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View Full Version : Impact [d20] [Spicing Up Combat?]



Xallace
2010-05-25, 08:51 PM
Edit: This is marked simply as [d20] since it should work out for 3.0, 3.5, maybe even 4E. I'm using it for d20 Modern, personally.

HP doesn't make for the most cinematic fights. No matter how much you pound 'em, creatures just don't take any penalties from sustained damage until they drop to 0 (or less, in some cases). In an attempt to make weapon brawls a bit more interesting, I came up with this mechanism. It's pretty simple, as far as homebrew goes.


Impact

Under this variant certain powerful attacks have "impact," or a temporary effect in addition to hit point damage. Impact triggers when your weapon's base damage die turns up as its maximum possible result, not including bonus damage from enhancements or class features or the like. For example, if a longsword's base 1d8 turns up as 8 (before modifiers), impact is triggered. A critical hit automatically triggers impact, even if max damage isn't rolled. Impact triggers even if the damage is reduced in some way, such as through damage reduction.

You cannot trigger impact against a creature two or more size categories larger than you.

When impact is triggered, roll 1d6 and compare to the chart for the weapon's damage type.

Bludgeoning and Non-Lethal
{table=head]Die Result | Impact Effect
1-2 | Rattled: Target is a little rattled by the hit, but otherwise unharmed. They take a -2 penalty to Armor Class until the end of their next turn. Multiple instances of this effect stack.
3-4 | Knocked Back: As Rattled, but the target is also pushed one square away from you, and you may choose to enter the vacated square. If the target cannot be pushed (such as if there is a wall behind them), they simply drop prone.
5 | Knocked Prone: As Rattled, but the target is also knocked prone in their square.
6 | Dazed: The target is dazed until the end of their next turn.[/table]

Piercing and Slashing
{table=head]Die Result | Impact Effect
1-2 | Sliced: Target is pierced superficially by the hit, but otherwise unharmed. They take a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of their next turn. Multiple instances of this effect stack.
3-4 | Driven Back: As Sliced, but the target is also pushed one square away from you, and you may choose to enter the vacated square. If the target cannot be pushed (such as if there is a wall behind them), they simply drop prone.
5 | Bleeding: As Sliced, but the target's speed is halved until the end of their next turn.
6 | Dazed: The target is dazed until the end of their next turn.[/table]

If the target creature is immune to critical hits, instead roll on the following table:

Immune to Criticals
{table=head]Die Result | Impact Effect
1-3 | Knocked Back: The target is pushed one square away from you, and you may choose to enter the vacated square. If the target cannot be pushed (such as if there is a wall behind them), they simply drop prone.
4-5 | Knocked Prone: The target is knocked prone in their square.
6 | Staggered: The target is flat-footed until the end of its next turn.[/table]

Now, the point really isn't to "fix" weaponeers, obviously. I just want to give a small reward for particularly powerful hits, not to mention a bit of help visualizing the fight as its going on.

What do you think?

Siosilvar
2010-05-25, 09:38 PM
Helps low-die weapons more than high-die. Makes sense, actually. You'd see more "dirty fighting" going on in unarmed combat or a knife fight than, say, a duel with longswords.

Would a greatsword have to roll a 6 on both dice?

arguskos
2010-05-26, 12:46 AM
Would a greatsword have to roll a 6 on both dice?
The max possible roll for a greatsword is 12, so that seems likely, yes. It does actually seem to shaft multi-die weapons somewhat, but that's fine I guess, since they tend to be good anyways.

I do dislike that the top results are Dazed, among the most powerful status conditions in the game. Perhaps dropping that to stun or something less absurdly good?

Apalala
2010-05-26, 01:07 AM
So halflings hurling shurikens become debuffers now?

It's a neat idea, but it does create some perverse incentives. Rather than tie it to the damage roll, how about you roll it into the attack roll.

For instance, you could go by how much your attack roll exceeds their AC.

Bludgeoning would be thus:
Attack Exceeds Impact Effect
3-6 Rattled: Target is a little rattled by the hit, but otherwise unharmed. They take a -2 penalty to Armor Class until the end of their next turn. Multiple instances of this effect stack.
7-10 Knocked Back: As Rattled, but the target is also pushed one square away from you, and you may choose to enter the vacated square. If the target cannot be pushed (such as if there is a wall behind them), they simply drop prone.
11-14 Knocked Prone: As Rattled, but the target is also knocked prone in their square.
15+ Dazed: The target is dazed until the end of their next turn.

This has the added effect of giving additional value to AC past the point when an enemy is going to hit you on a 2 anyways, or rather punishing those that entirely neglect it.

Hyooz
2010-05-26, 01:48 AM
This kind of mechanic will be hard to balance because, as has been said, this makes shurikens far more likely to cause these effects than anything else. It is a neat idea, but the fact is a barbarian swinging an axe will have a much harder time knocking someone down or whatever than a commoner throwing a rock.

Problem is, most methods of determining when these trigger will be just as tricky to balance. Compared to AC might be one of the better ways to go, (anytime you exceed their AC by X amount, roll the die) but that still leaves open silly things (course, knocking a guy over because you hit him square in the temple with a rock or something would be fine.)

The effects seem fine on their own. Consider a new trigger mechanism, though.

Ashtagon
2010-05-26, 01:54 AM
Can I wield a diminutive dagger, deal 1 hp damage (plus my Strength bonus, magic bonus, flametongue bonus, etc), and get this extra status effect each round without fail?

lesser_minion
2010-05-26, 09:41 AM
I do dislike that the top results are Dazed, among the most powerful status conditions in the game. Perhaps dropping that to stun or something less absurdly good?

Wait... stun is worse than dazed.

Dazed: no actions, but not considered helpless, and retains dex to AC.
Stunned: no actions, no dex bonus to AC, additional -2 to AC.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-05-26, 02:06 PM
You might want to put in some adjustment for size of target, too - otherwise your well-thrown rock will be able to knock the Tarrasque prone.

Xallace
2010-05-26, 02:07 PM
So halflings hurling shurikens become debuffers now?

That's actually a really good point... The attack roll idea works better mechanically than the damage idea, but I feel like it has its own problems. For instance, if a character rolls minimum damage, it doesn't feel like a particularly hard hit; even if the attack roll was really high.

Maybe if only certain weapons caused impact? Bludgeoning weapons, high damage piercing/slashing weapons, and unarmed strikes?


Would a greatsword have to roll a 6 on both dice?

Yep!

Edit:
You might want to put in some adjustment for size of target, too - otherwise your well-thrown rock will be able to knock the Tarrasque prone.

That's also a good point. Cannot be greater than one size category larger than you... although there could be a feat chain for the monster-hunting types.

Siosilvar
2010-05-26, 04:52 PM
To fix the shuriken problem, maybe have the effects based off of damage dealt. So your shuriken, although they do get one of the effects 50% of the time, ALWAYS get the worst result.


Trigger off of max damage or crits as normally.
(optional) Unarmed strikes get +1d6 on effective damage, but only for the table.
If your unarmed strike damage is larger than normal for your size (by, for example, being a monk), then you trigger Impact on any damage roll greater than the normal maximum.

{table=head]Damage Total|Effect|
2-11|Rattled|Target takes a -2 penalty to hit for 1 round.
12-16|Shaken|Target takes a -2 penalty to hit and saving throws for 1 round. Not a fear effect.
17-21|Sickened|Target takes a -2 penalty to hit, damage, and saving throws for 1 round.
22-25|Staggered|Target may take only one action next turn.
26-30|Nauseated|Target may take only one move action next turn.
31-35|Dazed|Target may take no actions next turn.
36+|Stunned|Target may take no actions next turn, drops everything held, and takes a -2 penalty to AC.[/table]

EDIT: I just noticed that I didn't include prone/knockback. Ah well.

EDIT2: Changed numbers on the table. Base weapon damage counts double.

d2 weapon: 50% chance, 4 + STR + bonus damage
d3 weapon: 33% chance; 6 + STR + bonus damage
d4 weapon: 25% chance; 8 + STR + bonus damage
d6 weapon: 17% chance; 12 + STR + bonus damage
d8 weapon: 13% chance; 16 + STR + bonus damage
d10 weapon: 10% chance; 20 + STR + bonus damage
d12 weapon: 8% chance; 24 + STR + bonus damage

2d4 weapon: 6% chance; 16 + STR + bonus damage
2d4 (either counts): 43% chance; 10-16 + STR + bonus
2d6 weapon: 3% chance; 24 + STR + bonus damage
2d6 (either counts): 31% chance; 14-24 + STR + bonus

Knaight
2010-05-26, 05:03 PM
Hmm. Take a look at the Shifts system in my Sig, it has another way to handle something like this, and if you take it, and just give say, half a dozen to each character as a distinctive fighting style instead of using them as feats, you get the same effect, with more diverse characters, implement fighting styles more, and don't have the effect where stuff like the 1d2 crusader gets yet more powerful.

Xallace
2010-05-27, 12:55 PM
Thinking out loud:

The easiest way for a non-d20M game might be just that if you take more damage from a weapon attack than your Constitution score (or Constitution Score + 4 or something), impact is triggered.

Alternatively, the attack roll idea might be the way to go, but with some small modifications. Using Knaight's "Shifts" idea would make hitting damage targets easier, but a modified version where every 4 points above AC raises the minimum damage roll by 1... would probably slow down the game.

Impact is kind-of a "mini-crit," so maybe there's an "Impact range" on the attack die for each weapon? Generally a little larger than the critical threat range, maybe by only a couple points.

Another way might involve a Fortitude Save against the damage dealt, but that's extra rolling and at that point it's just a modified version of the Injury system... although there's nothing wrong with the latter...