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Cicciograna
2010-05-25, 08:17 AM
Does an Elf Druid violate his oaths if he wields a longsword? Or it's just a matter of armor?

unre9istered
2010-05-25, 08:20 AM
Druids no longer have a code of conduct to violate. Their weapon selection is limited by training not vows. Their armor limitation is due to the fact that it somehow messes up their spell casting while wearing it and for 24 hrs after.

Farlion
2010-05-25, 08:22 AM
In 3.5 the example druid build in the PHB uses a scimitar, which is also made of metal (as the longsword). The only thing that keeps a druid from using a longsword is the lack of martial weapon proficiency.

Cheers,
Farlion

kamikasei
2010-05-25, 08:29 AM
Druids no longer have a code of conduct to violate. Their weapon selection is limited by training not vows. Their armor limitation is due to the fact that it somehow messes up their spell casting while wearing it and for 24 hrs after.

The language on the SRD is that they're prohibited from wearing metal armor, and I believe the PHB explicitly says it's due to their oaths. That's only their armor, though, not their weapons; they can wield whatever they feel like without penalty if they're proficient with it.

Eldariel
2010-05-25, 08:33 AM
Indeed, Scimitar is a legal Druid weapon which is...well, not very far from a Longsword at all. So it would be pretty silly for the limitation to not prevent Scimitars, only Longswords.

Cicciograna
2010-05-25, 08:57 AM
Okay, had my answer. Thank you all.

Saintheart
2010-05-25, 09:02 AM
The language on the SRD is that they're prohibited from wearing metal armor, and I believe the PHB explicitly says it's due to their oaths. That's only their armor, though, not their weapons; they can wield whatever they feel like without penalty if they're proficient with it.

And if you're wandering around in the Forgotten Realms and worship Mielikki as a druid, you can wear any damn armor you like of light or medium size and not violate your spiritual oaths. I have a strong suspicion this is because a certain dual-wielding drow was shoehorned into worship of Mielikki by Bobby Salvatore, but that's another matter.

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 09:07 AM
And if you're wandering around in the Forgotten Realms and worship Mielikki as a druid, you can wear any damn armor you like of light or medium size and not violate your spiritual oaths. I have a strong suspicion this is because a certain dual-wielding drow was shoehorned into worship of Mielikki by Bobby Salvatore, but that's another matter.

He's not a druid though, so their vows aren't very relevant to his situation.
Mielikki's dogma covers the metal armor exception - it's her attempt to make her druids live more closely with civilization than those of, say, Silvanus.

unre9istered
2010-05-25, 09:41 AM
The only consequence to wearing armor is to lose the ability to cast spells while wearing it and for 24 hours after (and maybe other class features, I'm not sure). It seems like the 'spiritual oaths' that druids make are very forgiving of being broken.

Greenish
2010-05-25, 09:45 AM
The only consequence to wearing armor is to lose the ability to cast spells while wearing it and for 24 hours after (and maybe other class features, I'm not sure).You also lose Wildshape.
It seems like the 'spiritual oaths' that druids make are very forgiving of being broken.Only the one about armour. Breaking any of the rest loses you all class features (bar proficiencies) and requires Atonement.

[Edit]:
Mielikki's dogma covers the metal armor exception - it's her attempt to make her druids live more closely with civilization than those of, say, Silvanus.It's funny that the goddess of the Forests and Hunt is closer to civilization than the god of woods and fields.

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 10:14 AM
[Edit]:It's funny that the goddess of the Forests and Hunt is closer to civilization than the god of woods and fields.

Not really. Think about it - hunting and exploration are the primary reason for outsiders to enter the wilds in the first place. As they are both under her portfolio, she thus has more reason to deal with outsiders than the others.

Think of her as the nature deities' outreach program - in order to connect with the city-dwellers more closely, she grants her druids concessions that the others do not.

Also, Silvanus is too much of a traditionalist to ever consider lifting that restriction, but it makes sense for his daughter to be a more progressive thinker.

Greenish
2010-05-25, 10:28 AM
Not really. Think about it - hunting and exploration are the primary reason for outsiders to enter the wilds in the first place. As they are both under her portfolio, she thus has more reason to deal with outsiders than the others.Because it's not like people ever go to work on fields.

[Edit]: And yeah, I was referring their mythological namesakes more than the FR deities.

gbprime
2010-05-25, 10:35 AM
Because it's not like people ever go to work on fields.

Of course not, this is a magical economy. Your commoners plant the fields and harvest the fields. Between those two times, they never set foot in the fields at all, because the town has pooled tax money to pay a 5th level druid to cast Plant Growth for a bountiful harvest.

So the commoners instead spend all their time fixing up their farmhouses, which the sourcebooks say cost anywhere between 2000 and 14000 gp each. Clearly they have to use work-equity to get that. :smallamused:

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 10:46 AM
Because it's not like people ever go to work on fields.

You don't typically need armor on them, unless you have pretty dangerous crops :smalltongue:

Machiavellian
2010-05-25, 01:24 PM
I actually burned a feat for Heavy Armor, and made a Shapeshifting Darkwood set of Fullplate. THAT was a riot.

gbprime
2010-05-25, 02:33 PM
I actually burned a feat for Heavy Armor, and made a Shapeshifting Darkwood set of Fullplate. THAT was a riot.

They call him MISTER Turtlebear.

dgnslyr
2010-05-25, 07:48 PM
You don't typically need armor on them, unless you have pretty dangerous crops :smalltongue:

Have you ever heard of ultra-mahogany? The kind that breathes fire?

Mando Knight
2010-05-25, 08:28 PM
In 3.5 the example druid build in the PHB uses a scimitar, which is also made of metal (as the longsword). The only thing that keeps a druid from using a longsword is the lack of martial weapon proficiency.

Being an elf solves that problem, of course. :smallwink:

Eldariel
2010-05-25, 08:44 PM
Being an elf solves that problem, of course. :smallwink:

To apply certain famous quotes:
"Being an elf solves all problems. No humans, no problems."

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 09:16 PM
To apply certain famous quotes:
"Being an elf solves all problems. No humans, no problems."

Except the problem of being an elf :smallyuk:
My anti-elf opposition party has dwindled recently though...

Knaight
2010-05-25, 10:41 PM
They all moved to Burning Wheel to celebrate its Grief mechanic driving elves to suicide.

holywhippet
2010-05-25, 10:54 PM
He's not a druid though, so their vows aren't very relevant to his situation.


Kind of ironic since should have a high enough level to cast spells but he never does other than his innate powers.

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 11:12 PM
They all moved to Burning Wheel to celebrate its Grief mechanic driving elves to suicide.

I meant here on the forums, though that is a suitably heartwarming image. :smallwink:


Kind of ironic since should have a high enough level to cast spells but he never does other than his innate powers.

Maybe he's a magicless variant... or maybe he just went to the Belkar school of Rangerdom :smalltongue:

holywhippet
2010-05-25, 11:39 PM
Maybe he's a magicless variant... or maybe he just went to the Belkar school of Rangerdom :smalltongue:

I did consider that - he was made in 2nd edition so he could have taken a non-spell casting kit. However he is still around when the world switches to 3rd edition rules so to speak.

Escheton
2010-05-25, 11:51 PM
Druid's are prohibited from wielding and wearing worked non-natural materials.
Scimitars are rather crude, thus they don't count.

Optimystik
2010-05-25, 11:59 PM
I did consider that - he was made in 2nd edition so he could have taken a non-spell casting kit. However he is still around when the world switches to 3rd edition rules so to speak.

I'm sure you can reverse-engineer the magicless Ranger from CWar to 3.0.


Druid's are prohibited from wielding and wearing worked non-natural materials.
Scimitars are rather crude, thus they don't count.

Nah, just "wearing." Wielding is fine (except in the case of shields.)

Escheton
2010-05-26, 12:12 AM
srd doublecheck:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape (see below).

Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may wear only padded, leather, or hide armor. (A druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. See the ironwood spell description) Druids are proficient with shields (except tower shields) but must use only wooden ones.

A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter.


hmm, you are right

The Cat Goddess
2010-05-26, 01:08 AM
Eh, the real reason he never casts Ranger spells is because he's got a Wisdom less than 11.

Many of the things he does are... not very wise.

hamishspence
2010-05-26, 05:00 AM
The 3.0 version of Drizzt, while mediocre, does have access to ranger spells- but only very low level ones, since he's mostly fighter with ranger levels (and 1 barbarian level).

2xMachina
2010-05-26, 05:10 AM
:( Too bad Mielikki doesn't allow heavy armor for some reason.

Adamantine Warforged Druid of Mielikki who wildshapes into a dinosaur would be so cool.

Also, add Dragonfire Adept.

Transforming construct animals who breathe fire anyone?

Coidzor
2010-05-26, 06:13 AM
Ahh.... Druids and Paladins who are dependent upon specific deities.

Though it seems Mielikki actually offers something in exchange for the BS of dealing with an overgrown child. Intriguing.

Dr.Epic
2010-05-26, 06:32 AM
Does an Elf Druid violate his oaths if he wields a longsword? Or it's just a matter of armor?

It only applies to metal armor. Druids are proficient with metal weapons like the scimitar.

Greenish
2010-05-26, 07:15 AM
Druid's are prohibited from wielding and wearing worked non-natural materials.
Scimitars are rather crude, thus they don't count.Did that seriously make sense in your head? :smallconfused:

katans
2010-05-26, 07:37 AM
Scimitars are rather crude, thus they don't count.
Yeah, right.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Talwar_Hindú_SXVII.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Ph-0.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Imperial_Armoury_Topkapi_Istanbul_(7).JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Shaska_Cosaca_II.jpg

Mark Hall
2010-05-26, 04:04 PM
Druid's are prohibited from wielding and wearing worked non-natural materials.
Scimitars are rather crude, thus they don't count.

While I can't walk outside and pick some up from the ground, iron is fairly natural. Steel, even, is just an application of natural processes. And scimitars are no more crude than long swords. Short swords are a bit more primitive (the Romans used them in part because they didn't have the metalsmithing technology to handle longer swords). Khopesh are also fairly primitive, but that's mostly design inefficiencies.

Lateral
2010-05-26, 04:19 PM
Yeah, right.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Talwar_Hindú_SXVII.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Ph-0.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Imperial_Armoury_Topkapi_Istanbul_(7).JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Shaska_Cosaca_II.jpg

DAHMN, those are some big-ass swords. :smalleek:

Octopus Jack
2010-05-26, 04:27 PM
Yeah, right.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Talwar_Hindú_SXVII.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Ph-0.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Imperial_Armoury_Topkapi_Istanbul_(7).JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Shaska_Cosaca_II.jpg

I know I just got some new swords but I want those ones too!

Optimystik
2010-05-26, 04:32 PM
:( Too bad Mielikki doesn't allow heavy armor for some reason.

Adamantine Warforged Druid of Mielikki who wildshapes into a dinosaur would be so cool.

Also, add Dragonfire Adept.

Transforming construct animals who breathe fire anyone?

Secrets of Xen'drik has a PrC designed for Warforged Druids - Landforged Walker.

Though it focuses more on turning into cybernetic plants than into dinosaurs.

Escheton
2010-05-27, 12:16 AM
Those are masterwork, does not count.
Forging a straight sword vs forging a scimitar.
Scimitars are a more basic sword that needs less skill to make. To make a functional one. Not a kick-ass one like posted, geez.

And yes it made sense.

Optimystik
2010-05-27, 12:22 AM
Scimitars are a more basic sword that needs less skill to make.

[citation needed]

Safety Sword
2010-05-27, 12:23 AM
The point was back there... you all missed it.

The scimtar and sickle have some relationship to druidic tradition. They're basically farming tools, used for cutting grain or herbs.

Longswords are purely weapons of war. That's why they're not allowed, not due to their metallic composition.

Teron
2010-05-27, 12:47 AM
Scimitars are not farming tools and have no connection whatsoever to historical druids. The word designates a variety of curved swords from the Middle East and thereabouts, all of which are true weapons of war.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out repeatedly, longswords (and all other weapons) can be used by druids. They just aren't proficient with them by default.

Vizzerdrix
2010-05-27, 01:13 AM
Honestly, I think the dude who was writing up the Druid got scimitar confused with machete. I could see Druids using machete. :smallamused:


And I second the call for citation on the whole scimitars are easier to make thing, as that makes no since at all.

Sliver
2010-05-27, 01:23 AM
Since both are martial weapons, it's clear the DC is 15 and the same.

Safety Sword
2010-05-27, 01:25 AM
Honestly, I think the dude who was writing up the Druid got scimitar confused with machete. I could see Druids using machete. :smallamused:


That's actually not a bad point.

I don't see where the scimtars came into it either... except for the fact that i guess it looks somewhat like a large sickle.. perhaps that's what put it on the druids class list.

Zombimode
2010-05-27, 03:23 AM
except for the fact that i guess it looks somewhat like a large sickle..

Yeah, right:

http://www.heavenlyswords.com/images/D/Persian-Warrior-Scimitar-L.jpg
looks totaly like
http://www.chillingtontoolsonline.co.uk/images/products/large/Sickle.jpg

:smallsigh:

Want to know what weapon really looks like a sickle?
This one:
http://i43.tinypic.com/15529w5.jpg

Ist called a shotel and very different from a scimitar.

Greenish
2010-05-27, 04:31 AM
The scimtar and sickle have some relationship to druidic tradition. They're basically farming tools, used for cutting grain or herbs.Then why are druids proficient with darts?

And why aren't they proficient with kukris? They are as much a tool as a weapon.

Leon
2010-05-27, 07:10 AM
Then why are druids proficient with darts?


You have to have something to play when sitting around drinking root beer after a Circle gathering

Simba
2010-05-27, 07:24 AM
Honestly, I think the dude who was writing up the Druid got scimitar confused with machete. I could see Druids using machete. :smallamused:

Or the Scythe: The scythe is an indispensable tool for farmers in developing countries and in mountainous terrain. A war scythe has had its blade transformed so that it extends upright from the staff, and is used much like a halberd.

Ossian
2010-05-27, 08:41 AM
Coming from the RBGB boxed sets (2nd edition, I miss you!) I would say that the scimitar is a bit out of place. The spirit of the rule, at least, indicated that druids should shun elaborate, man made artifacts. All that can be contrived by means of gathering simple materials and basic craftsmanship should be OK. There was back then a contradiction in terms of the material. Druids (who were basically 9th level True Neutral clerics) were forbidden from wearing and touching any metal, as it was something "dead". Now, to me, stone and bones are as dead (or as alive) as any piece of ore or any other alloy, and I do not see how a zweihander made of magic daedric glass and wicked spellcraft is more OK to a guardian of nature than a sickle, a scimitar or a chainmail. I guess it has to do with some ways of "altering" a product of mother nature (collect the ore, pattern weld, mount a hilt, etc...) as opposed to just using what she gives you (get a whetstone, put some cord around the narrow part to get a hilt and there you have a druidic weapon).

A sickle is still a product of a smith, who has to get the ore, melt it and hammer it into a blade, then mount a hilt, but it is handwaved because druids in literature have always used the sickle, due to their connection to the agricultural world, nature, herb collection etc...

I would personally not allow anything more than a "simple weapon" to a druid character. If he has a, I can always retort that he can switch to kodiak bear and tear orcs apart, while having goblins for snacks. Hell, with the natural spellcasting he can even shoot lightning bolts WHILE in the shape of a bear :)

urbanpirate
2010-05-27, 10:37 PM
Coming from the RBGB boxed sets (2nd edition, I miss you!) I would say that the scimitar is a bit out of place. The spirit of the rule, at least, indicated that druids should shun elaborate, man made artifacts. All that can be contrived by means of gathering simple materials and basic craftsmanship should be OK. There was back then a contradiction in terms of the material. Druids (who were basically 9th level True Neutral clerics) were forbidden from wearing and touching any metal, as it was something "dead". Now, to me, stone and bones are as dead (or as alive) as any piece of ore or any other alloy, and I do not see how a zweihander made of magic daedric glass and wicked spellcraft is more OK to a guardian of nature than a sickle, a scimitar or a chainmail. I guess it has to do with some ways of "altering" a product of mother nature (collect the ore, pattern weld, mount a hilt, etc...) as opposed to just using what she gives you (get a whetstone, put some cord around the narrow part to get a hilt and there you have a druidic weapon).

A sickle is still a product of a smith, who has to get the ore, melt it and hammer it into a blade, then mount a hilt, but it is handwaved because druids in literature have always used the sickle, due to their connection to the agricultural world, nature, herb collection etc...

I would personally not allow anything more than a "simple weapon" to a druid character. If he has a, I can always retort that he can switch to kodiak bear and tear orcs apart, while having goblins for snacks. Hell, with the natural spellcasting he can even shoot lightning bolts WHILE in the shape of a bear :)


sickle has a place in real world druid lore and legend, more as tool than weapon.
scimitar is just freakin cool.

Ossian
2010-05-28, 04:29 AM
sickle has a place in real world druid lore and legend, more as tool than weapon.
scimitar is just freakin cool.

:smallsmile: indeed it is. It slices just fine. Still, it kinda implies you are pout there to slice things...

Now, a druid is supposed to be "Neutral" (again, that is how it was in the 2nd edition Green Box) and out there to guard and protect nature and life, choosing more often than not to save a tree instead of a human. The Na'vi from Avatar would be some kind of combat oriented druidesque types (well, apart from spellcasting). Panoramix in the Asterix series is a druid. Merlin, sometimes, was referred to as a druid.

At the end of the day, one plays the games that are fun to play. So if RAW you can give a glaive full of spikes and chains to your druids, and paint the walls red with blood, arrrh! be me guest mate!

Drascin
2010-05-28, 05:47 AM
You don't typically need armor on them, unless you have pretty dangerous crops :smalltongue:

Such as, say, Vampire Squash.

Hands up those who got the reference :smallbiggrin:

Greenish
2010-05-28, 06:01 AM
Panoramix in the Asterix series is a druid.In English, he's called Getafix.

Simba
2010-05-28, 06:16 AM
In English, he's called Getafix.

Miraculix in German, Magicoturmix in Hungarian :)

Ossian
2010-05-28, 07:27 AM
Miraculix in German, Magicoturmix in Hungarian :)

A text book ROTFL case! Get-a-fix for a potion brewing druid. This is absolutely priceless. Thanks for sharing it :smallsmile:

Simba
2010-05-28, 07:34 AM
A text book ROTFL case! Get-a-fix for a potion brewing druid. This is absolutely priceless. Thanks for sharing it :smallsmile:

Magicoturmix means magical (milk)shake...not bad, either. But get-a-fix is fantastic!

katans
2010-05-28, 07:56 AM
Those are masterwork, does not count.

Only the first picture displays a masterwork weapon.

2nd picture presents a typical arabian saif.
The two middle swords in the 3rd pic are absolutely standard-issue turkish kilijs.
4th pic is a standard-issue Cossack shashka.