky Spanish defence and carried the game. And in the final, well, there's no two ways about it, but that was the worst performance by Germany that I'd seen since 2001. Spain should have wrapped that up four- or five- nil. So poor were the Germans that it sapped the energy from the victory celebrations.

There were some excellent sides on display at Euro 2008, but they never played the Dutch, and Russia and Germany, the other two stand-out teams, never showed up for their knockout matches against Spain.

As for the quality of world opposition, well, Chile did finish top of their group (above Brazil and Argentina), so they can't be written off. The African Cup of Nations showcased how good a lot of African football has become, and it's tight at the top, too- the CoN champions didn't even qualify for the WC. These sides might not have a history at the World Cup but that doesn't make them any less competent; the European dominance of 2006 was largely a fluke and it's been four years since then in any case. Sure, there are some makeweights, but there were at the Euros too (I mean, Austria). There are a lot of up-and-coming top-30 teams present, and, with only three exceptions, none of the big boys look assured enough at this point for me to be confident that they can hold them off.

[Kobold-Bard]

I already have my stool booked for every match in the local pub. It's my first World Cup away from home and I intend to to it in true English style :smallcool:

After England get knocked out (and lets be honest, they definitely will) I'll be rooting for Spain. They're a good team and unlike France, Germany, Argentina and Italy I don't have some inexplicable, in-built grudge against their national team. Brazil winning is just too obvious and predictable :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

italy was coached by a man (donadoni) who only got the job because of the whole mess italian football was in and because his old team-mate Albertini was the man who had to name the new coach.
I never understood how anybody could appoint donadoni, a man who has hiterto won nothing, to coach the national team..

[MikelaC1]

After England get knocked out (and lets be honest, they definitely will)

Dont be too quick to count your English team out. They are coached by the devious Italian Capello, and he will have some surprises ready. And lets face it, your group is an easy win.

[Cicciograna]

As an Italian, I will obviously pull for my team. But there are a few considerations: first of all, it's good that Totti stays home. He doesn't have the sprint of the old times, and has become annoying and nervous; I'm happy that Del Piero stays home too, as the best he did in our Championship is raking very dubious penalty kicks. Finally, I do not share Lippi's convocations: the team is inexplicably full of players from Juventus, which this year DID NOT fare good; many good players from other teams were not called (first and foremost Cassano).

Apart from Italy, since I'm from Napoli, I'll pull for Argentina because Maradona is a God in my city, and because three of our best players (namely Ezequiel "Pocho" Lavezzi, German Denis and Hugo Campagnaro) are fellow countrymen of Diego; as in the Serie A I strongly pull for Napoli and love my players, I'll pull also for Slovakia (since Marek Hamsik is slovakian) and Uruguay (Walter Gargano).


italy was coached by a man (donadoni) who only got the job because of the whole mess italian football was in and because his old team-mate Albertini was the man who had to name the new coach.
I never understood how anybody could appoint donadoni, a man who has hiterto won nothing, to coach the national team..
I completely share your point of view. He was a total mess at Napoli too.

[comicshorse]

Dont be too quick to count your English team out. They are coached by the devious Italian Capello, and he will have some surprises ready. And lets face it, your group is an easy win.

I don't think anyone doubts England will go through to the next round. It's later they always choke

[ForzaFiori]

Dont be too quick to count your English team out. They are coached by the devious Italian Capello, and he will have some surprises ready. And lets face it, your group is an easy win.

I would like to point out that the USA is also favored for making it out of that group. Just cause your good enough to get out, doesn't mean you'll go anywhere. Plus the fact that England has some kind of curse on them after they get out of groups. They can be amazingly strong in their group, and still go down quickly afterwards.

[Kobold-Bard]

I don't think anyone doubts England will go through to the next round. It's later they always choke

Exactly. We get just so far and then fail gloriously/pathetically depending on the opponent.

[Delta]

Russia were more formidable opposition, but they lacked Arshavin in the group match and, in the semi-final, looked like a beaten side before they even made it onto the pitch.

Did you actually watch that whole game or just the second half? Because in the first half, it was actually absolutely nothing like that, at all, with Russia matching Spain quite well. In the second half, Spain managed to brilliantly shut down Russia's fullbacks after which they never managed to get back in the game. That win was a tactical masterpiece by Spain, nothing more, nothing less.


Had the Italians bothered to muster a single attempt on goal all match, they might have succeeded in puncturing the hitherto leaky Spanish defence and carried the game. And in the final, well, there's no two ways about it, but that was the worst performance by Germany that I'd seen since 2001. Spain should have wrapped that up four- or five- nil. So poor were the Germans that it sapped the energy from the victory celebrations.

Yes, well, maybe it was that way, and each and every one of Spains' opponents played absolutely miserably, but maybe, only maybe, it's actually a sign of a good side at work that manages to shut down their opponents.


As for the quality of world opposition, well, Chile did finish top of their group (above Brazil and Argentina), so they can't be written off.

I'm not writing them off. But I wouldn't judge them higher than for example Russia in 2008.


These sides might not have a history at the World Cup but that doesn't make them any less competent; the European dominance of 2006 was largely a fluke and it's been four years since then in any case.

That might be a valid argument if we were actually only talking about 2006. But as you can easily see, this european dominance is absolutely not limited to the last couple years, actually, there was NEVER a time when european sides were NOT dominant in the world cup, with the only exception being Brazil and Argentina. History has shown us often enough that many of those smaller, promising candidates from around the world usually fail to deliver in the knock-out matches of the tournament, I really hope the african nations manage some upsets this time, but I don't see it happening, to be honest.

[Mauther]

Personally, I am a Italy fan, because lets face it, I can't pull for the US, since we always lose. I would love to see them win, as they would then be tied with Brazil for the most WC wins. However, without Totti, I doubt it'll happen.

I'm rooting for USA (way dark horse, but this is the best chance they've ever had), but once there out I'll be pulling for England (right up until Rooney's leg falls off, then they are done.) I refuse to root for France (cheating cheaters for Cheatersburg) and Italy can't be allowed to win because of that running dog traitor Guiseppe Rossi. As much as it kills me Brazil is in the form to win it all. So once US and UK are out, my official position is "Anyone but Brazil"

[Cicciograna]

and Italy can't be allowed to win because of that running dog traitor Guiseppe Rossi.

What did Rossi do?

[Delta]

(right up until Rooney's leg falls off, then they are done.)

I think this will be Englands downfall, in the end. Some time in the knock-out matches, they will face an opponent that will succesfully shut down Rooney for most of the match, and I don't really see their offense strong enough to compensate for that. But then, of course, with a player like Rooney, you don't need more than one or two chances to potentially win a game, so you never know.

[skywalker]

I figure it's finally close enough to the start of the worlds largest sporting event (other than the olympics) for a thread about it to come up. For those that don't follow soccer (and yet still looked at the thread...odd), the World Cup is the Super Bowl (or equivalent, if your not in the US) of soccer, except world wide (hence the name).

More like... The World Cup is the World Cup.

Premier League (and even moreso, Champions League) are the Super Bowl. World Cup is like 7 nations, or Test Cricket, or the tennis Slams, or the Olympics. Super Bowl is cool and all, but in my personal opinion, there's nothing like representing your country on the world's biggest stage in your sport. Listen to guys like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant(!) talk about playing in the Olympics. It's nuts.


Germany is having so much bad luck injury-wise recently it's not funny anymore. First our Nr. 1 goalkeeper Rene Adler has to pull out of the World Cup squad due to rib injuries, then team captain Michael Ballack gets injured in the FA Cup final (after a foul from berlin-born Kevin Prince Boateng of all people, who left Germany after playing for all youth national squads and who will now play for Ghana in the world cup) and now one of the few remaining substitutes for defensive midfield and full-back, Christian Träsch, was injured in a test game yesterday, is likely to miss the cup as well.

You're actually perhaps better off without Ballack. Old, old, old. At least you can replace him now, instead of having him get hurt in the middle of the tournament.


The US definitely have a very decent chance of advancing to the second round, yes, I really can't see anyone beat England for the first spot in this group (but then, you never know), but under normal circumstances, I think the US should be in for second place.

I'm curious how not having Left Foot for the first time in a long time will go for them.


As an Englishman I'd love to say we're going to win it. BUT.... I see us crashing out in a penalty shootout....yet again

Maybe, tho, not having Left Foot will actually give them some sort of karmic advantage in penalties?


Given US result in the last Confederate Cup, I'd say that have a chance to surprise in this World Cup.

Was wondering when someone would bring up this wisdom.


look at this list...you'll find that a great number of them have "been international" for several years..but haven't actually got a "first international match" listed, which means they're qualified but have never done it before... a bit like having a driving licence and knowing your way around a racetrack and being handed the pilot seat of a F1 car...in championship race (http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/referees/index.html)

That's exactly what happens to rookie F1 drivers now, thanks to the "no testing" rule.


Wait what? :smallconfused: The general quality in the European Cup as a whole is actually higher than that of the World Cup, because save for Brazil and maybe Argentina (but judging from what Maradona has done with the team so far, I'm not really impressed), all of the top soccer nations are from Europe, and even the "second guard" of european soccer nations is better than many other nations from round the world you will find at the World Cup.

In the Euros, they had to face Russia, Sweden and Greece in the group games, I don't really think you can expect stronger competition than that from sides like Switzerland, Honduras and Chile this time.

I think someone might need a little help with Geography...


I think this will be Englands downfall, in the end. Some time in the knock-out matches, they will face an opponent that will succesfully shut down Rooney for most of the match, and I don't really see their offense strong enough to compensate for that. But then, of course, with a player like Rooney, you don't need more than one or two chances to potentially win a game, so you never know.

I will be a much happier soccer fan once one of the best players in the world is... less of a complete arse.

[ForzaFiori]

More like... The World Cup is the World Cup.

Premier League (and even moreso, Champions League) are the Super Bowl. World Cup is like 7 nations, or Test Cricket, or the tennis Slams, or the Olympics. Super Bowl is cool and all, but in my personal opinion, there's nothing like representing your country on the world's biggest stage in your sport. Listen to guys like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant(!) talk about playing in the Olympics. It's nuts.


I was attempting to explain to mainly americans (since we're the only people that don't love soccer) and to most people here, (at least, in the south were I live) the super bowl is considered more important than the olympics. We actually had more people watch the super bowl than comparable amount of time of the olympics. As much as it sucks to admit, were a VERY introverted nation when it comes to sports. Therefor, I compare the rest of the worlds love of the WC, to an Americans love of the Super bowl. it is the highest match up of your favorite sport.

[skywalker]

I was attempting to explain to mainly americans (since we're the only people that don't love soccer) and to most people here, (at least, in the south were I live) the super bowl is considered more important than the olympics. We actually had more people watch the super bowl than comparable amount of time of the olympics. As much as it sucks to admit, were a VERY introverted nation when it comes to sports. Therefor, I compare the rest of the worlds love of the WC, to an Americans love of the Super bowl. it is the highest match up of your favorite sport.

I agree with you... I just don't think it can be explained that way. Because it's a different psychology. Maybe a lot of Americans don't understand it. But every time I watch the Olympics or something similar, I get chills thinking about what it would be like to stand on the podium and sing along to the anthem with the flag behind me.

Maybe I'm weird.

[Mauther]

What did Rossi do?

Snubbed the US (where he would have been a star) to play as spear carrier for Italy. Understandable? Maybe, but so was selling out West Point and you see how that worked out for Benedict Arnold.

[Delta]

I think someone might need a little help with Geography...

Thank you, but living less than an hour from the Swiss border, I actually know where it is ;) That were two completely unrelated remarks, one about how the average quality of the European Cup is better than the World Cup (and it really is), and the other considering Spains group this year compared to their 2008 group.

[SMEE]

I'll be really happy if Brazil avoids the 2006 fiasco, even if we don't win or make it to the finals.
As long as our players do what they should do, I'll be happy.

That being said, nothing would make me happier than seeing US make it to the final and maybe, even win the cup.

Then, 4 years more, and hope that the 1950 tragedy doesn't happen again. 60 years later, and that 2 x 1 to Uruguay still hurts.

[Delta]

You're actually perhaps better off without Ballack. Old, old, old. At least you can replace him now, instead of having him get hurt in the middle of the tournament.

Well, in the one hand, you may be right. But he's still good enough to play a good 6 with this years PL champions, so I wouldn't discard him like that. Still, it's a chance vor Schweinsteiger to prove that he's ready to step up and become a leader in the centre like he's done with Bayern München this season, and Sami Khedira has the potential to play a great tournament as well, but he is yet completely unproven at the international level, and that doesn't sit too well with me.

Even worse, with Träsch out, they're really lacking backups in defensive midfield now, all the other candidates like Westermann oder Lahm are needed on other defensive positions, and all the other midfielders are way too offensive to play a 6.

[dehro]

I was attempting to explain to mainly americans (since we're the only people that don't love soccer) and to most people here, (at least, in the south were I live) the super bowl is considered more important than the olympics. We actually had more people watch the super bowl than comparable amount of time of the olympics. As much as it sucks to admit, were a VERY introverted nation when it comes to sports. Therefor, I compare the rest of the worlds love of the WC, to an Americans love of the Super bowl. it is the highest match up of your favorite sport.
as much as I like the USA and their people...you lot ARE funny, that way..

I always giggle when I read about the world series.
world?
seriously... a sport that is played in..a handfull of countries..and it's not even a tournament involving those countries..it's just the usual american teams amongst each other..
that must be worth a few lols

[KilltheToy]

There really isn't much to brag about beating Canada at soccer :smalltongue:

Seconded. If this was the ice hockey thread, you'd have much to brag about.

Football....not so much.:smalltongue:

[toasty]

that must be worth a few lols

The general defense in regards to this is:

1) MLB players and teams are better anyways.
2) When the World Series started, it was indeed all the Baseball teams in the world.

Having said that, yes, it is rather funny.

[dehro]

The general defense in regards to this is:

1) MLB players and teams are better anyways.
2) When the World Series started, it was indeed all the Baseball teams in the world.

Having said that, yes, it is rather funny.

it's like this comedian over here (in england, that is) said about rugby..not the exact words, but near as makes no difference:
"we never realize that only 7 countries in the world care about rugby, and 4 of those are us"

[ForzaFiori]

I agree with you... I just don't think it can be explained that way. Because it's a different psychology. Maybe a lot of Americans don't understand it. But every time I watch the Olympics or something similar, I get chills thinking about what it would be like to stand on the podium and sing along to the anthem with the flag behind me.

Maybe I'm weird.

Ur only weird for an American. lol. Everyone else in the world gets that feeling. Americans are more like "why are you playing [sport], you could play football or baseball instead!"

@Toasty: That used to be true, but now, not so much. Other countries are getting good baseball teams (much like what happened with basketball, and snowboarding) and there are many more teams.

[Topus]

many good players from other teams were not called (first and foremost Cassano).
you are right, besides being very skilled, now he is more controlled and quiet. No more cassanate! :P

I would like to see Miccoli on the World Cup, but probably he is too young and unexperienced...

[paddyfool]

Ur only weird for an American. lol. Everyone else in the world gets that feeling. Americans are more like "why are you playing [sport], you could play football or baseball instead!"

@Toasty: That used to be true, but now, not so much. Other countries are getting good baseball teams (much like what happened with basketball, and snowboarding) and there are many more teams.

It's still very US-dominated, which is amusing for a UK invention which we ditched in favour of a rather superior, originally dutch, game called "cricket" ;-).

[toasty]

It's still very US-dominated, which is amusing for a UK invention which we ditched in favour of a rather superior, originally dutch, game called "cricket" ;-).

Meh, living in South Asia, everyone plays cricket, but, personally, I think Baseball is better. I mean, Cricket is cool and all, and it has its place. Personally I'd like to see Test and ODI disappear completely in favor of T20, but I still respect the sport.

And yes, there might be some really good Baseball teams out there, but like I said, when the world series started it was the World Series, cuz the sport was pretty much American. Maybe they should consider a name change, but I don't really think that's entirely necessary. Changing the name of the MBL finals just because times have change? Meh... there is some use to that, but there is also something to be said about traditions.


it's like this comedian over here (in england, that is) said about rugby..not the exact words, but near as makes no difference:
"we never realize that only 7 countries in the world care about rugby, and 4 of those are us"

Hmm... so: UK, NZ, South Africa... France (?)

And mind you, Samoa and Fiji are countries... they like rugby a lot. I mean, there are more people in my neighborhood (well... greater neighborhood area) than there are in Fiji and Samoa combined, but nonetheless, they're countries!:smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

It's still very US-dominated, which is amusing for a UK invention which we ditched in favour of a rather superior, originally dutch, game called "cricket" ;-).

oh, the headache! my little brother has played baseball in the past, but even before that I understood how the game worked and it's rules.
I must say however that after 2 and some years of living in uk, I still don't have a clue about cricket.
seriously, I don't.
(reason for that could be that it takes several days to watch an entire match, apparently, and that they seem able to comment on it without using the same words twice for a very long time...and it bores the bejeezus out of me...but I have tried, I promise!)

[paddyfool]

Personally I'd like to see Test and ODI disappear completely in favor of T20, but I still respect the sport.


Burn the heretic.:smallfurious::smallfurious:
:smallwink:



Hmm... so: UK, NZ, South Africa... France (?)


The "four being us" would be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. (Just as the US is a country made up of however-many-states & similar units, the UK is a nation state made up of four countries. We like to confuse people too). The other three would be South Africa, NZ & Australia, although to be fair there are quite a few others.


I must say however that after 2 and some years of living in uk, I still don't have a clue about cricket.
seriously, I don't.
(reason for that could be that it takes several days to watch an entire match, apparently, and that they seem able to comment on it without using the same words twice for a very long time...and it bores the bejeezus out of me...but I have tried, I promise!)

A few helpful hints (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cricket_fielding_positions2.svg) :smallwink::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Cricket_fielding_positions2.svg


Seriously, though, it's got funny nomenclature, but once you're past that it's not all that complicated. And there are shorter versions... if the full on Test cricket's too much for you, there's always one day cricket matches (shorter versions, however, are a vile abomination - see above).

[dehro]

it's no good..every time I approach the subject I feel like a 3-year old menaced with a spoonful of castor oil.


although to be fair there are quite a few others.

true..but then, it was meant as a joke in a quiz-com..not as an accurate statement.

[paddyfool]

it's no good..every time I approach the subject I feel like a 3-year old menaced with a spoonful of castor oil.


Ah, you see, you're approaching this from the wrong perspective. Watching cricket should be a slow, cathartic experience; allow the strange talk of "square legs" and "LBW" wash over you, having faith that it'll either make sense eventually or really doesn't matter, chill out with a beer/cup of tea and some mates, and let go of all your daily cares.

[Killer Angel]

Apart from Italy, since I'm from Napoli, I'll pull for Argentina because Maradona is a God in my city,

Why on earth didn't he took Zanetti and Cambiasso? :smallsigh:

[Delta]

Why on earth didn't he took Zanetti and Cambiasso? :smallsigh:

I'd rather ask why on earth they took Maradona as national coach. He was a great player (arguably maybe even the greatest), but that doesn't mean he's a great coach as well (just look at Lothar Matthäus for a perfect german example of this...)

[dehro]

Why on earth didn't he took Zanetti and Cambiasso? :smallsigh:
ah..football! I don't care about it very much, but at least I'm on firmer ground and understand what I'm talking about.

can we dispense from doing the usual italian thing (I include myself in here too) and take offense about one or the other coach not picking our favourite players? :smalltongue:

[Killer Angel]

ah..football! I don't care about it very much, but at least I'm on firmer ground and understand what I'm talking about.

can we dispense from doing the usual italian thing (I include myself in here too) and take offense about one or the other coach not picking our favourite players? :smalltongue:

Touché. :smalltongue:

[Cicciograna]

Why on earth didn't he took Zanetti and Cambiasso? :smallsigh:

Frankly I don't share many of his choices. I'd taken Lavezzi instead of Palermo, for example. And not because I'm from Napoli, but for an effective difference between the two players.

[Aedilred]

Yes, well, maybe it was that way, and each and every one of Spains' opponents played absolutely miserably, but maybe, only maybe, it's actually a sign of a good side at work that manages to shut down their opponents.
As I say, I'm a big Spain fan, and believe them to be the best side in the world, but I do think they were flattered by the calibre of the opposition they faced in Euro 2008 (the odd passage of play from Russia or Sweden notwithstanding), and I think expectations of their performance at the World Cup have been unfairly inflated. In particular, their style of play is nearly unique in Europe, while it's much more common abroad.


That might be a valid argument if we were actually only talking about 2006. But as you can easily see, this european dominance is absolutely not limited to the last couple years, actually, there was NEVER a time when european sides were NOT dominant in the world cup, with the only exception being Brazil and Argentina. History has shown us often enough that many of those smaller, promising candidates from around the world usually fail to deliver in the knock-out matches of the tournament, I really hope the african nations manage some upsets this time, but I don't see it happening, to be honest.
I'd argue that South America actually has a superior record to Europe in World Cups. Of the eighteen thus far contested, South America and Europe have won nine apiece. Of these, the South Americans have won seven tournaments away compared to Europe's five, and no European team has ever won the Cup outside Europe, while South America has done it three times. That's without taking into account the 1934 Cup, at which South America's best team was absent, and 1938, when only one team from South America even competed.

I chose 2006 as an example because 2002 doesn't do Europe any favours and any further back is an irrelevance; of the four teams to make the final in '02, only one was fully European. Whatever, though, I do think there has been a noticeable decline in the quality of European football in the last five to six years. In the first half of the last decade, there was a whole slew of really great footballers from right across the continent: Zidane; Figo; Nedved; Bergkamp; Raul; Ballack; Shevchenko... Where are the successors to these players now?

Apart from Spain and Holland, the talent is no longer really coming from Europe; almost all the exciting players are from South America or Africa. In 2002, Portugal had a midfield including Figo, Rui Costa and Joao Pinto, now they have Ronaldo, Deco and no-one else of any great note. France used to be able to boast Vieira, Pires, Makelele and Zidane in the same side; now their best midfield players are Ribery and Malouda, and you'd be hard-pressed to mention them in the same breath as their forebears. Neither Germany nor Italy have unearthed any great talents since the last World Cup.

Even if we accept that Europe has dominated the World Cup historically (arguable, and in any case unsurprising given geopolitics and the large numbers of FAs in Europe compared to other confederations) I do think that European football at international level is, in general, in decline. The sides and players who are still at the highest level are as good as they've ever been, but there are fewer of them at that pinnacle. Meanwhile the second tier of world football is becoming home to an increasing number of hungry-looking newcomers. The idea that Europe is the pinnacle of world football and that everyone else is in its shadow displays the same sort of complacency that has led England to an overhyped cropper every two years since 1966.

[dehro]

Neither Germany nor Italy have unearthed any great talents since the last World Cup.

I'm not 100% about that..as a casual observer of the footie scene.
what makes great players stand out is the international scene or the fact that they move to big clubs in other countries...often because their home leagues don't pay big bucks and aren't really a carreer option.
italian, german, spanish and english players have the best tournaments they can hope for, with the biggest bucks, directly in their backyard..don't need to make big showy moves, and can get very good and competitive at home, even in the clubs that are of less renown internationally. in other words, a very good midfielder from say... oviedo or atalanta or any such "minor" team might be just the surprise talent you wouldn't know about..whereas all of the best players of the less wealthy countries are well known because they play over here or in the 2-3 big teams at home that also play in the champions league.
I expect "lesser players" to come to the fore and shine, like Grosso and others like him did in the last world cup

[Aedilred]

Hm, I'll admit I don't know *too* much about the Germans, but looking over the Italian squad, I'm struck by the vast number of caps on display among the likely first-choice team. There are a couple of exciting young talents (at least, as exciting as Italian football gets, zing, etc.) but the key word there is "young"- most of the non-veterans have only played one or two games for the national side during qualifying, which suggests that either Lippi is extremely confident they can pull off a shock, or they're inexperienced and won't get any screentime at the Cup. Criscito and Marchisio are the only two that really stand out as prospects and are contending for starting berths, but they have fewer than ten caps between them.

I admit that it's often- though not always- international football that makes the reputation of a player, but it's been a long time since a relatively unknown player has arrived at a World Cup and run riot- the last I can think of was Ronaldinho in 2002, and even he wasn't exactly a nobody- as usually there's some indication during qualifying. I haven't seen anything like that either from Italy or Germany- or, for that matter, France and Portugal.

I will eat my words if Italy have some exciting young player who sets the cup alight, but Italian football all season has been dominated by foreigners and veterans, so I don't think it's likely.

[paddyfool]

every two years since 1966.

Four years.

[Aedilred]

That was deliberate- we haven't won the Euros either...

[paddyfool]

Ah, I thought perhaps you were referring to the Olympics, which of course we're not allowed to compete in.

[SMEE]

Young rookies at world cup == BAD idea.
There's a lot of pressure going on, and those youngsters might not take it well.
I has happened before. Experience matters, and not only experience in the field.

They have to know how to deal with the media as well, and with the pressure of having a whole nation looking at their steps, expecting them to do more than they can.

[Aedilred]

Ah, I thought perhaps you were referring to the Olympics, which of course we're not allowed to compete in.
It seems that might yet change for 2012- although the Scots, Welsh and NI FAs aren't prepared to contribute their players towards a "team GB" they've given England the green light to play alone under the UK flag. Whether it'll happen, of course, is another matter entirely; I daresay there are several levels of bureaucracy to dig through, as well as the sneaking suspicion that any sort of GB football team taking the field will give Sepp Blatter the impetus to start messing around with the makeup of FIFA.

[Delta]

I'd argue that South America actually has a superior record to Europe in World Cups.

When you speak of "South America", which sides exactly besides Brazil and Argentina do you mean? Uruguay, whose last appearance in the semifinals was about as recent as 40 years ago? I'm really hard pressed to name another one that could even be considered a contender in terms of the World Cup.

Yes, Brazil and Argentina are the two sides outside of Europe that are to be considered for the top teams of the world, that's what I said in my very first post up there, so I really don't see the point you are arguing here.

It's also nice how you failed to mention that out of those eighteen world cups, ten alone took place in Europe, while only four were held in South America, just to show how much your statistics really say.


I chose 2006 as an example because 2002 doesn't do Europe any favours and any further back is an irrelevance; of the four teams to make the final in '02, only one was fully European.

Guess what, only one was South American, and none of the other teams from the continent even managed to get past the group phase. Doesn't look too dominant from where I'm standing.


In 2002, Portugal had a midfield including Figo, Rui Costa and Joao Pinto, now they have Ronaldo, Deco and no-one else of any great note. France used to be able to boast Vieira, Pires, Makelele and Zidane in the same side; now their best midfield players are Ribery and Malouda, and you'd be hard-pressed to mention them in the same breath as their forebears.

That's what you call nostalgia, things always look a lot better from a decade away.


Neither Germany nor Italy have unearthed any great talents since the last World Cup.

That is ridiculous. Germany is absolutely packed with great, talented players at the moment, Bayern Munich managed to reach the Champions League final with no less than four players coming from their own youth squad in their starting line-up, that U21 European Cup win was no random occurence either. Add to that the fact that we have players like Lukas Podolski and Bastian Schweinsteiger, who may seem like old regulars because of their 70+ international starts, but actually, they are only 24 and 25 years old. Germany may have a problem right now because many of the younger players are untested on the international level, but to say that there are no talents in German football while we have players like Khedira, Özil, Kroos, Badstuber, Marin, Träsch, Müller and Boateng on their way to South Africa is ridiculous.

Just because we don't have Messi playing for Germany doesn't mean there are no great talents here.


The idea that Europe is the pinnacle of world football and that everyone else is in its shadow displays the same sort of complacency that has led England to an overhyped cropper every two years since 1966.

I've never said that and you know it. I've said that the average level of play at the European Cup is higher than that of the World Cup, and judging from the last decade, I stand by that statement. What I've also said, is that most "promising" sides coming to the World Cup from outside of the "Top Group" of Europa + Brazil + Argentina have so far almost always failed to deliver in the knock-out matches, and again, judging from the last couple World Cups, I still stand by that statement.

I've said myself it doesn't have to be like that this time, and I'm really eager to see whether any of the African sides manage to make something happen. But that doesn't change history.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Haven't read all the thread (I am lazy SUE me)

But anyone wants to guess how it will go the inauguration math (Mexico vs South Africa)

My guess is Mexico but since we have'nt been playing well...

[ForzaFiori]

I'd argue that South America actually has a superior record to Europe in World Cups. Of the eighteen thus far contested, South America and Europe have won nine apiece. Of these, the South Americans have won seven tournaments away compared to Europe's five, and no European team has ever won the Cup outside Europe, while South America has done it three times. That's without taking into account the 1934 Cup, at which South America's best team was absent, and 1938, when only one team from South America even competed.

South America? No. Brazil and Argentina? Still no. Of the seven countries to win a World Cup, three are from South America (Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay) while four (France, England, Italy, and Germany (formerly West Germany)) are from Europe. In the top three spots, South America is featured once (Brazil, with 5 wins) while Europe is there twice (Italy with 4, and Germany with 3).

If you take into account second and third place years, and continue down the record books of nations, you do not reach another South American country until Chile (one third) at 15th, behind Netherlands (2 runner ups, 1 fourth), Czechoslovakia (2 runner ups), Hungary (2 runner ups), Sweden (1 runner up, 2 thirds, 1 fourth), Poland (2 third), Austria (1 third, 1 fourth), and Portugal (1 third, 1 fourth), all teams from Europe. In the top fifteen nations, twelve are European, to South America's 3.

You could claim that Brazil is the best in the world at the World Cup. That I will concede. They have won 5, and placed (1st-4th place) ten times, compared to Italy's 4 wins and 8 places. You could say that Argentina and Brazil are comparable to the top European nations. Also true. But to say that South America as a whole is better than Europe as a whole is simply lies. Europe has amazing teams across its continent, from England, south to Italy, from Portugal east to Russia. South America has Brazil and Argentina, and USED to have Uruguay. Both of its current teams, I would like to point out, also come from nations with HUGE populations, giving them a much broader talent range, while European nations make due with tiny ranges of people.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Haven't read all the thread (I am lazy SUE me)

But anyone wants to guess how it will go the inauguration math (Mexico vs South Africa)

My guess is Mexico but since we have'nt been playing well...

Mexico played decent (from what I heard) against England, even though did not win. Last night I watched them play Holland and they put up a decent 2nd half.

Holland didn't line up the champion's league finalists-players and substituted 6 times in the 2nd half resulting in pretty much a B-selection during that second half. I believe Mexico did the opposite: start out with a lot of youngsters and put in more 'certain factors' during second half and you could tell from the match: Holland dominated 1st half, Mexico the 2nd.

From what I saw, Mexico should be able to beat South Africa. Unless of course South Africa fully employs the home-advantage and the Mexicans get dazed and confused by those drone-horns (fufuzela's (?)).

[Delta]

I'd be careful to put too much importance on those preparation games. Coaches are still experimenting with tactics, and most players won't play at 100% because they fear injuries.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Aye, but if you play a decent preparation match (or part of it), despite the fact that a coach is experimenting and players not giving their 100%, one might infer you are in decent shape :) .

[Delta]

Aye, but if you play a decent preparation match (or part of it), despite the fact that a coach is experimenting and players not giving their 100%, one might infer you are in decent shape :) .

And one might be very, very wrong. Because it's often easy to look good when the opponent lets you, but it doesn't say a thing about how you will fare against another one that's playing his A game.

[paddyfool]

Also, the preparation matches are partly to decide on the final squad... so you've got an odd situation where the players who might or might not make it will get an unusual amount of time on pitch and try really hard, while those that are sure to be in will be primarily trying not to get injured.

[Aedilred]

Yes, Brazil and Argentina are the two sides outside of Europe that are to be considered for the top teams of the world, that's what I said in my very first post up there, so I really don't see the point you are arguing here.
Well, by the same token, one could argue that if we discount Italy and Germany, Europe's showing at the World Cup has historically been poor, with only two wins, and that Italy and Germany are the two top teams outside South America.


It's also nice how you failed to mention that out of those eighteen world cups, ten alone took place in Europe, while only four were held in South America, just to show how much your statistics really say.
That doesn't change the fact that no European team has ever won the title outside Europe. To be honest, the location of most of the cups in Europe has more to do with the disproportionate power wielded both historically and currently within FIFA by European national FAs than it does the calibre of the football being played.

It's true that only three South American nations have ever won the World Cup, but that's 30% of the teams who are eligible to compete; only four European teams have ever won it, which is less than 10% of the number of teams in UEFA. European teams have traditionally progressed further in the competition, but given the number that compete (thirteen as opposed to four or five from CONMEBOL) that's not really surprising. Nor can this be ascribed to demographics alone:

Both of its current teams, I would like to point out, also come from nations with HUGE populations, giving them a much broader talent range, while European nations make due with tiny ranges of people.
Otherwise we would expect to see Mexico in particular doing a lot better than they previously have. China too. Moreover, Argentina is in fact smaller in terms of population than any of the European nations who have won the title (all of whom have populations in excess of 60 million at present), and most other South American states compare poorly to European ones in terms of population; there are many more people in Europe (as defined by UEFA) than in South America, and more than half the South Americans are in Brazil. In any case, it's not just about the talent range; it's about identifying and developing that talent. For geopolitical reasons, the training facillities are a lot better in much of Europe than they are in much of the rest of the world- but this is changing.


When you speak of "South America", which sides exactly besides Brazil and Argentina do you mean? Uruguay, whose last appearance in the semifinals was about as recent as 40 years ago?
Which is still more recently than England won the title.


Guess what, only one was South American, and none of the other teams from the continent even managed to get past the group phase. Doesn't look too dominant from where I'm standing.
That's not my point, though. Europe largely fell flat at the 2002 Cup; that an Asian team (or two, depending on your perspective) made it to the semi-final reinforces my main point- that teams from other federations are starting to challenge the established football powers.


That's what you call nostalgia, things always look a lot better from a decade away.
Well, if you want to believe that the current French lineup has a patch on that of ten years ago, that's up to you. But I do think there's more than nostalgia to it. The French push to the final in 2006 was powered by golden oldies; the young French "stars" like Ribery and Benzema have proved a disappointment on the world stage, and with Zidane and co's retirement, France have gone into freefall. Likewise Portugal, although the decline there has been more gradual.


That is ridiculous. Germany is absolutely packed with great, talented players at the moment, Bayern Munich managed to reach the Champions League final with no less than four players coming from their own youth squad in their starting line-up, that U21 European Cup win was no random occurence either. Add to that the fact that we have players like Lukas Podolski and Bastian Schweinsteiger, who may seem like old regulars because of their 70+ international starts, but actually, they are only 24 and 25 years old.
Although they still played in 2006, which was my point.


I've said myself it doesn't have to be like that this time, and I'm really eager to see whether any of the African sides manage to make something happen. But that doesn't change history.
Well, in that case I'm not sure what we're arguing about. The history discussion is largely a semantic one, because there are always going to be statistics and trivia that we can throw around to make our points. I do think that the professed European superiority at the World Cup is partly chimerical, but if you believe otherwise then you're entitled to do so. Moreover, the history is only relevant insofar as it affects the mindset of the players taking the stage now. I think- and hope- that some of the "minor" South American and African teams will make a big impact this year.

[dehro]

Moreover, the history is only relevant insofar as it affects the mindset of the players taking the stage now.

not entering in the whole historical statistics debate...but about this...
you'd be surprised at how nervous italy as a team and as supporters get when the team is facing south-korea, off all teams... and how important matches, at any level, against germany are for the dutch.
history does affect things like these.

[Mauther]

I think a big factor this year is going to be the weather. We're looking at temps in the 60 degree range. That's perfect weather for the Europeans, especially some of the doddering old geezers in Italy. Traditionally, the hot summer weather has been considered to favor the South Americans who are generally considered more athletic (I know there's a large degree of stereotyping going on here). I guess this year we can put that old theory to the test.

As for the opening match, Mexico should beat South Africa pretty handily. Both play open aggressive styles, but Mexico's got more and better options. South Africa is not really that good, I think they are the lowest ranked team in the tournament besides North Korea (best game to watch: Brazil vs North Korea, a complete Turkey shoot as Brazil and Portugal rack up goal differential against a team ranked 105 by FIFA). South Africa is pretty much doomed... unless Pienaar just goes crazy in that game. Should be a good game to watch, very entertaining.

[Aedilred]

The altitude could prove interesting, too. We've already seen Argentina implode at altitude during qualifying (after Maradona said it didn't matter, for bonus lolz) and apparently the ball behaves very differently at sea level and up high, which could prove a nightmare for the goalkeepers. I wouldn't be surprised if teams with routine altitude experience (as opposed to those who've undergone acclimatisation training in the last few weeks beforehand, ie most of them) do a bit better than one might expect. It could also provide a much-needed home advantage to South Africa, albeit they have a tough group even taking that into account.

[dehro]

last time around there were complaints about the ball itself too, weren't there?

[skywalker]

as much as I like the USA and their people...you lot ARE funny, that way..

I always giggle when I read about the world series.
world?
seriously... a sport that is played in..a handfull of countries..and it's not even a tournament involving those countries..it's just the usual american teams amongst each other..
that must be worth a few lols

Well, look at it this way:

In the sports where we deem the champion "World Champion," it's pretty much universally agreed that the US league is the best league in the world. All the best players (especially lately, with ease of travel) come here to play. We're the only people who even play American Football, so of course those guys are world champions. It seems decent to me, since the leagues are verifiably the best teams in the world in that sport.


Ah, you see, you're approaching this from the wrong perspective. Watching cricket should be a slow, cathartic experience; allow the strange talk of "square legs" and "LBW" wash over you, having faith that it'll either make sense eventually or really doesn't matter, chill out with a beer/cup of tea and some mates, and let go of all your daily cares.

I agree. I don't understand half the terminology they use, I just pay attention to the bowler and the batter and worry about whether or not someone catches the ball when it gets hit. Runs scored, even, does not always make sense to me.

The only really weird thing about cricket to me is that you can (and in many cases should) close an innings before you're all out, because unlike most other sporting events (that last as long as necessary), cricket is in some ways a race to get all of the game done within a specific amount of time.

[dehro]

Well, look at it this way:

In the sports where we deem the champion "World Champion," it's pretty much universally agreed that the US league is the best league in the world. All the best players (especially lately, with ease of travel) come here to play. We're the only people who even play American Football, so of course those guys are world champions. It seems decent to me, since the leagues are verifiably the best teams in the world in that sport.

my point is that if you're the only one to play a game/sport...calling yourself the world champion is right..but a bit silly.
and when you are not..because baseball is played in cuba, japan and other countries alike (my brother used to play, and that's in italy)... then you should at least substantiate the claim by actually setting up a tournament where you can prove it
don't get me wrong, I'm convinced you're right when you say american teams are the strongest in the world, when it comes to baseball...I don't dispute that. I just giggle when I see the name world series..applied for what is, in fact, the USA championship playoff.
it says a lot about americans and a certain ammount of "USA-centered view of the world"
(and I don't mean this in a diminishing way at all..purely in a "social commentary/observation" way)

[Aedilred]

Yeah, last time round the goalkeepers complained about the ball (I think Cech was particularly vocal, as was van der Saar) because it was slightly lighter and was designed to produce more movement in the air, which in turn made it more unpredictable and difficult to save. How many of these consequences were intentional, I'm not sure, but it didn't really work all that well if the idea was to produce more goals, as the 2006 Cup was the lowest-scoring finals since the competition was expanded. This time I think the 'keepers have mostly got used to the ball itself. It's just that it'll now be doing something different again.

[Delta]

Which is still more recently than England won the title.

Wow, now we're down to discussing whether winning the title 44 years ago or appearing in the final 40 years ago is a stronger sign of continental dominance? Or what point are you trying to make?


That's not my point, though. Europe largely fell flat at the 2002 Cup; that an Asian team (or two, depending on your perspective) made it to the semi-final reinforces my main point- that teams from other federations are starting to challenge the established football powers.

I beg to differ. Europe did not fall flat. And football-wise, Turkey is a very european side, football in Turkey is much closer to "typical" european football culturally than to that of South Korea, which should really be obvious, but nonetheless.

And considering the way South Korea got as far as they came, I don't think that was a sign of any kind of "dominance" but rather of poor refereeing and home field advantage combined.



Although they still played in 2006, which was my point.

Wow, okay, if you're gonna ignore two thirds of what I say to pick out whatever fits your view out of context, I guess I'll have to do the same from now on.

You take out those two names I posted, ignored the EIGHT names of new players on the squad I added (and those aren't all, I didn't even include Neuer (probably the new starting gk) Beck, Aogo and Tasci, all young newcomers on the squad as well) to make your point that there is no young talent in Germany.

In the current extended squad, there's a whole 10 out of 25 players who have played in the last European Cup.

[Haruki-kun]

Haven't read all the thread (I am lazy SUE me)

But anyone wants to guess how it will go the inauguration math (Mexico vs South Africa)

My guess is Mexico but since we have'nt been playing well...

I've pretty much lost all faith already. v.v

And South Africa, from what I've heard, has a pretty decent team. We might not make it past the first round this time.

I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway.

[paddyfool]

On which is more dominant out of S America and Europe: I don't much care, but if you look at the world rankings, S America have slots 1 and 7, whereas Europe has the other 8 of the top 10. So Brazil is the most dominant both on current form and history (as previously remarked) and remain the one to beat etc., but after Brazil, it's Europe. So it really all depends what you're measuring.

On baseball: Yes, the "world series" is a silly name, but who cares?

[comicshorse]

dammit England couldn't you wait a bit before disapointing my expectations :smallfrown:

[Kobold-Bard]

dammit England couldn't you wait a bit before disapointing my expectations :smallfrown:

No, no they couldn't.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Honestly, I just hope France keeps on winning by bull**** alone.

[Haruki-kun]

*cheers and makes lots of noise*

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/Haruki-san/WorldCupRukilarge.png

Ready for the World Cup!

[Delta]

And we've got the next man out injured for Germany... this is getting ridiculous :smallannoyed:

[Aedilred]

It's good to see England living up to expectations, too. Final score: England 2-1 Japan. England failed to score a goal all match, which included missing a penalty.

Produce that sort of performance at the finals and even Slovenia will be all over us :smallmad:

[comicshorse]

Posted by Aedilred

It's good to see England living up to expectations, too. Final score: England 2-1 Japan. England failed to score a goal all match, which included missing a penalty.

Produce that sort of performance at the finals and even Slovenia will be all over us

It was the experimental game where we messed around a bit with players and idea's
And it does show we have a lucky manager :smalleek:

[Aedilred]

Oh, sure, I'm prepared to cut England some slack during the friendlies, and I know we (probably) won't be that bad at the finals, but still, there's a limit...

Still, they (whoever they are) say the measure of a quality side is that they're still able to win while playing badly, and for England that's two poor performances, and two wins, on the trot, so it's looking good. (?!)

[Mauther]

England's result really disappointed me. I wanted Engand to continue its dominance so it could enter the World Cup over confident. As a US fan, I frankly don't want to face a settled, sober three lions. A bunch of over confident over-paid frat boys, an d the US could have sneaked out a win, don't see that happening. Is nice to see that the English defense/goalie combo is living down to expectations though. That's something. Any chance Capello will rest King in the opener so Dempsey and Gomez can take a run through the Terry/Ferdinand expresslane?

[dehro]

kinda worried for the dutch team here... they have a habit of coming into competitions strong, leading their groups and whatnot. they get shortlisted as favourites, but then flounder under pressure when the real game begins and barely make it through the round of 16 if at all
I'd like things to go a bit differently this time around

[Gaelbert]

Didier Drogba, Rio Ferdinand, and Andrea Pirlo all were injured today and won't be playing in the World Cup.
The Drogba injury really upsets me. I was pulling for the Ivory Coast, and now they lose him? Their matches won't be nearly as exciting anymore, and I doubt they'll make it out of Group G, if they ever had the chance.

[Klose_the_Sith]

New World Cup eh? I know the drill.

*Clears throat*

"AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE! OI OI OI! AUSSIE! OI! AUSSIE! OI! AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE! OI OI OI!"

*Crushes empty can of beer against forehead, drains full one in one gulp, then passes out in a corner*

Just doin' my patriotic duty.

[ForzaFiori]

I think the people writing sports illustrated have gone crazy. They released their "expected" WC brackets and stuff, and some of the matches and winners seem just crazy.

[Superglucose]

Chiming in with support for USA. Sure, we're not particularly good, but we're good enough to kick your butt if you don't take us seriously. Now if only it were reasonably easy to follow this sport in this country...

(Besides, I always cheer for the local team... right?)I was pulling for the Avalanche to beat the Sharks, so no.

[dehro]

Pirlo might be able to make it for the next stage (assuming italy gets there)..if he recovers in time.

here's hoping..he really is important for team cohesion and strategy

[Hazyshade]

Being born and raised in England, England are naturally the team I'd like to see win it.


Being born and raised in England, England are naturally the team I'd like to see fail hilariously. :smallsmile: My wild guess is that they'll go out in the second round to Germany.

Since I have no TV and so won't be impressed by any of the fancy-pants football played by the bigger teams, I'll be supporting the lower-ranked team in every match.

[Mauther]

Being born and raised in England, England are naturally the team I'd like to see fail hilariously. :smallsmile: My wild guess is that they'll go out in the second round to Germany.

Since I have no TV and so won't be impressed by any of the fancy-pants football played by the bigger teams, I'll be supporting the lower-ranked team in every match.

Relax, The US will prove what a friend it is to England by taking the German bullet for you. 1st place in the US/England group places 2nd place in Germany's group (which will be anyone but Germany). Assuming everything goes as expected Germany (D1) will play US (C2) and England (C1) will play probably Serbia (D2). Winner of that faces the winner of Group A most likely, probably those dirty cheating handballing Frenchies, maybe Mexico if there's any justice. So Assuming Rooney survives the card happy brazilian they assigned to US v Eng, you guys should be good to go up until the Semifinals when you'll have to face either Netherlands/Brazil/Portugal. Not a bad road. On the otherhand, assuming the US manages to beat Germany (hahahahahahah!) our reward is to face Argentina, I mean FC Messi. We're screwed. Our only hope is to have one of our spare defenders (hey, that's why we brought Goodson!) attack Messi with a bat in the first 30 seconds.

[comicshorse]

Posted by Mauther

So Assuming Rooney survives the card happy brazilian they assigned to US v Eng,

Cause Rooney is famous for his ability to hold his temper and not mouth off at the Ref

[dehro]

Being born and raised in England, England are naturally the team I'd like to see fail hilariously. :smallsmile:

it's funny.. I was debating this with british friends.
In most countries I know of, people are watching shows on television that celebrate the football stars of past and present, and the past glories, however small, of their national team. there is a lot of anticipation and expectations from everybody for the teams to do well.
here in england however, most shows that are on the television and most of the debates are self mocking and defeatist, however proud.
I love how the english are better than most at laughing at themselves (which is a good thing).. but it seems to me that on this occasion they're kinda taking it to an extreme, lol
shows with themes like "worst possible lineup we could field" "our worst moments in the world cup" "how we f****-up our chances for glory"... they're all funny to watch. a bit like a bloopers show..but, slightly depressing too, I suppose. well, if you're english, that is.

[comicshorse]

We're just immunizing ourselves against hope so when England crashes out it will be less emotionally devastating.
And while the programmes may be more realistic, the adverts are almost painfully jingoistic. Watching them inbetween England's performance of Japan was a special kind of hell I'd previously not experienced

[Kobold-Bard]

If we didn't laugh we'd cry. Year after year we build ourselves up, year after year we have a relatively decent team. Year after year we fail spectacularly.

Except for that one win we are basically a nation with a terrible footballing history, if we didn't make fun of it we'd just sink into a spiral of endless misery, and we couldn't get all hyper and unrealistically excited the
next time.

[Mauther]

You'd probably appreciate the USA adverts then. Last World Cup they were all "WE ARE HERE AND WERE GOING TO WIN USAUSAUSA!!!!", now there all "We worked really hard to get here and gosh isn't really just an honor to be allowed to play!" Personally, I could use a little more jingoism.

[Haruki-kun]

You'd probably appreciate the USA adverts then. Last World Cup they were all "WE ARE HERE AND WERE GOING TO WIN USAUSAUSA!!!!", now there all "We worked really hard to get here and gosh isn't really just an honor to be allowed to play!" Personally, I could use a little more jingoism.

Well... the USA isn't really into it, so.... *shrug* yeah.

[Nomrom]

US is infuriating for a lot of country :smallbiggrin:

They don't even like football, but they always got a spot in the World Cup. On the other side, there are a lot of countries where football is their religion or something, but never got a chance to play in the world cup.

I'm not sure what you mean. We LOVE football. Now soccer on the other hand...

Anyways, not really a big soccer fan, but I'll watch the US play since me roommate likes soccer a lot. Once they're out though, I'll probably forget it's even happening.

[Copacetic]

I'm excited for the World Cup. Being a citizen of South Africa I will be proudly rooting for them, but being a citizen of South Africa I know they will be stomped in the first match. After that it's a toss up between Spain and Italy.

[Delta]

I'm not sure what you mean. We LOVE football. Now soccer on the other hand...

Well you americans will have to live with the fact that the rest of the world, when confronted with the word "football", will think of a sport were you actually use, you know, your FOOT on the BALL, strange people that they are :P

They even made a picture for you (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9GHoR-RJLy8/SWeV_hcZpXI/AAAAAAAAKb0/vfq_zqm2Fks/s400/handegg_bits.jpg)

For clarification: I absolutely LOVE American Football, so if I'm joking about it, it's only that, a joke :smallwink:

[Klose_the_Sith]

Well you americans will have to live with the fact that the rest of the world, when confronted with the word "football", will think of a sport were you actually use, you know, your FOOT on the BALL, strange people that they are :P

They even made a picture for you (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9GHoR-RJLy8/SWeV_hcZpXI/AAAAAAAAKb0/vfq_zqm2Fks/s400/handegg_bits.jpg)

For clarification: I absolutely LOVE American Football, so if I'm joking about it, it's only that, a joke :smallwink:

Not Australia, we call it soccer cause we play Australian Rules Football as our main code. Just like everything else in Australia, it's also a lot more hardcore than what you lot play back home.

[Nomrom]

They even made a picture for you (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9GHoR-RJLy8/SWeV_hcZpXI/AAAAAAAAKb0/vfq_zqm2Fks/s400/handegg_bits.jpg)

For clarification: I absolutely LOVE American Football, so if I'm joking about it, it's only that, a joke :smallwink:

No worries dude, I'm only joking around too. Also, that picture is hilarious. It makes me want to call it handegg now.

[Kobold-Bard]

No worries dude, I'm only joking around too. Also, that picture is hilarious. It makes me want to call it handegg now.


Not Australia, we call it soccer cause we play Australian Rules Football as our main code. Just like everything else in Australia, it's also a lot more hardcore than what you lot play back home.

Damned colonists with your crazy sports that you were too lazy to name :smallwink: (I jest of course, I'm far to uninterested in sport in general to make statements like that seriously)

I've never watched American, but I have watched Aussie and it was fun. A guy fractured something and kept playing.

--------
it's almost here: where will you be watching the opening matches?

[Delta]

it's almost here: where will you be watching the opening matches?

I'll the on my way home from work for the first half of the opening match tomorrow, so radio will have to suffice for that. The other games, I'll watch at home on TV.

And on sunday, for the first german game, I'll probably go watch it with my sister in a sports bar or something like that.

[ForzaFiori]

Probably watch all the matches I manage to from the sofa in my living room. Though I'll probably have to watch them tivo'd, since my mom isn't big on soccer and probably will tell me to change the channel to "something interesting".

The final match WILL be watched live though.

[comicshorse]

A combination of the local pub and my own sofa but for the first England match I'll be in York at my mate's house for a grand England watching gathering

[Mauther]

I'm DVR mmost of the games and being very selective wht websites I go to inbetween. Pretty much a media blackout for me.

[skywalker]

Not Australia, we call it soccer cause we play Australian Rules Football as our main code. Just like everything else in Australia, it's also a lot more hardcore than what you lot play back home.

This game also has far less touching of the ball with the foot than would be expected for something called "football."


it's almost here: where will you be watching the opening matches?

I'll be in class for tomorrow's matches, probably will try to find some other patriots to watch the England match on Saturday. The "Irish Pub" always shows matches, my question is, who will the Pub be rooting for? It's the same type of "Irish Pub" you get in England, but not necessarily with the understanding that Irish people and English people are not the same.

[Klose_the_Sith]

This game also has far less touching of the ball with the foot than would be expected for something called "football."

...

You don't follow the game much, do you?

Because the emphasis is very heavily on kicking. Even in the new handball-heavy game, if you kick poorly then you've lost. Fact.

[dehro]

right...I'm hating the vuvuzelas already.
as much as I'd like bafana bafana to win this game, I gotta thank the mexican side for scoring, giving us a 30 seconds reprieve from the wretched things

[Satyr]

My five year old cousin always calls them 'Uwe Seelers' and is solidly convinved that these annoying horns are directly related.

[SMEE]

And the madness began. :smallcool:

[Zar Peter]

Unbelievable... I hope this was the worst match in the whole World Cup (Uruguay - France). And I hope both teams don't survive this group.

[Copacetic]

right...I'm hating the vuvuzelas already.
as much as I'd like bafana bafana to win this game, I gotta thank the mexican side for scoring, giving us a 30 seconds reprieve from the wretched things

I'm beginning to actually relish the sound. A friend of the family in South Africa has gotten me and my brother one, so it'll be arriving soon. Needless to say my family won't enjoy a moment of peace for a month

EDIT:^Yes.

[Aedilred]

Well, France were about as terrible as I'd anticipated. I was disappointed in Uruguay, though- I felt they made a go of the game (and Forlan was by far the best forward player on the pitch) but they were sloppy with the passing, and too defensively-minded, so their breaks were ineffective. They're going to have to up their game if they're going to be the contenders I thought they would.

Mexico looked like Spain-lite, again, and yet failed to convert their possession and superior technical ability into goals, again. For much of the first half they were almost literally running rings around South Africa, but they weren't getting enough balls into the box and their finishing was atrocious when they did. I can see them actually being the best team in the group and yet failing to qualify.

South Africa weren't particularly good value for money for the first half, but were pretty entertaining when they got going in the second. I gather the target they're gunning for- understandably- is really France, though, and on today's showing from both sides the French aren't going to have a clue what's hit them.

I have to wonder what part the balls are playing in this. There were several shots from both sides in the later game that were shanked wide or high of the goal, from players of such a calibre you'd expect them to be buried, or at least be on target. The Mexicans also seemed pretty frustrated that the ball wasn't going where they wanted, although that might have been just down to their own poor finishing. Are the balls really as unpredictable as the players were claiming before the tournament? If so, we could see a dearth of goals no matter how much attacking football gets played- we should have had many more goals than we did today. It's a bit early to tell but we should have a better idea tomorrow after Messi, Tevez and Rooney have had a go.

[Zar Peter]

Yes, thought the same. Jabulani might not be good for Keepers but it might be even worse for shooter. Not what the inventors intended.

Another thing: The Uruguayis (what's the plural? or the singular if there is any... Coplantor?) were slipping very often. Bad shoes? Or just bad timing?

Anyway, Forlan was a great Forward but there was no support from the midfield at all.
And in the whole game I never had the feeling that France will shoot a goal. Sad performance.

And although I was very happy that with Cuauthemoc Blanco there was a player who's older than I I think the Mexican team looked a bit old in the second half.

[Fostire]

Another thing: The Uruguayis (what's the plural? or the singular if there is any... Coplantor?) were slipping very often. Bad shoes? Or just bad timing?
I think Uruguayan/Uruguayans is correct.
Also a couple of French players slipped a bit too at first so I think it was an issue with the field.

[Haruki-kun]

Unbelievable... I hope this was the worst match in the whole World Cup (Uruguay - France). And I hope both teams don't survive this group.

So do I!

....but for different reasons. :smalltongue:

[Dallas-Dakota]

Not a big soccer fan, and we don't have our keeper.:smallfrown:

So yeah, we'l prolly make it to the top 8. And then fall out somewhere.

[skywalker]

...

You don't follow the game much, do you?

Because the emphasis is very heavily on kicking. Even in the new handball-heavy game, if you kick poorly then you've lost. Fact.

Not a ton, no. I never said that there is not footing-of-the-ball, tho. Just that there's a lot more touching of the ball with the hands than you might expect...


right...I'm hating the vuvuzelas already.
as much as I'd like bafana bafana to win this game, I gotta thank the mexican side for scoring, giving us a 30 seconds reprieve from the wretched things

Turned on the later game while hanging out with my non-sporting friend, his comment "What the hell is that sound?!" "Oh, that's just the crowd, my friend." "The crowd?! It sounds like a jet airplane taking off inside a helicopter engine!"


Well, France were about as terrible as I'd anticipated. I was disappointed in Uruguay, though- I felt they made a go of the game (and Forlan was by far the best forward player on the pitch) but they were sloppy with the passing, and too defensively-minded, so their breaks were ineffective. They're going to have to up their game if they're going to be the contenders I thought they would.

Also the red card was terrible. The whining that led to that was a good example of why Americans don't like soccer.


Mexico looked like Spain-lite, again, and yet failed to convert their possession and superior technical ability into goals, again. For much of the first half they were almost literally running rings around South Africa, but they weren't getting enough balls into the box and their finishing was atrocious when they did. I can see them actually being the best team in the group and yet failing to qualify.

This is really good insight.


South Africa weren't particularly good value for money for the first half, but were pretty entertaining when they got going in the second. I gather the target they're gunning for- understandably- is really France, though, and on today's showing from both sides the French aren't going to have a clue what's hit them.

I don't know who's going to win that game. I'm not ready to pick SA yet, but Group A looks fairly weak indeed.


I have to wonder what part the balls are playing in this. There were several shots from both sides in the later game that were shanked wide or high of the goal, from players of such a calibre you'd expect them to be buried, or at least be on target.

It's the world stage. I don't care where/when you've played, it's a completely different level.


Another thing: The Uruguayis (what's the plural? or the singular if there is any... Coplantor?) were slipping very often.

Uruguayan in English. "Uruguayo" is how I was taught in Espanol. Pronounced "Oo-roo-gwash-oh."

[Superglucose]

Well you americans will have to live with the fact that the rest of the world, when confronted with the word "football", will think of a sport were you actually use, you know, your FOOT on the BALL, strange people that they are :P

They even made a picture for you (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9GHoR-RJLy8/SWeV_hcZpXI/AAAAAAAAKb0/vfq_zqm2Fks/s400/handegg_bits.jpg)

Americans hate your football because your "tackling" is really code for "sliding on the grass feet first like you're in a slip 'n' slide fearing for your life" while we believe that tackling is bone-crunching hits that can cause serious injuries even while wearing safety equipment. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPObnPS-LIs)



For clarification: I absolutely LOVE American Football, so if I'm joking about it, it's only that, a joke :smallwink:
I like soccer and love football :smallbiggrin: Naming conventions don't matter to me, they could be called whatever and still be awesome. So I'm in the same boat!

[ForzaFiori]

Also the red card was terrible. The whining that led to that was a good example of why Americans don't like soccer.


I'm not positive, but I think he was sent off for two yellows (both for very obviously and poorly executed tackles, neither of which hit the ball), not for the whining.

The french player who pulled a yellow, nearly got into a fight, and then started trash talking and even back talking the ref, however, should probably have gotten a red, just to teach people like that a lesson. I have no problem with a few bad tackles. Heck, I'll even pull them myself if the player I'm hitting is really good. But when you get caught, deal with it. You know you made a mistake, don't go around acting like the refs cheated you, and most of all, NEVER tell a ref they're wrong. That is your coach's job.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Not a particularly great start to the World Cup. Hopefully the upcoming matches will at least carry a modicum of interest with them.


Not a ton, no. I never said that there is not footing-of-the-ball, tho. Just that there's a lot more touching of the ball with the hands than you might expect...

Expect based off of what? Football just indicates a game with the foot at it's centre. AFL relies extremely heavily on kicking and (even more importantly, at times) running and jumping.

Just cause there's a lot of hand-passing as well doesn't mean anything.

Although really, this is the king of pointless disputes.

If you were raised calling soccer football, then you'll expect football to be almost pure kicking.

If you raised with either rugby, gridiron or AFL (the only true football :smalltongue:) then you'll probably take a more moderated approach.

And yes, there are exceptions. Plenty of 'em too. In the end, however, it's how you were raised that'll define your expectations of football.

Having been raised to be tr00 kvlt hardcore, I view AFL as football :smallwink:

[J.Gellert]

Anyway, what is France's coach thinking? Malouda should be playing the whole time... And throw Cisse in too.

The red card was justified. He could have given a straight red for that (dangerous) tackle, not even a second yellow.

[Kobold-Bard]

The reason English people (read: I) get so irritated about the football/soccer thing is because we have football & rugby, American Football is obviously more like rugby, so why call it football and invent the whole new name soccer?

But I do so love complaining about stuff that doesn't matter :smallwink:

----------
I've been evicted from my house tonight because I'm visiting my family and my stepdad is Scottish and massively anti-English.

[Aedilred]

Soccer was in fact originally an English (ie British) word coined to differentiate Association Football from the various other forms then knocking around, of which Rugby Football is the only one that survives here in any meaningful form. As AF became the dominant form of the game in the UK- and across much of the world- it was known generally simply as "football" with no distinction drawn. In the States (and also Australia, to a lesser extent), they already had a dominant code, so call it "soccer" to avoid confusion.

Even in the UK, in social circles- particularly public and private schools- where rugby is the preferred code of football, AF is known as soccer.

[Yora]

Can anyone recommend a good english language site where you can watch the game online?

[dehro]

Can anyone recommend a good english language site where you can watch the game online?

ITV and BBC show the matches online..but I'm not sure you can see them outside of the british islands.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

Even in the UK, in social circles- particularly public and private schools- where rugby is the preferred code of football, AF is known as soccer.

I know that to be untrue, from experience. Though I hardly went anywhere like Eton or Harrow, so it may be true there.

[Aedilred]

I think it's an individual thing, since rugby is called rugby universally, and thus the distinction is, strictly, unnecessary. Still, many people I've known make it, and at my school the sporting staff referred to football almost exclusively as soccer.

Eton, incidentally, has its own versions of football (two of them), the Field Game (which resembles soccer) and the Wall Game, which is like a demented version of rugby. I think Harrow has its own football code too, but I don't know much about it.

[SaintRidley]

Well, Nigeria's offence isn't doing so hot against Argentina's defence, but their keeper's doing his job. Great header from Heinze, though.

[toasty]

Well, Nigeria's offence isn't doing so hot against Argentina's defence, but their keeper's doing his job. Great header from Heinze, though.

Nigeria didn't seem to play that great if you ask me. They had some good chances, but they messed up. The ROK v Greece game was good fun.

I wish the England v USA game wasn't so late, because I really want to see my team (US) pwn our fellow english speakers.

And come on, everyone else calls it football, why do the Americans have to make up some special name for it?\:smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

No, I agree. Nigeria was terrible. Their keeper, though, was the only reason (beside screwups on the Argentine side) that the score was only 1-0.

England and the U.S. are about to go. I'm curious how America will do. I was pleasantly surprised to see my country do as well as they did against Italy back in the '06 Cup's group stage, but I do sort of want England to take the match too.

I especially look forward to seeing Germany. I have a huge man-crush on Miroslav Klose. I'm also intrigued by the hype surrounding Spain, and I hope they do very well.

[skywalker]

Although really, this is the king of pointless disputes.

Yes. Technically (and more generally) it's all football. It's a question of what your dominant code is. But they all develop from the same ancestor.


The red card was justified. He could have given a straight red for that (dangerous) tackle, not even a second yellow.

That's my point. Americans play Football, Hockey, etc, and even basketball is a sport where an equivalent to that play would be called "a good, clean hard foul."

[J.Gellert]

That's my point. Americans play Football, Hockey, etc, and even basketball is a sport where an equivalent to that play would be called "a good, clean hard foul."

I know these sports are "tougher" in comparison. Still, there is the "that'll leave a mark" hard tackle where you get bruised, and the kind of hit that gives you a good leg ligament injury and ruins your career (and possibly life).

[Amiria]

In the last four matches I knew whom to cheer for (South Africa, Uruguay, South Korea, Nigeria) ... but in the current match I am undecided. I enjoyed the opening match most => some goals and both teams played first-rate, entertaining football.

I talked with a friend about the wuwuzelas and we think that they sound like a swarm of bees. I don't mind their sound much, but I guess it would be different if I had to hear that din live for 2 hours.

[Xyk]

The game may not be going too well yet, but USA is a second half team as far as I know. I have confidence. Not confidense.

USA

Edit: That goal was awesome.

[Superglucose]

Lol rofl. I can't say much other than that.

[SaintRidley]

Nearly as bad as Italy back in '06.

Wait. Does this mean England's going to win the tournament?

[J.Gellert]

Lol rofl. I can't say much other than that.

Roflmao! :smallbiggrin: It was epic!

[Yora]

USA
Amazing, I really didn't expect that.

Remember this, it's one of the very few occasions we cheer for you. :smallbiggrin:

[Superglucose]

Well at least the US has better COVERAGE than the UK >.>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv3GoUlHu18

[Altaria87]

That 'goal' was a very large piece of pure LMAO.
Well, it shows how bad America are at ACTUAL Football, that England have to score for them :smalltongue:.

[The_JJ]

That was a good time. Each team had a good show on offence, did well on defense. Let's see if we can't get a good upset out of this.

[ForzaFiori]

That was good, though the refs let some really blatent stuff go (then again, when does that not happen?) Glad that the US tied though. It seemed to me like the English defense thought that they would just roll right over the US, and was completely unprepared for when we actually started attacking.

And the goal? Any keeper who tries to block a shot like that DESERVES to be scored on. That was worse form than on my HIGH SCHOOL team.

[Zar Peter]

Looking at the group it could well be that England AND USA will get to the next round... if England has a Goalie in the next two matches :smalltongue:

And... GO AUSTRALIA! YOU CAN MAKE IT!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Gaelbert]

And the goal? Any keeper who tries to block a shot like that DESERVES to be scored on. That was worse form than on my HIGH SCHOOL team.

After I saw that I turned to my dad and said the exact same thing. My high school goalie could block that, and he wasn't exactly a top flight goalie at high school level either.

[Raistlin1040]

My dad also said that I could block it, and I'm a highschool age goalie. I was actually rooting for England but after that...ugh. That is just awful technique.

[skywalker]

That was good, though the refs let some really blatent stuff go (then again, when does that not happen?) Glad that the US tied though. It seemed to me like the English defense thought that they would just roll right over the US, and was completely unprepared for when we actually started attacking.

They knew it was coming and couldn't do anything about it. England has the better players, but USA was so much more athletic. English defense could not stay with Altidore and Findley. Carragher especially was allowed to get away with behavior towards Altidore that we've seen draw a card in other matches, as well as several questionable no-calls. IMO, Altidore needed to take it at him even more, Carragher was obviously outclassed.

In fact, I think on the whole, USA was more athletic than England. That's a pretty typical difference between New World and Old World teams, I just think that's one of the things that helped US in this match.

That, and a terrible, terrible moment for Green. Wow.

[--Lime--]

Both teams failed at defending. Led to a mistake-led match, and worse, a draw. Couldn't have been more of a disappointment, considering how much I had been looking forward to it.

[Aedilred]

England were looking good until the goal went in, and then they reverted to type- not even Capello's half-time talk could save them. Shape and direction disappeared, Lampard and Gerrard forgot who each other were, our centre-backs were left exposed (and with their lack of pace that's a dangerous game to play) as both central midfielders- and Glen Johnson- went ball-chasing. And in the absence of Beckham our delivery from set pieces is really nothing to write home about. Against Germany, or Argentina, or Spain or Brazil, or Holland, we can't afford to play like that.

Credit to the USA, they played a good match. Despite one-eyed ITV punditry, I think it was an evenly matched game even if England had the better chances.

I was encouraged to see the referee taking an interest in the time-wasting issue, actively hurrying a player off the pitch when he was dawdling in being subsituted. I thought he was good; in fact I've been impressed by the general standard of refereeing so far in these finals.

[--Lime--]

I second that. Some very good close calls which more than make up for the one mistaken offside.

I was glad to see the cards come out for knees and ankles and not much else.

Towards the end the USA were clearly slowing things down, taking their time over goal kicks. They were clearly playing for the draw. Again, I don't really care who wins as long as I see some heart in it. Heart and team work. There was far too little of that.

[Xyk]

Amazing, I really didn't expect that.

Remember this, it's one of the very few occasions we cheer for you. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks, man, we'll see how you do tomorrow against Australia. :smallbiggrin:

[Amiria]

And... GO AUSTRALIA! YOU CAN MAKE IT!!! :smallbiggrin:

In your dreams, my little star-spangled fellow arcanist. :smallamused:

[Darklord Xavez]

GO GERMANY! AND USA!
-Xavez

[Dacia Brabant]

That wasn't exactly the most enjoyable match to watch, but I think every USA fan has to be pleased that we came out of that with a draw, which has to be credited to Howard as much as Dempsey (and Green :smalltongue: ), he did an excellent job in goal especially considering he got shaken up pretty badly early on.

[Darklord Xavez]

That wasn't exactly the most enjoyable match to watch, but I think every USA fan has to be pleased that we came out of that with a draw, which has to be credited to Howard as much as Dempsey (and Green :smalltongue: ), he did an excellent job in goal especially considering he got shaken up pretty badly early on.

Yeah, over here in civilized lands we aren't very good at such barbaric sports such as soccer...
-Xavez

[comicshorse]

Posted by Aedilred

England were looking good until the goal went in, and then they reverted to type-

Sadly all too true. When are we going to learn you can't just defend for an hour and expect to keep out the goals.
Points to america for a commited and enthusiastic performance.

Good points for England ; Rooney kept his cool despite USA blocking him at every opportunity, Gerard and Lenon were both good.

Bad points: Carragher clearly seems to old and just doesn't have the pace anymore. Hesky seemed to do nothing but stand in a position to ensure he would be off-side at every opportunity

In General: Must try a lot harder

[Seonor]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqah4-EZDtw) seems oddly appropriate for all the english fans.

[GolemsVoice]

2:0 for Germany! Go, guys, go!

[Amiria]

'schland ! A good start, but I want more goals. In the first minutes the Aussies made some pressure but that abated.

Imo our team needs to much time for our build-up ("Rasenschach") but when we eventually start attacks they are very good.

[SaintRidley]

I have a huge man-crush on Miroslav Klose, and I do look forward to seeing him surpass Ronaldo. I know he can do it this year.

Germany, you keep proving why I love to see you play. Now go out there and dominate.

And to my Anglo tongue, Schweinsteiger is just such a fun name to say. Even without Klose and the rest of the team, just having that name is enough justification for me to root for the Mannschaft.

[Arlion]

Congratulations to Germany for the first big victory.Argentina could have won like that ,we had a lot of goal-chances ,but we made a few silly mistakes,and their goalkeeper was awsome

[SaintRidley]

Indeed. The Nigerian keeper was the only thing keeping Argentina from a higher score.

Looking forward to seeing more of the fruits of Maradona's coaching.

[paddyfool]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqah4-EZDtw) seems oddly appropriate for all the english fans.

A world cup anthem that's actually honest! I love it.

EDIT: Although I would also love it if something truly random happened, like Slovenia beating all comers and coming top of the group. :smallbiggrin:

[Klose_the_Sith]

I have a huge man-crush on Miroslav Klose, and I do look forward to seeing him surpass Ronaldo. I know he can do it this year.

Germany, you keep proving why I love to see you play. Now go out there and dominate.

And to my Anglo tongue, Schweinsteiger is just such a fun name to say. Even without Klose and the rest of the team, just having that name is enough justification for me to root for the Mannschaft.

Strangely enough, I share this man-crush :smallwink:

Woo Germany! Even though I'm going for the Aussies as well they're still the team I actually want to win! :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

I'm hoping to see at least a few of the historical rivalries come together in this tournament:
italy-france
argentina-england
holland-germany
and so on...
(also, a personal "derby" if you like... italy-holland, which for me is always interesting to watch, for domestic reasons, so to speak)

[Tirian]

And to my Anglo tongue, Schweinsteiger is just such a fun name to say. Even without Klose and the rest of the team, just having that name is enough justification for me to root for the Mannschaft.

... That goes without saying (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SClmiso_2Y&NR=1).


That 'goal' was a very large piece of pure LMAO.
Well, it shows how bad America are at ACTUAL Football, that England have to score for them :smalltongue:.

It wouldn't be the first time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9s_Escobar).

[ForzaFiori]

And to my Anglo tongue, Schweinsteiger is just such a fun name to say. Even without Klose and the rest of the team, just having that name is enough justification for me to root for the Mannschaft.

I felt the same way when I heard the South African name Tshabalala. In fact, I like it so much that I named an orc character of mine Uru Tshabalala. (The Uru, btw, is from seeing Uruguay's abbreviation during their match. I thought it sounded like a great name for an Orc.)

[Delta]

Impressive showing by our guys, always great to see :smallsmile: Although I don't think you should put too much importance on that win, seeing as Australia was really out of the game for much of the second half, they still have to prove themselves against a stronger enemy that can put on a fight for a whole 90 minutes, like Serbia probably will on Friday.

Still, great game, great to watch, and if there was ever a game for Löw to prove all his critics wrong, it was this one. For everyone not watching german football too closely, he was harshly criticized for keeping Klose and Podolski on the squad (who have both played miserable seasons with their clubs), last year there was a hailstorm of criticism when he nominated brazil-born Cacau (who only got german citizenship early in 2009, and didn't even think of playing on the national squad back then) to the squad for the first time, with many people accusing him of preferring VfB Stuttgart players.

[dehro]

well...that kinda sucked..
I was hoping to see holland win more on their own merit than on their opponents mistakes and shortcomings.
hup holland, anyway... that's one match in the bag..
now italy :smalltongue:

[Syka]

Although I'm American, and rooting for the Yanks until we inevitably get our bums handed to us (oh, to make it to the semi-finals would be wonderous!), I'm also rooting for Italy. 'Cause, well, I identify with the Italian part of my heritage more than anything else (it is probably because I'm a quarter Italian, more than any other part, and am closer with my mom's (Italian) family than my dad's).

Alas, Boyfriend may veto my watching the match this afternoon. :smallsigh: He's not much in to sports and has been teasing me for sounding like a 'jock' when I talk about the matches, which is actually pretty funny. I'm going to plead, though, 'cause I don't want to miss Italy's first match.



So far I've caught the America-England match (I almost feel bad for Green, but at least we've got a chance...and our keeper was pretty fantastic), and the last half of Germany-Australia. Poor Socceroo's....

Also, Japan is doing surprisingly well against Cameroon right now...

[Dallas-Dakota]

Hah, 2-0 and we weren't even at our best, we're just warming up baby.

And this is without our real keeper, Van der Sar, because he retired.:smallfrown:

Anyway pownage.

If you'd count the 1-cm almost goals, it'd have been 4-0.

The referee was totally not impartial! For some reason a goal by us didn't got counted or something!:smallfurious: Nobody in the crowd I was watching with at college could figure out why.:smallannoyed:

Anyway, still, powange.

Still going bleeding out of my eyes because of all the orange, and going deaf because of the Vuvuzela's(like bulhorns, but worse), on top of everything else.

[Syka]

I hate those vuvuzelas. :smallyuk: I wouldn't mind if it was occasional, but the constant drone is driving me nuts. I feel bad for the people in the crowd....

(As an aside, I find the McD's adverts on the ever-changing advertising around the field to be rather...amusing.)

[Redpieper]

Hah, 2-0 and we weren't even at our best, we're just warming up baby.

And this is without our real keeper, Van der Sar, because he retired.:smallfrown:

Anyway pownage.

If you'd count the 1-cm almost goals, it'd have been 4-0.

The referee was totally not impartial! For some reason a goal by us didn't got counted or something!:smallfurious: Nobody in the crowd I was watching with at college could figure out why.:smallannoyed:

Anyway, still, powange.

Still going bleeding out of my eyes because of all the orange, and going deaf because of the Vuvuzela's(like bulhorns, but worse), on top of everything else.

On account of the goal not counted, the player (van persie?) was off side and got lucky for not getting yellow for that. He blamed the horns for drowning out the whistle sound.

But yeah that match was pretty bad, danish defense was helluva strong and our team lost momentum almost every time.
I feel sorry for that one danish player that made the accidental goal and thank him from the bottom of my heart for making a boring match exciting again. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, patriotism. Hell yeah 2-0! :smallbiggrin:

[paddyfool]

I almost feel bad for Green,

Green's... a bit of a wild card. He's played a storm in the past for West Ham, helping them to unlikely victories by thwarting the best efforts that Man U and Arsenal can throw at him, and going through long strings of matches without conceding a single goal. When he's on form, he's great. When he isn't... well, he really isn't.

[SaintRidley]

I feel bad I won't be able to watch Italy today due to work.

I think 2002 was when I really started paying attention to the World Cup (I was 13), and I latched onto Germany as my favourite. Partly because of Klose. But also because since I've got so much in me (I can trace my ancestry back to 5 countries outside the U.S. in this year's Cup and was born in the U.S.) I found it hard to decide what country I should feel patriotic for. Watching Germany that year more or less settled me on them because I was hugely impressed by their skill (and Klose).

Since then I've been firmly on the German side for the World Cup, although Spain is interesting me this year too. I look forward to seeing how they do this time around.

[dehro]

watching the dutch game gave me a headache..now I'll be forced to watch the italian game with minimal if any sound
somebody nuke the vuvuzela factories please

[Syka]

Boyfriend is letting my watch the Italy match while he plays one of his computer games. The concession is I have to watch on mute. XD

"My God, what is that noise?"

"Oh yeah, the vuvuzelas. (I butchered the pronunciation) I want to destroy them all."



OK, so we've got England letting an easy goal in and the Danes making a goal for the Dutch. I wonder what other fun goal-related mishaps will happen. :smallamused:

[Amiria]

Vuvuzelas are great ! Don't they just sound like the silver trumpets of angels ?!

And yay !, a goal for Paraguay ! Go Paraguay !

[Kobold-Bard]

Vuvuzelas are great. They sound like the silver trumpets of angel's to my ears

D00d u best be trollin!! :smallwink:


And yay !, a goal for Paraguay ! Go Paraguay !

I approve (because the Italians have earned my imaginary wrath).

-----------
My 15 year old brother has a £10 bet with my stepdad that South Korea will win the competition. My stepdad gave him 100/1.

I know its a longshot, but seeing him pay that money would be awesome (as would stealing it from my brother) :smallbiggrin:

[Fay Graydon]

I don't understand why so many people like watching a bunch of guys run around kicking a ball which is what kids do in a park...
Especially when said men earn more in a week then most people earn in their lifetime... :smallconfused:
But hey that's just my 2 pence.

[comicshorse]

Go Paraguay !
I mean what is the World Cup without one huge upset

[Syka]

Go Paraguay !
I mean what is the World Cup without one huge upset

Already had Japan win against Cameroon this morning. :smallwink: That was pretty unexpected, as it's the first World Cup game Japan has won on foreign soil.

As much as I love cheering for an underdog and was happy to see them get a goal, I can't bring myself to root against Italy.

Fay, I watch because I find it interesting. These guys have style; some of the near misses where one guy skids under another are pretty spectacular. What these guys do isn't anywhere near what kids in a park do. It's not just their feet kicking a ball around; just in the last few matches I've seen some pretty awesome goals made with foreheads...and the back of heads.

I don't watch any other sport. Soccer is always moving, though, and there is always something interesting going on. And when you get up to a level where it's countries competing against each other, there is going to be serious talent and interesting plays.

[Fay Graydon]

I tryed to watch Football (uses proper word for the game as her country invented the game).
I fell asleep out of sheer boredom. >.>

[Phaedra]

There is a special place in hell reserved for the person who created vezuvelas. It's the sound of a million mosquitos boring their way into my skull through my ears.

Paraguay are doing really well, the Italian defence is pretty shoddy. I hope they can keep it up, I'm a sucker for an underdog.

Edit: Well, darn it Paraguay. :smallfrown:

[comicshorse]

Paraguay are doing really well, the Italian defence is pretty shoddy. I hope they can keep it up, I'm a sucker for an underdog.

You had to jinx them didn't you

[skywalker]

Hah, 2-0 and we weren't even at our best, we're just warming up baby.

And this is without our real keeper, Van der Sar, because he retired.:smallfrown:

That makes him... Not your real goaltender anymore? Will he still be your real keeper when he's dead?



Especially when said men earn more in a week then most people earn in their lifetime... :smallconfused:

I don't understand how this is supposed to contribute to not wanting to watch.


I approve (because the Italians have earned my imaginary wrath).

My friends have had a semi-joking hatred for Italy ever since they won last time on a "wussy dive" that kept Zinedine Zidane (the only truly manly soccer player ever) out of the penalty shootout. Despite the fact that ordinarily they can't stand the French, they cheer exclusively for the French soccer team for this reason. Truly, their capacity for larrikinism is boundless.

...

I kinda just tune the vuvuzelas out, honestly. Soccer games are already so much noisier than any other sport I watch (with very rare exceptions). It drives my dad nuts, tho.

[Fay Graydon]

I don't understand how this is supposed to contribute to not wanting to watch.

for that salery I'd KILL O.O
Whilst Naked >.>
On TV to the world. *nods*

And All they do is kick a football... how can anyone justify them being payed so much? :smallconfused:

[Kobold-Bard]

for that salery I'd KILL O.O
Whilst Naked >.>
On TV to the world. *nods*

And All they do is kick a football... how can anyone justify them being payed so much? :smallconfused:

Supply and demand. They have the supply of footballing talent and teams are willing to pay it. Why should they take less for doing what they do anyway?

I don't agree with them being paid such stupid amounts, but until FIFA imposes a salery cap, they'll keep paying it.

-------------
Are all the matches on BBC & ITV in England? Or am I going to have to go traipsing around for Sky & ESPN destinations?

[Dallas-Dakota]

That makes him... Not your real goaltender anymore? Will he still be your real keeper when he's dead?
He's been our national keeper since 1994(in world cups and europa cups) till 2010, and the best damn keeper we've ever had.

His spirit lives on in the people and he's widely acknowledged as the best Dutch keeper.

[Aedilred]

Every match is broadcast on either ITV or the BBC in the UK. You can watch them all online too, on the websites for whichever channel is airing the match (but only within the UK, I think).

One note of caution, though- ITV did manage a horrendous cockup on Saturday by screening a car advert, for some reason known only to them, during actual play early in the match on their HD channel. The inevitable consequence, of course, was that anyone watching the match on ITV HD missed England's goal. It didn't affect normal-def TV, though, and given the reaction to that blooper, I doubt they'll let it happen again- but they have proven insensitive to criticism of advert timing before (they've been known to stick ad breaks in over the anthems, for instance).

I confess that I'm slightly disappointed in the Dutch if anything. I was hoping that would be the match that would really set the tournament alight and they'd blow everyone away like they did at the Euros and in qualifying. I mean, it was still a win, and a convincing one, but I wanted shots raining in on goal, van Persie and van Bronckhorst bombing forward every thirty seconds, Sneijder banging in shots from the halfway line- a real show of flying Dutchmen. Yeah, so it's a bit unrealistic, but still, a 2-0 scoreline doesn't really cut it.

Italy were pretty terrible for most of that match; Paraguay were decent but not spectacular. I have to feel a better team would have stung Italy badly there. What a difference Camoranesi made when he came on. Not convinced by many of the new players, either- Pepe was pretty good, but it was the veterans producing most of the good stuff.

We're still waiting on That One Game that makes us sit up and take notice- that lets us know the World Cup has really arrived. Hopefully Brazil and Spain can finally get the party started in real style.

[Lillith]

Nothing beats hearing that your country got the first goal while the dentist you're making an appointment with is on the phone with a client to reschedule an appointment, who suddenly screams GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAL! Yeah that was a fun one.

While I don't care for soccer at all, I still like the whole 2-0 points. At least I'm that much patriotic.

[Delta]

We're still waiting on That One Game that makes us sit up and take notice- that lets us know the World Cup has really arrived. Hopefully Brazil and Spain can finally get the party started in real style.

Yes, I admit that I'm not too impressed by most showings so far. Germany has done great, but against a weak opponent, still, better than what we've seen from England, France, Italy and the Netherlands so far.

If anything, I hope you can agree with me now that there's quite some young talent that's been coming out of german football in recent years. Thomas Müller is but 20 years old, last year around this time, he's been playing with Bayern München Reserve Squad in the 3rd german league, he was too young to play for the German U21 in the European Cup win last year, and now he's been a starter for the whole season, winning the national double and reaching the CL final, and at that, now he's scored in his first World Cup appearance and scored a brillant assist on the first goal.

Funny thing, it was only an hour before the game that Löw declared he'd let Müller start, in the preparation games, Trochowski started on his position. Talk about a wise decision :smallwink:

[ForzaFiori]

My friends have had a semi-joking hatred for Italy ever since they won last time on a "wussy dive" that kept Zinedine Zidane (the only truly manly soccer player ever) out of the penalty shootout. Despite the fact that ordinarily they can't stand the French, they cheer exclusively for the French soccer team for this reason. Truly, their capacity for larrikinism is boundless.


Zenedine Zidane was a disgrace to soccer. He had what, 20? 30? ejections for violent acts? As in fights, not like a hard tackle, ending with headbutting someone, on national TV, in one of the most prestigious competitions ever, then acting as though he was justified! I'm sorry, but if he is the player you and your friends look up to, I would hate to see you on the field. He should be in jail for assault right now, instead of living off the millions he was paid to try to turn soccer into hockey.

On a side note: I can't believe Italy has fallen so far. They have GOT to pull it together so they can come back and take the cup home again

[Delta]

AFAIK it wasn't as many as 20 or 30 by far, I think he had about 8 or so red cards in his career, which is still an awful lot, especially for a non-defensive player. And yes, the headbutt in the final was a disgrace.

[dehro]

AFAIK it wasn't as many as 20 or 30 by far, I think he had about 8 or so red cards in his career, which is still an awful lot, especially for a non-defensive player. And yes, the headbutt in the final was a disgrace.

wasn't his first headbutt either..he's done it at least one other time, not to mention a few punches etc etc...in other words, he was known to have a temper.

[Delta]

wasn't his first headbutt either..he's done it at least one other time, not to mention a few punches etc etc...in other words, he was known to have a temper.

The thing what bothers me most about the headbutt is, that I have problem assigning it to just "temper". If you slap someone, you punch someone, even kick someone, yes, that can happen if you've got a temper and get insulted (still unacceptable, IMHO, but what can you do?)

But to headbutt someone, that's not something that just "happens", you have to think "Okay, now I gonna ram my head against this guy", because it's something that runs counter your human instincts always to protect your head.

[comicshorse]

As I understand it the other player was insulting Zidane and his family ( specifically his mother) throughout the match in the hope he would do something stupid. But Zidane held his temper until the match was over and then very deliberately walked over and head-butted the guy.
So not to excuse Zidane but I'm not sure he was doing anymore to bring the game into disrepute than the other guy

[Delta]

Er, no, the game was still on in overtime when Zidane headbutted Materazzi, he was sent off and France went on to lose the penalty shoot-out.

Yes, Materazzi may be a prick, and yes, he had been insulting Zidane all day long. In my book, that's still no excuse for a grown man and professional who's been doing this for all his life to headbutt someone, much less in such a situation, the deciding minutes of one of the most important games in his whole career.

[comicshorse]

Posted by Delta

Er, no, the game was still on in overtime when Zidane headbutted Materazzi, he was sent off and France went on to lose the penalty shoot-out.


Really (quickly checks)
The human mind is weird, I watched that match and was sure I remember it happening after the match but you're right.

[ForzaFiori]

As I understand it the other player was insulting Zidane and his family ( specifically his mother) throughout the match in the hope he would do something stupid. But Zidane held his temper until the match was over and then very deliberately walked over and head-butted the guy.
So not to excuse Zidane but I'm not sure he was doing anymore to bring the game into disrepute than the other guy

Trash talking is normal in soccer. People come to expect it. Not to mention the fact that of the billions of people watching the game, very few can look at Matterazi, read his lips, and understand Italian, so very few could see the trash talking. ALL of them saw the head butt. Words =/= actions.

[Killer Angel]

On a side note: I can't believe Italy has fallen so far. They have GOT to pull it together so they can come back and take the cup home again

oh, believe it, believe it... I don't think Italy will last long .
Too many players that came from a awful year, I don't think they can suddenly (and magically) find a good condition just for the cup.

(Obviously I can be wrong... we never start good in the world cup. Never)


Trash talking is normal in soccer. People come to expect it.

Yes. Defensive players very often insult their direct adversary, in very vulgar or racist ways, just to make him lose self-control. And still, it's not that you see headbutts every match...
Zidane is very hot tempered and he acted violently more than one time; but with that act, he spoiled the final day of his career.

[ForzaFiori]

oh, believe it, believe it... I don't think Italy will last long .
Too many players that came from a awful year, I don't think they can suddenly (and magically) find a good condition just for the cup.

(Obviously I can be wrong... we never start good in the world cup. Never)

If America and England can fall apart each year, Italy can pull it together.

[J.Gellert]

Zidane is very hot tempered and he acted violently more than one time; but with that act, he spoiled the final day of his career.

Spoiled, or made it awesome?

Eh?

Eh?
Eh...?

Yeeah... Hmm... Alright :smallredface:

[comicshorse]

Posted by ForzaFiori

Trash talking is normal in soccer

So is diving doesn't mean they aren't still a disgrace.
I'm not excusing Zidane I just think that nasty tacics such as insulting a player's family should be punishable as well

[Killer Angel]

Spoiled, or made it awesome?

Yeeah... Hmm... Alright :smallredface:

Without doubt, he made it memorable. :smalltongue:


I'm not excusing Zidane I just think that nasty tacics such as insulting a player's family should be punishable as well

Indeed.

[Delta]

I'm not excusing Zidane I just think that nasty tacics such as insulting a player's family should be punishable as well

They are, that's why Materazzi was punished for his insults as well.

And Italy's showing shouldn't really surprise anyone, for one thing, the team hasn't been in good shape for quite some time, and at that, Italy has in the past often played very weakly in their group games to pull it together for the knock-out matches.

[ForzaFiori]

They are, that's why Materazzi was punished for his insults as well.

And Italy's showing shouldn't really surprise anyone, for one thing, the team hasn't been in good shape for quite some time, and at that, Italy has in the past often played very weakly in their group games to pull it together for the knock-out matches.

True. Even in the last cup, where they were good enough to get to the finals (while they won, some people feel that they didn't deserve it. IMHO that way of thinking is bull, but to each their own), Italy scored America's only goal on their self.

[Spiryt]

I still can't believe that Slovensk guys aren't winning at least 2:0 here... Some great actions, but couldn't score it. :smallmad:

[Delta]

Naaaaaa they know I've predicted the game to go 1:0 for them so they're content to leave it that way, nice guys that they are :smallsmile:

stooooopid little kiwis :smallfurious:

[Spiryt]

Naaah, they ate this draw for their own wish, IMO. :smalltongue:

[Phaedra]

Naaaaaa they know I've predicted the game to go 1:0 for them so they're content to leave it that way, nice guys that they are :smallsmile:

stooooopid little kiwis :smallfurious:

:smallfrown: Aw, be nice to the poor Kiwis. They don't even have a professional league back home. They did good. They deserve their one point. It'll probably be the only one they get.

[dehro]

The thing what bothers me most about the headbutt is, that I have problem assigning it to just "temper". If you slap someone, you punch someone, even kick someone, yes, that can happen if you've got a temper and get insulted (still unacceptable, IMHO, but what can you do?)

But to headbutt someone, that's not something that just "happens", you have to think "Okay, now I gonna ram my head against this guy", because it's something that runs counter your human instincts always to protect your head.

well..footballers are used to banging their heads together when they aim at getting the same header..so I suppose they're a bit more resilient, lol.

that said, I despise materazzi and yes, these underhand tactics, like diving, should really not happen..but that's the nature of the game, and the money that is involved doens't help to keep it clean.
anyway, a footballer of the experience, skill and status of zidane should know better. he was goaded and fell for it, just like rooney fell for christiano ronaldo's similar tactics.

[Klose_the_Sith]

:smallfrown: Aw, be nice to the poor Kiwis. They don't even have a professional league back home. They did good. They deserve their one point. It'll probably be the only one they get.

I think they have a team or two in our A-League, but that's semi-pro at best :smallwink:

In other news, go Kiwi's! Even though we hate you in every other sport, when it comes to soccer you guys are just adorable!

[comicshorse]

Posted by Dehro

just like rooney fell for christiano ronaldo's similar tactics.

Ah, you may just have put your finger on the source of my pain there

[St.Sinner]

:smallfrown: Aw, be nice to the poor Kiwis. They don't even have a professional league back home. They did good. They deserve their one point. It'll probably be the only one they get.

Unstylish and lacking in pedigree as they are, the Kiwis still managed a better showing than Australia. Their performance at least was not a shameful humiliation. They seem to have improved a bit since the Confederations Cup last year, which was a humiliation.

Is anyone else a little irritated by the short supply of goals so far? Aside from Germany's game, there's been no more than two goals scored in any match, which is very low indeed. Also other than Germany again, none of the teams seem to me to be playing like they're trying to win the World Cup. It's all been rather uninspired and tentative. Perhaps it's early days yet. Here's hoping it'll pick up, fast.

[comicshorse]

Yep I get the feeling everybody's taking it easy to avoid injuries before the later rounds

[St.Sinner]

It's making me feel a bit silly in the mornings when I'm all bleary and raccoon-eyed, having stayed up through the night to see a 0-0 match. Damn it, if I'm this committed, you'd think the teams damn well should be too. Someone should tell them.

[Syka]

I refuse to get up at 7am to watch a match, lol. I just check my phone after I'm up, and I'm usually up in time to see the second match of the day. Once I get my computer settled (Ie, finish a paper) I'm going to stream the Brazil-PRK match.



Also....since I've never heavily watched a World Cup before, is it normal to have half of the matches be draws this early? It strikes me as...a lot. Especially considering the 0-0 draws.

[SMEE]

Yup. It's pretty normal, even more in the first games.
The players are usually nervous, having to defend their very countries in THE biggest soccer event, so they end up not performing 100%.

[dehro]

I have a little beef with the cameramen...

they used to zoom in on the pretty supporters... now all they zoom in on is ball play...
seriously...
that's just wrong!

on a more serious note..how awesome would it be to see a korean derby? (not that that will ever happen in this tournament...but it WOULD be quite an event, I'm sure)

[comicshorse]

Hmmm I'm definitely seeing a trend here. Brazil aren't exactly setting the pitch on fire here

[SMEE]

:smallyuk:

It would be nice if Brazil decided to play football today. But no...
I hope they wake up at the second half, because it's being UGLY to watch this. :smallfurious:

[Amiria]

The North Koreans performance is quite impressive against the five times world champion. A few scoring chances of their own and very few fouls. They are probably all behavioral modified elite footballers/soldiers (a la Jason Bourne). :smalltongue:

PS: Beware, don't answer seriously about behavioral modification or other possibly political topics.

[Elhann]

Brazil will probably win this match, but up to this point, the only national team that has done what they were supposed to do has been Germany.

Up to this point, this World Cup is being quite disappointing. I just hope the last group is better (mind you, I'm Spanish, so I might be a little biased :smalltongue: ), or, at least, that we get some goals and better games when the players calm down.

[St.Sinner]

Although it's not uncommon to have draws, the teams really do seem to have an especially wishy-washy attitude for scoring this time around. Early stages or no, it's the World Cup, so play like you mean it dammit!

I give up! I'm just going to have to abandon this match and Brazil for some sleep. Happy watching to you all - I hope the game improves soon!

[Superglucose]

Yeah that was my complaint about the World Cup so far. None of them seem to have a sense of urgency. "Huh... we're down 0-1 and there's thirty minutes left. I'm sure if we take a nap the ball will magically find its way in the goal!"

It's annoying because it's almost like the teams are trying to take away the tension in a match. Like in the NBA finals, in game 5 the Celtics had a sense of urgency. The series was tied 2-2, but the whole game the Celtics were playing like, "OH GOD we cannot afford to lose this match." Each missed shot was clearly, "Oh crap, we can't afford to do that." Every second was pushing as hard as they could, giving it all they could, etc. That's why I love watching sports, seeing these guys give it their all for 48 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever, and the end result is the better team wins.

This world cup has felt like people go out there to stand around for 90 minutes, sort of watching the ball and listening to those horns. Haven't seen any team that stood out as even really trying all that hard... just teams that seemed moderately content to score.

[dehro]

kudos to north korea for not giving up until the end, and managing to score.
many other teams, down 2 goals against brazil in the first match would have tried to cut their losses.

[SMEE]

:smallannoyed:

Ugly game and this victory leaves a sour taste. Everyone was expecting MUCH more from Brazil.

[Amiria]

kudos to north korea for not giving up until the end, and managing to score.
many other teams, down 2 goals against brazil in the first match would have tried to cut their losses.

Agreed.

Yeah, after watching this match I can say - without beeing overbearing - that so far Germany is the only top team that hath shown an outstanding performance in their fist match. Spain is now the one team left that hath a chance to prove from the start that they are favourites for the world cup too.

[Aedilred]

Yeah that was my complaint about the World Cup so far. None of them seem to have a sense of urgency. "Huh... we're down 0-1 and there's thirty minutes left. I'm sure if we take a nap the ball will magically find its way in the goal!"
Actually, to be fair, Italy did wake up once the goal went in, and once Camoranesi in particular, but also di Natale, came on, started playing real football. That doesn't excuse them for the however-many-minutes before that, mind.

Delta- yeah, I have to take back what I said about the Germans previously. Before the tournament started, they looked to me like a side missing its best talent, with a load of inexperienced youngsters, a couple of tired oldies, and a couple of dependable but fundamentally unexciting players somewhere in the middle. I couldn't have been more wrong. Ozil and Muller were a revelation, Klose looked like he'd lost about six years, and Podolski was a completely different player to the one we've seen all season. The Germans are still the only team who've made me sit up and take notice of them.

I'm not convinced that New Zealand deserve any more credit than the Aussies, really. I didn't see all the game (end of the first half, almost all the second) but they looked like a side fundamentally low on quality but prepared to give it a go- which is what Australia looked like for much of the first half too. The difference is in the quality of the opposition. Germany tore Australia apart and by the second half the Socceroos had clearly had the stuffing knocked out of them. Slovakia simply aren't as good and couldn't take advantage of New Zealand's weaknesses in the same way. Had the draw been reversed, Australia might well have beaten Slovakia, but New Zealand would still have lost to Germany, and probably by more than four.

I missed most of the Brazil game, although I saw the highlights, and they were disappointing. It's ironic that at a time that Germany are trying to play a bit more like Brazil, Brazil are trying to turn themselves into Germany. On the current showing, the Germans are doing a better job of it, and Brazil should go back to being Brazil. Doing otherwise is no fun and doesn't do any good anyway. Portugal were predictably dull; a chronically overrated team. I was hoping Ivory Coast would go for it a bit more but I suppose they thought it was more important not to lose- still, I felt Portugal was the weak link in this group and the Ivorians might have had more luck against them than the Koreans, even.

Although it's not unusual for this many games to be drawn, it is unusual for this few goals to have been scored. Glances are being cast at the ball, and while I think the ball might have something to do with it, I can't help but make an obvious observation: if the ball is moving strangely in the air, keep it on the damn ground. The Germans played mostly with the ball at their feet and won four-nil. Never mind their experience with the ball- they didn't need any "unfair" advantages to control it, just basic ball skills. Argentina might have had more luck if they'd aimed low rather than trying to bombard all corners of the goal and see the ball loop off into the stands. If England in particular learned to pass the ball low and quickly between players rather than hoofing it upfield and hoping for the best, they might get better results, but of course that's the same no matter what ball they use.

Regarding the Zidane headbutt, I'm kind of ambivalent. Obviously, as a foul and a footballing incident, it was appalling, and inexcusable. But in context, as a spectacle, as a moment of drama, it's one of the best things that's ever happened. That it was the World Cup final; that the two players involved were the only goalscorers in that match; that it was Zidane, one of the greatest players of his generation and indeed all time, who'd dragged his country to the final near-singlehanded; that it was his last ever game as a professional; that the game was still there for the taking by either team- and suddenly, BAM, out of nowhere, an insane headbutt into this Italian who'd been getting up everyone's nose for the whole match... I mean, who hasn't wanted to do that? To have it all, and then throw it all away in full view of the world, for no better reason than to deliver a smackdown to a complete tool- there's something magnificent in that.

I bet there's a part of Zidane that thinks, four years on, that it was worth it.

Strangely, at least among those I've spoken to (beware: anecdotal evidence) it hasn't really hurt his reputation; it's even enhanced it; Materazzi comes across as the real villain. That Zidane was prepared to sacrifice his own reputation, legacy, moment of glory, whatever, because someone was insulting his family- there's something you can respect in there even if his methods were reprehensible.

[Xyk]

Yeah that was my complaint about the World Cup so far. None of them seem to have a sense of urgency. "Huh... we're down 0-1 and there's thirty minutes left. I'm sure if we take a nap the ball will magically find its way in the goal!"

It's annoying because it's almost like the teams are trying to take away the tension in a match. Like in the NBA finals, in game 5 the Celtics had a sense of urgency. The series was tied 2-2, but the whole game the Celtics were playing like, "OH GOD we cannot afford to lose this match." Each missed shot was clearly, "Oh crap, we can't afford to do that." Every second was pushing as hard as they could, giving it all they could, etc. That's why I love watching sports, seeing these guys give it their all for 48 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever, and the end result is the better team wins.

This world cup has felt like people go out there to stand around for 90 minutes, sort of watching the ball and listening to those horns. Haven't seen any team that stood out as even really trying all that hard... just teams that seemed moderately content to score.

As a player, I can see where they're coming from. These top notch teams like germany, spain, england, brazil, italy, etc. are practically in the next round already and don't want to risk an injury (or a red card) for their starters this early in the tournament.