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View Full Version : Metamagic Cost Reducers [3.5]



mobdrazhar
2010-05-26, 07:19 PM
Just curious as to what are the MM cost reducing ways in 3.5.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-05-26, 07:21 PM
Incantrix (PGtF)
Arcane Thesis (PHII IIRC)
Metamagic Spell Focus (Complete Mage or Complete Arcane)
Casting on other planes (some planes apply MM on the fly on similarly aligned spells, for example IIRC [Fire] spells are maximized and empowered on the elemental plane of fire)

Greenish
2010-05-26, 07:22 PM
Arcane Thesis lowers the spell level cost of all metamagic feats by one when applied to the selected spell.

Easy Metamagic from Dragon Magazine #325.

mobdrazhar
2010-05-26, 07:24 PM
don't know how i missed Arcane Thesis in PH2 :smallredface:

dextercorvia
2010-05-26, 07:25 PM
Easy Metamagic (Dragon I think)
Practical Metamagic (RoD)
Dweomerkeeper capstone (CD web enhancement)
Improved metamagic (epic feat)

Ultimate Magus,Divine metamagic, and one for the bards too allow alternate payment

Greenish
2010-05-26, 07:29 PM
don't know how i missed Arcane Thesis in PH2 :smallredface:For the best effect, combine with +0 metamagics, such as Invisible Spell and Energy Substitution.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-05-26, 07:30 PM
For the best effect, combine with +0 metamagics, such as Invisible Spell and Energy Substitution.

Ok... that is a bit evil don't you think Greenish?

Greenish
2010-05-26, 07:33 PM
Ok... that is a bit evil don't you think Greenish?You didn't notice what I did since I used Conceal Spellcasting and Invisible Spell. :smallcool:

mobdrazhar
2010-05-26, 07:34 PM
Ok... that is a bit evil don't you think Greenish?

Nothing wrong with evil... especially in my game as the DM has made all Players optimize (and then some) chars just keep keep up with what he throws at us. not that i'm complaining :smallbiggrin:

Dusk Eclipse
2010-05-26, 07:40 PM
Nothing wrong with evil... especially in my game as the DM has made all Players optimize (and then some) chars just keep keep up with what he throws at us. not that i'm complaining :smallbiggrin:

If that is the case... roll a Grey Elf (Dragonborn optional to counter CON loss) Wizard/Incantrix with arcane thesis on your favorite orb, unleash all hell and then some more (and if you are not in the mood for blasting... well there is always going GODBatman-mode

Greenish
2010-05-26, 07:42 PM
If that is the case... roll a Grey Elf (Dragonborn optional to counter CON loss)Dragonborn loses out here, if going all out. Four feats > +2 Con. *Does a dark chaos shuffle.*

Dusk Eclipse
2010-05-26, 07:45 PM
Dragonborn loses out here, if going all out. Four feats > +2 Con. *Does a dark chaos shuffle.*

OH forgot about that tasty little trick For the record I love cheese

mobdrazhar
2010-05-26, 07:47 PM
Four feats?

Edit: sorry... still fairly new to 3.5

Boci
2010-05-26, 07:48 PM
Four feats?

Martial weapon proficiencies with you swap for other feats. Dark chaos shuffle from FC I is the most common method.

Lateral
2010-05-26, 07:51 PM
You didn't notice what I did since I used Conceal Spellcasting and Invisible Spell. :smallcool:

Yeah... stack Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, Energy Sub (cold), Lord of the Uttercold, Heighten it zero levels, Relicguard Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Sudden (any), and BOOM! Fell Comet swarm in a 1st level slot at what cost? Doesn't affect nonliving things and is at -1 caster level, but does 1/2 negative energy damage, has Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, and has any MM feat on it.

Greenish
2010-05-26, 08:00 PM
Yeah... stack Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, Energy Sub (cold), Lord of the Uttercold, Heighten it zero levels, Relicguard Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Sudden (any), and BOOM! Fell Comet swarm in a 1st level slot at what cost? Doesn't affect nonliving things and is at -1 caster level, but does 1/2 negative energy damage, has Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, and has any MM feat on it.Conceal Spellcasting is a skill trick, so it doesn't do much. Heighten doesn't work with Arcane Thesis. You can't reduce the spell level below the spell's base level.

dextercorvia
2010-05-26, 08:01 PM
Yeah... stack Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, Energy Sub (cold), Lord of the Uttercold, Heighten it zero levels, Relicguard Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Sudden (any), and BOOM! Fell Comet swarm in a 1st level slot at what cost? Doesn't affect nonliving things and is at -1 caster level, but does 1/2 negative energy damage, has Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, and has any MM feat on it.

You might want to check the text/errata of Arcane Thesis. (except Heighten, new level can't be lower than original...)

Edit: Pirated!

Lateral
2010-05-26, 08:16 PM
It's "ninja'd". 'Pirated' makes no sense.

I WAS KIDDING!

Greenish
2010-05-26, 08:17 PM
It's "ninja'd". 'Pirated' makes no sense.We pirates do not "ninja"! :smallfurious:

Foryn Gilnith
2010-05-26, 08:45 PM
You mad. Pirates can ninja. It's what makes them superior to ninja, as ninja cannot pirate.

dextercorvia
2010-05-26, 10:43 PM
Yeah... stack Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, Energy Sub (cold), Lord of the Uttercold, Heighten it zero levels, Relicguard Spell, Sanctum Spell, and Sudden (any), and BOOM! Fell Comet swarm in a 1st level slot at what cost? Doesn't affect nonliving things and is at -1 caster level, but does 1/2 negative energy damage, has Conceal Spellcasting, Invisible Spell, and has any MM feat on it.

Also, the summary of Sanctum Spell you are looking at from Crystalkeep is wrong.

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-26, 10:49 PM
I can't believe nobody's mentioned metamagic rods yet.

Maerok
2010-05-26, 10:50 PM
Casting on other planes (some planes apply MM on the fly on similarly aligned spells, for example IIRC [Fire] spells are maximized and empowered on the elemental plane of fire)

So a Planar Shepard cohort would be nice.

dextercorvia
2010-05-26, 10:53 PM
Play an illumian: Naenhoon.

mobdrazhar
2010-05-26, 10:59 PM
Casting on other planes (some planes apply MM on the fly on similarly aligned spells, for example IIRC [Fire] spells are maximized and empowered on the elemental plane of fire)

Well we are in a Planescape game...

dextercorvia
2010-05-26, 11:07 PM
Residual Magic: Lingering Metamagic. Pay once get it twice. Complete Mage

DragoonWraith
2010-05-26, 11:25 PM
Midnight Metamagic allows some pretty slick alternate payment methods on Metamagic. Cerebremetamagic doesn't work quite as well but can also be used. Easy Metamagic, Practical Metamagic, Metamagic School Focus, and Arcane Thesis are straight reducers. Metamagic Rods offer the feats without actually using them. The Sudden Metamagic feats also don't require higher spell slots. And, of course, Incantatrix offers the mother of all Metamagic tricks.

JeminiZero
2010-05-26, 11:40 PM
On the original question, there is also Metamagic Trick from the Magical Trickster PrC (CSc) and Vestige Metamagic from the Anima Mage PrC (ToM)

Sliver
2010-05-27, 12:58 AM
I can't believe (Okay, I can...) that no one mentioned Metaphysical Spellshaper yet! Its from BoEF, one of the clean PrCs. A 3 level one. First level - you can take ability damage instead of raising level (works similarly to divine metamagic). Third level ability is that if you have used a metamagic feat on a spell, reduce it's cost by 1 (like arcane thesis, but not for each metamagic)

nyarlathotep
2010-05-27, 01:16 AM
You mad. Pirates can ninja. It's what makes them superior to ninja, as ninja cannot pirate.

I have seen many ninjas pirate in my day, they mostly do so in order to get out of production video games, and rpg books.

Amphetryon
2010-05-27, 05:49 AM
Halruuan Elder deserves mention.

Vizzerdrix
2010-05-27, 07:08 AM
If you can get The Book of Naughty Bits okay'd, then Metaphysical Spellshaper will do this too.

Cyclocone
2010-05-27, 07:45 AM
I can't belive Halruaan Elder didn't get a mention until p. 2!

Red Wizard and Hathran deserves a mention too.

Also:
Tainted Scholar.
Spelldancer.
Slay Mate.

Draz74
2010-05-27, 10:39 AM
Metamagic Song feat (the Sublime Chord's best friend). Also, another mention for Anima Mage.

Amphetryon
2010-05-27, 10:46 AM
I can't belive Halruaan Elder didn't get a mention until p. 2!It's generally not quite a smexy as Incantatrix, so people forget about it in comparison.

Good call on Spelldancer.

Cyclocone
2010-05-27, 11:00 AM
It's generally not quite a smexy as Incantatrix, so people forget about it in comparison.

Which really says a lot about Incantatrix.:smallbiggrin:

I guess it also says a lot about how obscure SS is when it gets mentioned after BoEF.

mobdrazhar
2010-05-27, 04:25 PM
hmmm... so there are a few classes that can do it... will have to think about this.

oh and BoEF is definately allowed... I have the DM's copy at the moment which has been used for chars in the past

Supagoth
2010-05-27, 09:40 PM
On the subject of Meta-feat reduction costs......Are there any feats that reduce the cost of Meta-psionic Feats?

Lycanthromancer
2010-05-27, 10:25 PM
On the subject of Meta-feat reduction costs......Are there any feats that reduce the cost of Meta-psionic Feats?Only one, so far as I know. That's Metapower, from CPsi. Reduces the cost of a single metapsionic feat tied to one power. Combine with Linked Power and, say, catfall for best effect.

Cyclocone
2010-05-28, 05:05 AM
There's also Improved Metapsionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMetapsionics), Epic only though.

While not a feat, there is Dominant Ideal Ardent (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a).

Brock Samson
2010-05-28, 10:24 AM
GO METAPHYSICAL SPELLSHAPER!!!! Then go Incantatrix. If your DM lets them stack that's some serious metamagic reduction going on. Plus some Arcane Thesis Orb of Fire - use Searing Spell out of Sandstorm to ignore fire resistance and half damage to immune creatures, and suddenly you can searing/empower/maximize/twin/energy admixture/quicken/fell drain it for like.... a +1(twin)+1(energy admix) and +1(quicken).... so a 7th level spell slot will get you a quickened 15d6(maximized for 90) then empowered for a good bit more, then energy admixtured to double all that (use cold if you can with the frostburn metamagic that does the same as Searing) and twin it and just... sorry, I want to see someone truly Nova.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2010-05-28, 10:48 PM
Martial weapon proficiencies with you swap for other feats. Dark chaos shuffle from FC I is the most common method.Um no one uses that interpretation... Here's why: 1 level dip in master of masks will get you allow you to DCFS pretty much every feat in the game

sofawall
2010-05-28, 11:04 PM
Um no one uses that interpretation... Here's why: 1 level dip in master of masks will get you allow you to DCFS pretty much every feat in the game

Well, see, funny thing. Most things that grant proficiency do not grant the feat. They merely grant proficiency. Fighters, for example, do not get free weapon proficiency feats, just the proficiency (they do, however, get the armour proficiency feats as bonus feats, so they can trade those).

Elves, get the 4 proficiencies as bonus feats, however, so they can trade them in.

EDIT: I'm honestly surprised that you, of all people didn't catch that sort of thing. You have a freakin' dirty tricks handbook. :P

Nards
2010-10-31, 11:45 AM
I was wondering about metamagic and spell storing. I have ruled out the using a maximized 2nd level spell in a spell storing item. I have also received an answer on using a rod and trying to maximize a 2nd level spell to put it in a spell storing weapon. What if through the use of feats I was able to make a maximized second level spell cost a 3rd level slot. Would that be allowed in a spell storing weapon?

averagejoe
2010-10-31, 12:54 PM
The Mod They Call Me: Thread necromancy.