Just who is Malack a high priest of?

[pendell]

The reason I ask is that Tiamat is a western god. Of Dragons.

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that Malack is a cleric of Tiamat. If so, I reckon the wheels are going to come off this happy families reunion just as soon as Malack communes with his deity and gets some idea of who Vaarsuvius is.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[hamishspence]

Neither of the two deities on Malack's altar look like Tiamat:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html

Though it's possible he's devoted to the whole western pantheon, with those two being shown because they are the heads of the pantheon.

[The-Mage-King]

Neither of the two deities on Malack's altar look like Tiamat:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html

Though it's possible he's devoted to the whole western pantheon, with those two being shown because they are the heads of the pantheon.

And his statement 'I have completed my offering to the gods' fits with that...

[DaveMcW]

The fiends paid hundreds of good dragon corpses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) to stop Tiamat from messing with V.

[Darcy]

I thought Marduk was the head of the Western pantheon though- that's some lion dude.

[Kish]

The fiends paid hundreds of good dragon corpses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) to stop Tiamat from messing with V.
No, they promised hundreds of good dragon deaths to stop Tiamat from killing them (the fiends) immediately.

[pendell]

The fiends paid hundreds of good dragon corpses (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0668.html) to stop Tiamat from messing with V.

Lessee .. Tiamat's LE, right? First plane of Nine Hells? Then she might keep her word. That doesn't mean she can't find ways to make V's life a living hell without contravening the letter of her agreement. I'm also curious as to whether an agreement to lay off V would also apply to V's companions.

At the very least, 'agreeing not to kill a genocide' is not the same as 'must extend all possible assistance to their quest'. V and co. might get kicked out of the city with nothing to show for the journey, though I doubt it.

And regardless of Tiamat feels about it, I wouldn't give two cents for V's life or his companions if Malack figures out that he has before him the world's greatest dragon-murderer EVER in history.



Respectfully,

Brian P.

[factotum]

No, they promised hundreds of good dragon deaths to stop Tiamat from killing them (the fiends) immediately.

I don't think there's enough evidence in the linked strip to say either way, to be honest. They clearly cut SOME sort of deal with Tiamat, but apart from the clause that they have to kill loads of Good dragons we have no idea what its terms were.

[Windup]

Q: Just who is Malack a high priest of?
A: No one knows yet.

But that won't stop anyone from having 50 pages of worthless speculation. And after literally every deity in D&D has been listed, the one person who turns out to have coincidentally been correct will act like they're a genius.

[tomandtish]

I don't think there's enough evidence in the linked strip to say either way, to be honest. They clearly cut SOME sort of deal with Tiamat, but apart from the clause that they have to kill loads of Good dragons we have no idea what its terms were.

Agreed. Without knowing the specific wording, we can't say V is safe for sure. And even if she did promise to take no action against V, there are plenty of ways around that. Now could be a good time for her oracle to send minions to take vengence against a certain halfling ranger who killed him. And if V happens to get killed in the crossfire, oh well, wrong place, wrong time.

[Jair Barik]

Well Rich seems to be having a joke with Tiamat. On the one hand he uses the classic D&D Tiamat as seen in any book looking at dragons in detail, the TV cartoon and other merchandise. But at the same time Rich is using 'classical' mythology (namely Chinese zodiac, Norse deities, Greek Gods and the pantheon of the Babylonian mythology. Within babylonian myth Tiamat is a primordial goddess who has nothing to do with lots of dragon heads in varying colours. Thus Rich is playing off a joke about things being 'older than the Simpsons' (or whatever the appropriate terminology is when used with reference to D&D). So yeah likely alack is a high priest of a member of the Babylonian pantheon or the pantheon in general.

[sihnfahl]

Agreed. Without knowing the specific wording, we can't say V is safe for sure.
I believe V is safe from Tiamat and her followers as long as V is seen as 'important' towards the Plan to take down the Good Gods.

Once that importance fades, so does the protection it offers.

[Bongos]

Well, which deity has a dog's lion's face, a tail, horns, wings, fire in one hand and his hippy chic girlfriend's hand in the other?

That's your answer right there, and it ain't Tiamat!

[Closak]

This brings me back to the question of how one is to make V pay.
Because really, figuring out a way to punish V that is severe enough for the atrocity commited is going to be difficult :smallannoyed:

So i propose this.
Make an epic spell that traps the target in eternal suffering, both physically and mentally, makes the target feel all the pain and suffering in the whole universe, then AMPLIFY that several times over.
Now trap the target in that state for the rest of eternity, until reality itself collapses from old age.
While we are at it, might as well let a bunch of rape-happy maniacs have their way with him/her.

That should do it.
Honestly, i am really hoping something like that happens to V.

[Kish]

I am pretty certain your hope is vain. Also...as totally unsympathetic to Vaarsuvius as I am, still creepy.

Aim lower: Hope s/he dies and goes to Hades permanently, or, if you prefer, gets obliterated by the Snarl. Either of those, I would say, has a real chance of happening, and permanent consignment to Hades would be as close to just for Vaarsuvius as it could ever be for anyone.

[Jair Barik]

Nergal and Laz. There answered.
Seems the best fit from what i looked at. Lions head? check. Female consort Laz always pictured with him? check. Evil God of the underworld with thematic bonds to fire? Check.

[AstralFire]

This brings me back to the question of how one is to make V pay.
Because really, figuring out a way to punish V that is severe enough for the atrocity commited is going to be difficult :smallannoyed:

So i propose this.
Make an epic spell that traps the target in eternal suffering, both physically and mentally, makes the target feel all the pain and suffering in the whole universe, then AMPLIFY that several times over.
Now trap the target in that state for the rest of eternity, until reality itself collapses from old age.
While we are at it, might as well let a bunch of rape-happy maniacs have their way with him/her.

That should do it.
Honestly, i am really hoping something like that happens to V.

...As unsympathetic as I am to V, what the hell.

[JonestheSpy]

Nergal and Laz. There answered.
Seems the best fit from what i looked at. Lions head? check. Female consort Laz always pictured with him? check. Evil God of the underworld with thematic bonds to fire? Check.

Hm, interesting. The crayon flashbacks suggested that Tiamat was the only evil deity of the Western Pantheon. Each seemed to have just one - Loki for the North, Rat for the South.

Of course, Nergal could be an underworld deity who's not actually evil, like the classical Greek Hades. On the other hand, the black energy visuals that accompany Malack's spell certainly suggest evil divine power.

[slayerx]

And his statement 'I have completed my offering to the gods' fits with that...
not really considering their was a statue of two godS... so saying "gods" does not at all imply the whole pantheon as opposed to just those two

[Closak]

...As unsympathetic as I am to V, what the hell.

That's what you get for commiting genocide.

Being a hypocrite certainly helps too.

"Oh look at me, it's okay when i go around killing other people's families, they should just sit down and take it, but if anyone ever tries to kill MY family all hell will break loose"

Make up your mind already dammit, is it or is it not okay to break into people's homes and kill them just like that?

If it's okay for you then it damn well was for the ABD as well, to bad you are to much of an idiot to accept that.
Therefor, you burn for all of eternity!

[sihnfahl]

Hm, interesting. The crayon flashbacks suggested that Tiamat was the only evil deity of the Western Pantheon. Each seemed to have just one - Loki for the North, Rat for the South.
Which crayon flashback?

[Darcy]

The Crayons Of Time (starting #273), though at first we only saw a few representatives from each. I believe we've seen quite a few more characters from the Northern pantheon than just those that appear there. We also see Hades later on. We really haven't had an opportunity to see more than a couple members of the Western pantheon. I'm sure it's more than just Tiamat, Marduk, and... Sarpanit?

[Wulfang]

That's what you get for commiting genocide.

Being a hypocrite certainly helps too.

"Oh look at me, it's okay when i go around killing other people's families, they should just sit down and take it, but if anyone ever tries to kill MY family all hell will break loose"

Make up your mind already dammit, is it or is it not okay to break into people's homes and kill them just like that?

If it's okay for you then it damn well was for the ABD as well, to bad you are to much of an idiot to accept that.
Therefor, you burn for all of eternity!

Just as it wasn't ok for Vaarsuvius to kill the young black dragon, it wasn't ok for the ABD to kill V's family. Just because s/he did the same in the past doesn't mean s/he doesn't have the right to defend hir family.

Now, casting Familicide is where it stopped being in hir right and it became outright Evil.

And now, let's return to what the thread really is about instead of derailing it with creepy V hate. So yeah, Nergal.

[Tass]

Which crayon flashback?

Start of Darkness

[Snake-Aes]

On this thread: Our usual elf hater is hating elves in the hopes to bone the fat ditz dragon, people are showing off gods names and people are whining about the first two chaps.


Well, I guess that's it. We don't know who those gods are yet. For all we know, they may be avatars of the Loose Pixel.

[Bongos]

Nergal and Laz. There answered.
Seems the best fit from what i looked at. Lions head? check. Female consort Laz always pictured with him? check. Evil God of the underworld with thematic bonds to fire? Check.
Looks like you are onto something there.

[doodthedud]

He is the high priest of........THE DOT!!

[Dr.Epic]

Neither of the two deities on Malack's altar look like Tiamat:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html

Though it's possible he's devoted to the whole western pantheon, with those two being shown because they are the heads of the pantheon.

Is that a wolf man with wings holding a head standing next to a hot chick?

[hamishspence]

Looks like it.

[Darcy]

I think he's holding fire... but otherwise yes.

[doodthedud]

Wouldn't he be a high priest to whoever the one in power wants? Since he's a mercenary high priest?

I'd imagine he just follows most of at least one pantheon and tries to be very generalist with it.

[SPoD]

The last thread on this subject came up with Nergal and Ereshkigal as the most likely choices (though Laz certainly fits for the woman, too). The wolf man is more of a lion man if you compare his head to the lion head of Trigak the Chimera (and Argent the wolf), and his tail is a lion's tail, too.

[Darklord Xavez]

Q: Just who is Malack a high priest of?
A: No one knows yet.

But that won't stop anyone from having 50 pages of worthless speculation. And after literally every deity in D&D has been listed, the one person who turns out to have coincidentally been correct will act like they're a genius.

Agreed. Many people on the internet are like that.
-Xavez

[Dr.Epic]

I think he's holding fire... but otherwise yes.

So you're right.

[lord_khaine]

Lessee .. Tiamat's LE, right? First plane of Nine Hells? Then she might keep her word. That doesn't mean she can't find ways to make V's life a living hell without contravening the letter of her agreement. I'm also curious as to whether an agreement to lay off V would also apply to V's companions.

At the very least, 'agreeing not to kill a genocide' is not the same as 'must extend all possible assistance to their quest'. V and co. might get kicked out of the city with nothing to show for the journey, though I doubt it.

And regardless of Tiamat feels about it, I wouldn't give two cents for V's life or his companions if Malack figures out that he has before him the world's greatest dragon-murderer EVER in history.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You are forgetting something, no sane person who is not a very epic caster will mess with the hero who killed, what was it, 25% of all black dragons?


This brings me back to the question of how one is to make V pay.
Because really, figuring out a way to punish V that is severe enough for the atrocity commited is going to be difficult


I think instead we should try and find a way to celebrate the greatest dragon-slaying hero of all time.
Personaly, i would bake him a cake.

[Luzahn]

The issue, as I see it, is that "High Priest" was never stated to be his title pertaining to his god. More likely, it only refers to his title in the Empire.

[hamishspence]

You are forgetting something, no sane person who is not a very epic caster will mess with the hero who killed, what was it, 25% of all black dragons?

Unless they are aware that the person responsible, is no longer that powerful.

Redcloak catches on to the Soul Splices pretty quickly- it's possible that others may know about them.

Or, Tiamat, knowing that the IFCC were responsible for the splices that gave V the power to do that, also knows the splices are ended- and has passed the info on to her followers.

[lord_khaine]

RC was only able to do that because he actualy observed epic V in action, that it was done and how is specific information that i dont think a lot of people are aware off.

I also dont think Tiamat can just randomly pass information off to her followers like that, or else there will also not be anything to stop the elven gods from warning V.

[Luzahn]

With the whole Darth V thing, would the elven gods even want to warn him?

[slayerx]

That's what you get for commiting genocide.

Being a hypocrite certainly helps too.

"Oh look at me, it's okay when i go around killing other people's families, they should just sit down and take it, but if anyone ever tries to kill MY family all hell will break loose"

Make up your mind already dammit, is it or is it not okay to break into people's homes and kill them just like that?

If it's okay for you then it damn well was for the ABD as well, to bad you are to much of an idiot to accept that.
Wow no...
V was willing to face his fate at the hands of momma dragon... he was not going to deny his crimes and was ready to die

When the ABD chose to kill his children is when it crossed the line... eye for an eye is NOT justice, it's just plain vengeance. Under NO circumstances should V's family have to pay for V's crimes; they are innocent people who have committed no sin of their own... saying they can be targeted because of their association with V is like saying that they are guilty of being BORN. V's sins are his own and he should pay them himself...

not to mention soul binding them and denying passage into the after life for all eternity is actually worse than what V had done... furthermore V never claimed that what he did was "right"

though ofcourse V crossed a new line with familcide

[Leecros]

Wow no...
V was willing to face his fate at the hands of momma dragon... he was not going to deny his crimes and was ready to die

When the ABD chose to kill his children is when it crossed the line... eye for an eye is NOT justice, it's just plain vengeance. Under NO circumstances should V's family have to pay for V's crimes; they are innocent people who have committed no sin of their own... saying they can be targeted because of their association with V is like saying that they are guilty of being BORN. V's sins are his own and he should pay them himself...

not to mention soul binding them and denying passage into the after life for all eternity is actually worse than what V had done... furthermore V never claimed that what he did was "right"

though ofcourse V crossed a new line with familcide

hold on...let me draw like eight lines on the ground for ABD and V to cross over and see who crosses over more lines.

as for Tiamat doing something about V. I'm pretty sure the IFCC fixed that. if there was any repercussions via Tiamat i'm pretty sure we would have seen them by now. I mean it has been 2-4 weeks since the whole familicide incident. Plenty of time to form an angry draconic mob. Of course Tiamat could do something more elaborate than that, but 2-4 weeks would still be plenty of time.


as for the topic: Clearly Malack is the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack who's the High Priest of Malack...etc

[Aldrakan]

Hm, interesting. The crayon flashbacks suggested that Tiamat was the only evil deity of the Western Pantheon. Each seemed to have just one - Loki for the North, Rat for the South.


Was that the evil deities or just the ones who had sympathy for the Dark One? Maybe Nergal just doesn't care about goblins, I don't think we've seen any on this continent.

btw, how did this get derailed into a Darth V discussion? There is no connection whatsoever.

[Leecros]

btw, how did this get derailed into a Darth V discussion? There is no connection whatsoever.

just mentioning Tiamat is more than enough to bring that out...And Tiamat was mentioned in the first post...

[pendell]

Leecros is correct. I am the OP, and this *started* as a Darth V post.

Item: The ruler of the EOB is a red dragon.
Item: Malack is a high priest of at least one god of the western pantheon,
and moreover seems to think very highly of family ties.
Item: Malack's divine magic is black energy , which suggests he serves
an evil god.
Item: Tiamat is a member of the western pantheon.
Item: Vaarsuvius has indiscriminately killed a LOT of dragons -- who worshipped that evil goddess -- who were bound by ties of family.

Put ingredients into a pot and stir. What comes out?

Well, I dunno yet. But it does give one possible way that this whole 'happy families' reunion could end in a hurry.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Phoenix Xul]

He's a MERCENARY. If someone is paying you thousands of gp, you change deities pretty quickly. He's probably been high priest for most or all of the western pantheon at some time, if not all now.

[Prowl]

He's a MERCENARY. If someone is paying you thousands of gp, you change deities pretty quickly. He's probably been high priest for most or all of the western pantheon at some time, if not all now.

A mercenary may change his paymaster on the turn of a dime, but for a cleric to change his diety is no small matter, since his diety grants him his power.

More likely he has kept the same diety (or dieties) as the object of worship, and successive employers have felt his power at their command was of more consequence than his diety of choice.

[snikrept]

I, too, was a bit mystified on reading that installment where Malack is seen making offerings - that a presumably evil aligned lizardfolk priest of a pantheon that has been explicitly stated to contain Tiamat, traditional patron of lizardfolk, was apparently not including her in the offering. Hope that's a plot point later.

[hamishspence]

Semuanya is the traditional patron of lizardfolk in the MM.

However, he may not exist in OoTS- given that (in SoD) it's strongly suggested that there were no gods of the humanoid races like lizardfolk, until The Dark One ascended (and his speciality is goblins.)

The elves didn't start out with deities of their own- theirs were mortals that eventually ascended.

This suggests that races like orcs, kobolds, lizardfolk, etc have to make do with the pantheons of the "civilized" races.

[PonceAlyosha]

Perhaps it is Mithra?

[hamishspence]

Was there a Mithra in the Babylonian/Sumerian pantheon?

I don't remember that name in the Dragon Magazine version of the pantheon.

[PonceAlyosha]

Was there a Mithra in the Babylonian/Sumerian pantheon?

I got turned around, Mithra is Zoroastrian. It's probably Ningirsu. http://www.pantheon.org/articles/n/ningirsu.html

[hamishspence]

Good point- I suppose its possible that the OoTS pantheon might draw from an eclectic collection of typical deities of the region.

I suspect though, that it will be the earlier deities- Marduk, Tiamat, Nergal, Ishtar, and so on- ones who have been included in D&D before.

[Icedaemon]

Right...

Back on topic, Nergal seems to be the most likely deity used here. An antagonistic sun god is a lovely idea, used not nearly frequently enough in roleplaying games.

[Procyonpi]

Q: Just who is Malack a high priest of?
A: No one knows yet.

But that won't stop anyone from having 50 pages of worthless speculation. And after literally every deity in D&D has been listed, the one person who turns out to have coincidentally been correct will act like they're a genius.

This post is Epic win.

[Dark Matter]

Actually that should be "just who or what is Malack a high priest of"?

He doesn't have to be the servant of some god. He could just worship a force or concept or something.

[Claudius Maximus]

Actually that should be "just who or what is Malack a high priest of"?

Actually, it should be "Of just whom or what is Malack the high priest?" Remember that "who" declines with case, and that ending sentences with prepositions is something up with which grammarians will not put.

Nobody really talks like that though.

[Luzahn]

Actually, it should be "Of just whom or what is Malack the high priest?" Remember that "who" declines with case, and that ending sentences with prepositions is something up with which grammarians will not put.

Nobody really talks like that though.

grammar no good for barbarian.

[Bavarian itP]

Obviously, he's the high priest of Vaarsuvius the Dragonslayer, Protector of Innocents, the LG lesser deity of justice, freedom and unadultered goodness, or shorter: of dragonasskicking.

[CrimsonAngel]

Neither of the two deities on Malack's altar look like Tiamat:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0718.html

Though it's possible he's devoted to the whole western pantheon, with those two being shown because they are the heads of the pantheon.

Maybe he warships Egyptian gods. The wolf could be anubis and I don't know who the chick could be. Maybe i'll brush up on my egyptology.

[Draz74]

OK, from the crowd saying "we don't and can't know," is there anyone who actually has a reason to doubt that Malack's idol is Nergal? Because that seems a pretty perfect match to me.

I mean, yeah, technically, we don't know ... but I think we can probably figure it out "beyond reasonable doubt." It's like saying the goat-boy with pan pipes here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html) might not actually be Pan.


Actually, it should be "Of just whom or what is Malack the high priest?" Remember that "who" declines with case, and that ending sentences with prepositions is something up with which grammarians will not put.

Nobody really talks like that though.

One grammar nitpick deserves another. The adverb "just" shouldn't split the "of whom" interrogatory. "Just of whom or what ...?" would be most correct, AFAIK.

[Gamgee]

This brings me back to the question of how one is to make V pay.
Because really, figuring out a way to punish V that is severe enough for the atrocity commited is going to be difficult :smallannoyed:

So i propose this.
Make an epic spell that traps the target in eternal suffering, both physically and mentally, makes the target feel all the pain and suffering in the whole universe, then AMPLIFY that several times over.
Now trap the target in that state for the rest of eternity, until reality itself collapses from old age.
While we are at it, might as well let a bunch of rape-happy maniacs have their way with him/her.

That should do it.
Honestly, i am really hoping something like that happens to V.
Miko Justice.

[KoboldRevenge]

he's the high priest of me the god of unimportant plot devices