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View Full Version : [3.5] Refining and/or Improving my Character (and Planning for the Future!)



Zovc
2010-05-25, 01:39 AM
I'm in a fairly optimized group, we're at level 1 and about to enter the World's Largest Dungeon.

So far, our group looks like this, as far as I can tell (It's play-by-post, and our game hasn't gotten under way, so players are in and out right now):

Zopyrus - Hamatula HD 1/Mineral Warrior LA 1
Svari - Water Orc Feral 1/Lycanthrope HD 1 (were-polar bear)
("Player 3" is undecided, mentioned being a roguelike character)
...and most recently a Deep Dragonwrought Kobold Archivist/Factotum. (O_O)

I feel like I'm going to be a shabby member of the group as a Feral Anthromorphic Bat Cloistered Cleric//LA +1. DM has ruled against me using my hands while flying, and has decided my feet don't have enough motor skill to use, say, a bow. DM is currently deciding whether or not a feat would allow me to use my feet (ha), I put forth Zen Archery as a candidate, in hopes of making the feat even more useful to my character.

I am torn between Feral LA and Monk as my two options for the 'second' side of my gestalt, because Monk would make me a more competent fighter (and get me +1 more to my AC), but Feral makes me absurdly more survivable. (d10 HD, Fast Healing, +10 ground movement speed)

Is there anything salvageable in this build? I'm hoping to be almost as powerful as the rest of my party members, but that is looking to be difficult in the direction I'm currently pointing myself.

I know this build will become more potent a few levels in, assuming it can live to get those levels, but there is the problem: how do I survive enough levels to become powerful.

What do you think is the most efficient path for this build to 'power'? That is, Let's not worry about 9th level casting, let's worry making this build a dangerous, sturdy, and useful character as quickly as possible. What classes/prestige classes should I look at?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-25, 01:50 AM
The Surrogate Spellcasting feat in Savage Species is exactly what you're looking for, though it won't allow you to use a bow while flying. Maybe go LA +1/Soulknife 2/ Swordsage 2/Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) on the other side.

Zovc
2010-05-25, 02:43 AM
The Surrogate Spellcasting feat in Savage Species is exactly what you're looking for, though it won't allow you to use a bow while flying. Maybe go LA +1/Soulknife 2/ Swordsage 2/Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) on the other side.

I'm not quite sure Surrogate Spellcasting is what I want.

On your build, Perhaps I should take Swordsage first to get its AC bonus ASAP?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-05-25, 03:18 AM
Surrogate Spellcasting does what you want mechanically, it allows you to use your feet instead of your hands for somatic components. That should also be enough to clear up any doubt as to whether you could use your feet to fire Mind Arrows via Soulbow, and be sure to get TWF.

I'd want to be able to get 2nd level maneuvers at Swordsage 2, so I'd actually probably go LA +1/ Soulknife 1/ Swordsage 2/ Soulknife 1/ Soulbow, since your Cleric level taken next to the level adjustment would also count toward that.

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-05-25, 10:21 AM
I think your build Feral Antro Bat Cloistered cleric will be fine. I understand worrying about being front loaded with everyone else having a lot more damage dealing capacity than you but, at level 1 being a healbot is a valid combat role.

Just fly around landing to use a bow whenever you need to and heal/buff as needed if nobody has cleave than they should welcome you picking off weakened foes with your bow or dual claw attacks.

If you're really really concerned about being strong at level 1 play druid instead of cleric and contribute a wolf to the front lines.

Zovc
2010-05-25, 01:48 PM
Just fly around landing to use a bow whenever you need to and heal/buff as needed if nobody has cleave than they should welcome you picking off weakened foes with your bow or dual claw attacks.

If you're really really concerned about being strong at level 1 play druid instead of cleric and contribute a wolf to the front lines.

I doubt I could hit anything with my claw attacks, in all fairness. :P

Druid might be a better choice, seeing as its my favored class anyways.

Zovc
2010-05-25, 02:53 PM
DM has decided to allow my footbow shenanigans in midair, but I am not able to fire two bows at once should I attempt to do so (while on the ground). (This will not even require a feat.)

So, I'm a Feral Anthropomorphic Bat Cloistered Cleric//LA+1

I'm thinking of taking the War domain so as to gain proficiency with bows, what should my other domain be?

Also, I will probably take the Zen Archery as a feat. I can take flaws to gain myself extra feats, if I feel the need to. Are there any other feats that I should try to get my hands on now?

I'm going to make a quick search for one, but are there any better martial bows than the Composite Longbow? Keep in mind that I'm a small character.

Hand_of_Vecna
2010-05-25, 03:55 PM
Is archery your ultimate goal or is it a stopgap measure for contributing at level 1? What are your mechanical goals for this character? I'll need to know more to give you more specific advice than my earlier don't drop feral for a monk level.

Zovc
2010-05-25, 04:44 PM
Is archery your ultimate goal or is it a stopgap measure for contributing at level 1? What are your mechanical goals for this character? I'll need to know more to give you more specific advice than my earlier don't drop feral for a monk level.

I don't have any particular mechanical goal with this character. Being survivable, powerful, and a competent healer are all generic things I'd like to achieve.

The only reason I'm so interested in archery is because it'll make me a much more competent, rounded character. (I also realized that Zen Archery requires a +1 Base Attack Bonus, so I can't take it at level 1.)

Skimming through the Cleric's Handbook on Brilliant Gameologists had this stick out at me:
"The Druid Variant Dip
Unearthed Arcana has a druid variant that offers a monk's AC bonus, the Track feat, and one Favored Enemy as a one level dip. For certain cleric builds, this could be a good choice. The Monk's AC bonus is always a nice boost, and a +2 favored enemy can be really useful for not too heavy of an investment. Probably the biggest boon of this dip is access to the druid's spell list. You can now activate spell completion items of druid only spells like Owl's Insight. Now if only there were divine runestaffs... :weep"

This variant seems particularly potent with my race choice. I couldn't find it in the d20 SRD, can anyone point me to it?

Zovc
2010-05-28, 09:57 PM
If I wanted to end up buffing myself to absurd power levels, what should I do?

I imagine Cleric>Druid because of Divine Metamagic, but that still only solves one side of my gestalt. Should I keep with the whole "MOAR WISDOM" approach I've been taking, or should I try to give my Charisma a break? I went ahead and dumped Charisma initially, but Divine Metamagic is somewhat Charisma hungry.

I have my first level feat, and can take up to two flaws in order to get two more feats.

Will Monk/Unarmed Swordsage still be of use to me? Having Maneuvers to go with my Divine Power would be pretty kool.