[3.5] Psionic Base Class Suggestions, please help

[Ferrin]

Allright, so I'm thinking of a way to make a somewhat balanced(tier 2 - 3) Full manifesting base class. The attributes it will use are as follows; "Bonus power points are based off of Inteligence. You need a minimum Wisdom score of 10 + Spells level to manifest a power. Save DC's are based off of Charisma." Some of the class features will be about replacing one mental stat requirement with another, or gaining a different benefit alltogether. That will be available at first level, and perhaps some other levels. (Obviously within the first few levels, seeing as it's a main manifesting stat)

MAD as hell, but that's part of what I envision. The idea is that the powers the class has available every day come from his dreams. A big part of the class features should be about clairsentience. I want to hear suggestions for class features, what ideas you can think of.

You can say it's because of my lack of ingenuity, but- Wait, that's mostly true. Anyway, I'd like this class to be more of a community effort, seeing as my previous attempts to create classes are either to powerfull, to complex, or want to do to much.(Or are good as they are because no-one replies, but that's something I tell myself as I cry myself to sleep. :smallbiggrin:)

[Volthawk]

Heh, I could see this having versions of other class's stuff. Like Wis to AC, or Factotum stuff.

[Ferrin]

The inspiration per encounter mechanic could work for several abilities, the wisdom to AC could be fluffed as some kind of foresight. I was thinking of some more caster-y abilities though. Hmm... Have to think about the inspiration thing.

[Volthawk]

The inspiration per encounter mechanic could work for several abilities, the wisdom to AC could be fluffed as some kind of foresight. I was thinking of some more caster-y abilities though. Hmm... Have to think about the inspiration thing.

Factotum could be used as inspiration (no pun intended) for new abilities. Maybe using it for a bit of augmentation?

[Ferrin]

Inspiration for metapsionic for example? Or some special augment options, good ideas. :smallbiggrin:

[Volthawk]

Inspiration for metapsionic for example? Or some special augment options, good ideas. :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, maybe to regain focus as a free/swift/immediate action?

[Ferrin]

Hmm, perhaps, I'd have to give it some kind of limit though. A free action once per round? I'd like to keep swift actions open and immediates for other things.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Here are a few suggestions:

* For simplicity, rely solely on Intelligence for manifesting.
* Let them substitute Intelligence to attack rolls in place of Strength or Dexterity.
* Let them add their Wisdom as an insight bonus to AC.
* Give them DR equal to their Wisdom modifier while psionically focused..
* Let them use Charisma to boost their spellcasting abilities, similar to a wilder or possibly with a mechanic similar to barbarian's rage.
* Give them extra power points per day specifically for metamagic, based on their Charisma modifier.

[Ferrin]

Here are a few suggestions:

* For simplicity, rely solely on Intelligence for manifesting.
* Let them substitute Intelligence to attack rolls in place of Strength or Dexterity.
* Let them add their Wisdom as an insight bonus to AC.
* Give them DR equal to their Wisdom modifier while psionically focused..
* Let them use Charisma to boost their spellcasting abilities, similar to a wilder or possibly with a mechanic similar to barbarian's rage.
* Give them extra power points per day specifically for metamagic, based on their Charisma modifier.

1. I won't let them have just one manifesting ability score, at least two. Charisma could be dumped, but I'll watch what other suggestions people have.
2. I don't need to let them have anything that adds to any attack bonus, they won't be in the front lines, unless I think of some kind of 'path' that does it in a simple, enjoyable, and balanced way.
3. Wisdom as an insight bonus, available even when armored? Would need to be gained in a fairly high level, to avoid dips to much.
4. Damage reduction equal to there wisdom bonus? Please explain to me how you envision a person who gets mental powers through dreams be so resilient. Could be interesting and used in a different way.
5. Something to boost there manifester? I could, yes, but instead of making the powers stronger I'd let the cost be lower, with a minimum, and a penalty. Have to think about that. Would need to be distinctly different from how the other classes operate though.
6. That would be against what I want from this class, a class with options while retaining simplicity. Having a different power point pool to track would be counterproductive.

[Dexam]

Here's some ideas I had regarding this, building on the "dreams" idea stated in the OP. They're a bit unrefined at this stage, both I thought I'd throw them out there anyway.

The key class feature is Aspect of the Dreaming. At the start of each day, the character decides which Dream Aspect to apply for the day (i.e. what dreams they had the night before):
- Dreams of the Past: The character draws upon their past experiences and learning, and brings it to the fore in startling clarity. Character adds their Int modifier to attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of self-buff powers}. (i.e. the character fills a gish/skill-monkey role).
- Dreams of the Present: The character taps into the subconscious minds of those around them, to better aid them. Character adds their Wis modifier to AC and saving throws. Character can spend their Psionic Focus to add their Wis modifier to Aid Another checks instead of the usual +2. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of party-buff/heal powers}. (i.e. the character fills a healer/buffer/support role).
- Dreams of the Future: The character dreams glimpses of the future, and can use the force of their personality to shape it to their desire. Character adds their Cha modifier to damage-dealing powers (i.e. same as Warmage Edge). Character can spend their Psionic Focus to boost their manifester level by X amount (to be determined) a number of times per day equal to their Cha modifier +1. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of direct-damage/debuff powers}. (i.e. the character fills a blaster/debuffer/battlefield-controller role).

At higher levels, the character may switch between Dream Aspects a number of times per day; and/or utilise multiple aspects at once.

Just some ideas. Probably over-complicated or as unbalancing as all get-out, but what do expect for 5 minutes worth of thought? :smalltongue:

[Rithaniel]

Interesting Idea.


1. I won't let them have just one manifesting ability score, at least two. Charisma could be dumped, but I'll watch what other suggestions people have.
2. I don't need to let them have anything that adds to any attack bonus, they won't be in the front lines, unless I think of some kind of 'path' that does it in a simple, enjoyable, and balanced way.
3. Wisdom as an insight bonus, available even when armored? Would need to be gained in a fairly high level, to avoid dips to much.
4. Damage reduction equal to there wisdom bonus? Please explain to me how you envision a person who gets mental powers through dreams be so resilient. Could be interesting and used in a different way.
5. Something to boost there manifester? I could, yes, but instead of making the powers stronger I'd let the cost be lower, with a minimum, and a penalty. Have to think about that. Would need to be distinctly different from how the other classes operate though.
6. That would be against what I want from this class, a class with options while retaining simplicity. Having a different power point pool to track would be counterproductive.

Having more than one casting score is just irritating to play. It's not a matter of why the class is that way, or how many other ability scores you have, it's just a headache in book-keeping.
I don't see why a bonus to attack rolls wouldn't be acceptable. You wanted the class to have a sort of irratic sense, yes?
If a person is going to take a dip into a class for a bonus to AC, they are also going to buy a Monk's Belt, take a Dip into Battle Dancer (or whatever that class that gets Cha to AC is), and take a 2 level dip into Swordsage. You have no need to worry about AC dippers, their AC is already going to be high enough that the Tarassque will require a 20 to hit them. In those cases, no matter how much more they raise their AC, that 20 will still hit them.
There's any number of justifications for DR. Reason 1:Their head is always in the clouds. They don't notice when they are bleeding profusely.
Reason 2: When your powers stem from your own dreams, the belief that you have not sustained any damage actually over-rides reality.
Reason 3: They can pull energy out of the realm of dream-stuff, and cushion their body with it, making even the most grievious wounds seem like nothing more than a pinch.
Too many penalties make an ability useless. I'd say, sure, make the manifesting cost go down, but, either have a minimum cost, or enforce a penalty. Do both, and the class feature will not be used, and never be taken.
If you want "a class with options while retaining simplicity". You should have there be only one casting stat. I'm currently getting the impression that this class is intended to be irratic, personally.

[Ferrin]

Having more than one casting score is just irritating to play. It's not a matter of why the class is that way, or how many other ability scores you have, it's just a headache in book-keeping.
I don't see why a bonus to attack rolls wouldn't be acceptable. You wanted the class to have a sort of irratic sense, yes?
If a person is going to take a dip into a class for a bonus to AC, they are also going to buy a Monk's Belt, take a Dip into Battle Dancer (or whatever that class that gets Cha to AC is), and take a 2 level dip into Swordsage. You have no need to worry about AC dippers, their AC is already going to be high enough that the Tarassque will require a 20 to hit them. In those cases, no matter how much more they raise their AC, that 20 will still hit them.
There's any number of justifications for DR. Reason 1:Their head is always in the clouds. They don't notice when they are bleeding profusely.
Reason 2: When your powers stem from your own dreams, the belief that you have not sustained any damage actually over-rides reality.
Reason 3: They can pull energy out of the realm of dream-stuff, and cushion their body with it, making even the most grievious wounds seem like nothing more than a pinch.
Too many penalties make an ability useless. I'd say, sure, make the manifesting cost go down, but, either have a minimum cost, or enforce a penalty. Do both, and the class feature will not be used, and never be taken.
If you want "a class with options while retaining simplicity". You should have there be only one casting stat. I'm currently getting the impression that this class is intended to be irratic, personally.

1. I don't see how having mutiple abilties makes it annoying to play, I can understand optimize or finding items for it, but there really isn't much more to track other then which stat goes where or depending on the abilities I give it, see 6.
2. I didn't say it would be unacceptable, I said: "I don't need to let them have anything that adds to any attack bonus, they won't be in the front lines, unless I think of some kind of 'path' that does it in a simple, enjoyable, and balanced way." It's because I don't envision the class as a melee character, rather a controller, by 4e terms.
3. True enough, guess I don't have to think about that to much.
4. I like reason number 2 a lot, rest not so much.
5. Yes ofcourse, but I wasn't even thinking of how to do it back then.
6. I'll think about it, perhaps even giving it a choice at 1st level.



Here's some ideas I had regarding this, building on the "dreams" idea stated in the OP. They're a bit unrefined at this stage, both I thought I'd throw them out there anyway.

The key class feature is Aspect of the Dreaming. At the start of each day, the character decides which Dream Aspect to apply for the day (i.e. what dreams they had the night before):
- Dreams of the Past: The character draws upon their past experiences and learning, and brings it to the fore in startling clarity. Character adds their Int modifier to attack rolls, damage rolls, and skill checks. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of self-buff powers}. (i.e. the character fills a gish/skill-monkey role).
- Dreams of the Present: The character taps into the subconscious minds of those around them, to better aid them. Character adds their Wis modifier to AC and saving throws. Character can spend their Psionic Focus to add their Wis modifier to Aid Another checks instead of the usual +2. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of party-buff/heal powers}. (i.e. the character fills a healer/buffer/support role).
- Dreams of the Future: The character dreams glimpses of the future, and can use the force of their personality to shape it to their desire. Character adds their Cha modifier to damage-dealing powers (i.e. same as Warmage Edge). Character can spend their Psionic Focus to boost their manifester level by X amount (to be determined) a number of times per day equal to their Cha modifier +1. Character's powers for the day are selected from {list of direct-damage/debuff powers}. (i.e. the character fills a blaster/debuffer/battlefield-controller role).

At higher levels, the character may switch between Dream Aspects a number of times per day; and/or utilise multiple aspects at once.

Just some ideas. Probably over-complicated or as unbalancing as all get-out, but what do expect for 5 minutes worth of thought? :smalltongue:

Allright, that can work. It's a bit like the Chameleon but instead purely psionic, I like it.

[Zore]

The real problem with depending on the three mental abilities is thus,

assuming 25 pt buy

8
8
8 9?
8 12
8 16
8 16

Your physical stats will be non-existent at best which means both your HP and AC will suffer immensely. You are forced to have at least semi-high stats in two of the most useless and easily dumped stats (Int and Cha) and forced to practically dump the two most important for any character (Dex and Con). You won't hit as hard or be as durable as a Wizard unless you replace your reliance on physical stats entirely. You have the same MAD problems as a Monk actually save for a reliance on CHA instead of STR and unlike a Monk there is nothing like Weapon Finesse to let you dump your CHA. Even with AC coming from WIS, DEX is a tertiary stat at best and is not going to be too high.

[Ferrin]

The real problem with depending on the three mental abilities is thus,

assuming 25 pt buy

8
8
8 9?
8 12
8 16
8 16

Your physical stats will be non-existent at best which means both your HP and AC will suffer immensely. You are forced to have at least semi-high stats in two of the most useless and easily dumped stats (Int and Cha) and forced to practically dump the two most important for any character (Dex and Con). You won't hit as hard or be as durable as a Wizard unless you replace your reliance on physical stats entirely. You have the same MAD problems as a Monk actually save for a reliance on CHA instead of STR and unlike a Monk there is nothing like Weapon Finesse to let you dump your CHA. Even with AC coming from WIS, DEX is a tertiary stat at best and is not going to be too high.

I never play with less then 32 Point buy, but I see your point. Dual stat it is Int/Wis, with wisdom only being there for the extra PP.