BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 7

[nothingclever]

There was discussion of a reboot for the BleachITP-verse. A new beginning, more structured and with an overall lower power level. Similar deal to Ultimate Marvel.

This thread is for discussing that, to keep it out of the main thread.

Important stuff so far:

DISCUSSION THREADS
First Discussion Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145883)
Disccusion Thread 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147717)
Discussion Thread 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149850)
Discussion Thread 4 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150660)
Discussion thread 5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151506)
Discussion thread 6 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153111)

EPISODES

Episode 1: "Prologue! A new tale, a new Shinigami!" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152286)
Episode 2: Hannibal's Past: Flashback to the Old!
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8543521)
OTHER HELPFUL LINKS
Character Registry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146758)
Wiki (http://bleachitp-reborn.wikidot.com/)

A while ago we chose Central 5, a group of five people who work as a governing body for the Soul Society. They are Kasanip, Zarah, Callos_DeTerran, Sucrose and Frozen_Feet. They are tasked with such tasks as deciding Captain promotions and upholding laws of Seireitei. Details can be found below.

In the second last thread people voted and decided that there would not be a Quincy vs Shinigami war before the actual start of the story/roleplay unlike in canon. It was also decided through a vote that Quincy arrows would destroy souls as they do in canon through a vote. People are open to the possibility of future conflicts between the two factions and the Quincy learning how to purify souls with their arrows. Learning how to do so would likely be a significant plot point.

Quincy players have decided that anyone that makes a Quincy should write up a description of their family/clan's history.

Souls that are fully absorbed and become part of a hollow permanently fuse with it. When a hollow is purified the souls it absorbed are not split up. They are reborn as a single entity.

Frozen_Feet's proposed take on this:
Life Cycle of Hollows.

Canny Hollows: these are beings like Grand Fisher and Shrieker - normal Hollows that stay behind in Mortal World much longer than usual. Why? Either they still have unfinished business... or they were already crooked in life.

My reasoning is as follows: when a good Plus turns into a Hollow, it seeks to destroy its loved ones like any other Hollow. However, the mind of the good souls can't hold together once they're done with that. They lack killer's instinct, and might even feel guilt for breaking what was once dear to them in life. This is why they seek oblivion.

Evil souls, on the other hand, gain much more pleasure from tormenting living beings. Even after they've killed those they had a personal beef with, they stay in Mortal World, because their bestial desires won't let them leave. In a way, they still have something to do that defines them and stops them from losing their inviduality, even if it's only "kill all things":

Menos Grande Gillians: When a soul becomes Hollow, the first thing it does is destroy all things it held dear in mortal life. In most cases, having lost their purpose and consumed by their own loneliness, Hollows wander into Hueco Muendo, where they instinctively seek out other souls who died in the same way. Seeking embrace of sweet oblivion, they engage in cannibalistic orgy and fuse into Menos Grande Gillian. Fusion of souls is permanent; once eaten by a Gillian, a soul cannot be separated again.

Menos Grande Gillian's have no identity, only scattered fragments of negative memories and emotions. When such a Gillian is purified, its soul passes into Soul Society as essentially blank slate. However, due to originally being gestalt of multiple entities, such soul has much vaster Reiryoku than normal and is more likely to fragment into Zanpakuto spirit and Inner Hollow. Thus, a purified Menos Grande Gillian is very likely to become a shinigami.

Adjuchas and Vasto Lordes: As noted, Menos Grande Gillians are gestalt formed from people who died in the same way. Adjuchas happens when the amount of souls reaches a critical mass, causing a new personality to bloom from the fragmented memories. This being is effectively personification of its "cause of death". However, Adjuchas aren't stable, and must keep absorbing other Hollows who died the same way to increase in power. Should they fail to absorb other Hollows, starvation will make them regress, reducing them back to mindless beasts. Once Adjuchas has eaten enough souls, it evolves into a Vasto Lorde. However, this requires that they beat all of their challengers, letting none who manage to eat a bit of them to get away.

So, why can't Adjuchas who gets a bit of itself eaten become a Vasto Lorde? It's because losing to another Hollow means there's another being with same Aspect of Death who is more powerful. A Vasto Lorde is a Menos who has absorbed or proven itself to be stronger than all other Hollows with the same aspect of death. They are, effectively, anthropomorphic personifications of their Aspect of Death, and rule supreme over lost souls who died that way. As long as they remain undefeated, they are stable; if a Vasto Lorde does lose, it begins to regress like Adjuchas until it can destroy the Hollow that defeated it.

Arrancars: A Hollow can become an Arrancar in any point of its life, as long as it has a personality at the time. An Arrancar is a Hollow who learns to define itself by way other than its Aspect of Death, thus rising above its bestial instincts.

All Arrancars are stable. While an Arrancar can keep eating souls to increase in power, it no longer fuses new souls with the core of its person - the nommed soul only loses its reiryoku. A soul eaten by Arrancar is usually reborn as a new Hollow. In any case, eating Pluses or other Hollows is pretty much voluntary for an Arrancar - they mostly do so because there is no other food in Hueco Muendo. Because of this, Arrancars can't be held as inherently worse than humans or Shinigami.

Menos and Purification: Shinigami who don't remember their lives were Menos who got purified. As the identity of a Menos is effectively a new entity and is only born after death, Konso unfortunately wipes that all away. For purposes of Redemption, a soul which has gone through Oblivion of the Gillian phase is exempt from Hell's punishment. They become Shinigami because of huge amount of Reiryoku they accumulated as a Hollow.

Resurreccion and Segunda Etapa: Resurreccion is an Arrancars ability to retake its form as a Hollow, and consequently as the manifestation of its aspect. The power of an Arrancars resurreccion is in part directly proportional to how much the Arrancar's behaviour reflects its Aspect.

While achieving Segunda Etapa is only typical for Vasto Lordes who already rule over their Aspect, theoretically any Arrancar can achieve it through meticulous training and self realization.

Soul Society and the inhabitants of Las Noches (The King of Hollows, the Epsada and their underlings) have a truce between each other at the start of the game/story but both sides want to break as soon as they gain a substantial upper hand on the other.

People that want to make captain entries should write up a history for their preferred division including duties, a past captain or two and whatever else you might think important to add. It can be significantly different from canon.

Strawberryman would like input on how to revise his S.W.O.R.D. faction:Anyway. In light of some recent changes to our world, it occurs to me I also need to update S.W.O.R.D's writeup. Just so we don't have more clashes;

I'd like people's feedback/input on the new writeup for S.W.O.R.D.

So everyone can be happy. :smalltongue:

For reference, the old writeup. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8158615&postcount=811) The faction itself will be in my sig from now on.

General Originally Posted by Zarah
We need a clearly directed plot in order to keep things trucking along without getting stalled, and I had a thought of a way to help accomplish that. Basically, we come up with some central themes for this game. This isn't a revolutionary idea, and some people were already doing just that in the previous game, but I'm saying we all come up with and agree on two or three major themes for this story. Ones that will continue to appear again and again across many of the plotlines throughout the entire game. It'll help direct the plot and could potentially give some good ideas for other characters. Not to mention, it'll give much more of a satisfying payoff in the end once the themes are fully realized.

Whatever they are, they should be fairly general, so they can be adapted to as many of the plots that we have going. Of course, we can expand to include as many motifs and themes as we want in our own stories, but if we have a set of continuous themes to draw from, then it'll really help make things much more connected. Even more coherent.

Obviously, the one I'm gunning for with Kujo is "Law vs. Chaos," and Bleach in of itself has tons of themes we can pick from. "Inner Conflict" is a big one, for example. But hey, I'm open to other suggestions. Any thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightDisciple
I think "Law vs. Chaos" is good.

I'd like to play off of strawberryman's suggested faction, as well as off of what we've seen in our current game, and suggest something dealing with the question: How far do you go to accomplish something? Do you do evil in the name of a greater good? (Sorry. I couldn't help myself.) Or do you make sure to never compromise your principles, large and small, no matter the cost?

Not sure how to compress that into a pithy phrase, but there we go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightDisciple
The following came about in a discussion about the nature of various Shinigami and Arrancar hybrids and such.

The Hougyoku is a substance used to perfect the hybridization of hollow and shinigami. It might have been created, or not. If it has, the creators were most likely vanquished by the powers of the Seireitei and Las Noches, who then sealed the thing off into some forsaken spot of some forsaken demiplane, with only the Ghost King and the Commander General being aware of its location. Both factions had problems with mad or power-hungry Artificial Arrancar and Stable Vizards, deciding that it better to forget the thing.

Shinigami Hybrids:

Unstable Vizard
An unstable vizard is a shinigami who, through some sort of accident or other means, has gained minor hollow powers.
An unstable vizard has access to a personal hollow mask, but does not have any unique powers and his hollowfication never progresses sufficiently to make a resurreccion or segunda etapa possible, and the unstable vizard gains access only to cero and garganta.
Becoming an Unstable Vizard is dangerous and hardly ever intentional, as the name implies, most accidents that would result in an unstable vizard result in a dead shinigami or a hollow, instead. Unstable Vizards must fight off their inner hollow and hollowifcation fully, to prevent the being from overcoming them utterly, but this is a fight that never truly ends.

Stable Vizard
A stable vizard has been created through use of the hougyoku. They do not have to fight off the hollowfication or an inner hollow, which is melded into their person completely.
A stable vizard has access to all hollow powers (cero, bala, sonido, garganta and hierro), and their masks might grant them a unique power, they also have the power to achieve resurreccion and even segunda etapa.

---

Hollow Hybrids

Natural Arrancar
Natural arrancar are hollows who arrancarised themselves, or with the help of other hollows who know how to speed up the process. The arrancar gains an arrancar zanpakutou, which has no spirit, and is merely most of the arrancar's unique powers sealed into sword shape.
Natural arrancar have access to resurreccion and may develop segunda etapa. But do not have access to shinigami abilities.

Artificial Arrancar
Artificial arrancar are created through the Hougyoku. They have the potential to sunder off one of the souls that forms their colective and form it into a second zanpakutou capable of granting shikai and even bankai. Artificial arrancar have the potential to learn shinigami techniques such as Hoho, Kido and Hakuda.

---

Mortal/Hollow Hybrids

Living Vizard
A Living Vizard is a mortal with a hollow mask, the mask comes with an innate, unique power, and when on, it gives the normal boosts and hollow abilities. Living Vizards can, eventualy, achieve resurreccion. A vizard mask cannot ever be lost, and if broken it can be resummoned almost instantly.

Living Arrancar
A living arrancar gains an arrancar zanpakuto (no spirit), hollow abilities (sonido, cero, hierro, bala) and the power of resurreccion. Resurreccion relies on the zanpakuto, which, unlike the vizard mask, can be broken (in which case it needs awhile to regrow).

Hollowing
A hollowing is a mortal who gains the power to turn some body part into a hollow-like version with greater strenght, speed and resilience. The powers in this hollowlike limb can be bolstered through training, but only up to a limit. As this limit is reached the hollowing must, in order to increase her powers, absorb hollow reishi, either form the atmosphere of hueco mundo or through the cannibalization of hollows, which allows even more of the Hollowing's body to turn into hollow-like parts.
The powers of the hollowing come at a risk, for, when enough of the hollowing's body becomes hollowlike, he risks becoming trapped into the monstrous shape.

Shinigami/ Mortal Hybrids:

Substitute Shinigami
This should be pretty basic and obvious.

Living Shinigami
Living shinigami are mortals with access to a shinigami zanpakutou while still in their mortal bodies.

Sereitei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarah
Also, I'm reposting my Central 46 idea, since it got lost two OOC threads ago, and it's far more relevant here. So once again:
Anyway, we've been going on about all of this and that in the Bleach universe, but I came to the realization that we completely forgot about a little group of people hiding away in Soul Society: The Central 46. Probably because in both canon and our game, they've done next to nothing other than... Well, die. However, I felt that if we were going to go with a new setting, why not actually make them practical?

Here's what I suggest: We nominate three or four trusted players to act as the Central 46. Any of these people can post as the entire body, and essentially act as an administrative organization both in and out of character. You might think that doesn't make sense, but in actuality, the duties would cross-over a lot more than you might imagine. For example, say a player wants his character to be promoted to a captain at some point in the RPG. The Central 46 would be the ones who analyze the situation and make a decision, but they'd have to look closely at both the character and the player to see if they're ready for the responsibilities. As another example, imagine that a group of rogue Shinigami appear in the mortal world and start causing trouble. The 46 would decide whether or not Soul Society goes to war with them, and thus whether or not any of the more powerful characters get involved in the plot. Think of them like a set of unofficial moderators for the RPG, who keep things in check both ICly and OOCly.

I think it could also add a whole new layer of role-playing opportunities. Let's say a group of low-powered academy students are training in the mortal world when one classmate decides to do something reckless and ends up getting them into dire straits. They make it back to Soul Society alive and in one piece, but now they have to answer to the Central 46 and explain their actions. Having actual players behind the council instead of just mindless NPCs (or corpses) makes it a bit of a nagging threat in the back of people's minds, and could even indirectly prevent players from going overboard. Since I know that if I were sitting on the council, I would not be a gracious host.

EDIT: I forgot to mention. I wanted to do something with the central 46 that wasn't "kill them all," and this seems like a pretty practical application of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Gray + Frozen_Feet
Gotei divisions and their tasks:
1) Administrative.
2) Ninjas.
3) Execution?
4) Healing+Hospitality.
5) Messengers.
6) Reinforcements.
7) Logistics.
8) Tactical planning
9) Recon.
10) Internal Police.
11) Fight.
12) Science.
13) Patrol.

Hollow, Arrancar and Las Noches

Originally Posted by Draken
Now, on to other matters, we need to decide how a few things work. For instance, the menos fusion. When first someone asked what happened to the souls that form a menos, we decided, back then, to have it so that they remain separate (which means when the menos is destroyed all souls are released). But I think it is best if (save exceptions) we have it so that they all permanently fuse.

This has two benefits:

1. It adds a depth of moral doubt to the destruction of an arrancar. They aren't mindless monsters like hollows, they can be argued with, and destroying them won't fre thousands of innocent souls. Just erase their memories.

2. It creates a good "soul number check". We assume that, along with the reincarnations, new souls are, indeed, created. But then... There are only means to increase the number of souls in place. None to reduce them (save awful, vile acts and stuff). The menos "singularity of souls" would be a decent means of keeping the soul population under control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken
On Las Noches, I was thinking of this organization:

The King of Hollows: The King of Hollows, duh.
The Espada: Captain/Nobility Equivalents.
Fraccion: The liutenants, officers and close persons to the Espada.
Numeros: The soldiers of Las Noches.
Rest: The rest.

I perceive Las Noches as a city in Hueco Mundo, a city governed by arrancar and open to shinigami, mortal and hollow alike. A city where all beneath the artificial sun is under scrutiny of the law enforcement of the city, but where the shady alleys are hive to scum of the worst sort, criminals, traitors, traficants. A place where the Commander General and the Big Bad can look face to face and not be expected to try to kill each other on the risk of losing free access to this (mostly) safe haven.

The idea here isn't that arrancar and hollows are friendly.

The idea is that one vasto lorde decided to open his domain to other spiritual beings. Mainly because rational menos actually have very little reason to fight shinigami except spite, this is because your average menos won't ever leave Hueco Mundo unless goaded out by some other force. Menos have no interest in plus or living souls, they eat other hollows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draken View Post
1. I will be assigning the Espada, most likely.

2. I will also, probably, not keep the numbers strongly tied to the power of each character.

3. The Ghost King will not be the primera.

4. My main arrancar character (King's gonna stay in the background) will be the Queen of Hollows, and she will not be an espada either. I will keep those positions for other players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen_Feet View Post
About Aspects of Death: it's established that once a Hollow has destroyed things that were dear to it, they wander into Hueco Muendo and seek out other Hollows to ease their pain / to forget about their lives. I propose they instinctively seek out others who died in the same way, and thus their suffering condenses into their Aspect. Arrancars gain power when the ascended personality realizes this and works around / with it.

Fae

Okay, I think I now have enough to bring this for discussion.

The Fae
Spoiler
The State of the Afterlife of the British Isles
Britain’s afterlife is stable – just. Long periods of internal strife between the psychopomps of Britain, known to themselves as the mac Lir or fab Lly^r, and to others as the Fae, left ample time for Hollows to develop and grow. Now, Britain faces a deep-rooted infestation of well-hidden Menos, but the Houses of the British Isles are united in their desire to rid the islands of these threats.

Annwn – the Afterlife
The British afterlife is called Annwn, a place that reflects the most untouched corners of the British Isles in its geography. The four courts of monarchs are located in a roughly central location within a few hours journey of each other by normal walking speed. Passage between Annwn and the mortal world is achieved by passing through thick banks of mist that function as the Fae equivalent of Senkaimon. The mac Lir make use of ravens, rather than butterflies, to guide them through the misty realm between Annwn and the mortal world.

The Organisation of the Fae
The British Isles are ruled by four monarchs – one each for Ireland, Scotland, England and Wales. Each of these monarchs governs passage of souls into Annwn in the country they are tied to. They each possess three Houses under their command, each ruled by a Tiarna or Pennaeth, individuals equal to the captains of Soul Society. A Tiarna or Pennaeth is directly supported by their Dara or Ail, equivalents to the Japanese Vice-Captains. The rest of the House is made up of thirteen mionn cheangal or lw rhwymo, equivalents to seated officers, plus any other Fae who are members of the House but deemed unworthy of the distinction of the upper ranks. The specialisations of each House vary depending on the current Tiarna or Pennaeth, but it is very rare for their not to be at least one House dedicated to combat in each country at any given time. The ranks of the Houses are held for life, unless the bearer of a rank forfeits it. A House member is usually given a title and land in Annwn upon forfeiting a rank. These titles are hereditary, and their bearers and their family often become the British equivalent of the Noble Houses of Soul Society.

Every year, a randomly selected twenty members of each House are chosen to leave Annwn and go out into the mortal world and deal with Hollows as they see fit. Fae on such leave from their House are known as Fianna, and are exempt from all laws of their lords until the end of their sojourn and return to Annwn.

Each monarch also rules a small Royal House. Tiarna or Pennaeth who truly distinguish themselves are promoted to this rank to serve as the monarch’s guardians and personal champions.

Alongside the House structure exists the Aois-dàna, a loose affiliation of bards and druids that serve as advisors to the lords of the Houses, historians, genealogists, legal specialists, and experts in Ealaín, the British form of kido.

Capabilities of the Fae
All abilities the Fae possess are mirrors of the abilities of shinigami. They can walk on air like their Japanese counterparts, and focus their training on Scileanna Laochra (Zanjutsu), Ystwythder (Hoho), Gan a Arm (Hakudo) and Ealaín (Kido).

--------------------------
A Note on Language
Whilst most of the terminology for the Fae is based on Celtic languages, some, particularly the specifics and names of Ealaín, were brought to Britain from elsewhere. These use Ancient Sumerian.
--------------------------

In addition, every Fae possesses a Treoir Anam, their equivalent of a zanpakutou. These possess the potential for a Rhyddhau (shikai) and a Nerthol Rhyddhau (bankai) as a zanpakutou does. The only notable difference between a Treoir Anam and a zanpakutou is that the former are quite likely to take a shape other than a sword even when sealed, spears and axes in particular being quite common, and no small number of Aois-dàna druids possessing sickles.

Ealaín
The mystic arts of Britain function identically to kido, the spells of a given path and number function the same as their foreign counterpart.

Spoiler
Silakus: “Way of Destruction”
1, Taka (Push)
4, Sagir (Pale Lightning Flash): Balor! Unlid the third eye that graces your brow, and let forth the spite of clouds!
11, Nuhuš Gír (Tamed Lightning)
31, Urinti (Blood Arrow): Balor! Unlid the third eye that graces your brow, and let forth the tide of chaos!
33, Nissati (Blue Arrow): Balor! Unlid the third eye that graces your brow, and let the west crash forth!
54, Su-luh Izi (Cleansing Flames): Balor! Unlid the third eye that graces your brow, and empower me to remove impurity from your sight!
58, Imiuru (Windstorm)
63, Anurimiriu (Threefold Storm Roar)
73, Erim Nissati (Host of Blue Arrows): Balor! Unlid the third eye that graces your brow, drown out the sun, and call forth the sundering west winds!
88, Aralimiriutil (Apocalyptic Threefold Netherworld Storm)
90, Gitil (Black Ending)
96, Ašgir Mànu (Single Sword Immolation)

Girserusu: “Path of Shielding Arts”
1, Šaga (Captive)
4, Sigulul (Golden Chain)
8, Tamšen (Reflecting Mirror)
9, Eda (Paralysis): Balor! Lid your third eye, call up the hounds of Annwn, and grace us with the living death!
21, Urinimi (Blood Cloud)
26, Zah Bu (Hiding Light): Balor! Lid your third eye, turn your gaze away, and put the sun in their eyes!
30, Ešhu Ulul (Three-Bird Restraint)
37, Ulgu (Star Net)
39, Senbu (Shielding Light): Balor! Lid your third eye, turn your gaze to me, and guard me with thine wrath!
58, Igisar Lasar (Seeing the World, Knowing All): Balor! Lid your third eye, extend your sight forth, whisper in my ear, and let me see thine sight! The sun and moon are my eyes, the trembling ground my ear!
61, Asni E-kurbu (Six-Body Prison of Light): Balor! Lid your third eye, gift the sun unto to me, and let its halo trap them!
62, Ûšukur (Hundred Spear Fence)
63, Gisigulul (Locking Golden Chain)
73, Išibalsig (Rotated Mountain Wall)
75, Aš Barzilba-an (Five Adamant Pillars)
77, Kadigir (Mouth of the Gods): Balor! Lid your third eye, and gift me with your voice! The clouds are as my mouth, and the skies are as my lungs!
81, Barù-la (Splitting Nothingness)


Geasa
Unlike shinigami, the Fae bear an additional restraint upon their power: geasa (sing. geis). These are taboos for the Fae in question that they must not commit, or lose access to spiritual power or suffer some other misfortune. Anyone can bring a geasa on a Fae, though the Fae in question must willingly accept it. Treoir Anam spirits often require their wielder to agree to a geis before granting Rhyddhau or Nerthol Rhyddhau. They also pay a part in Fae society, geasa often being included in oaths to one’s lord or in marriage vows.

Samsara

Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
As far as the plot is concerned. Here is my contribution, or at least, hopefully. The Samsara plot, and reasoning for their dark activity.

As much as I personally loathe the name of our new city, I figured it could be incorporated into the plot. With a little brain storming with Callos, and a look at the set up of the new game, I’ve noticed there are –a lot- of spiritually aware children. This led to me thinking –why- that might be the case. Its not a normal occurrence. So, here me out.

Phoenix Town () is a center of reincarnation, both out going and inbound to the spiritual world. This inundates the area with spirit particles, thus leading to the relatively high number of the spiritually aware. The Samsara’s main plot in the first game, and the carry over here, is to rebalance the passage of souls, destroying the Valley of Screams, and removing the Blanks from the Cycle of Reincarnation. Thus fixing the balance of the spiritual world. To do this, their plot is to flood the city with Blanks, and over time detonate them once a certain number of highly aware mortal souls are collected. This puts them in direct conflict with the mortal characters for several reasons.

1. The humans –are- those souls, thus making them prime targets for the Samsara to go after.
2. This will blow up the city, killing off the whole area. That’s bad for those living inside the city, with family and friends. Making this a plot that –all- mortal characters can get involved in early on.

Well, that’s my idea for the Samsara plot. Innis tested, Callos Approved. Now, to the playground, think it’ll work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
The Samsara


Leadership: “The Boss”
Second in Command: Go Nagi
Mortal World Relations:

Primary Grunt Force: Blanks (Augmented Blanks)
Physical Location: The Valley of Screams

Overview: The Cycle of Reincarnation is not a simple or perfect thing. Souls traveling between the worlds sometimes fragment, their memories fading into some unknown location, the soul falling into a realm that should never exist. These are the blanks, souls without memories, lost forever from the Cycle of Reincarnation, unable to return for they cannot remember how. It is unknown how, but when a number of these memory less shells accumulate, a separate realm, the Valley of Screams, is created to house them. This real, lies between Soul Society and the Mortal World. But the memories of these creatures are not destroyed or lost forever. The swirling mass of memories and experience’s coalesces into an object known as the Memory Rosary, the accumulation of all memories lost between Reincarnation and the journey there in.

The Samsara

The Samsara are akin to Arrancar in that they are an artificial creation, Blanks granted the copies of memories from the Rosary itself. The likeness between themselves, Shimigami, and Arrancar end at this small analogy, not truly meant to exist the Samsara are the thinking force behind the Valley of Screams, the heralds of those cast out by an imperfect system.

Standard Powers of the Samsara
Blank Manipulation: Every member of the Samsara is capable of utilizing Blanks for various purposes. They may duplicate Kido (if their memories contain such information), create weapons or simple items, duplicate flashstep or sonido (again based purely on their memories), or fly. Samsara may also heal with the power of the Blanks, capable of restoring even lost limbs if given proper time and concentration.

Individual Powers


The powers of a Samsara depends entirely on his or her memories, granting each a highly individualized level of capabilities and powers.

What this is, is a simple dolling up of what seems to be the first Villian team of the Reborn game. We're looking for member's currently. So, if anyone's interested, roll a character up and lets see where it goes :smallwink:

Mortals

Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryman View Post
...Okay, well, I assume because there was little reaction it would help if I actually explained what the faction I was planning is.

It's more or less like the Men In Black... It's a multi-national secret organization that deploys agents to clean up after the various mishaps that Soul Reapers can't. As such, the various Soul Reaper organizations usually leave them well enough alone.

...That's their cover op, though. What they are really trying to do is make Mortals able to fend for themselves, and be self-sufficient on the matters of the spiritual. Which meshed pretty well with Ran's goal during the last cycle... but, that's an aside. They track and recruit various spiritual humans: Quincies (in fact that may possibly be a large base of their agents), Living Vizards, various anomalies, just plain spiritually aware humans, or maybe even Bount.

...As for why they may be considered villainous or antagonistic to the Enclave is their willingness to do literally anything to achieve their ends; assassinations, theft... etc. And it's likely that the various runes they possess will be like their Holy Grail. For reasons I don't feel like fully explaining, I would like to keep some secrets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarah View Post
Well, I was under the assumption that Phoenix Town was going to be another spiritual hot spot, which explains why so many mortals are developing their own powers. Of course, the introduction of outside forces will help as a catalyst, but it's mostly just the fact of where the people live more than anything. The same abundance of spiritual power in the city would also explain why there might be various factions vying for power in the region even from the beginning.

Also, about the idea of the cold war turning hot, I like that plan. I like it a lot. It fits perfectly with Kujo's intentions, and is more or less what I was planning to work toward anyway, so I'm giving it a hearty thumbs up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
Well, here is what I was thinking for the over all "History". Its diluted yes, and I'll extrapolate more on it when I can sit down and really pound it out.

Spoiler
The Quincy Bloodlines, as they were, are connected to the ancient Ninja Clans of the Sengoku Jidai, now far removed and interbred with the general populace of Japan, the Quincy themselves would retain lasting familial alliances, hatreds and pacts with other blood lines


Translators: Word Reference (http://www.wordreference.com/) is a pretty good one for English to Spanish. Just don't translate phrases with it.

[KnightDisciple]

Alright, it does seem as if I was mistaken. Having re-read over Hirako Yoshi, I have some questions. Well, one question.

Why did he join up with the Kido Corp in the first place if he felt the psuedo-mystic aspect of Kido to be "Muddied" by ritual and spirituality. Kido would never be taught "as a science". The entire "field" of Kido is deeply entrenched within spiritual, physical and mystic studies. Perhaps at the base level such things are boiled down to some blanket topics and methods, but the deeper one would go, the more one would be exposed to the ideology and intricate teachings of the Kido Corp itself.

I guess what I'm saying here is, its not like he wouldn't have known well in advance on how the Kido Corp runs in regards to their more seperate and distinct feel against the Gotei 13. It may be possible that Hirako Yoshi simply thought he could deal with it. If thats where your comming from KD then I understand, but thats mere assumption on my part.He thought it wasn't as heavy and pervasive as it seemed, and that he could deal with the atmosphere.


As it stands Hirako Yoshi isn't just a "Fringe" within the Kido Corp, but the entire Soul Society. Kido works (at least as far as the wide majority of Soul Society is concerned) as its written in the Kido Corp write up. He'd be more then fringe in the Corp itself, he'd be a heritic for proposing the centuries long time tested concepts where in fact needless, and that kido was a science. Would they be militant in their feelings towards him? Certainly not. But with such beliefs, he would be one in probably none in an entire division of 300 people.Wow. Gee, thanks Innis. My character is now a "heretic".

When did Kido become a religion? Because I'm really curious about that.

And it's fine to say he'd be alone in the Kido Corps. But is it your right to say "All of Soul Society but you views it like this"? Isn't that kind of...god-mod-y?

But him being a "heretic"? No. I won't accept the use of that term. "Fringe element", sure. "Odd duck", sure. But not "heretic". Pick a different word.

Edit: And since when did you get to declare how Kido "works"? Kido works like Kido, which is to say like spells. Unless you've radically changed a basic mechanic of the setting, you use an incantation, a certain amount of energy, and maybe a gesture, and an effect happens.

Are you saying Kido invention happens like you say?

Because Yoshi probably invented one or two of the kido on his list of "most often used".

[KnightDisciple]

Sorry for double post, want to make sure this isn't lost in the shuffle.

Changed Aspect back to Darkness, especially in light of Genevova's aspect.

Vicente, Fraccion to the Cuarta Espada
Name: Vicente Ortiz
Gender: Male
Age: ~600, counting his short mortal life, and his days as a non-Arrancar Hollow. ~475 years as an Arrancar.
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 165 lbs.
Reiatsu: Dark Slate Grey (OOC: Speech also bolded)
Eyes: Black
Hair: Black
Aspect of Death: Darkness

Appearance:Hollow Hole: 1 inch in diameter, in the place most people have a belly button.

Mask Fragment: A 1/2inch strip of bone going over both eyebrows (and the space in between). At the outer edges of the eyebrows, it angles up at 45 degrees for 3/4inch (here it sticks out on its own, rather than being attached to his face/scalp/brow). Branching off from the middle and down his nose is another strip, 1/4inch wide. It runs just past the tip of his nose, curving a bit, somewhat like the beak of a bird of prey.

Some might almost call Vicente "handsome". At the very least, he might be considered "striking". Tall, fairly lean, and always serious, he tends to cut his way through a crow with little effort. His black hair is kept on the shorter end, parted from the left. He wears a pair of yellow-tinted glasses (http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/KnightDisciple/01GENDO1.jpg), citing a light case of farsightedness. These glasses occasionally seem to reflect available light (http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr102/KnightDisciple/gendo4-1.jpg), generating a somewhat intimidating effect for observers.

Vicente tends to wear fairly simple clothing. Loose pants, a loose long sleeved shirt. Simple, rugged military-style black boots. He does have an ankle-length black hooded cloak with a white interior that he's rarely seen without. Whenever people see him, he does not have the hood up, and the cloak is worn such that some mistake it for a cape. He also wears a pair of pure white gloves. If someone were to remove his shirt, they'd see he also wears bandages around his lower abdomen, covering his hollow hole.

Finally, Vicente has taken to wearing a sturdy belt with a large number of pockets and pouches on it. These seem to be made to carry his various inventions he's developed for the purpose of combat. (OOC:Devices detailed further down.)

Personality:Complex. On the surface, Vicente seems to be all-business, interacting with other residents will cold professional courtesy. Most people have never seen him smile; some swear he can't.

He can. Very occasionally, it's a smile produced by debating things with Alejandro, or some other stimulating intellectual conversation.

Otherwise, he's smiling due to some cruel plan of his coming to fruition. While not the "experimenter" some of his fellows might be, Vicente is know to occasionally take captured enemies, or those who break more minor laws in Las Noches, and experiment on them. Most often testing various poisons, acids, gases, and even weapons on them. Not for the sake of cruelty, but to test the results.

Of course, even that isn't the full picture. Science is not an end in itself, but a means to a further end. That of sharpening his abilities in the fight against Soul Society. And the occasional hunt for souls, of course.

In truth, Vicente is a rigid man. He believes in following the rules of Las Noches, at least by and large. Those he doesn't agree with, he will obey in letter but not spirit, often seeking loopholes. He freely uses cruelty, intimidation, torture, murder, and a whole host of other horrid deeds to accomplish his end goals. Outside of a very tiny group of individuals, he is completely willing to backstab, betray, and belittle his comrades. And even "superiors" in the form of other Espada. Vicente crafts multiple plans and contingencies to deal with everyone from the lowest Numeros, to the Primera. He dares not plan against the Ghost King, but he doesn't wish to at any rate; Von Geister is one of the few he genuinely respects, alongside Renee and Alejandro. (OOC:Perhaps others as I get a better feel for characters).

General Abilities:Bala: Vicente's Bala are notably stronger than average, approaching the strength of his (admittedly somewhat weaker than normal) Cero, with no loss in his firing speed.

Cero: Vicente fires cero by pointing his pointer and index finger straight, with all other fingers curled back. His Cero are rather weak for a Fraccion (55/100 out of 65/100 would be one way to picture it); however, he is able to continuously fire one for 10 seconds. Combined with the comparatively thin size (perhaps 6 inches across), this makes his cero into a sort of "cutting beam", fitting his precision-based fighting style.

Hierro: Decently strong, though certainly not his strongest asset. Vicente might not be able to continuously block sword blows (except of someone notably weaker than himself, such as a low Numeros or fresh Unseated Shinigami), but neither will he be sliced in half upon the first or second blow.

Sonido: Fairly quick. Each jump carries Vicente a good distance (up to a couple hundred yards) at fairly high speeds. More than that, his endurance allows him to string together a few dozen jumps, and if given time to recover for a few minutes, he can repeat such a string a few times.
Oddly, despite the technique name, his sonido are completely silent.

Garganta: Basic capability.

Pesquisa: Excellent. Not only does he get a decent picture of enemy positions, and a hint at their strength, he's able to navigate in completely normally via a modified version of this skill. It only works within about 50 feet, and is mostly effective in enclosed spaces (open areas allow the pulse to dissipate more easily, and things like sand tend to just absorb the pulse), but it's a unique ace up his sleeve.

Zanpakuto:Sealed form: A katana with a plain steel blad. The guard is a solid oval, placed so that the longer dimension is parallel with the blade's orientation. The handle is wrapped in leather, with a simple metal pommel cap. The guard, grip, and pommel are all a dark brown, with flecks of lighter brown and white mixed in.

Resurrección: Ave del Atardecer (Dusk Bird); .
Upon release, Vicente's sword disappears, and his whole body glows for a moment. After the glow dies, it reveals a radically changed man.

At a glance, Vicente may remind some people of a humanoid Great Horned Owl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Horned_Owl). Almost all of his body is covered in feathers, most of them a deep black, with some (such as his front abdomen) colored a lighter gray. He retains his pants and belt, however.

Vicente's feet now resemble 5-toed bird's talons, with everything past his ankle being covered in an odd scale-like iteration of his armor. His toes each have a 5-inch long talon that's as strong and sharp as steel. Just as capable as any sword. He also has such a talon at his heel, albeit only 3 inches long. All are fully retractable. His hands gain the scaled appearance, but do not change in overall structure. He sprouts 5-inch talons from his fingers, as well.

Attached to his back are two large wings, midnight black, shaped similarly to those of his "totem creature".

His head has changed rather drastically. It not generally resembles the head of a Great Horned Owl, with a squatter neck, rounded skull, and a Hollow Mask that covers the entire front of his face, forming a beak at the front, as well as extending over the sides and up and out into the distinctive "horn" shape of an owl. His eyes are about 4 times larger than before, protected by a transparent membrane that acts as a weaker version of Hierro (mainly to protect his eyes from debris, both from fights and from flying at high speeds; it cannot protect his eyes from dedicated attack). He can turn his head nearly 180 degrees both left and right, giving him approximately 330 degrees of vision.

Specific Abilities:Generic Boosts:Vicente's strength, speed/sonido, Bala, and Cero all recieve a boost of about 50%.
Flight: Most obvious. Vicente's wings allow him to fly, even if conditions are such that he normally couldn't air-walk. He can't go as fast as when he's applying Sonido specifically, but it's actually less tiring for him. As well, he can dive from great heights to achieve at least some measure of the same speed as his Sonido, albeit with less accuracy and a longer "set-up" time.
Silent Movements: More even than with his sealed form, Vicente is utterly silent as he moves about. His Cero and Bala make only slight sounds. His voice is, of course, normal, so he has no trouble speaking if he wishes to. But otherwise, he's unnervingly silent. As a nocturnal predator should be.
Enhanced Vision: Vicente's vision is incredibly augmented in this form. He's able to see incredible detail from over a mile away, with his overall vision (picking up at least general shapes) is often limited only by obstructions or the curve of the world. As well, he's able to perceive subtle motions with a great degree of clarity, as well has having the ability to visually process incredibly fast motion (meaning he can see someone who's moving faster with much more clarity than the average observer). He can now see in even pitch black conditions. He is not, however, especially sensitive to at least normal light levels, though sudden bright light can cause some issues.
Enhanced Hearing: The "horns" on Vicente's mask, as well as the large rounded areas beside his eyes, serve a purpose: they enhance his hearing in a similar manner to a mortal owl. He is now able to pick up much softer sound than before.
Softener Hierro: Vicente's base Hierro stays the same. However, it is augmented by the feathers all over his body. They serve to vastly soften any blow coming at his person, leeching an attack of movement-related energies. They also dissipate a small portion of the energies of attacks such as Cero and Kido. This is not an absolute defense, but it is definitely one of Vicente's more useful abilities. It does not actually enhance his Hierro more than is typical for a being of his strength.
(Blackout Feather) (Refined name pending): Vicente has the ability to fling a somewhat limited (maximum of 20) feathers from his wings, out to a distance of 50 feet. These feathers emit a sphere of darkness 20 feet in diameter. Sufficiently powerful light sources can cancel this effect (special zanpakutou abilities, other such abilities, particularly bright kido, and the like). The feathers cannot cause physical harm being too soft for direct attacks. Instead, they can stick to any target. The darkness and "stickiness" last for a total of 1.5 minutes.
Vicente can produce these feathers as long as he is released, with no cost to himself. He has no problems seeing in the darkness generated, though almost any other being's sight will be incredibly limited. If it functions at all in such darkness.
The feathers can be "un-stuck" completely via a sufficient application of one's own energies. The feathers are also vulnerable to being physically destroyed, either via large-area attacks that hit them, or physical damage, typically via someone picking one off of themselves and tearing it in two. Damage to the feather itself negates the darkness effect. If you pull one off of you shirt with your hands, it will stick to your hands; it requires application of spirit energy to non-destructive remove.

Segunda Etapa: None yet. (OOC:If/when I determine something, I'll post it and notify people. Right now, I've got nothing. He may not ever have one.)

Other Equipment:Acid Pellets: Small balls containing a comparatively potent acid. Roughly equal to half the strength of one of Vicente's Bala. 10 stored in belt.
Blackout Bomb Pellets: Produces a momentary effect similar to the feathers he uses in Resurreccion out to 10 feet. The effect only lasts 5 seconds; just enough for a quick escape. 20 stored in belt.
Tear Gas Pellets: Produces about 15 seconds of moderate coughing, tears, and nasal irritation. Effect is lessened if subject does not breath in for the 3 seconds gas cloud is effective. Can be avoided by immediate departure from area of forming cloud. Cloud covers 10 feet. Less effective on those of sufficient strength. (OOC: Not a license for every single PC out there to completely ignore them.:smallannoyed:) 5 stored in belt.
Tanglefoot Bomb Pellets: Produce ~6 feet of tanglefoot substance on any surface it strikes. This substance notably hampers the movements of anyone touching a fair sized portion of it. Substance dries in 15 seconds, making it very easy to break away. Can be broken by someone exerting enough force. 5 stored in belt.
Razor Discs: 4 inch wide discs. Between their razor-sharp edges, and the momentum Vicente imparts, they are capable of doing approximately 50% of the damage of one of his bala. 15 stored on belt.
Grapple Gun: Seemingly anachronistic for a being that can fly and walk on air, Vicente nonetheless seems expert in its use. Not only can he scale fairly large buildings with it, he seems expert at using it to nab unsuspecting victims. 1 stored in belt.
Reiatsu Cloak: Vicente's trump card, and his most prized possession. This cloak, the one he seems to wear at all times, helps "muffle" his energy signature, making him much harder to detect. Shinigami instruments might well perceive him as a glitch, so long as he isn't using too much power. It cannot cloak the signature of things like his Cero and Bala, and if he raises his reiatsu too high, the effect is partialy nullified, giving away his position. It is "absorbed" during his release (along with much of his clothing), rendering it non-functional. It is keyed to his unique energy, so no other being can use his cloak. Whenever he is asked to make more, he cites a "happy lab accident" that means he can't make another, and he can't trade this one. The truth of this statement has yet to be fully determined.

Battle Stats:Offense: 60; Vicente is rather skills in both armed and unarmed combat, rendering him an opponent others must take seriously.

Defense: 60: Between his Hierro's strength (especially in Resurreccion) and his own learned skill, Vicente isn't an opponent someone can easily harm.

Mobility: 55: Vicente's sonido is on the high end of average; it is more his endurance than his speed or distance that stands out. As well, he has exceptional reflexes, allowing him to do startling last-moment dodges of various attacks (especially with his augmented vision in Resurreccion).

Intelligence: 90: Vicente is, frankly, a genius. Not only does he have a knack for combat, he has great invention skills, a strong sense of scholarship in many fields, an inquisitive intellect, excellent observation interpretation skills, and the ability to quickly process new ideas and circumstances. He is definitely something of an intellectual giant. Fitting for the Fraccion of the Cuarta.

Cero/Reiatsu: 50: Vicente's energy attacks are, ultimately, average. His over-strength Bala are compensated for by his under-strength Cero. Even the continuous fire ability doesn't compensate.

Total:315

Possible connections:-Ghost King Von Geister
-Cuarta Espada
-Victims

Tropes:Lawful Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LawfulEvil): He's a bad guy. But he's orderly about it.
What is Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatIsEvil): Doesn't care about such labels. Just power. And hunting.
Cool Chair (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CoolChair): Has one in his lab.
Utility Belt (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UtilityBelt): Of Course! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ)
Grappling Hook Pistol (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GrapplingHookPistol): Helps sneak around.
Smoke Bombs (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmokeOut): In a couple of different ways.
Crazy Prepared (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared): Or at least he hopes so.
Properly Paranoid (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProperlyParanoid): Las Noches is kind of a scary place...
Stealth Hi Bye (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StealthHiBye): Between his cloak, and his unusually silent movements, Vicente can pull these pretty easily.
Evil Twin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilTwin): Maybe he's an alternate universe one of Satoshi? :smallamused:
The Combat Pragmatist (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCombatPragmatist): Always.
Pragmatic Villainy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PragmaticVillainy): He pretty much does all the horrible things he has and will do for a reason. Mainly to advance the power and safety of himself and his people.
Scary Shiny Glasses (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScaryShinyGlasses): Of Course! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ)
(OOC:More to possibly be added later.)

[Prime32]

http://usesoapfilm.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/niteowl1.jpg

[Frozen_Feet]

When did Kido become a religion? Because I'm really curious about that.

Lets put it this way: when did it not? This is magic we're talking about. It's called demon arts. It used by spirits, literal gods of death.

By those qualifiers alone, it's not a stretch to say Kido is heavily entrenched in mysticism and religion. Many of the spells sound like prayers, or refer to mythology. That this spiritual angle is emphasised in Innis's take on it is a welcome change to me.

You're right, though, that there are likely wildy varied opinions on Kido, and your character probably isn't alone, even in Kido corps, with his more material or scientific take on it. I'd imagine there are a lot of people in Gotei who see Kido as just another tool, nothing more, nothing less.

But Innis is right that if your character has an outlook very much in odds with the rest of the organization, he will be viewed as a radical element, and that might interfere with his chances for promotion. Whatever he might be labeled as, it's not really something to get upset about.

[KnightDisciple]

http://usesoapfilm.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/niteowl1.jpgMore like this:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100422061730/marvel_dc/images/f/f9/Offplane.png

[AmberVael]

Whatever he might be labeled as, it's not really something to get upset about.

Yes, this. Please don't get in a fight again, you two. :smallsigh:

[KnightDisciple]

Lets put it this way: when did it not? This is magic we're talking about. It's called demon arts. It used by spirits, literal gods of death.

By those qualifiers alone, it's not a stretch to say Kido is heavily entrenched in mysticism and religion. Many of the spells sound like prayers, or refer to mythology. That this spiritual angle is emphasised in Innis's take on it is a welcome change to me.

You're right, though, that there are likely wildy varied opinions on Kido, and your character probably isn't alone, even in Kido corps, with his more material or scientific take on it. I'd imagine there are a lot of people in Gotei who see Kido as just another tool, nothing more, nothing less.

But Innis is right that if your character has an outlook very much in odds with the rest of the organization, he will be viewed as a radical element, and that might interfere with his chances for promotion. Whatever he might be labeled as, it's not really something to get upset about.To some degree, sure, it could be.

But ultimately, Kido is spells. Which, as D&D shows us, can be rather scientific, too. After all, with Kido, X chant, Y power supply, and Z hand gesture end up with AA Kido. Always.

But no, he doesn't get to label him a "heretic". Sorry, I'm going to be firm on that particular word.:smallannoyed:

[Draken]

Not much issue with the promotion on the Corps since he transfered to 12th, where his views are much agreed upon by the captain if by no one else.

And I think Kazuo will be damn proud of being called a Heretic. :smalltongue:

From merrian-webster's:

2 : one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist.

[Frozen_Feet]

To some degree, sure, it could be.

But ultimately, Kido is spells. Which, as D&D shows us, can be rather scientific, too. After all, with Kido, X chant, Y power supply, and Z hand gesture end up with AA Kido. Always.
As D&D shows us, the chant X can be a prayer to power supply Y, who is a god and can screw you over if he's feeling petty, and the gesture Z is more about showing respect than anything. Or, since we're talking about Demon arts, you might really be calling to hell and bargaining your soul with forces of darkness. That's without taking into accord Sorcerers or other Cha casters, who bend the forces of nature with their willpower since they damn feel like it, no scientific understanding of anything required.


But no, he doesn't get to label him a "heretic". Sorry, I'm going to be firm on that particular word.:smallannoyed:
Why so serious? it's not aimed at you, it's aimed at your character, by organization with increasingly odd standards which you might care nothing about.

[KnightDisciple]

Not much issue with the promotion on the Corps since he transfered to 12th, where his views are much agreed upon by the captain if by no one else.

And I think Kazuo will be damn proud of being called a Heretic. :smalltongue:

From merrian-webster's:

2 : one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist.Yeah. Yoshi isn't very old anyways, and he was only in the KC 10 years.

I actually addressed this in his history; he'd gotten a general "mystical" feel in the Academy, but got hit full-bore when he joined proper. He'd not realized the extent. As well, he tried to shrug it off at first and "blend in", but it never worked.

Also, regarding the word "heretic", I could find it acceptable if it is stated as such: A majority of the Kido Corps, those with the heaviest connection to the mystical aspects, use the word "heretic" with themselves. The rest merely think of him as an "odd person" or something similar. Most of the rest of Soul Society doesn't care one way or the other.

That way, you can call him a "heretic", but it at least kind of makes sense.

[AmberVael]

But no, he doesn't get to label him a "heretic". Sorry, I'm going to be firm on that particular word.:smallannoyed:

"Heresy is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma."

Whether your guy is right or wrong, it sounds very much like he'd qualify as a heretic to me, if you make the assumption that the majority of Kido practitioners view it as mysticism.

That becomes the question though: Does everyone see it as mysticism, or not?
So far, I don't see any solid argument towards the latter. I can agree that many might see it as just a tool, yes... but that doesn't imply that they see it scientifically, as opposed to mystically. It just says that they give it less reverence, and use it as they wish. Regarding it as science would still be a radical view.

That said, while I believe mysticism seems more likely, I don't see a strong push in that direction either, though I don't really see anything against it.


In the whole, I believe this is only an issue because it is being made into one. The character is described as being a controversial element, and Innis is pushing that he would be a heretic due to heavy mystical tones to Kido.
Both of these, I think, are making assumptions that perhaps should not be made, at least not so strongly (if people are going to get so riled up over it, at least).

[KnightDisciple]

As D&D shows us, the chant X can be a prayer to power supply Y, who is a god and can screw you over if he's feeling petty, and the gesture Z is more about showing respect than anything. Or, since we're talking about Demon arts, you might really be calling to hell and bargaining your soul with forces of darkness. That's without taking into accord Sorcerers or other Cha casters, who bend the forces of nature with their willpower since they damn feel like it, no scientific understanding of anything required.Ah, but clerics' powers continue to work unless they go outside alignment restrictions. Or they can be clerics of vague concepts.

And in my mind, Sorcerers (and other Cha casters) are self-consistent. That is, due to the way spells in D&D work, a Sorcerer who wants X affect always uses Y method, even though Y method is unique to them.

And I'd point to canon; they're called "demon arts", but never once is there talk of demons actually having anything to do with it.

So suddenly saying the actual mechanics aren't what they were before is...disingenuous.


Why so serious? it's not aimed at you, it's aimed at your character, by organization with increasingly odd standards which you might care nothing about.1.)I'm somewhat attached to my characters. 2.)I'm not a big fan of that word getting thrown around at any time, reserving it for serious situations that fully merit its use. 3.)This is a game, and I'd really rather not have to start dealing with concepts of heresy. 4.)His statement felt absolute, which I don't appreciate.

I already revised myself as to how I'd feel comfortable seeing its use.

As for non-mystical views of kido?

I didn't want to drag him into this, but Masaru's view would be pretty close to Yoshi's. He's rather skilled with Kido, but doesn't view it as anything more than a skill/tool. No mystical strings attached. He wouldn't stomp out more mystical views in his Division, mind. Just try to discourage people getting too wrapped up in such thoughts.

[Frozen_Feet]

And I'd point to canon; they're called "demon arts", but never once is there talk of demons actually having anything to do with it.
.
Never wondered what exactly what that "Black Dog of Rondanini" (sp?) was? Or any other of the oddly poetic or mystical elements of the Kido chants? It isn't explicitly stated, but the nature of the setting and the chants themselves give strong reason to suspect connection. There's a real Hell around, after all. It always puts fantastic dragons in new light when there are real dragons running around.

And to beat the horse a bit more, even though Clerics and, say, Psions have consistent powers, they still acquire those powers through meditation and prayer, and other mystical practices. So while the powers can be examined in scientific ways, it's clear attaining them requires subscription to spiritual practices and faith in supernatural.

[Draken]

"I will bolt a steering wheel to my balls before I believe that pumping your brain full of booze and narcotics can make you better at anything other than embarassing yourself."

---

And psions don't really need anything. Clerics do, but the deity only provides a channel for power. Deities and Demigods explicitly states that the cleric's training is what allows the casting of spells (it is why Gods themselves can't cast divine spells unless they have levels in divine spellcasting classes).

This, however, does not apply, because the energy to fuel kido comes from one's own reiryoku. Not from an external source like divine magic.

[KnightDisciple]

Never wondered what exactly what that "Black Dog of Rondanini" (sp?) was? Or any other of the oddly poetic or mystical elements of the Kido chants? It isn't explicitly stated, but the nature of the setting and the chants themselves give strong reason to suspect connection. There's a real Hell around, after all. It always puts fantastic dragons in new light when there are real dragons running around.

And to beat the horse a bit more, even though Clerics and, say, Psions have consistent powers, they still acquire those powers through meditation and prayer, and other mystical practices. So while the powers can be examined in scientific ways, it's clear attaining them requires subscription to spiritual practices and faith in supernatural.Wait. Psions don't need spirituality. They just have to sit and focus themselves.

I can accept that, for some Kido users, mysticism aids them.

But I'd rather we not require that any user of Kido be required to pray for spells or something. Or that my character be viewed as a heretic by anything more than a majority/core of the Kido Corps.

Edit:
"I will bolt a steering wheel to my balls before I believe that pumping your brain full of booze and narcotics can make you better at anything other than embarassing yourself.""I've yet to find any trouble casting or researching Kido while completely sober."

[Frozen_Feet]

"I will bolt a steering wheel to my balls before I believe that pumping your brain full of booze and narcotics can make you better at anything other than embarassing yourself."

"I'm with you, pal. Also, that so-called commander of theirs needs a spankin'. Who gave booze to the toddler anyway?"


Wait. Psions don't need spirituality. They just have to sit and focus themselves.

You'd find it hard to convince me that people who can warp the laws of nature by meditating or reach outside their bodies to the realm of Gods and Ghosts with their mind don't subscribe to spirituality. :smalltongue:

[Moon Wolf]

Well, I have a little bit of time to post before I'm off to graduation (augh, I'm the valedictorian!!!). I thought during class today and decided that Katarina's animal/hollow-ish/whatever it's called (:smalltongue:) should still be mythical and otherworldly, so I came up with....a unicorn! She would be stubborn, free-spirited, passionate, everything associated with that. I'm pretty sure there's no unicorn arrancar, so I'll start working on her new release. :smallsmile:

[nothingclever]

Well, I have a little bit of time to post before I'm off to graduation (augh, I'm the valedictorian!!!). I thought during class today and decided that Katarina's animal/hollow-ish/whatever it's called (:smalltongue:) should still be mythical and otherworldly, so I came up with....a unicorn! She would be stubborn, free-spirited, passionate, everything associated with that. I'm pretty sure there's no unicorn arrancar, so I'll start working on her new release. :smallsmile:
Unicorns, eh? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4)

[KnightDisciple]

You'd find it hard to convince me that people who can warp the laws of nature by meditating or reach outside their bodies to the realm of Gods and Ghosts with their mind don't subscribe to spirituality. :smalltongue::smallconfused: Really?
They're meditating to calm and order their minds. This allows them to organize their unique internal energies, which are themselves naturally tapping the Astral plane (or something, I don't know). They're manipulating energy the same way Magneto manipulates magnetism, or any telekinetic moves stuff with his brain. Transfer and application of energy. Nothing more, nothing less.


Well, I have a little bit of time to post before I'm off to graduation (augh, I'm the valedictorian!!!). I thought during class today and decided that Katarina's animal/hollow-ish/whatever it's called (:smalltongue:) should still be mythical and otherworldly, so I came up with....a unicorn! She would be stubborn, free-spirited, passionate, everything associated with that. I'm pretty sure there's no unicorn arrancar, so I'll start working on her new release. :smallsmile:Moon Wolf....I have to repeat our earlier questions. If she's so utterly "nice", why is she with murdering monsters like, well, all the rest of the Arrancar?

I mean, unless you notably change her demeanor, she'd fit in more with Soul Society than Las Noches.:smallconfused:

[Prime32]

Well, I have a little bit of time to post before I'm off to graduation (augh, I'm the valedictorian!!!). I thought during class today and decided that Katarina's animal/hollow-ish/whatever it's called (:smalltongue:) should still be mythical and otherworldly, so I came up with....a unicorn! She would be stubborn, free-spirited, passionate, everything associated with that. I'm pretty sure there's no unicorn arrancar, so I'll start working on her new release. :smallsmile:Why not a narwhal? Maybe she tells people it's a unicorn. :smalltongue:

[Draken]

And psions don't really need anything. Clerics do, but the deity only provides a channel for power. Deities and Demigods explicitly states that the cleric's training is what allows the casting of spells (it is why Gods themselves can't cast divine spells unless they have levels in divine spellcasting classes).

This, however, does not apply, because the energy to fuel kido comes from one's own reiryoku. Not from an external source like divine magic.


Reposting for anyone who might have missed it.

[Moon Wolf]

Moon Wolf....I have to repeat our earlier questions. If she's so utterly "nice", why is she with murdering monsters like, well, all the rest of the Arrancar?

I mean, unless you notably change her demeanor, she'd fit in more with Soul Society than Las Noches.:smallconfused:

Getting to that, I knew I forgot something. If she was a unicorn, then I'd probably change her to be really caring and kind towards her master, but shy and perhaps even agressive towards others. I mean, that's what my horse is like, so that's where I'm getting this from... :smalltongue:

[InyutheBeatIs]

@Moon Wolf, I actually have to say that it could look pretty awesome. But I have to echoe everbody elses' concern in that she seems too nicey-nicey to want to be hanging out with basically a bunch of cannibals and murderers (no offense). :smalltongue:

In other news, I will do my best to get a first draft of a character sheet posted today. School has been whooping me in more ways than one. :smallannoyed:

Edit: I GOT NINJA'D!!!

[Moon Wolf]

Aw, thanks! :smallredface:

Can't wait to see your character! (But since Katarina's personality is based on my horse's....she'd probably kick your character... :smallwink::smalltongue:)

[InyutheBeatIs]

No problem! And yeah, it would be interesting to see what would happen between the two characters should she decide to kick him. :smalltongue:

[Frozen_Feet]

One more rant about the Kido stuff:

:smallconfused: Really?
They're meditating to calm and order their minds. This allows them to organize their unique internal energies, which are themselves naturally tapping the Astral plane (or something, I don't know). They're manipulating energy the same way Magneto manipulates magnetism, or any telekinetic moves stuff with his brain. Transfer and application of energy. Nothing more, nothing less.

Astral plane is literally where bodies of dead gods slumber, where spirits haunt and where your mind makes it real. For a sufficiently advanced psion, his brain isn't even needed to warp reality, and neither is the rest of his body; it's literally his disembodied spirit doing most of the work. ("Organizing internal energies" or "Transfer and application of energy, nothing more, nothing less" can fit within or be the basis for a spiritual belief system, so they don't really work as counter-arguments.)

Remember the setting: there are "real dragons" around, and a psion is automatically one of those in the know. I have a very hard time imagining a character with Knowledge (psionics) past level one who doesn't acknowledge the spiritual ramifications of that knowledge to his or her worldview.

Now, if the default setting is changed to something where the basics are different, then you have a point. :smallsmile: But that's not the case in Bleach, is it? It is about spirits of the dead. Most Shinigami probably have seen gates of Hell at some point, depends on how optimistic you want to be. When there are real demons around... why would they call something "Demon arts" for fun?

@Draken: I noticed your post allright. Whatever point you tried to make flew past me, as whatever training allows a Cleric to cast spells unquestionably has mystical and spiritual aspects. It has to with gods and supernatural after all.

It might not apply to Kido in the same way, but even then, a Shinigami is a spirit using spiritual energies to affect the world of spirits. To say there aren't spiritual elements in play is a misnomer. :smalltongue:

tl;dr : the setting itself is spiritual, and taking the stance that something directly relating to afterlife and psychopomps is not is really funny to me. :smallredface:

As we might be working with different benchmarks and definitions and this all is spiralling far OOT anyway, discussing the issue further isn't really fruitfull or necessary. :smallsmile:

[Draken]

My point is just that I really see Kido as more of arcane magic than divine magic.

But then again, I have no problems with the religious view on kido practice of the new corps. But I would really prefer if it is not the only way it works.

[KnightDisciple]

The thing is, we're using the word "spiritual", but I think we're applying two different meanings.

You're using "spiritual", and applying mystical/religious overtones.

Draken and I are using "spiritual" as a literal thing. They're "spirits". As has been slammed over our heads by some, this isn't an "afterlife", it's just "another life".

Shinigami are, when you get down to it, basically metahumans. They're born with innate powers that they have to train to master. As well, they each have a unique power in the form of their zanpakutou. These aren't mystical things. They're simple facts, the way of life for these people.

What if it was labeled "elemental energy"? If the name was the only thing changed, would it radically change everything about Kido? Or would it show that "spiritual energy" is just a label for an internal well of power. One that is accessed through intentional personal training. If mysticism, prayer, and so on help someone train, that's fine. But it's not required.

Webster definition of spiritual (http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/spiritual). You seem to be interpreting it as 2 and 3, whereas Draken and I are more going with 1 and 5. In my mind, the context of Bleach makes "spiritual" just a label of the type of being using it, a "spirit". A mostly non-corporeal being existing in a state separate from the view of most mortal beings born on the physical earth.

Edit:
My point is just that I really see Kido as more of arcane magic than divine magic.

But then again, I have no problems with the religious view on kido practice of the new corps. But I would really prefer if it is not the only way it works.This, right here. My point is that people can make it into a pseudo-religious practice. But requiring that it be such is something I disagree with.

[strawberryman]

...I don't really give a hoot either way, but, uh, no one person should be able to declare how a universal tool for Shinigami is universally viewed or used.

[Frozen_Feet]

Webster definition of spiritual (http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/spiritual). You seem to be interpreting it as 2 and 3, whereas Draken and I are more going with 1 and 5. In my mind, the context of Bleach makes "spiritual" just a label of the type of being using it, a "spirit". A mostly non-corporeal being existing in a state separate from the view of most mortal beings born on the physical earth.


It's more that I think you can't have 1 and 5 without 2 and 3, but that's another matter entirely. :smallredface: In any case, I agree with you that there should be other ways of, or traditions exploring Kido. Besides that, I have little else to say.

[tgva8889]

I think how a person views kido, just like how a person views other unproven topics, should be up to them. Maybe some people view it as some kind of religious thing and consider it "heresy" to talk of it in the scientific. Maybe some people consider it a science and disregard the mystical connotations of the spells. Maybe some people don't give a hoot and see it as another ability in their Shinigami arsenal. But that's up to each individual person.

What is the problem with an Arrancar being kind? Why is it wrong to say a kind person would hang out with generally unkind people? Maybe they want her there so they can destroy her light later. Maybe she thinks she can change them. Maybe she's there because she likes the color of the flooring and no one has been able to convince her to leave. Why is it so important that her temperament "fit" a Fraccion (whatever that's supposed to mean)?

[Innis Cabal]

Wow....fine. What the hell ever. I'm not even going to bother to really tackle this. I didn't mean this as an attack on you KD, once again your taking things way the hell out of proportion. No one's allowed to ask questions about your character. So I'm not going to do it again, since all it does is make an argument, and I'm sick of it. So, just going to address the question as to why I should get a say in the way Kido operates in Soul Society.

Because it directly impacts the Division I'm working on. Why the hell do you get to decide how your Division runs? Because its the Division your working on. No one is comming in and telling people that just because Division X works the way its written that you can play it differently because you don't care for the flavor, or that you shouldn't get to run the Division because its a wide set in Soul Society, and no one should get to decide that for themselves.

Yes, its a broader tool, but its the only thing the Kido Corp works on. Why -shouldn't- their theories and ideals be the core foundation of how Soul Society views and works with Kido. They've existed for as long as the Gotei (or slightly less long), but their theories and views on Kido are just one of a multitude that seems to exist in Soul Society? Who the hell is make the other theories and methods to use Kido? Because if there are other groups doing it on a level it can compete with the Kido Corp (and its not them) why bother having a Corp at all.


Not -ONLY- that, but not bloody once did I say "This is how Kido works". I said "As far as Soul Society is concerned". I didn't say if it was correct or incorrect. Thats what the Kido Corp believes. Thats what their going to teach people. Thats what their going to teach -other- people to teach. So again I ask, why the hell should they not get a say on how Kido is viewed considering their the ones dishing out the information?

I also didn't say your character was -WRONG- in his views on how Kido works. I said that the Kido Corp thought he was incorrect. You may be attatched to your character, but it just dosn't make sense someone like him would actively just go into a Division with a great deal of knowledge that everything he believes is looked down on.

[Draken]

Looks to me like there is nothing else that needs discussing. Kido Corps teaches one way, 12th division thinks they are all drugged loons, rest of Soul Society doesn't care.

[Innis Cabal]

Why bother making the fluff at all then? If its all frankly going to be ignored, I could very well have written that kido comes from surly teenaged penguins and it would generate the same effect as taking the time to try and make kido interesting and unique in our setting other then the bland set up it has in canon.

[Frozen_Feet]

As I said, I personally like what you've done with the Corps, Innis. Some characters might belittle or ignore their teachings, or not buy the whole thing, but that doesn't invalidate your work. Kido isn't a major focus for all characters. I know I'll be incorporating some of your ideas to Hachirou and Sayuri.

All I ask is not to drag the issue down in flames. Petty infighting does not make things better.

[tgva8889]

I'm fine with Kido Corp being the main entity for teaching and having a specific method of teaching Kido. At the same time, however, there should be other views, just like there alternative views on other things. Alternative views exist on most subjects that aren't concrete, so they should exist for Kido, which is not concrete. What the "dominant" opinion is really depends on what characters show up and decide to talk about it.

Basically, I don't think any particular division should be able to decide how others think, just like I don't think any character should. If you suggest that Kido Corp teaches it in this manner, then they teach it in that manner. But just because someone is taught something doesn't mean they have to agree with it.

I also have no problem with the term "heretic." I think, KD, that you are taking the distinction too seriously.

[Draken]

I am just saying that it is not something that actually influences the day to day life of most people.

That is true for everything, really. The spin you gave to it is interesting, but it is hardly something players out of the kido corps intend to use, I believe.

And indeed. What tgva said applies too.

[Innis Cabal]

As I said, I personally like what you've done with the Corps, Innis. Some characters might belittle or ignore their teachings, or not buy the whole thing, but that doesn't invalidate your work. Kido isn't a major focus for all characters. I know I'll be incorporating some of your ideas to Hachirou and Sayuri.

All I ask is not to drag the issue down in flames. Petty infighting does not make things better.

Well, thank you. But I really feel this is a valid concern here. I'm not sure why such venom was lofted about, maybe it was the word heretic. But I'm not really sure if another word carries the same level here.

The problem is, everyone else is quick to step up and demand their Division dosn't become invalidated, made to look incompetent or otherwise suffer any negative light due to personal incompetence.

As it stands, the Kido Corp (if everyone gets a say on how their characters view kido) come out looking like incompetent (they can't even bloody keep members from going to another branch of the military), backwards (The 12th teachs their own view on Kido, and its more in line with the modernized Soul Society) loons.

But its all the Kido Corp does. They are were new Kido is made, they are the place where old kido is studied and kept archived. Their the ones who work with Kido first and foremost. Should a Division of the Gotei 13 really be able to step all over their stuff and invalidate them like that? Should any Division be able to do that? As I said above, if its the case...then there's no need what so ever for the Kido Corp if the Gotei 13 handles it all on their own.

The Kido Corp is the group that goes into the Acadamy and teachs Kido. Their the ones most suited to do so. They teach other Shinigami how to teach Kido. Because its all that concerns them. That means their idea's are the main bulk of whats getting out to the populace. Are you telling me the 12th can come in and teach a class that runs counter to the Kido Corp?

Everyone else asks players who play in their Division to follow the fluff of said Division. Why is it different when it comes to the Kido Corp? Why is it the only one people can willingly choose to ignore the fluff written simply because it dosn't suit their character when everyone else is asked to write their character with the flavor of a Division in mind?

If Kido is literaly left to the whim of every last person, there really is no reason for me to have spent as long as I did on the write up. There was no reason really for my write up at all outside of its general duties of "Well, they're one group that works on Kido." and how its set up.

There's also no reason for Takeshi, as the majority of what I wanted to explore with him will literaly not matter. There's no impact on Soul Society if he somehow comes to some great revelation about Kido. Its just a personal opinion, its no longer a revelation or earth shattering, its just one persons interpertation.

Edit:@TGVA- I haven't once said there can't be other views. There surely would be. But why is the Kido Corp's just "One of the multitude" when their the ones with their foot forward, and teaching said theories longer and louder?

[strawberryman]

Basically, I don't think any particular division should be able to decide how others think, just like I don't think any character should. If you suggest that Kido Corp teaches it in this manner, then they teach it in that manner. But just because someone is taught something doesn't mean they have to agree with it.

This. Again.

[Innis Cabal]

This. Again.

I'm not saying its the only view. I'm not even saying it should be the only view. Or that said view is even correct. I'm saying, why shouldn't the Kido Corps view not be the most widely believed? After all, their the leading experts on it.

I haven't told anyone how their character should think, and I'm starting to really get annoyed at people assuming I am. I've not invalidated anyone's opinion on the matter, and I won't. All I'm asking is that people at the very least look what I've written, and keep it in mind. I don't think thats all that much to ask for is it?

My question was. Why would someone with views so wholey and fully against the literal centuries long foundation of an entire organization willingly enter into it. Thats my question. Nothing more. Nothing less. He just dosn't seem to fit into the Kido Corp. Other leaders of Divisions have been allowed to say the very same thing to people and have it stick. So I want to know -why- he went to the Kido Corp all things taken into consideration.

[KnightDisciple]

I think I'll make some things clear for the general populace.

I'd also not intended for my character to be teaching Kido at any time. He's not a teacher. He's a researcher of Kido, inventor of Kido-related devices, and user of Kido. A "wizard", if you will.

I had created Yoshi before there was a writeup for the Kido Corps. At that time, I didn't think a wizardly approach to Kido would be so radically different to the general Kido Corps outlook.

I didn't feel like notably changing my character, but he didn't seem a good fit. So I worked that into my character. We know it's possible to change divisions by request; Renji went from 11th to 6th on his own initiative, I believe.

Is it so hard to believe that, every once in a while, someone will come along and question a standing belief on something he's heavily invested in? And that he would choose to remove himself from a potential conflict situation because of this different viewpoint?

Because that's the OOC reason I did it. I didn't want to perpetuate any sort of "clash" with other members of the Kido Corps. So I made Yoshi a bit of an "odd man out" and had him move to the SCIENCE! Division. To go with his more scientific outlook on Kido.

I never intended for it to be any more involved than that.

I objected to "heretic" because I had the impression the entire Gotei 13 were supposed to view him as one, barring a few. Something I don't agree with. If the Kido Corps views him as such, fine.

My original goal was just to have a wizard-like Kido caster, and find him a place to fit in. Complications arose, but I thought I set them aside via both OOC and IC decisions. I'm sorry it's caused turmoil, but I'm not changing my character now, out of the blue.

Edit: Regarding Yoshi entering at all.

Maybe he didn't believe it would be as pervasive as he thought. Maybe he thought his unique viewpoint would be incorporated into the greater whole (but instead was simply rejected). Maybe his viewpoint shifted to an even less mystical outlook over those 10 short years. I could reduce it to 5, I suppose. But I have him having been there at all because he is, ultimately, a Kido caster. He's just different in outlook. I'm specifically having him leave the division after a brief time (for Shinigami) because of this dissonance.

Again, he was created, with his particular outlook and method, before the super-mystical Kido Corps writeup was made.

[Draken]

They don't pass off as incompetents. You are incompetent if you can't do your job.

Their job is to catalogue, teach and develop. Their archives are up to date? Then they are doing it, they are competent. People learn to shoot fire out of their hands? Their teaching works, they are competent. They make new kidos? Their do, so yes it does, they are competent.

But (at least) one division, which is meant to be diametrically opposed to the path you went, disagrees with the views of the Corps. The other divisions don't have much concerns with that regard, and people shift squads frequently, I have no idea why so many PCs chose to leave the Kido Corps specifically, maybe some of them were not competent with kido or found better opportunities elsewhere in the military of the Seireitei.

Either way, I see no incompetence.

[Innis Cabal]

Again, he was created, with his particular outlook and method, before the super-mystical Kido Corps writeup was made.

So...my write up dosn't matter. Is that what your saying here KD? That since your guy came first, you shouldn't have to change your character? Even though we've asked, and in some cases dragged out an issue for two whole OOC threads, simply because you don't want to change your character?

I get it.

[Draken]

... That completely ignores the rest of Knight's post and takes the line utterly out of context Innis. It really does not need to be individually adressed in such a way.

[KnightDisciple]

So...my write up dosn't matter. Is that what your saying here KD? That since your guy came first, you shouldn't have to change your character? Even though we've asked, and in some cases dragged out an issue for two whole OOC threads, simply because you don't want to change your character?

I get it.I'm saying that a.)I don't want to notably change the basic personality and worldview of my character, b.)I'm trying to find an IC solution to help us explain the OOC reason for him leaving, and c.)at no point have I said you need to change the Kido Corps. At all.

I've acknowledge the difference. I've stated in character reasoning for the whole situation.

Is this not good enough?:smallconfused:

[Innis Cabal]

... That completely ignores the rest of Knight's post and takes the line utterly out of context Innis. It really does not need to be individually adressed in such a way.

I apologize, I am rather heated. I will go and address his entire post.

[tgva8889]

Logically, that view should be the most dominant. However, since you do not control a dominant portion of Soul Society, only 1/14th, I don't think that such a sweeping statement can be made accurate by you. That said, I agree that in general, people should consider that Kido Corp. is the group that teaches people about Kido and that they teach that Kido functions in Way X. But they don't have to agree.

[Innis Cabal]

I think I'll make some things clear for the general populace.

I'd also not intended for my character to be teaching Kido at any time. He's not a teacher. He's a researcher of Kido, inventor of Kido-related devices, and user of Kido. A "wizard", if you will.

I had created Yoshi before there was a writeup for the Kido Corps. At that time, I didn't think a wizardly approach to Kido would be so radically different to the general Kido Corps outlook.

I didn't feel like notably changing my character, but he didn't seem a good fit. So I worked that into my character. We know it's possible to change divisions by request; Renji went from 11th to 6th on his own initiative, I believe.

Is it so hard to believe that, every once in a while, someone will come along and question a standing belief on something he's heavily invested in? And that he would choose to remove himself from a potential conflict situation because of this different viewpoint?

Because that's the OOC reason I did it. I didn't want to perpetuate any sort of "clash" with other members of the Kido Corps. So I made Yoshi a bit of an "odd man out" and had him move to the SCIENCE! Division. To go with his more scientific outlook on Kido.

I never intended for it to be any more involved than that.

I objected to "heretic" because I had the impression the entire Gotei 13 were supposed to view him as one, barring a few. Something I don't agree with. If the Kido Corps views him as such, fine.

My original goal was just to have a wizard-like Kido caster, and find him a place to fit in. Complications arose, but I thought I set them aside via both OOC and IC decisions. I'm sorry it's caused turmoil, but I'm not changing my character now, out of the blue.

Edit: Regarding Yoshi entering at all.

Maybe he didn't believe it would be as pervasive as he thought. Maybe he thought his unique viewpoint would be incorporated into the greater whole (but instead was simply rejected). Maybe his viewpoint shifted to an even less mystical outlook over those 10 short years. I could reduce it to 5, I suppose. But I have him having been there at all because he is, ultimately, a Kido caster. He's just different in outlook. I'm specifically having him leave the division after a brief time (for Shinigami) because of this dissonance.

Again, he was created, with his particular outlook and method, before the super-mystical Kido Corps writeup was made.

1. Thats fine. The fluff of the character isn't really in question here. Nor should it be.

2. No one is asking you to change your character, other then over the Kido Corp thing. No fluff is being asked to be changed. But it shouldn't matter if your character came before, or after the write up. You knew that all Divisions were subject to change when the vote went through. Your character is great as written. I like Yoshi as a character. But ask yourself. Does he fit into the Kido Corp?

3. You answered yourself here. He dosn't seem a good fit. I agree with that. Thats what I'm trying to get at. He isn't a good fit, he's a much better fit with the 12th. Why not just start him there when he clearly dosn't belong in the Kido Corp.

4. Its not hard to believe. Again, can someone point out to me where I said there is only one way Kido is viewed? Because I don't recall saying it. I recall saying the wide view on Kido is what the Kido Corp teachs. Does anyone disagree thats how it should be?

5. Again, he does seem to fit better with the 12th. Why just not start him there? Does it change him all that much from what you've written? We've asked other people to change Divisions if they don't synch well with them. Why is this different.

6. I never said the Gotei sees him as a heretic. I actually came out right and said that the Kido Corp sees him that way. You either misunderstood or didn't read it carefully. The quote in question.


As it stands Hirako Yoshi isn't just a "Fringe" within the Kido Corp, but the entire Soul Society. Kido works (at least as far as the wide majority of Soul Society is concerned) as its written in the Kido Corp write up. He'd be more then fringe in the Corp itself, he'd be a heritic for proposing the centuries long time tested concepts where in fact needless, and that kido was a science. Would they be militant in their feelings towards him? Certainly not. But with such beliefs, he would be one in probably none in an entire division of 300 people.

It even says that he's not alone in his counter thinking against the Kido Corp. That quote there says exactly what I mean. The Kido Corp believes one way. Its not the only way. But its the majority's way, because its what they've been taught since day 1 of their training.

7. You've done well with a wizardly type kido user. And you've found a nice fit in the 12th Division. Third time here now, why does he have to dip into the Kido Corp between School and After other then because you want him to.

8. Tons of Kido Casters don't end up in the Kido Division. And I'm willing to bet its because the Kido Corp takes a certain sort of person. Thats why they number less then some Divisions. The whole of the Kido Corp is smaller then more then a few Divisions.

9. Again, why does it matter when he was made KD? The Kido Corp is how it is. Takeshi and the Corp got voted in fair and square. Everyone else has changed their character to fit, why are you resisting so much when you'd expect someone else to do this if you were not in their place.

[tgva8889]

Innis, am I wrong in saying that you're asking KD "Why should Kido Corp. have approved of Yoshi joining"? Or is that basically the question?

[KnightDisciple]

Screw it. I'll just make him a 12ther right from the start. This bickering isn't worth what I fundamentally see as a non-issue.

So long as you promise not to be mad if he invents a couple Kido here and there, or a few kido-related devices, along the way.

[Innis Cabal]

Logically, that view should be the most dominant. However, since you do not control a dominant portion of Soul Society, only 1/14th, I don't think that such a sweeping statement can be made accurate by you. That said, I agree that in general, people should consider that Kido Corp. is the group that teaches people about Kido and that they teach that Kido functions in Way X. But they don't have to agree.


That is all I am asking. The above was never part of the problem. Not even sure how it -became- the problem. I don't care if people view Kido differently. Thats not my place to dictate, nor have I once -TRIED- to dictate it.

All I asked was for people to keep the Kido Corp in mind, and it somehow got misconstrued along the way.


So long as you promise not to be mad if he invents a couple Kido here and there, or a few kido-related devices, along the way.

:smallsigh:

Why would I be mad? Other people have done it already. Can someone PLEASE! tell me where this idea and attitude is comming from that I want to be the grand despot of all Kido? Because I'm at my wits end with this.


Innis, am I wrong in saying that you're asking KD "Why should Kido Corp. have approved of Yoshi joining"? Or is that basically the question?

Thats the basic question. I figured though, being so blunt would cause an argument. The irony is staggering. But I get hammered for not being exact enough, and I get hammered when I am. I really can't seem to win when it comes to this.

[KnightDisciple]

Yoshi's backstory has been modified (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8157596&postcount=3).

Draken, let me know if the number of internship years are about right.

[Innis Cabal]

That becomes the question though: Does everyone see it as mysticism, or not?
So far, I don't see any solid argument towards the latter. I can agree that many might see it as just a tool, yes... but that doesn't imply that they see it scientifically, as opposed to mystically. It just says that they give it less reverence, and use it as they wish. Regarding it as science would still be a radical view.

I'm very sorry I missed this particular question in the hustle.

I doubt the vast majority of Kido User's really give 2 cents about the mystic and more spiritual side of Kido. I also doubt that the Kido Corp is real head strong in pounding those elements into most users unless they really focus on it. But the higher classes would indeed focus on that side of Kido. Because its deeply entrenched in said set up and pomp.

Is the psuedo-religious bent the Kido Corp takes a dominant theory in the Gotei? Probably not, because really, who gives 2 cents in battle about the Perfect Kido. Its a weapon, when its boiled down to its base. But Kido is tied to ritual and pomp all the same. You can go through the motions, say the chants, even understand the way kido works as presented as a balance between the energy around you, and the energy in you without having to care one wit about how it makes you a better person though said balance at the end of the day.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Ummm, Innis, I'm going to say your wrong. The 4th is just as involved with Kido as the Kido Corp, and I'm going to say that don't view it religously at all. At least with regards to Healing Kido, which the 4th are the undisputed experts on, it isn't viewed in a semi mystical fashion. Healing Kido is a tool, not a religous art. And getting drunk very rarely helps you do better at it, despite Ude's normally inebriated state.

---

So, there is at least one resevoir of knowledge on Kido that does not involve itself in the rituals, nor even learn it in that fashion.

[Frozen_Feet]

So, there is at least one resevoir of knowledge on Kido that does not involve itself in the rituals, nor even learn it in that fashion.

A more interesting question is: was it always so? Looking at history, 4th could've been more religious organization to a point, and then taken a more secular turn due to change in leadership or priorities. Just food for thought. :smallsmile:

[Innis Cabal]

Ya know...what ever. The Kido Corp isn't even the best at their sole function. I'll go and rework the Kido Corp so as not to conflict with the majority of the player base.

[KnightDisciple]

Ya know...what ever. The Kido Corp isn't even the best at their sole function. I'll go and rework the Kido Corp so as not to conflict with the majority of the player base.When did the Kido Corps become not the Best at "blowing **** up with kido" and "binding **** up with Kido"?

[Frozen_Feet]

Yeah. They're still the authority on Bakudo and Hado, and have much broader base for general Kido theory. 4th may have them beaten on one area, but I don't think you need to change it all because of that.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Yeah. They're still the authority on Bakudo and Hado, and have much broader base for general Kido theory. 4th may have them beaten on one area, but I don't think you need to change it all because of that.

Yeah, and I'm really not going to back down on the 4th being the undisputed masters of Healing Kido. I wouldn't mind if the KC learned it, and even taught it in the fashion you are talking about. But that is the 4th's flagship function. If they are beat at it, it doesn't make any sense for them to exist.

[Callos_DeTerran]

...I'm against it. It reaks of nepotism in the Gotei 13. I wouldn't mind so much if it was the 6th or something (with the 6th being the training division) but the 13th is so integral that I think that the most talented would rise to the top.

You wouldn't mind if it was the 5th? :smalltongue:

[Innis Cabal]

Yeah. They're still the authority on Bakudo and Hado, and have much broader base for general Kido theory. 4th may have them beaten on one area, but I don't think you need to change it all because of that.

Because the 12th is just as good or slightly worse at it? From what I gather. That may be incorrect, Draken can confirm or deny it.

As to why change it. Clearly the majority dosn't care one way or the other, or dosn't care for it. Your the only one whose expressly said you liked the fluff.

Add on that two divisions, who seperate number more then the Kido Division not only are a match or exceed the sole function of the Kido Corp...there really is no place for them to exist as it stands, or at least it seems that way.


Yeah, and I'm really not going to back down on the 4th being the undisputed masters of Healing Kido. I wouldn't mind if the KC learned it, and even taught it in the fashion you are talking about. But that is the 4th's flagship function. If they are beat at it, it doesn't make any sense for them to exist.

Why wouldn't the Kido Corp not be able to learn healing Kido?

[Tackyhillbillu]

Why wouldn't the Kido Corp not be able to learn healing Kido?

...double negative intentional or not?

Anyways, I was that I don't mind if the Kido Corp learns or teaches Healing Kido, within the organization. But the 4th are the masters of it, and if anyone teaches it at the academy, it should probably be them.

[Prime32]

Yeah, and I'm really not going to back down on the 4th being the undisputed masters of Healing Kido. I wouldn't mind if the KC learned it, and even taught it in the fashion you are talking about. But that is the 4th's flagship function. If they are beat at it, it doesn't make any sense for them to exist.4th division are healers and groundskeepers.

Kido corps seem like the Squishy Wizard archetype, whereas 4th division could be more Combat Medic.

[Tackyhillbillu]

4th division are healers and groundskeepers.

Flagship was the key word, there, Prime. Unless you consider the Janitorial Staff the flagship workers at your local hospital. :smallwink:

[Innis Cabal]

Anyways, I was that I don't mind if the Kido Corp learns or teaches Healing Kido, within the organization. But the 4th are the masters of it, and if anyone teaches it at the academy, it should probably be them.

My only real concern here Tacky is that they don't seem to really work even remotly with the Kido Corp. Which...seems odd to me. They are so good at a specialty of a specialty that they don't require the organization that over sees kido research, the archives of all kido, etc.


@The "Wizards Guild/Squishy Battle Mage"- I was trying to take the Kido Corp down a different direction. I see its not been well recived. I'll change them to be more in line with the Battle Mage Guild so I'm not stepping on anyone's toes.

[Steilos]

Going to have to agree with the healers being the undisputed master of Healing Kido. Sure, it means the Kido Corps aren't the best at all the areas, but if the medical corps isn't the best healers, why have them? It stands to reason that the medics get all the medical toys they need because it's not like anyone else can really use them like the 4th. But there might be a compromise, regardless:

What I'm getting from the Kido Corps right now is 'Kido researchers', in light of all this... let's just be polite and call it 'discussion'. What could work is if the Kido Corps is a fount of Kido knowledge. By that I mean that although the Kido know the most of every variation of that art, their primary role is to firstly invent even more of the stuff, and secondly spread it around to those that need it. Now, I propose a distinction between 'knowing' and 'using' here.

How about this:
The Kido Corp are good at using Kido, but their main speciality lies in research (this doesn't have to be scientific, btw).
On the other hand... Say, the 4th Division don't really have much in the way of research, but they are significantly better at using healing Kido than the Kido Corps.

So it would go like this:
Kido corps learns new healing Kido, tests it out, and hands it over to the 4th. This way, the Kido corps usually knows more healing methods at any given instant than the 4th, as stuff takes time to be properly tested but can be rolled out in an emergency, but the 4th is better at using the ones they have.

Ok, so the KC is no longer the best at everything Kido. But you're treading on each other's toes less. Also, nothing is stopping you form being all round best at the others.

Please note that this is a suggestion. I'm highlighting this just to show that I'm not telling anyone what to do, because that seems to be casuing problems.

EDIT: The heck did that wink at the top come from?

[Kuroimaken]

Personally, if asked on the matter, I feel that many people would simply go, "Kidou is Kidou. You say a few things, focus reiatsu a certain way, and the hollows go boom" and that would be the end of it.

I can understand where Innis is coming from - if his entire division's view of how Kidou works, where it comes from and whatnot is mostly disregarded or ignored, it could certainly come across to some as being unnecessary (considering that one of its main goals is research, not knowing the nature of Kidou and using it anyway could be considered something akin to not knowing where a Vizard's powers come from and using them nilly-willy. Yes, Vizard powers come from control of the inner Hollow and it is very, very obvious that the masks are similar to those of Hollows; however, if not for these very obvious ties, there would not necessarily be any immediate concern regarding Vizards at all).

It does come to mind that, when it comes to the nature of spiritual particles, they tend to have a whole subset of physics all their own. There COULD be some tension between the Kidou Corps. and the 12th division as to the origins of Kidou and/or the universe. They might be split over the fact that spiritual particles move in a very certain way, according to laws not unlike those of physics, and yet respond to a series of rituals and incantations that, in themselves, seem much more mystical and arcane (I'm purposely avoiding the religious considerations here, as you may have guessed). Either way, neither seems to have the upper hand over the other; the personal outlook of each Shinigami could vary EXACTLY because of that.

Though that's just my 2 yen anyway.

[Tackyhillbillu]

My only real concern here Tacky is that they don't seem to really work even remotly with the Kido Corp. Which...seems odd to me. They are so good at a specialty of a specialty that they don't require the organization that over sees kido research, the archives of all kido, etc.

It is because they aren't really all that interested in the Kido Corp. I'd say that there are some who lend their expertise to the Kido Corp (and the 12th) when asked, and do their own research into Healing Kido.

But the Healers of the 4th view themselves as Healers before anything else. Healing Kido is just a tool to them, nothing more.

As well... Healing Kido doesn't really fit into the whole general schema of things. It doesn't have the rituals and such that the other two branches of Kido have. I don't think there would be any archives of Healing Kido, because there aren't any Healing Kido 'spells' persay, like we see in the tother two areas.

[KnightDisciple]

*snip*For the sake of your post and this thread, I'd ask you remove the specific analogy to real life. Tempers are already running high here. That's just fuel for the fire.

[Steilos]

For the sake of your post and this thread, I'd ask you remove the specific analogy to real life. Tempers are already running high here. That's just fuel for the fire.


Seriously, we are talking high-octane fuel here. Like, kerosene. Things appear to be cooling down now, let's keep it that way.

Also, if there's no real specific spells for healing, then as I said, nothing is stopping KC from researching other healing methods other than spells involving Kido. For the results of this, albeit a very rare result, see Hannibal.

[Kuroimaken]

Consider it removed... though the point remains.

[Innis Cabal]

Alright. So the Kido Corp arn't the best at healing kido. They arn't the best at blowing crap up (regardless if this is linked to Hado or no) because that gets to go to the 12th and their crazy inventions. So, that really leaves the Kido Corp being the best at Bakudo.

They can be the best little researchers they want to be. The Gotei really dosn't need them. Their gadgets and the 12th's own kido can more then make up the difference and ignore their research. The Kido Corp are -allowed- to research healing Kido, as it seems to be stated.

So, what exactly is the role here for them folks? Because even if I am asked not to change the fluff, as I've now been asked by two people, I still have to go in and change them. Because apparently they can't be what I intended them to be.

Do we even need a Kido Corp? Because its looking like the Gotei 13 has it all handled without one. Should I drop the Kido Corp and Takeshi utterly? Because at the moment they really don't serve a role.

[Steilos]

Alright. So the Kido Corp arn't the best at healing kido. They arn't the best at blowing crap up (regardless if this is linked to Hado or no) because that gets to go to the 12th and their crazy inventions. So, that really leaves the Kido Corp being the best at Bakudo...
Do we even need a Kido Corp? Because its looking like the Gotei 13 has it all handled without one. Should I drop the Kido Corp and Takeshi utterly? Because at the moment they really don't serve a role.
(quote shortened for length. I am quoting the entire post)

What I was trying to get at was centralised research. The only division with people who actually know how to research Kido are the Kido Corps. The Divisions responsible still get to mess with gadgets because it's apples and oranges. KC does the kido, Gotei does the gadgets, Gotei helps KC with said gadgets, and has their Kido research performed. This will require ALL divisions involved to tinker with roles to fit, which is why I'm not trying to do anything other than throw it out there.

[Innis Cabal]

(quote shortened for length. I am quoting the entire post)

What I was trying to get at was centralised research. The only division with people who actually know how to research Kido are the Kido Corps. The Divisions responsible still get to mess with gadgets because it's apples and oranges. KC does the kido, Gotei does the gadgets, Gotei helps KC with said gadgets, and has their Kido research performed. This will require ALL divisions involved to tinker with roles to fit, which is why I'm not trying to do anything other than throw it out there.

I don't think many people are going to be wild over that idea. Not that its not a good one, I just don't see people liking the idea that only the Kido Corp knows the secrets to making new kido.

[Frozen_Feet]

Alright. So the Kido Corp arn't the best at healing kido. They arn't the best at blowing crap up (regardless if this is linked to Hado or no) because that gets to go to the 12th and their crazy inventions. So, that really leaves the Kido Corp being the best at Bakudo.

They can be the best little researchers they want to be. The Gotei really dosn't need them. Their gadgets and the 12th's own kido can more then make up the difference and ignore their research. The Kido Corp are -allowed- to research healing Kido, as it seems to be stated.

So, what exactly is the role here for them folks? Because even if I am asked not to change the fluff, as I've now been asked by two people, I still have to go in and change them. Because apparently they can't be what I intended them to be.

Do we even need a Kido Corp? Because its looking like the Gotei 13 has it all handled without one. Should I drop the Kido Corp and Takeshi utterly? Because at the moment they really don't serve a role.

I'd say Bakudo alone is a pretty hefty chunk of importance, as that school of magic contains most of the few things capable of imprisoning and nullifying exceedingly powerful spirits. Bakudo, as a whole, contains all utility spells, such as invisibility or telepathy, which would be very hard to replicate scientifically. Combined with being second best at blowing stuff up, and second best in healing, I'd say they're pretty solid unit.

[KnightDisciple]

Consider it removed... though the point remains.I hate to prod, but the line's still there.

[Innis Cabal]

I'd say Bakudo alone is a pretty hefty chunk of importance, as that school of magic contains most of the few things capable of imprisoning and nullifying exceedingly powerful spirits. Bakudo, as a whole, contains all utility spells, such as invisibility or telepathy, which would be very hard to replicate scientifically. Combined with being second best at blowing stuff up, and second best in healing, I'd say they're pretty solid unit.

But that means they are only second or even third best at Kido as a whole. Why bother with a whole Corp if they're not really the prime cut of Kido Users? What function do they serve in being second teir to the Gotei in every regard?

Every function they've now been cut down to can just be divvyed up and sent to the factions that are better at what the Kido Corps sole function is.

[Kuroimaken]

I hate to prod, but the line's still there.

Would you care to point it exactly? So I don't need to guess.

[KnightDisciple]

Edit: Thank you kindly, Kuroi.

[Kuroimaken]

Got it. One moment, please.

EDIT: Changed. Hopefully the point remains understandable without touching sensitivities.

[Frozen_Feet]

But that means they are only second or even third best at Kido as a whole. Why bother with a whole Corp if they're not really the prime cut of Kido Users? What function do they serve in being second teir to the Gotei in every regard?

Every function they've now been cut down to can just be divvyed up and sent to the factions that are better at what the Kido Corps sole function is.

Note: 12th might create bigger explosions, but they aren't really the authority in Hado; they're just authority in explosions. :smalltongue: Hado, as a whole, has other things in it, powerful effects that warp time and space in manner unreplicable by science.

Same can be said of 4th: they're best in healing, but healing isn't only Kido, and Kido isn't only healing. Kido Corps still has a place as the archiver of healing spells, and perhaps researchers of the more obscure ones; after all, 4th doesn't deal with high-level Hado with same frequency, so Kdo Corps might be the source of those healing techniques that deal with, say, being turned to a toad.

And then there's Bakudo; there's no other division which really focuses on research and development of that.

Some Kido research might happen outside of Kido Corps, but that'd be more on personal than organizational level; 12th is the only other place that has resources for large-scale testing, and it's more busy with other things. Besides, all Kido researches would likely either be trained by or transferred from Kido Corps anyway. As Kido Corps is outside of Gotei 13, you can think of it as a university: it's the place that supplies Gotei with Kido practitioners. As far as I read, that's not something that's being taken away.

Overall, Kido Corps still is strongest in Kido, and still has a place not fulfilled by other divisions. I think you're overreacting slightly.

[Prime32]

What if the Kido Corps were merged with one of the squads?

[Frozen_Feet]

What if the Kido Corps were merged with one of the squads?

12th would be the most logical solution, but it would require a major overhaul of both units. Personally, I like the idea of separate Kido Corps.

I'm also feeling the problem is being overblown a bit right now - no-one doubted the viability of separate Kido Corps prior to now. Innis even had clearly established what makes them different in feel and function to rest of the Gotei - the current debacle is mainly because he's getting the impression no-one likes his version, everyone would just ignore it, and the the whole unit is overshadowed by the Gotei.

[Kuroimaken]

That'd raise the issue of which one to merge them with. Each would have their own reason NOT to.

Keep in mind that the 4th are only the most widespread practitioners of healing Kidou. They are, for all effects and purposes, the logistics division of anything not related to recruitment and replacement. It's unlikely such a specialized division has the resources or manpower to spare to do actual research and testing. Further, healing Kidou is, in and of itself, fairly simple as a specialty. To use D&D as an example, all they have is the Cure X line of spells, not Remove Disease/Curse/etc. (otherwise Byakuya's wife wouldn't have died).

The 12th's scientific approach to research is also more likely to yield results on a MUCH slower basis. The scientific method is, by necessity, a very slow process. Even when/if an individual researcher at 12th develops new Kidou, it'd be a painstakingly long process.
(This is more a suggestion than anything. After all, none of us can say for sure what Kidou research actually entails.)

[Tackyhillbillu]

ThKeep in mind that the 4th are only the most widespread practitioners of healing Kidou. They are, for all effects and purposes, the logistics division of anything not related to recruitment and replacement. It's unlikely such a specialized division has the resources or manpower to spare to do actual research and testing. Further, healing Kidou is, in and of itself, fairly simple as a specialty. To use D&D as an example, all they have is the Cure X line of spells, not Remove Disease/Curse/etc. (otherwise Byakuya's wife wouldn't have died).

Ummmm, I'm going to disagree with this statement. The 4th isn't that A. incompetent, or B. overworked. They can and will do research, though such a process would likely entail speaking with both the 12th and the 4th. Furthermore, I don't think Healing Kido is all that limited. Byakuya's wife may have had an incurable disease for some reason or another (as well as Captain Tuberculosis) but they can and will do their best. Diseases, they probably can't out right wipe out with Healing Kido, but they can treat a lot of the symptomns with them.

[Frozen_Feet]

I have a gnawing feeling not everyone is up to date of what Kido Corps is under Innis's vision. For reminder, here's the write-up for the unit. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8573957&postcount=1469)

For comparison:
4th Division (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8158671&postcount=8)
12th Division (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8187927&postcount=17)

No other division has shown great interest in research and development of Kido; they're purely in for practical application. Sure, they mention training Kido, but those trainers have to come from somwhere, don't they?

Kido Corps, as an organization outside of Gotei, is a natural supplier of practiced magicians for the Gotei. Innis's main concern was that despite this, the view Kido Corps teaches would be ignored by and large. (Now it is whether the whole unit should exist, which I think is slightly over-reacting.)

I think Kido Corps, as presented, is fine. It has its own unique feel and purpose. The question is, does it really need to change? Are its views so outlandish we really want them to be different? If they're left as is, will majority just ignore them, or deny them any importance for the story? -_-

[Prime32]

Ummmm, I'm going to disagree with this statement. The 4th isn't that A. incompetent, or B. overworked. They can and will do research, though such a process would likely entail speaking with both the 12th and the 4th. Furthermore, I don't think Healing Kido is all that limited. Byakuya's wife may have had an incurable disease for some reason or another (as well as Captain Tuberculosis) but they can and will do their best. Diseases, they probably can't out right wipe out with Healing Kido, but they can treat a lot of the symptomns with them.I would have said that they can treat diseases through knowledge of traditional medicine (we know they have this), as well as healing zanpakuto (presumably almost everyone with such an ability gets put in 4th division). I don't think we've ever seen them cure a disease with that hand-glowy thing.

So yeah, they don't need to be the best at healing kido to be the best at healing.

[Kuroimaken]

I would have said that they can treat diseases through knowledge of traditional medicine (we know they have this), as well as healing zanpakuto (presumably almost everyone with such an ability gets put in 4th division). I don't think we've ever seen them cure a disease with that hand-glowy thing.

My point exactly.

Further, I did not mean to imply that the 4th is incompetent - but it DOES look fairly overworked. Captain Tuberculosis feels like a huge mystery to me because his specific disease isn't all that hard to treat (in fact, modern-world wise, it's all but extinguished by now). Maybe conventional medicine isn't all that advanced in Soul Society, as opposed to the mortal world.

[KnightDisciple]

My point exactly.

Further, I did not mean to imply that the 4th is incompetent - but it DOES look fairly overworked. Captain Tuberculosis feels like a huge mystery to me because his specific disease isn't all that hard to treat (in fact, modern-world wise, it's all but extinguished by now). Maybe conventional medicine isn't all that advanced in Soul Society, as opposed to the mortal world.Or maybe we can actually let our 4th cure at least some diseases. :smalltongue:

Again, we're diverging from canon in several points already. Why not give 4th more room to treat and cure disease?

[Kuroimaken]

I was just offering my viewpoint based on canon. I really have no idea why Kubo apparently needed the 4th to look incompetent in his work.

Either way, healing doesn't exactly lend itself to such a large variety of possibilities. It's a fairly specialized area, which could be summed up as organical repair, as it were.

[Frozen_Feet]

Either way, healing doesn't exactly lend itself to such a large variety of possibilities. It's a fairly specialized area, which could be summed up as organical repair, as it were.

You're forgetting that there's a large number of special attacks and abilities causing injuries that might need special measures to mend. Even countering all normal diseases, poisons and wounds is a chore, and then there are curses, enchantments, transformations and the like to keep up.

But yeah, like said, healing isn't the extent of Kido, and Kido isn't the extent of healing. There's room and reason for both 4th and Kido Corps.

[Tackyhillbillu]

On Captain Tuberculosis... the fact is, Captain Tuberculosis isn't human, and his disease isn't Tuberculosis. It is something that looks and acts like it, but it isn't it.

---

On the issue of Healing Kido... if they aren't the best at it... I'm probably going to ask to switch to another division as Captain, or make Ude somebody's VC.

My conception of Healing Kido is thus. It can strenghten or diminish the bodies natural response to things. Healing Kido can close a wound, because that is what would happen if the person was kept alive, and left to heal. They can diminish a fever, because that is how the body reacts. They can't destroy a disease, because Healing Kido doesn't destroy. They'd have to use drugs and such for that. But they can strengthen the patients immune system (dangerous, but doable.) They can treat diseases, by keeping their symptomns from killing the person with the disease.

[Kuroimaken]

It's a perfectly good view, I'd say.

If they end up succumbing anyway, it's their own fault for their organisms being weak.

[Frozen_Feet]

I think it's a good take as well, and I think it fits with how Kido Corps would view the manner; after all, radical body modulation is not encouraged.

Which reminds me of the "experimental healing technique" Hannibal will have the misfortune of going through. Maybe it had something to do with removing a non-ordinary toxin from his system, or regenerating a lost limb; those both seem to be outside the normal scope of 4th's kido, but 12th probably could've come up with some wacky invention. Maybe a fresh transfer from Kido Corps was responsible. XD

Remember also that it was two centuries ago. It might have been something like an organ transplant, something that later on was taken to wide use in the 4th but was new back then. Pick as many as apply. :smalltongue:

[Innis Cabal]

@Frozen- Thank you for taking invested interest in this and working to clear things up. It is possible I am slightly over reacting.

@The Rest- I think Frozen is correct in saying that people are not quite aware of the changes and the level of detail I have attempted to put into our games Kido. I will, for everyone's sake extrapolate and post the nit and grit here for everyone to read.

The Path of Outer Kido is separated into four distinct categories, two based on the Yin principle and two based on the Yang Principle. These four arts make up the foundation of Kido as far as the Kido Corp are concerned, kido spells that do not fit into any one category as simply referred to as De. The perfect kido is referred to as Wuji or “The Ultimate” or “The Infinite” while all other Kido are known under the term Taiji, or “The Boundless”.

Bakudō (Yin): The art of binding and defensive Kido. Bakudō also covers barrier magic, separating it from canon Bleach in such spells are not classified under any particular type of kido.

Qi (Yin): The art of closing wounds and mending the world around you. Kido of this school not only bind wounds, help in the curing of diseases and curing the physical and mental state of a being healthy again, Qi can also mend walls, cause plant life to grow, and even tame beasts. Qi is widely studied outside of the Kido Corp by the 4th Division, referred to as the Healing Arts.

Hadō (Yang): The art of destructive power. Hadō is further split into the five classical Chinese elements, known as Wu Xing depending on the spell. Hadō spells also cover any Kido that transforms the body, though these kido are rare and often times banned under Kido Corp laws.

Fire (Huǒ): All energy, lightning and fire based kido are found under the Fire Wu Xing. The most destructive Kido are found in this element.

Water (Shuǐ): The Water Wu Xing is often times considered a broader school, consisting of both powerful water and iced based kido. The fluid nature of this element makes such spells difficult to predict.

Metal (Jīn): Metal Wu Xing are rigid, often times physically summoned attacks

Earth (Tǔ): The stable element, Earth Wu Xing is the middle ground of Hado. Such Kido stress slow yet diligent attacks, as well as attacks that are difficult to deflect due to their weight. Like Metal Wu Xing, Earth Wu Xing are often physically summoned, unlike the other three sub-sections.

Wood (Mù): Like its element, Wood Wu Xing are known for their flexible yet strong nature. Kido of this school often leech life from their foes, as well as growing of their own volition, creating powerful and often times rampant effects.

Wu Wei (Yang): The art of action, these kido spells are categorized for their use in and out of combat to expedite or tactically aid a Shinigami. This includes teleportation, communication, or long distance viewing.

De (Balanced): Kido of this class do not fit into any specified grouping. The number of De Kido is fairly small, as the Kido Corp attempts at every chance to re-organize them into a known Taiji.

[Draken]

For everyone saying the kido corps are wizards... Wu Jen and Shugenja are actually 150% better fits. Even the arcane spellcasting Wu Jen is quite spiritualized.

On the 12th division and Kido... They might have equivalent theory to the Corps, if only because that kind of information would most likely be stored in a single library avaiable by the entirety of the seireitei. But their theory would split off and deviate completely from the Kido Corps past a very early point.

At this stage, it is a matter of Shugenjas and Wu Jens (KC) vs Wizards and Archivists (12th). And off to the side, where no one cares, we have the 4th division Healers, made all the lamer because unicorns (save for one I guess) don't exist in Bleach so that particular class feature is toast.

Kido theory is, however, by no means a central focus of 12th. Only of the small base of researchers centered on that subject (and do recall that my version of 12th has a really tiny roster of actual, paid, members).

So yeah. The 12th does not have the sheer volume of research into Kido as the KC, Kido is just another science in the long list of sciences that they research.

[Innis Cabal]

For everyone saying the kido corps are wizards... Wu Jen and Shugenja are actually 150% better fits. Even the arcane spellcasting Wu Jen is quite spiritualized.

On the 12th division and Kido... They might have equivalent theory to the Corps, if only because that kind of information would most likely be stored in a single library avaiable by the entirety of the seireitei. But their theory would split off and deviate completely from the Kido Corps past a very early point.

At this stage, it is a matter of Shugenjas and Wu Jens (KC) vs Wizards and Archivists (12th). And off to the side, where no one cares, we have the 4th division Healers, made all the lamer because unicorns (save for one I guess) don't exist in Bleach so that particular class feature is toast.

Kido theory is, however, by no means a central focus of 12th. Only of the small base of researchers centered on that subject (and do recall that my version of 12th has a really tiny roster of actual, paid, members).

So yeah. The 12th does not have the sheer volume of research into Kido as the KC, Kido is just another science in the long list of sciences that they research.

Alright, that does clear it up. Thank you draken.

And I hope Taky, the above clarifies where I'm comming from. Healing Kido under how I have it written is a subsection of Qi. I won't dispute that the 4th (and I never disputed this fact ever) is better at healing then the Kido Corps. But them being the penultimate masters of Qi seems odd to me, considering they are so focused on saving lives. Where as that is not really the over all focus of actual "Healing Kido" to use canon Bleach terms. Healing Kido is a wide school that heals more then just bodies of Shinigami or mortals. Its the focus of using Kido to mend and heal the world, and all thats in it.

The other issue I had, was the idea that the Gotei don't go to the Kido for help. Its been clarified that the 12th does in fact do this, considering its not even close to a major focus for them. But its still unclear as to wheter the 4th Division really bothers with the Kido Corp. As written, I read it as they sometimes go to lend a hand to them, but its not often and they don't really reap any good or ill from it.

[Frozen_Feet]

<a collection of D&D in-jokes>

Thank you, Draken, for cheering me up and giving me a good laugh. m(_._)m

[Tackyhillbillu]

Alright, that does clear it up. Thank you draken.

And I hope Taky, the above clarifies where I'm comming from. Healing Kido under how I have it written is a subsection of Qi. I won't dispute that the 4th (and I never disputed this fact ever) is better at healing then the Kido Corps. But them being the penultimate masters of Qi seems odd to me, considering they are so focused on saving lives. Where as that is not really the over all focus of actual "Healing Kido" to use canon Bleach terms. Healing Kido is a wide school that heals more then just bodies of Shinigami or mortals. Its the focus of using Kido to mend and heal the world, and all thats in it.

The other issue I had, was the idea that the Gotei don't go to the Kido for help. Its been clarified that the 12th does in fact do this, considering its not even close to a major focus for them. But its still unclear as to wheter the 4th Division really bothers with the Kido Corp. As written, I read it as they sometimes go to lend a hand to them, but its not often and they don't really reap any good or ill from it.

I am... not a huge fan of your conception of Healing Kido, Innis. There are a number of reasons for that. It causes the 4th to step all over other peoples toes, or means that they aren't the best at the only discipline that they really study.

Innis, here is the deal. You don't want the Kido Corp to be eclipsed by the other divisions. I want the same for the 4th. I don't want the 4th to just be the operational arm of the Kido Corp. Your conception makes them seem like that. A true master of Qi from the Kido Corp could do everything someone from the 4th could do, plus way more. That really bothers me.

---

On the other issue, perhaps I wasn't clear:

I meant to say that the 4th does do it's own research into healing (including Healing Kido (not really going to budge on that.)) In the process, that would most likely entail speaking to the 12th and KC, depending on the appropriateness of their expertise. In turn, the 4th would be available for consults on developments in Healing to the 12th and the KC as well. Your Kido Corp would prove more of a challenge working with, due to the fact that the mysticism of the division, but their knowledge, and the texts they have hoarded would make it worthwhile.

[horngeek]

Go to the TRD Rokugan books.
:smalltongue:

So, where do Void spells fit in all this, then?

[Innis Cabal]

Go to the TRD Rokugan books.
:smalltongue:

So, where do Void spells fit in all this, then?

Considering its a Japanese element, and not Chinese, no where :smalltongue: If it had to be quantified, it would be the Perfect Kido. It isn't, but if there were to be a Void, it would be that.


I am... not a huge fan of your conception of Healing Kido, Innis. There are a number of reasons for that. It causes the 4th to step all over other peoples toes, or means that they aren't the best at the only discipline that they really study.

Innis, here is the deal. You don't want the Kido Corp to be eclipsed by the other divisions. I want the same for the 4th. I don't want the 4th to just be the operational arm of the Kido Corp. Your conception makes them seem like that. A true master of Qi from the Kido Corp could do everything someone from the 4th could do, plus way more. That really bothers me.

I'm honestly not crazy about re-working the Qi aspect of Kido to be frank with you Taky. I don't see how the set up of Qi causes the 4th to step on anyone's toes. In fact, it seperates the two from one another as far as I can see.

The Fourth is still the best at the Healing Arts. The Kido Corp really dosn't need to focus on that, and its one of the major things that the 4th does. On the "Operational Arm of the Kido Corp". I'm not sure how or where your getting that...they don't tell the 4th how to use the healing kido. They just research it. Thats what the Kido Corp does. They research Kido to share with Soul Society. They can't control how the 4th uses it. They have no power what so ever with the 4th. The 4th can keep researching the Healing Arts all they want. No where has it been said that the Kido Corp is against that either.

But Healing Arts is akin to the Wu Xiang. Its a section of a broader school and study known as Qi. Does that make the Kido Corp step on the toes of the 4th? No. The Kido Corp focus on other parts of the Qi school, its relation to the other schools and the wider effects on the world around them. They arn't concerned with healing people. There's the 4th for that. Does the 4th step on the toes of the Kido Corp? No. Because all they care about is healing the sick and injuired and finding better ways to do it. Their still the best at the Healing Arts. They just arn't the best at Qi. You can be the best dang heart surgon in the world, but chances are your orthodontistry is going to suffer. You can be the best chef in the world but its totally possible you just can't bake. Its possible to be the best at something, and still not be the best at what its apart of.

How does having two functions of a single school cause the 4th to step on anyone's toes? They arn't just healers. They literaly dwarf the Kido Corp by 4 times as many people. They're over all duties as a Division also completly overshadow the Kido Corp, which just has one singular duty to all of Soul Society.


I meant to say that the 4th does do it's own research into healing (including Healing Kido (not really going to budge on that.)) In the process, that would most likely entail speaking to the 12th and KC, depending on the appropriateness of their expertise. In turn, the 4th would be available for consults on developments in Healing to the 12th and the KC as well. Your Kido Corp would prove more of a challenge working with, due to the fact that the mysticism of the division, but their knowledge, and the texts they have hoarded would make it worthwhile.

I haven't told you to budge on them researching their own stuff. And I'm not going to try to make you. But I'm not going to budge on the write up for the Qi. Its a happy medium thats existed since day 1 of the Kido Corp.

[Kuroimaken]

If Qi in this case is such a broad cathegory of Kidou, what's the harm in letting the 4th being the undisputed masters/researchers of the organic healing side while the Kidou Corps. handles the parts that mend everything else? Feels to me as though that would satisfy both sides.

In fact, I feel like the two divisions should be closer than they are (as written right now), but remaining with separate duties.

[Innis Cabal]

If Qi in this case is such a broad cathegory of Kidou, what's the harm in letting the 4th being the undisputed masters/researchers of the organic healing side while the Kidou Corps. handles the parts that mend everything else? Feels to me as though that would satisfy both sides.

In fact, I feel like the two divisions should be closer than they are (as written right now), but remaining with separate duties.

Nothing. I've said that at least 3 times in the above post.

[Kuroimaken]

I was typing out my post while you were posting, so I didn't see it until afterwards. :smallbiggrin:

[Innis Cabal]

No worries. But it is exactly what I'm saying. There has never been an issue with the 4th being the best at the Healing Arts. It was, and still is, assumed in the very write up of the Kido Corp.

[Tackyhillbillu]

I'm honestly not crazy about re-working the Qi aspect of Kido to be frank with you Taky. I don't see how the set up of Qi causes the 4th to step on anyone's toes. In fact, it seperates the two from one another as far as I can see.

The Fourth is still the best at the Healing Arts. The Kido Corp really dosn't need to focus on that, and its one of the major things that the 4th does. On the "Operational Arm of the Kido Corp". I'm not sure how or where your getting that...they don't tell the 4th how to use the healing kido. They just research it. Thats what the Kido Corp does. They research Kido to share with Soul Society. They can't control how the 4th uses it. They have no power what so ever with the 4th. The 4th can keep researching the Healing Arts all they want. No where has it been said that the Kido Corp is against that either.

But Healing Arts is akin to the Wu Xiang. Its a section of a broader school and study known as Qi. Does that make the Kido Corp step on the toes of the 4th? No. The Kido Corp focus on other parts of the Qi school, its relation to the other schools and the wider effects on the world around them. They arn't concerned with healing people. There's the 4th for that. Does the 4the 4th step on the toes of the Kido Corp? No. Because all they care about is healing the sick and injuired and finding better ways to do it. Their still the best at the Healing Arts. They just arn't the best at Qi. You can be the best dang heart surgon in the world, but chances are your orthodontistry is going to suffer. You can be the best chef in the world but its totally possible you just can't bake. Its possible to be the best at something, and still not be the best at what its apart of.

How does having two functions of a single school cause the 4th to step on anyone's toes? They arn't just healers. They literaly dwarf the Kido Corp by 4 times as many people. They're over all duties as a Division also completly overshadow the Kido Corp, which just has one singular duty to all of Soul Society.

I haven't told you to budge on them researching their own stuff. And I'm not going to try to make you. But I'm not going to budge on the write up for the Qi. Its a happy medium thats existed since day 1 of the Kido Corp.

Well, on the multiple functions of Qi, because alot of those functions you assign to Qi are things that the other divisions took up. Repairing Walls, caring for animals, growing plants? Those are the responsibilities of other divisions.

And my other worry is, if the Healing Arts is truly just a part of some greater school, can the 4th really get to be the best at Healing people without being the best at all the other functions. A Heart Surgeon may not be a very good orthodontist, but he does know quite a bit about the brain, kidneys, and all the other functions of the body, in order to do a good job at his field. Beyond that, Doctors learn some chemistry, psychology, and biology just as a part of their job. If I just train at being a Cardiac Surgeon, I will not be very good at my job.

So can someone advance to the pinnical of the Healing Arts, without mastering the rest of Qi? If so, it damages your conception, because it makes the schools seem like artifical constructs, rather then useful descriptors. And if your KC is really trying to create the 'perfect Kido' why would the ignore Healing Kido. I would think the creation of it would require mastery of pretty much everything.

[Innis Cabal]

Well, on the multiple functions of Qi, because alot of those functions you assign to Qi are things that the other divisions took up. Repairing Walls, caring for animals, growing plants? Those are the responsibilities of other divisions.

And my other worry is, if the Healing Arts is truly just a part of some greater school, can the 4th really get to be the best at Healing people without being the best at all the other functions. A Heart Surgeon may not be a very good orthodontist, but he does know quite a bit about the brain, kidneys, and all the other functions of the body, in order to do a good job at his field. Beyond that, Doctors learn some chemistry, psychology, and biology just as a part of their job. If I just train at being a Cardiac Surgeon, I will not be very good at my job.

So can someone advance to the pinnical of the Healing Arts, without mastering the rest of Qi? If so, it damages your conception, because it makes the schools seem like artifical constructs, rather then useful descriptors. And if your KC is really trying to create the 'perfect Kido' why would the ignore Healing Kido. I would think the creation of it would require mastery of pretty much everything.

Yes, it does fall to other Divisions. One can only assume that such spells are used by said Divisions. They may very well be highly advanced or even better then the Kido Corp in said special fields. There isn't a dispute on that. And there never was. The Kido Corp dosn't use their spells soley to aid themselves, they use them to help Soul Society. So the 7th Divison would get the neat Kido that can help repair structures and things of that nature. The 11th would get the more specialized Kido that help grow dying plants. Divisions that use Hado would get the better Hado. The 10th would get the better Bakudo. The tactical divisions would get the better Wu Wei. Seeing a trend? The Kido Corp arn't the best at any single one Kido. Their the best at Kido over all, because thats what they work with. They arn't specialized like the Gotei. They are just one single Division.

And there's nothing saying that the 4th can't be good or great at the rest of the Qi. Thats not what your arguing against Taky. Your saying they're the best at healing the physical body (And probably the mental state of a person as well, not sure). Again, there was never an issue with this. Ever. I'm getting tired of saying this. But the rest of it, like your example, they don't focus on the rest of what makes up the Qi. They are only concerned with healing the body.

As for it being "artifical". They all tie together. They are all concerned with healing, fixing, mending and bringing things back to a state of fullness. Mind, Body, Soul and World. If you'd like I can further divide the school of Qi into those four sections, with the 4th being the masters of the Body section of Qi, known as the Healing Arts. Which they've always been the masters of.

The last point. I also didn't say they ignored the Healing Arts. I said they don't need to focus on it. Its not what their about. Their about the relation of the whole Qi in relation to the other four pieces of the grand puzzle as laid out by them. They don't focus on any particular section to the extreme. Thats an unbalanced system, and as seen, they are about the balance of Kido.

[Kuroimaken]

It comes to mind that the Kidou Corps. probably have no idea what the 'Perfect Kidou' is even supposed to do, much less what it should be composed of, otherwise they'd have it already.


A Heart Surgeon may not be a very good orthodontist, but he does know quite a bit about the brain, kidneys, and all the other functions of the body, in order to do a good job at his field. Beyond that, Doctors learn some chemistry, psychology, and biology just as a part of their job. If I just train at being a Cardiac Surgeon, I will not be very good at my job.

While he does know plenty about the other organs, a surgeon is primarily prized due to his hands. He has to understand what needs to be done and how - however, why it got to that point and which procedure is necessary tends to be decided by other doctors. Surgeons are, by and large, not specialized in diagnostics outside their fields. Sure he knows a mass in the right ventricle is a bad thing, or that over-inflated lungs could end up compressing the heart, but he's still only an expert as far as the heart is concerned, and thus unlikely to operate on other organs, however close they may be to the heart.

[horngeek]

The 11th would get the more specialized Kido that help grow dying plants.

What. :smallconfused:

[Innis Cabal]

What. :smallconfused:

I thought they were farmers? Which Division is that? :smallconfused:

[KnightDisciple]

Boo's writeup has the 11th tending a variety of herbs important for healing and such.

[horngeek]

11th. Fighters.

Not farmers. :smalltongue:

@^: Okay, what? Isn't that 4th's job, if anyone's? :smallconfused:

[Kuroimaken]

The 11th is... Kenpachi's division. AKA the hotheads.

EDIT: *picturing Kazuma as a farmer*

"WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO?!"

"I trimmed these plants, like I was asked."

"AT THE ROOT?!"

"You mean there are other ways to trim?"

[Innis Cabal]

Boo's writeup has the 11th tending a variety of herbs important for healing and such.

This is what I was referencing. They would still get said Qi spells that focus on helping plants.

[KnightDisciple]

11th. Fighters.

Not farmers. :smalltongue:

@^: Okay, what? Isn't that 4th's job, if anyone's? :smallconfused:I'm just saying what Boo's written up.

[horngeek]

This is what I was referencing. They would still get said Qi spells that focus on helping plants.

...I... honestly can't see how this fits with 11th :smallconfused:.

If it's a hobby of the Captain, fine.

But overall, they're meant to be the 'shock troops' type division. At least, I thought that was the intention for them. I must be wrong.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Yes, it does fall to other Divisions. One can only assume that such spells are used by said Divisions. They may very well be highly advanced or even better then the Kido Corp in said special fields. There isn't a dispute on that. And there never was. The Kido Corp dosn't use their spells soley to aid themselves, they use them to help Soul Society. So the 7th Divison would get the neat Kido that can help repair structures and things of that nature. The 11th would get the more specialized Kido that help grow dying plants. Divisions that use Hado would get the better Hado. The 10th would get the better Bakudo. The tactical divisions would get the better Wu Wei. Seeing a trend? The Kido Corp arn't the best at any single one Kido. Their the best at Kido over all, because thats what they work with. They arn't specialized like the Gotei. They are just one single Division.

And there's nothing saying that the 4th can't be good or great at the rest of the Qi. Thats not what your arguing against Taky. Your saying they're the best at healing the physical body. Again, there was never an issue with this. Ever. I'm getting tired of saying this. But the rest of it, like your example, they don't focus on the rest of what makes up the Qi. They are only concerned with healing the body.

As for it being "artifical". They all tie together. They are all concerned with healing, fixing, mending and bringing things back to a state of fullness. Mind, Body, Soul and World. If you'd like I can further divide the school of Qi into those four sections, with the 4th being the masters of the Body section of Qi, known as the Healing Arts. Which they've always been the masters of.

The last point. I also didn't say they ignored the Healing Arts. I said they don't need to focus on it. Its not what their about. Their about the relation of the whole Qi in relation to the other four pieces of the grand puzzle as laid out by them. They don't focus on any particular section to the extreme. Thats an unbalanced system, and as seen, they are about the balance of Kido.

First of all, apologies. KC = Kido Corp. Really need to come up with a better adjective for that, cause of the whole Kido Commander sharing it.

Alright. Then I am fine with it.

Again, this discussion started when you told KD that the Kido Corp's conception of Kido is the dominant one. The only reason I was concerned was because it didn't agree with my concept of the 4th. I don't really care what you do with the categorizations. That's your deal, and you can do what you wish with it.

The 4th is free to teach its members Healing Kido as it wishes, and to develop it as it feels necessary. In the process, consulting with the Kido Corp and the 12th would be a matter of course.

[Draken]

Working the earth does sound like some nasty and productive training.

No horses or bulls for you. PULL THAT PLOUGH VERMIN!

One full field later.

THAT WAS EASY. NOW WITH YOUR TEETH!

[Kuroimaken]

"TEETH?! Too easy! In my time, we did it only with our bare chests! And we sweated a lot too! And it was a million degrees below zero and..."

[Innis Cabal]

Again, this discussion started when you told KD that the Kido Corp's conception of Kido is the dominant one. The only reason I was concerned was because it didn't agree with my concept of the 4th. I don't really care what you do with the categorizations. That's your deal, and you can do what you wish with it.

The 4th is free to teach its members Healing Kido as it wishes, and to develop it as it feels necessary. In the process, consulting with the Kido Corp and the 12th would be a matter of course.

And I don't think that should be held in question. Its what they do. Its what they teach. The Kido Corp are the main teachers of Kido, its operations, its theory and its over all interaction with itself, the user and the world around them. I don't think anyone can argue against that. But in the same turn, I never said the Mythology, mystic aspects and the religious side was dominant. Because frankly there is no way it could be. Its not even dominant in the Kido Corp, thats plainly spelled out.

The Healing Arts may not be entangled in the wide mystic world of Kido. The Kido Corp are not fully equiped to say how Kido #21: Callous Removing Wind Strike interacts with the digits on your toes or fingers. Nor was it ever stated they weren't free to make their own or teach it to others. I'm never saying that again. If its not clear by now....tough.

And, frankly, its not my perogitive to set the full extent of Kido. This is a community game. Any Kido made by a player has already been added to a catalogue. Each time a new one pops up, its going on said word doc unless its brand spanking and shiney new.

Its also not my perogitive to write how other characters view Kido. What my place is, is to create a -standard- view of theories. Which I have done and if FF and Callos are any indication, I have done well by it. If Shinigami #22 says "This De stuff is crap, why even bother naming these spells?! Kido 47 Egg Frying Pan Dance of Furies!!" its their deal. But I stress (And this was -ALL- that I was asking) was that the fluff I have worked so hard to make organic, workable within itself and outside itself to not be ignored. I don't think thats to much to ask. Every Shinigami thats gone through training has been taught by a member of the Kido Corp. Or a Shinigami liceasened to teach for the Kido Corp.

That means, the theories that they expose (dosn't matter if people agree or disagree) are taught to everyone. Where they end up after general classes is their deal. If they end up in the healing class, then bam. 4th takes over. No more crazy loonies shouting about centering your groin chakra with your brow chakra and thrusting with your navel chakra to created a ring of energy.

[Frozen_Feet]

11th. Fighters.

Not farmers. :smalltongue:

@^: Okay, what? Isn't that 4th's job, if anyone's? :smallconfused:

The 11th is constantly in need of medicine. When Himura rose to power, she decided they should always have a supply ready. Thus, when they've got nothing else to do, 11th divisioners... farm. And dance.

"I'd say something, but I was jailed century and a half too early to know the words."

Anyways, it's good the issue is being resolved. ^_^ (Again, I advocate seeing Corps as kind of a school: people go there to learn Kido. Gotei is their work place; it's where people put what they learned into use. 12th is that ramshackle collection of crackpot scientists whose job it is to question all they learned in school, so they'll catch and iron out the bumps in basic theories.)

[Kuroimaken]

Quick question. It's been established by canon that the only ways to become a captain is to A) be appointed as one or B) defeat the current captain.

What happens if a Captain is defeated but not killed? And specifically, if he's defeated but declines Vice-captaincy, assuming that's where he'd end?

[Innis Cabal]

Quick question. It's been established by canon that the only ways to become a captain is to A) be appointed as one or B) defeat the current captain.

What happens if a Captain is defeated but not killed? And specifically, if he's defeated but declines Vice-captaincy, assuming that's where he'd end?

This is currently being voted on by the Central 5. Not only the second part. But if the first part is in fact how things work.

[Krazddndfreek]

I dunno, at least I tend to be flattered when people engage in wild speculation about my characters. :smallredface: It's also fun if someone else manages to nail the behaviour head on, as it means other people besides me can get into the head of said characters. (Hi, Kraz!) :smallbiggrin: It only becomes irksome when such speculation is presented as a fact, or the original creator isn't given a chance to correct mistaken conclusions.


This is more of what I was thinking and less what I actually wrote down (Also, I was asking if that would be in character for Hannibal). Sorry this is a bit far back but anyway, I thought I'd address it real quick.
She looks great. There absolutely has to be a scene where a lovesick Shinigami mixes her up with Yuuki Miyagawa. :smallbiggrin: Also, she made me think of this song. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMHjWAP4mng)

Since she's nearly the same age as Yamamoto Sayuri (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8157248&postcount=2), maybe they were in the academy at the same time? I welcome you to the flashback to flesh that out. :smallsmile:

About 9th and Recon: to me, it seems 2nd is more espionage style of thing, and is responsible for covertly studying areas or spying enemies. They don't really do the other kind of recon, which is running across an unknown area, seeing if there's anything worth of killing there, preparing the area for others troops, and then phoning them "all right, you can come now".

In all out war, 9th could be the division that goes right before and right behind the 11th, alerting them to sudden enemy encounters, and then securing the area 11th has rummaged through from leftover enemies, paving way for those of the 7th to come and establish temporary fortifications. Yes, this is all very modern military stuff, but it's a start. :smallredface:

Glad to have your critique. I realize that the entry wasn't entirely coherent, and I'm grateful you read through it anyway. :smallsmile:

Truth be told, her release command was from one line in a song by Paramore and then it took off from there.:smalltongue:

The coincidences between Sayuri and Kiku are interesting indeed. I can see them being friends even in the academy. I could see Kiku teasing Sayuri about her captaincy, despite her lacking swordsmanship. :smalltongue:

That whole scouting deal though... barring the event of an all-out war, I can't think of anything else they would do. Even in an all-out war, the ninjas and 6th division might be able to do that instead. But also, scouting out the mortal world (and giving orders) is already a function of the 13th division. I suppose its a start, but I'm not sure it can work without stepping on the toes of the other divisions. So, still open to suggestions.

I think I'm also going to tweak her shikai a bit, because it seems a little useless right now.

[Innis Cabal]

This is more of what I was thinking and less what I actually wrote down (Also, I was asking if that would be in character for Hannibal). Sorry this is a bit far back but anyway, I thought I'd address it real quick.

Glad to have your critique. I realize that the entry wasn't entirely coherent, and I'm grateful you read through it anyway. :smallsmile:

Truth be told, her release command was from one line in a song by Paramore and then it took off from there.:smalltongue:

The coincidences between Sayuri and Kiku are interesting indeed. I can see them being friends even in the academy. I could see Kiku teasing Sayuri about her captaincy, despite her lacking swordsmanship. :smalltongue:

That whole scouting deal though... barring the event of an all-out war, I can't think of anything else they would do. Even in an all-out war, the ninjas and 6th division might be able to do that instead. But also, scouting out the mortal world (and giving orders) is already a function of the 13th division. I suppose its a start, but I'm not sure it can work without stepping on the toes of the other divisions. So, still open to suggestions.

I think I'm also going to tweak her shikai a bit, because it seems a little useless right now.

How long ago was she transfered from the Kido Corp?

[Krazddndfreek]

Good question, it would be around the time that she became captain, which I'm going to pick the random number of 60 years ago. That does make her a fairly young captain, but the Kido Commander himself is younger. I also never intended for her to actually be better at kido than Takeshi, if that is ever going to be an issue. Maybe at the same level in terms of kido proficiency, but I don't want to overshadow him.

[Moon Wolf]

All right, based on the advice given, here's my revised draft of Katarina. I've PMed Free Hand and decided that Katarina will be Pan's fraccion. :smallsmile:

Katarina Giugovaz, Arrancar #16, Fraccion to Pan
Gender: Female
Age: 227 years as a hollow, 198 years as an arrancar
Height: 5'6''
Weight: 124lbs.
Hair: Dark Gray
Eyes: Brown
Mask Fragment: Earrings
Hollow Hole: Below the Waist
Reiatsu/Speech Colour: Indigo
Aspect of Death: Childbirth

Appearance: Katarina's appearance is much softer and more fragile than that of most arrancar. Her skin is smooth and very pale. Her hair is dark gray and is always fresh, silky, and sweet-smelling. Her eyes are milk-chocolate brown and almost always seem sad. Katarina's facial expression rarely strays too far from looking either sad or shy. An exception is in the presence of her master. The remnant of her hollow mask is a pair of swirling silvery-white earrings.

Katarina's arrancar uniform is made up of very loose and flowing white cloth, that seems like scarves. Her shirt consists of two white gauzy scarves crossed in a x-shaped formation over her chest and wrap around her neck.She has two white elbow-length gloves that cut off at the wrist. Her skirt starts as a scarf wrapped around her waist, and under this flows a loose white ankle-length skirt. Katarina usually walks around barefooted.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab272/blacknight_moon/KatarinaRevised-1.jpg

Personality: Katarina is a very shy figure and rarely speaks or makes eye contact with any other arrancar. She will speak to Von Geister and Queen Reene, but is always shy and reserved when she does so. She is very obedient and will obey orders without question. She is much kinder and acts like a mother towards her master because he looks like a child. The sight of younger arrancar makes her sad, because she died giving birth and desperately wishes for a child to call her own.

History: Katarina died giving birth, and her regret for not being able to have a child was so great that she became a hollow soon after death. Katarina has forced all memories of her life except for her child out of her mind, because it pains her too much to think about it. She was an adjuchas-class menos when she became an arrancar, and has served Pan loyally ever since and regards him as the son she never had.

Zanpakuto: Unicornio Triste (Sad Unicorn)
Sealed Form: Unicornio Triste's sealed form is a small silver blade that seems to be a type of wakizashi. Katarina keeps this blade hidden under one of the may layers of her scarf skirt, and it is not visible.


Resurrecion: "Cry, Unicornio Triste."
Upon release, Katarina's legs disappear and she becomes a centaur with a dark black unicorn's body, complete with four legs and a long flyaway gray tail. In addition to this, Katarina's hair becomes tied up closer to her head to allow her to see better, and her shirt changes to a regular black shirt instead of two scarves.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab272/blacknight_moon/KatarinaRevisedRelease-1.jpg

General Abilities:

Close Comabt Skill: Poor. When/if Katarina has to fight, she fights long-range. In truth, her close combat skill is rather poor, as a result of her shy nature

Hierro: Moderate. Works well against spiritual attacks but has little power in protecting against direct physical attacks.

Sonido: Fast. During release, and going in a straight line, her speeds can sometimes match that of her master. However, the extra horse hooves do not help with precision turns.

Garganta: Poor. Katarina's skills with the garganta are so inadequate that she needs someone else to open it for her.

Pesquisa: Formidable. Katarina is able to sense reiatsu easily around her, but people walking can sometimes slip through it undetected.

Cero and Bala: Formidable. Katarina can fire multiple ceros (one from each of her front hooves) and the speed of her balas is rapid and continuous. However, these attacks are a little less powerful than others and seem to focus more on speed as supposed to strength.

Resurrecion Abilities:

Protection From Behind: Katarina can use her keen pesquisa skills in combination with her back hooves in order to kick and fend off attacks coming from behind her.

Force Field: Katarina can project a force field which blocks attacks such as kido, hado, or bakudo. She can create the force field in a translucent white sphere around herself which can block attacks for 10-30 seconds, depending on the power of the attack.



Possible Connections:

Her master

Other fraccion

Most arrancar

[Innis Cabal]

Good question, it would be around the time that she became captain, which I'm going to pick the random number of 60 years ago. That does make her a fairly young captain, but the Kido Commander himself is younger. I also never intended for her to actually be better at kido than Takeshi, if that is ever going to be an issue. Maybe at the same level in terms of kido proficiency, but I don't want to overshadow him.

Naw, that wasn't the worry. I was just wondering how many of these people Takeshi would actually even know about.

[KnightDisciple]

This is more of what I was thinking and less what I actually wrote down (Also, I was asking if that would be in character for Hannibal). Sorry this is a bit far back but anyway, I thought I'd address it real quick.

Glad to have your critique. I realize that the entry wasn't entirely coherent, and I'm grateful you read through it anyway. :smallsmile:

Truth be told, her release command was from one line in a song by Paramore and then it took off from there.:smalltongue:

The coincidences between Sayuri and Kiku are interesting indeed. I can see them being friends even in the academy. I could see Kiku teasing Sayuri about her captaincy, despite her lacking swordsmanship. :smalltongue:

That whole scouting deal though... barring the event of an all-out war, I can't think of anything else they would do. Even in an all-out war, the ninjas and 6th division might be able to do that instead. But also, scouting out the mortal world (and giving orders) is already a function of the 13th division. I suppose its a start, but I'm not sure it can work without stepping on the toes of the other divisions. So, still open to suggestions.

I think I'm also going to tweak her shikai a bit, because it seems a little useless right now.Well, I have an idea or two.

We know that 12th performs scans on the Mortal World.

13th patrols...for Hollows and souls that need Soul Burial.

Look at 8th's entry here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8157596&postcount=3). Notice the "Strategic Cartography" section.

One major thing they could do in peacetime is go to areas scanned by 12th and specifically note features of the terrain. This data is then compiled by the 8th into a larger picture.

Having the 9th on the ground can give a "hands-on" perspective of the goings-on in that area.

Maybe they also try to take note of larger patterns of Hollow movements in various areas. Perhaps they try to track the more canny Hollows, while 13th works to actually stop them.

Things like that.

[Frozen_Feet]

Good question, it would be around the time that she became captain, which I'm going to pick the random number of 60 years ago. That does make her a fairly young captain, but the Kido Commander himself is younger. I also never intended for her to actually be better at kido than Takeshi, if that is ever going to be an issue. Maybe at the same level in terms of kido proficiency, but I don't want to overshadow him.

As Kido Corps is technically a different organization from Gotei, wouldn't it be more logical if she spent some time serving as a seated officer before being promoted to captain? Say, if she left 60 years ago, she might have spent 30 as an officer, 20 as a VC and 10 as a captain, for example.

[Krazddndfreek]

I was also thinking that she would be an officer in the Gotei for a short-lived period then transfer to the Kido Corps. Although, even with that time in the Gotei, you're right, she should have to work her way up. I'd like for her to have some reputation as a captain, though. Maybe more like 25 working her way up to VC then 5 as VC, and 30 as captain?

@KD: Hmm. Yeah, alright, If no one objects, I'll work off of that. They'd be like scouts and data collectors.

[Innis Cabal]

As Kido Corps is technically a different organization from Gotei, wouldn't it be more logical if she spent some time serving as a seated officer before being promoted to captain? Say, if she left 60 years ago, she might have spent 30 as an officer, 20 as a VC and 10 as a captain, for example.

And you to FF. How long ago did Sayuri transfer from the Kido Corp to the 1st Division? Her write up is missing its history.


An even better question for those who were in the Kido Corp. Where did they serve in said Group?

[Draken]

All right, based on the advice given, here's my revised draft of Katarina. I've PMed Free Hand and decided that Katarina will be Pan's fraccion. :smallsmile:

Katarina Giugovaz, Arrancar #16, Fraccion to Pan
Gender: Female
Age: 227 years as a hollow, 198 years as an arrancar
Height: 5'6''
Weight: 124lbs.
Hair: Dark Gray
Eyes: Brown
Mask Fragment: Earrings
Hollow Hole: Below the Waist
Reiatsu/Speech Colour: Indigo
Aspect of Death: Childbirth

Appearance: Katarina's appearance is much softer and more fragile than that of most arrancar. Her skin is smooth and very pale. Her hair is dark gray and is always fresh, silky, and sweet-smelling. Her eyes are milk-chocolate brown and almost always seem sad. Katarina's facial expression rarely strays too far from looking either sad or shy. An exception is in the presence of her master. The remnant of her hollow mask is a pair of swirling silvery-white earrings.

Katarina's arrancar uniform is made up of very loose and flowing white cloth, that seems like scarves. Her shirt consists of two white gauzy scarves crossed in a x-shaped formation over her chest and wrap around her neck.She has two white elbow-length gloves that cut off at the wrist. Her skirt starts as a scarf wrapped around her waist, and under this flows a loose white ankle-length skirt. Katarina usually walks around barefooted.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab272/blacknight_moon/KatarinaRevised-1.jpg

Personality: Katarina is a very shy figure and rarely speaks or makes eye contact with any other arrancar. She will speak to Von Geister and Queen Reene, but is always shy and reserved when she does so. She is very obedient and will obey orders without question. She is much kinder and acts like a mother towards her master because he looks like a child. The sight of younger arrancar makes her sad, because she died giving birth and desperately wishes for a child to call her own.

History: Katarina died giving birth, and her regret for not being able to have a child was so great that she became a hollow soon after death. Katarina has forced all memories of her life except for her child out of her mind, because it pains her too much to think about it. She was an adjuchas-class menos when she became an arrancar, and has served Pan loyally ever since and regards him as the son she never had.

Zanpakuto: Unicornio Triste (Sad Unicorn)
Sealed Form: Unicornio Triste's sealed form is a small silver blade that seems to be a type of wakizashi. Katarina keeps this blade hidden under one of the may layers of her scarf skirt, and it is not visible.


Resurrecion: "Cry, Unicornio Triste."
Upon release, Katarina's legs disappear and she becomes a centaur with a dark black unicorn's body, complete with four legs and a long flyaway gray tail. In addition to this, Katarina's hair becomes tied up closer to her head to allow her to see better, and her shirt changes to a regular black shirt instead of two scarves.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab272/blacknight_moon/KatarinaRevisedRelease-1.jpg

General Abilities:

Close Comabt Skill: Poor. When/if Katarina has to fight, she fights long-range. In truth, her close combat skill is rather poor, as a result of her shy nature

Hierro: Moderate. Works well against spiritual attacks but has little power in protecting against direct physical attacks.

Sonido: Fast. During release, and going in a straight line, her speeds can sometimes match that of her master. However, the extra horse hooves do not help with precision turns.

Garganta: Poor. Katarina's skills with the garganta are so inadequate that she needs someone else to open it for her.

Pesquisa: Formidable. Katarina is able to sense reiatsu easily around her, but people walking can sometimes slip through it undetected.

Cero and Bala: Formidable. Katarina can fire multiple ceros (one from each of her front hooves) and the speed of her balas is rapid and continuous. However, these attacks are a little less powerful than others and seem to focus more on speed as supposed to strength.

Resurrecion Abilities:

Protection From Behind: Katarina can use her keen pesquisa skills in combination with her back hooves in order to kick and fend off attacks coming from behind her.

Force Field: Katarina can project a force field which blocks attacks such as kido, hado, or bakudo. She can create the force field in a translucent white sphere around herself which can block attacks for 10-30 seconds, depending on the power of the attack.



Possible Connections:

Her master

Other fraccion

Most arrancar


Protection from behind sounds... Uh. Weird*, and is hardly an ability. I don't think it really needs mentioning.

Also, I would have expected... I don't know. A horn. As is you have centaur nailed down but hardly unicorn. I think.

* Mind in the gutter.

[Frozen_Feet]

And you to FF. How long ago did Sayuri transfer from the Kido Corp to the 1st Division? Her write up is missing its history.


An even better question for those who were in the Kido Corp. Where did they serve in said Group?

As it is, Sayuri transferred along the same time Kiku did. I've yet to wrap my head around the cell structure, so I can't give my answer there, but presumably it was the same or neighbouring unit to where Kiku was.

[Innis Cabal]

As it is, Sayuri transferred along the same time Kiku did. I've yet to wrap my head around the cell structure, so I can't give my answer there, but presumably it was the same or neighbouring unit to where Kiku was.

As it stands, a Cell is similar to a Division, but is a little looser in command structure in so far as individual power is concerned. Seated officers all have Shikai. Senior officers may have shikai, but its rare. Junior members don't have shikai, unless its a very special case. The other cells vary, but no member of a Cell outside the core unit is capable of Bankai.

The Core Units (Of which there are 8) has a single leading Seated Officer. Six Cells have 4 senior members, while the other two have 6. Senior members are akin to other high seated members, having free reign to study and do as they please in so far as duties are concerned. There are 17 Junior members in each cell. Each Junior member acts as more or less the grunts of the Division, and are equal to unseated members of the Gotei.

The other cells are looser still. The Grounds Keepers are actually comprable to Senior Members, answering to the Vice Commander or Kido Commander himself.

The Librarians are a fairly even 1:5 split in authority, while the Jar Carriers are a 1:10 split in terms of rank.

As it stands, I feel the Kido Corp could increase in men and perhaps take on some mundane tasks not yet seen taken by the Gotei. This isn't a complaint, but a point of question if it would be possible to pick up other such jobs, even perhaps splitting them between the Ninja Force and the Kido Corp.

The Gotei 13
Main Army of Soul Society
Main Hospital of Soul Society
Over sees the cleaning of Soul Society
Oversees the detention of Criminals
Main builders in Soul Society


Not sure what else there really is. The regular souls do the farming. So no real need to divert the main part of that. But perhaps one of the other two branchs could over see trade between Soul Society and the outer regions?(probably not the Kido Corp).

[KnightDisciple]

Uh...I think with 6th being the "Training and Reinforcement Division", we have all Divisions covered, duty wise.

Somebody keeping better track of this, feel free to correct me, but, here's what we've got:

1st Division: Administration, Field Command
2nd Division: Stealth, Assasination, ? (Moon Wolf, you should probably give things a look now that you've seen what everyone else is doing)
3rd Division: Execution of Seireitei Criminals
4th Division: Healing, Groundskeeping, Supplies
5th Division: Communication (Hell Butterflies, Reiphone Network, Physical Messengers)
6th Division: Training, Reinforcement, Rehabilitation
7th Division: Construction, Fortification
8th Division: Strategy (Multiple flavors)
9th Division: Recon?
10th Division: Police, Prison Management
11th Division: Shock Troops, Physical Combat
12th Division: SCIENCE!
13th Division: Mortal World Patrols (Konso and Hollow fighting)
Kido Corps: KIDO!

[Krazddndfreek]

Not sure what else there really is. The regular souls do the farming. So no real need to divert the main part of that. But perhaps one of the other two branchs could over see trade between Soul Society and the outer regions?(probably not the Kido Corp).

Wouldn't that be the 1st's job with its "administrative duties"?

[Innis Cabal]

Uh...I think with 6th being the "Training and Reinforcement Division", we have all Divisions covered, duty wise.

Somebody keeping better track of this, feel free to correct me, but, here's what we've got:

1st Division: Administration, Field Command
2nd Division: Stealth, Assasination, ? (Moon Wolf, you should probably give things a look now that you've seen what everyone else is doing)
3rd Division: Execution of Seireitei Criminals
4th Division: Healing, Groundskeeping, Supplies
5th Division: Communication (Hell Butterflies, Reiphone Network, Physical Messengers)
6th Division: Training, Reinforcement, Rehabilitation
7th Division: Construction, Fortification
8th Division: Strategy (Multiple flavors)
9th Division: Recon?
10th Division: Police, Prison Management
11th Division: Shock Troops, Physical Combat
12th Division: SCIENCE!
13th Division: Mortal World Patrols (Konso and Hollow fighting)
Kido Corps: KIDO!

I didn't just mean the specific duties. I meant the Gotei as a whole are the main body of Soul Society. But there are things they don't actually do. And the Gotei is regardless, the main body of the Soul Society Army. One Division alone literaly has 4 times as many people as the Kido Corp. They also have tasks that relate only to the Gotei (such the 6th being extra training, the whole 1st Divison, Reinforcment) but at the same time. They have plenty of things that over lap into Soul Society (more then you'd imgaine).

Again. This isn't a complaint, or even an issue. Their the biggest, they should get said positions because they have men and women to spare. But there are gaps. Yes, they probably won't come into play, but the question is. Do the other two groups have room to add duties on that relate and impact Soul Society more then what they are presently set at.


Wouldn't that be the 1st's job with its "administrative duties"?

It could yes. But I thought it was more admin duties for the Gotei, not Soul Society. I thought that stuff was done by the Central

[horngeek]

Actually, here's another thing:

Wouldn't 13th be the biggest Division? I'm just asking your opinions, because I'm considering bumping the size up so it is.

[Moon Wolf]

Hm...as a final revision to Katarina, perhaps I should just make her a horse instead of a centaur (I couldn't find a picture with a horn).

As for the 2nd Division, I was revising the duties of the 5 units of the Omnitsukido, since I figured that'd be a big part. Originally it was:

Unit 1: Executive Militia
Unit 2: Patrol Corps
Unit 3: Detention Unit
Unit 4: Security Unit
Unit 5: Reversal Counter-Force

However, after discussing with tgva, a few units seemed to be a little too intermeshed with other divisions. Units 1, 4, and 5 I think should be okay to keep, but I'll work on re-inventing duties for Units 2 and 3. I'll expand on each unit's duties once I have new purposes for Units 2 and 3. :smallsmile:

[KnightDisciple]

I'm...kind of confused on what needs to be done for Soul Society at large. Beyond the Central 46 giving out various laws.

I thought people were pushing for the Gotei and related groups to be kind of "hands-off" with the rest of Soul Society?:smallconfused:

[KnightDisciple]

Hm...as a final revision to Katarina, perhaps I should just make her a horse instead of a centaur (I couldn't find a picture with a horn).

As for the 2nd Division, I was revising the duties of the 5 units of the Omnitsukido, since I figured that'd be a big part. Originally it was:

Unit 1: Executive Militia
Unit 2: Patrol Corps
Unit 3: Detention Unit
Unit 4: Security Unit
Unit 5: Reversal Counter-Force

However, after discussing with tgva, a few units seemed to be a little too intermeshed with other divisions. Units 1, 4, and 5 I think should be okay to keep, but I'll work on re-inventing duties for Units 2 and 3. I'll expand on each unit's duties once I have new purposes for Units 2 and 3. :smallsmile:Well, the "Reversal Counter Force" seems to be messengers, in canon.

Which would kind of fall under 5th Division.

"Security Unit"...Bleach Wiki has no listed duty, so I'm not sure what you're envisioning here.

Edit: Actually...I'd ask you to repost it, but I suppose I'll just wait for your revision on the greater whole.

[strawberryman]

Hm...as a final revision to Katarina, perhaps I should just make her a horse instead of a centaur (I couldn't find a picture with a horn).

*coughs*

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9783/unicornp.jpg

[Moon Wolf]

Whoa, whoa, hold your horses, Berry. :smallamused::smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

I'd have to re-colour the entire thing, and that takes a looong time.

@KnightD: I know, that's why it fell under one of the 'scrapped' units. It might be an odd concept at first, but that's because I'm in the rough stages of fleshing out the different subdivisions of the Omnitsukido...perhaps...something like this?

Unit 1: Executive Militia
Unit 2: Intel Unit
Unit 3: Reconnaissance Unit
Unit 4: Security Unit
Unit 5: Assassination Unit

Brief summary:

Unit 1: They give orders and go through and process and manage the other units' duties.

Unit 2: Process data collected on enemies and places given by Unit 3.

Unit 3: Completes reconnaissance missions and gathers intel on enemies.

Unit 4: Underground ninja security.

Unit 5: The name pretty much sums it up; they assassinate people.

Better? :smallsmile:

[KnightDisciple]

How does Unit 3 compare with 9th Division's duties?

[Draken]

Security Unit sounds like something you would have stealthly keeping guard of nobles and other VIPs.

[tgva8889]

Did we solve the 4th vs. Kido Corp. debate already? At some point I stopped reading it because it felt like neither side was really getting across what they wanted to say.

The "Underground Security" of the Security Unit sounds a bit like the 10th's Undercover Operations. Perhaps the Security Unit is more attached to specific people? 10th would not provide troops to protect specific people unless those people were their own Captain or someone in their custody, most likely.

I think you should think of the Omnitsukido as a separate arm of the Soul Society government, because that's what it's supposed to be. So it should do things more related to events outside of Gotei 13. It just so happens that a Captain is the leader.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Actually, here's another thing:

Wouldn't 13th be the biggest Division? I'm just asking your opinions, because I'm considering bumping the size up so it is.

Nah, I think the 4th and 6th would be. They have a much higher percentage of those who aren't able to use Shikai. Members of the 13th would probably be more highly trained then the average janitor, after all.

[Innis Cabal]

I think you should think of the Omnitsukido as a separate arm of the Soul Society government, because that's what it's supposed to be. So it should do things more related to events outside of Gotei 13. It just so happens that a Captain is the leader.

Yes we got the kido thing taken care of.

I also don't think a Captain should be in charge of a Division and a whole seperate organization.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Alright, just before I get to the powers, I wanted to throw out this unique ability idea I just had for the character. What if he had some kind of ability that prevents an enemy's allies from helping him/her/it? Like a field around the enemy and probably the character that prevents everybody but the selected enemy from harming the character. Would that be too broken?

[Innis Cabal]

Alright, just before I get to the powers, I wanted to throw out this unique ability idea I just had for the character. What if he had some kind of ability that prevents an enemy's allies from helping him/her/it? Like a field around the enemy and probably the character that prevents everybody but the selected enemy from harming the character. Would that be too broken?

It honestly sounds like a high numbered Bakudo spell.

[Draken]

Alright, just before I get to the powers, I wanted to throw out this unique ability idea I just had for the character. What if he had some kind of ability that prevents an enemy's allies from helping him/her/it? Like a field around the enemy and probably the character that prevents everybody but the selected enemy from harming the character. Would that be too broken?

So his power is the battledome? :smalltongue:

Hardly overpowered. One-on-one fights are sort of default anyway.

A power like that would have helped me in at least one situation however. :smalltongue:

[tgva8889]

A power like that would have helped me in at least one situation however. :smalltongue:

Sorry?

Innis, are you going to manage our list of kido that we as players have created? Or should we get someone else to do that? I figured that's a resource we may want to have.

[Innis Cabal]

Sorry?

Innis, are you going to manage our list of kido that we as players have created? Or should we get someone else to do that? I figured that's a resource we may want to have.

Yes, I already said I had a list written. :smallwink::smallsmile:

[horngeek]

And chants for canon Kido, for that matter.

Maybe put it in the wiki?

@^: You NINJA. Where is it?

[tgva8889]

Also, do you think we should write summaries of the Episodes and include them on the Wiki?

[Innis Cabal]

And chants for canon Kido, for that matter.

Maybe put it in the wiki?

@^: You NINJA. Where is it?

A word doc on my computer. And I don't know how to use the wiki, and really am not intent on learning.

[Draken]

Sorry?

Never. :smalltongue:

[horngeek]

...then put it up here in some capacity, and I'll put it into the wiki for you. It should be publicly available.

[Krazddndfreek]

Sorry HG I beat ya to it. (http://bleachitp-reborn.wikidot.com/kido-corps) :smalltongue:

I really should be working on some other things, including my character, but I think it's helped me clear my mind a bit.

EDIT: Wait, wrong thing. Still, I hope it helped.:smalltongue:

EDIT 2: Would everyone be alright if I formatted all the division entries similarly to the Kido corps entry?

[tgva8889]

As long as you don't remove anything I don't care. :smallwink:

[Krazddndfreek]

Cool, I think I'll get on that right now then.

[Frozen_Feet]

About Omnitsukido and 10th: I think it so that 2th is the Spec Ops, while 10th is the ordinary police.

10th is more concerned with everyday criminals of Seireitei and Rukon, like thiefs, vandals and shady merchants, and their undercover operations deal mainly with infiltrating gangs or drug cartels. Their security duties are more about keeping order in public locations and events.

Omnitsukido is much more an arm of the government than the military, and takes care of things that are outside of 10th scope. They guard high-priority areas where ordinary Shinigami aren't even allowed, execute missions on the "gray area" of law like spying on suspicious Shinigami, assassinating unwanted elements, preventing forbidden knowledge from spreading and interrogating Ryokas or other trespassers that are not subject to Seireitei's normal laws.

When 10th show on your doorstep, it's most likely about your lost cat or nicked bike. When Omnitsukido show on your doorstep, you might as well say your prayers, for you might not be seen again.

Obviously, there's some overlap in their duties, and co-operation between them is likely heavy (think... CIA anf FBI, I guess). However, this is justified and explained by them being responsible to different parties - 10th answers to Gotei first and is subject to military laws and customs, while Omnitsukido answers directly to Central and has different rules for its operation.

[horngeek]

...and Hannibal.

I'd say that 10th deals with stuff whithin the law, and the Omnitsukido deals with stuff that's not strictly legal.

But here's the thing: what does 2nd do if its Captain isn't leader of the Omnitsukido?

[Frozen_Feet]

...and Hannibal.

I'd say that 10th deals with stuff whithin the law, and the Omnitsukido deals with stuff that's not strictly legal.

But here's the thing: what does 2nd do if its Captain isn't leader of the Omnitsukido?

Ninjas for Omnitsukido have to come from somwhere, correct? So even when Omnitsukido's leadership is separate from that of 2nd's, 2nd still provides training, recruits and living quarters for them. The leadership of 2nd is the link between Gotei and Omnitsukido, taking care of the relations between the two organizations, and being the way through which the CG can petition help from the Covert Ops when he needs it. Also, 2nd still has, or can have its own organs for that Espionage thing.

[horngeek]

Eh. If that's so, why isn't a division as closely linked to the Kido Corps?

Quite frankly, I'm not sure the Omnitsukido should even be a seperate organisation. Maybe it should just be 2nd, because in canon (and in all the RPs we've had so far), 2nd has pretty much been defined by the Omnitsukido. And I don't think we should have a division defined by an organisation which isn't part of the Gotei. So, either 2nd should be very different, or the Omnitsukido should just be 2nd.

There's also the slight thing that no one's applied to lead the Omnitsukido as a seperate organisation, but that's minor to me.

[Innis Cabal]

Eh. If that's so, why isn't a division as closely linked to the Kido Corps?

Maybe they were in the past and something happened? Krazed has yet to detail anything in relation to his new Captain, and the relationship she still holds with the Kido Corp. A better question is, why should they be the same as the other group?

Same with the Vice Captain of the 1st.

[Frozen_Feet]

Eh. If that's so, why isn't a division as closely linked to the Kido Corps?

Quite frankly, I'm not sure the Omnitsukido should even be a seperate organisation. Maybe it should just be 2nd, because in canon (and in all the RPs we've had so far), 2nd has pretty much been defined by the Omnitsukido. And I don't think we should have a division defined by an organisation which isn't part of the Gotei. So, either 2nd should be very different, or the Omnitsukido should just be 2nd.

There's also the slight thing that no one's applied to lead the Omnitsukido as a seperate organisation, but that's minor to me.

That's because currently, the leadership of 2nd and Omnitsukido are intermingled. So they are pretty much the same, currrently. Omnitsukidos role as a separate organization would likely only come into play if the Central wanted to, say, assassinate the CG. :smallsmile:

Also, Gotei is heavily intermingled with the Kido Corps. Kido Corps provides Kido training for the Academy, which teaches all future members of both the Corps and Gotei. When a division needs a person proficient in high-level Kido, they either petition Corps for one, or send someone to Kido Corps for training.

It all fits when you don't think of the divisions as self-sufficient wholes; they aren't. People move from unit to unit and division to division constantly to acquire skills necessary for their jobs.

[Moon Wolf]

Wow, lots of discussion about the Omnitsukido...darn, all of these happen while I'm asleep! :smallsigh:

I picked up on it too, that the Omnitsukido and the 2nd Division have always been very similar and intermeshed, and I figured I'd do that and keep with tradition but I'd expand on each of the Units to provide a more in-depth explanation of what exactly it is that the faction does. I mean, the Omnitsukido are ninjas, and the 2nd are basically...ninjas.

If any of the duties of the Omnitsukido's Units (for example, the unit that processes the intel gathered by the reconnaissance unit) seem like they might be linked to another division, then perhaps since the Omnitsukido is led by a Captain, this intel would be given to the appropriate data-processing and strategy planning squad within the Gotei 13.

I may not be able to completely finish my in-depth write-up of the Omnitsukido until after I finish school, because I'm going into serious studying mode with three weeks of exams after this week is over. I'll try, though. :smallsmile:

[Kuroimaken]

Quick question. Isn't it supposed to be Onmitsukidou, rather than Omnitsukidou?

Sorry, the Japanese student in me is nagging at that.

[Innis Cabal]

Nope, its Onmitsukidō 隠密機動. And its Kidō 鬼道 as well, not Kidou.

[horngeek]

Yeah... them being so similar is why I think they should be, in fact, the same.

[nothingclever]

The only duties the Bleach wiki lists for the 2nd division are the duties it's inherited from its captain also being the leader of the Onmitsukido.

I know it isn't infallible but according to it for all we know the 2nd division could be anything you wanted if its captain didn't hold another position. The wiki says the two groups are basically one in the same because of their current and last captain not because they always were by default.

You can't say a division is similar to another organization if it has no duties of its own listed to compare to the duties its inherited.

[Kuroimaken]

Nope, its Onmitsukidō 隠密機動. And its Kidō 鬼道 as well, not Kidou.

I just romanized as an extension with u instead of using that o (since I can't tell how to write it in my keyboard).

[Draken]

If you have a portuguese keyboard it is just a normal õ, acento til + o.

If you are using an english keyboard for whatever reason (acer netbook would be my excuse if I were on mine), you would use CTRL+SHIFT on the ~ button of that keyboard, and then press "o" to make the õ.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Alright, I finally have the first draft of the character up! I don't really like the first name, but I can change that later. Also, I want to apologize ahead of time for the wall of text that is the description. I really like to get my point across I guess. :smalltongue: Questions, comments, and criticisms are welcome!

Pico Kaosutaron, ArrancarName: Pico Kaosutaron
Gender: Male
Age: Unknown (around 500-600, looks about 18)
Height: 6'0"
Hair: Black, a few inches in length.
Eyes: Yellow
Aspect of Death: Rejection
Reiatsu/Speech: Green

Appearance: Pale, quite thin, but not bare bones thin due to a fairly athletic build. Somewhat sharp and hawk-like in appearance. Quite handsome looking. Generally an uncaring look in his eyes most of the time, but sometimes can look more than a bit smug. A little bit bent in posture, adding to the whole "don't give a crap" feeling. His hair is wild, but not in a deranged sense, more wind-tossed, and it seems to keep out of his face. Has straight but otherwise untrimmed sideburns reaching down to his earlobes.

Where the sideburns stop, his Hollow mask fragments begin, leading down across his jawbone, stopping just before they reach the corners of his mouth. They start off about the same width as his sideburns, remaining the same width until they reach the bottom of the jaw, then they widen just slightly, tapering off suddenly at the end. The top of the fragments have an upside-down "U" shape in black painted on them, the rest being white and smooth until the part along the bottom jaw, after which it becomes somewhat bumpy on the side and jagged along the bottom.

He wears a mostly form-fitting long white coat reaching down to his ankles. The coat looks like a cross between a typical Arrancar uniform and a biker jacket. It is outlined in dark green trim and has squared shoulders. It has a black fur trim in a similar fashion to this (http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs302.snc3/28713_1332359232987_1351217376_30940091_1882978_n. jpg). The sleeves are wrist length and plain white. Both along the wrists of the sleeve and the bottom of the coat, the coat has black and dark green circuitry-esque designs.

The coat is open enough to show his mostly bare chest. His Hollow hole is on the left side of his chest, right next to his shoulder. If he ends up being an Espada, his number would be next to the Hollow hole. He wears a black scarf wrapped around his waist almost like bandages, and a fairly wide piece of black cloth wrapped across the middle of his throat. Wears white biker pants with a simple straight design on the sides in black that forks into two lines at the knee. Wears white biker boots with black trim.

Personality: He does what he wants, when he wants, where he wants, how he wants, and up yours if you don’t like it sums him up pretty well. Generally a loner unless he feels like it, which is very rarely. Very informal, borderline rude towards those he considers his equals or inferiors. Much more polite towards his superiors or strangers who haven’t ticked him off very badly, but still quite informal in mannerisms. Somewhat of a sadist in combat, particularly if he is fighting someone who his is angry towards or hates for whatever reason. Generally, his attitude towards people and events vary with how he is feeling. If he is happy, he generally is more tolerant and accepting of people and events and whatever stuff might otherwise annoy or tick him off. If he is mad though, he has a much, much shorter tolerance for things, and tends to get very cross. What he wants and likes also seems to vary, and sometimes even seems contradictory. Reacts stiffly to things and traits he dislikes, as well as most all attempts at any kind of affection directed towards him. Generally, he dislikes being forced to do something he doesn’t want to do. Often does a thing because he feels justified in doing that thing for whatever reason. However, that doesn’t mean that he is stupid. He can restrain himself if a particular thing that he would do would cause unnecessary problems or create a situation he doesn’t want to be in.

Sealed Abilities: Bala and Cero: Both are below average strength-wise. He tends to fire multiple Bala in a scatter effect, but both are neglected due to focus on close combat.

Hierro: Below average. He can block an average Shikai barehanded, but his hands will be bleeding.

Sonído: He is the most proficient with this skill. He can step multiple times in rapid succession without tiring, covering several hundred yards with each step. He can keep stepping for long periods of time without tiring.

Garganta: Competent enough to use it by himself.

Pesquisa: Fairly powerful. Can faintly detect particularly powerful Spirit signatures at about a half a mile. Mostly focused on close range.

Imitate Metal: Has a limited ability in sealed form to change the density of his body and any part of his Zanpakuto to that of metal. He can also sharpen any of these things to that of a sword.

Separate from the Herd: Singles out a target and generates a field that prevents his/her/its allies from helping him out in any way. It doesn’t matter what kind of help it would be, whether it be verbal, healing, or assistance in attacking Pico. Any attempts to help the target would cause the ally attempting to help to be forcefully pushed away from the target (or away from Pico, if the attempt to help was attacking him). The target appears to anyone other than Pico and the target itself as black and white monotone with cracks all over it, the cracks getting larger as the target gets weaker. The target cannot communicate with any of his/her/its allies, and vice-versa.

Zanpakuto: Sealed Form: Two khopeshes made of an obsidian-like material. Both khopeshes are unusual in that both sides are sharp. The guards look like fossilized feathers. At the bottom of the handles are attached long white bandages that wrap around the swords when not in use. The bandages wrap around the sleeves when they are active. Pico uses these swords in a Kratos-esque fashion. Any time the bandages are cut, they immediately return to their original length.

Ressureción: Ranbuoni furai, Garra Errática! (Fly wildly, Erratic Talon)
Just before release, Pico folds his arms in front of him, with the khopeshes flat against his arms. The bandages turn into two wings that wrap around Pico and form into a cocoon. After a second, the wings shatter into a flock of feathers, revealing the newly unsealed Pico. The feathers themselves are black, with dark green tips and golden-yellow eye-like markings.

Appearance:His hair is now down to his shoulder blades, even more wild looking than before. It almost looks feather-like. The hair also has dark green highlights now. It is all kept behind him.

Hollow mask fragments now cover the sideburns. The parts of said mask fragments that are above the jaw hinge are slightly wider than they were before. Afterwards though, they are much thicker and more jagged along the bottom. They also have several bony bud-like protrusions similar to budding horns coming out along the sides, with one very small horn coming out near the middle on both sides that curves forward. Along the top of the bottom part of the fragments are small rows of sharp looking teeth. The upside down “U” shape is now a rectangular double helix reaching down to the jaw hinge, one branch black, and the other dark green.

The coat is gone, replaced by a vest of bony white armor that stops at the waist. The vest has a propped up collar that almost surrounds his neck, and has a strip of armor around the collarbone. There is a strip down the middle that exposes some of his chest. Now his Hollow hole is where his heart would be, with spidery lines radiating from it, giving the appearance of cracks. Also, scaly black skin seems to be curving inwards from the sides of his chest towards the center, leaving a fair amount of original skin left. The same scaly skin is also on Pico’s neck, reaching down across his collarbone and extending all the way down his arms.

On the upper arms are pauldrons that are squared at the shoulders and cover only the sides of the upper arm. Also, the pauldrons reach to about halfway down the upper arm. A little to the sides of the back of his forearms are several bony feather-like protrusions curving upwards. His forearms are covered in feathers, the feathers also forming a fringe along the bottom of the forearms in a similar fashion to this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Deinonychus_BW.jpg/761px-Deinonychus_BW.jpg). The feathers are black with dark green tips and golden-yellow markings. His hands are covered in a bony gauntlet-like armor, his fingers now thick, sharp bony claws.

He has long feathers for a tail and along his waist, giving the impression, along with the armor vest, of a long coat similar to the one Pico wore in his sealed state. The feathers are white along the waist, fading into black, and finally into dark green by the time it reaches his ankles, also possessing golden-yellow markings and eye like markings near the end.

His legs are now digitigrade, with the same scaly skin that is on his chest, but also is partially armored with sleek, white, skeletal armor. His feet are now reptilian and slightly covered in bony armor, with 4 toes that end in retractable claws that are about 3 feet long, and a spur where his heel would be that is also retractable and about 2 1/2 feet long. The claws that are where the big toes would be on a human foot are larger and more sickle-shaped than the others when retracted, but are surprisingly straight when fully extended.

Ressureción abilities: The same as the sealed abilities, except for what is mentioned below.
Improvement: During Ressureción, his Hierro is improved slightly (like 15%), his Sonída is improved about 30%, his Bala and Cero are improved about 30%, and his strength is improved about 50%.

Imitate Metal: The ability can now also extend to his feathers (see below) instead of his Zanpakuto, as well as anything Pico is touching. Also, the feathers can take on the shielding properties of metal as well as sharpness and density.

Separate from the Herd: The field now also attacks any allies who attempt to help or get near the target as well as push them away from the target. The attack is a blast that is similar in form to a lightning bolt and similar in power to Pico’s Cero blast.

Feather Control: The feathers that are generated from his release count to about 55, 55 also being the limit as to how many feathers Pico can have at any given time. All of these feathers can be about 40 feet away from Pico maximum at any given time. These feathers can be formed into weapons and objects up to the size of about an 8-foot high 4-foot wide block, but the feathers themselves can be used as weapons. Pico can fire Bala and Cero from 8 of these feathers (the feathers that can fire Bala are slightly larger and look like they are covered in amber) as well as his usual places. Any of these feathers can be destroyed, and Pico can reform them using his Reiatsu.

Battle Stats: Offense: Quite powerful. He is proficient in most forms of unarmed combat as well as armed. He might not be bench-pressing the moon anytime soon, but he is still quite strong.

Defense: Thanks to his speed, he has quite the defense. However, chances are if you can land a hit on him, he will bleed, so physical defense is quite weak.

Mobility: Without out a doubt his strongest aspect. In addition to his proficiency with Sonído, he is very agile and dexterous, allowing him to dodge attacks easily and make attacks quickly.

Intelligence: Not genius level, but he isn’t as dumb as a sack of hammers either. Mostly though, what would be mistaken for intelligence is probably more cunning and common sense than actual intelligence.

Cero/Reiatsu: His Cero and Bala are below average in strength. But, he is proficient in Reiatsu control as shown by his other capabilities.

Edit: Nevermind, I like the first name now.

[KnightDisciple]

The one big thing I'd recommend, off the top of my head, is in regards to the feathers. You only specify a "flock" of feathers, then state that Pico can control them (presumably they're hard, sharp, pointy, etc.), form them into weapons, or even shoot bala from them.

I'd suggest giving an overall number to how many feathers are left laying around. I'd then suggest designating the maximum number of feathers that can fire remote energy blasts (offhand, no more than, say, 10, but that's not a hard limit, just a general ballpark suggestion), and a "maximum range". That is, the maximum range Pico can be from his feathers to fire said blasts (suggestion: 20-50 feet or so).

Also, it's good to know if the feathers can a.)be destroyed or "used up", and b.)be replenished without sealing and re-releasing.

Beyond that, I think it looks rather solid. Glad to see at least one other bird-themed release out there. :smallwink:

Should be interesting to see how Pico deals with the...eccentric...individuals in Las Noches.

[Kuroimaken]

For the record, my fraccion is/was going to be based on a crow.

Because I couldn't think of another stealthy bird.

[nothingclever]

For the record, my fraccion is/was going to be based on a crow.

Because I couldn't think of another stealthy bird.
It's not a bird but what about the Spectral Bat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_Bat)?

[Frozen_Feet]

Stealthy? Why not vicious? Like a Shrike, Raven, Vulture or Eagle?

But a minotaur will do.

About Pico: rejection, eh? I can already see Mei-chan crying when he rejects her... or not. :smalltongue:

[nothingclever]

I'd also suggest the American Bittern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bittern). It's a serious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehYciU8bllI#t=40) business (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhwzg31yls0#t=14) bird. It's got a pretty awesome walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Kd5CsXWS0). It hides by standing perfectly still and stretching its body vertically to blend in with reeds.

[KnightDisciple]

As there seems to be no outstanding objections on Vicente, I think I'll go ahead and add him to the Registry. I'll also be revising my post organization. Frozen, I'll let you know when I'm done, so that you can tweak the opener post.

Edit: And, done. I'll make sure both posts link to each other, and I have both links in my sig.:smallsmile:

[Frozen_Feet]

Registy updated. ^_^

@InyutheBeatIs: Just a note about your bio for Pico: your descriptions for his appearance and resurreccion are quite verbose, and it would make them much easier to read if you broke the text into smaller paragraphs. Other than that, no complaints from me.

[KnightDisciple]

Registy updated. ^_^

@InyutheBeatIs: Just a note about your bio for Pico: your descriptions for his appearance and resurreccion are quite verbose, and it would make them much easier to read if you broke the text into smaller paragraphs. Other than that, no complaints from me.*Cough* "Vicente", not "Vicento".:smallwink:

[horngeek]

About Pico: rejection, eh? I can already see Mei-chan crying when he rejects her... or not. :smalltongue:

"Please. I wouldn't want to add someone that stuffy anyway."

[Moon Wolf]

Well, if I change Katarina's animal from unicorn to horse, there seem to be no more changes wanted after that, so...imma post in registry. :smallsmile:

[Frozen_Feet]

*Cough* "Vicente", not "Vicento".:smallwink:

Fiddlesticks. The registry is immaculate, there is no error. If there's disparity, it's because the reality itself is mistaken! Thus, the first post makes you retroactively wrong!

I would quote HHGttG, if I remembered what it actually said. <.<

[Moon Wolf]

Added Katarina to the registry. I quite like the Spanish word for horse (caballo). :smallsmile:

[Terry576]

I know you guys'll all hate me for this but...

I HAVE SUMMER BREAK NOW! :smallsmile::smallbiggrin::smallcool:

Yeah. :smalltongue:

But, in all seriousness, I have a vision of Izumi telling everyone to stay behind the barrier, and Ishida walking out and Ceroing Disposable Hollow #1's Disposable Minion #X in the face.

... I don't know why.

[horngeek]

"...but I can't make barriers. Not unless I learn Kido, anyway."

[Terry576]

"...but I can't make barriers. Not unless I learn Kido, anyway."

"I was referring to the scene Kasa-chan drew. Why are you Substitute Shinigami so stupid sometimes?"

[riccaru]

I graduate next week. I'm also going to Boston tomorrow, so I'll be offline for most of the day. Might sneak onto my Ipod at the hotel though^_^ Anyway, my rogue shinigami might be from 2nd instead of 11th. Dunno what to use for a reason she left though. Maybe she was disenchanted by the brutality they showed toward fellow shinigami, and was afraid she might be targeted eventually? Meh, who knows. Still working on it.

Edit: I might change the name of my bount. What's everyone's views on more english names like Claire? Could my bount be an immigrant?

[Krazddndfreek]

Izumi didn't say anything in that comic. Erima did though.

[horngeek]

"I was referring to the scene Kasa-chan drew. Why are you Substitute Shinigami so stupid sometimes?"

"Except that would be Kasa-chan's character saying 'stay behind the barrier', not me."

[Terry576]

Izumi didn't say anything in that comic. Erima did though.

It was a recurring image that kept popping into my mind, and a very viable RP.

But, it's more likely to not happen, as I'm incredibly biased about the characters. :smallredface:

[Frozen_Feet]

I know you guys'll all hate me for this but...

I HAVE SUMMER BREAK NOW! :smallsmile::smallbiggrin::smallcool:



Lucky you. I don't even have a job, so I can't have break from it. :smallfrown:

[Moon Wolf]

My summer break is the latest it seems! :smallfrown:

[nothingclever]

Come on guys, turn that frown upside down and be Happy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ofiT78cLoA):smallsmile:

[Moon Wolf]

....you didn't just do that. Did you? :smalltongue:

[Tackyhillbillu]

I've got two question. Frozen, what are you looking for from Chinatsu? Cause I have no idea why the people from the 13th are there, and while I could make something up, I don't want to upset your episode.

---

The second is a multi parter. I'm trying to come up with a reason why Ude doesn't have a VC, because I don't feel like sketching up a placeholder. I have the idea that she died just before the stories start. The brief outline is thus:

She was married to someone in the 13th. The 13th requested a mixed squad to back up her husband, and she went along. They all died, probably painfully.

So the questions are: does anyone mind? It explains why Ude hasn't just promoted someone from the squad. Specifically, do you mind Horn, because it means your squad experienced losses recently? Finally, do any of the Shinigami opposed forces capable of taking down a VC with backup want to be responsible?

[horngeek]

Hmmm... possibility.

On the other hand, let's see if you get anyone before we do that.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Hmmm... possibility.

On the other hand, let's see if you get anyone before we do that.

Indeed. This is meant to slot into place, if no one claims the spot. If I do enough work on it, and like it enough, and somebody shows up anyone, I can push it back a little, but at the moment, just a stopgap.

[horngeek]

I'd say that they not 'all die'. Possibly your VC, and a few other members.

[KnightDisciple]

*Examines idea*

Well...If it's alright that it was an Arrancar, it could always have been Vicente. :smallamused:

[Frozen_Feet]

I've got two question. Frozen, what are you looking for from Chinatsu? Cause I have no idea why the people from the 13th are there, and while I could make something up, I don't want to upset your episode.

Here:



Also, about episode 2: here's a rough outline what I plan Hannibal to do:
He goes to help in the academy. At some point, he and the kids will leave for Mortal World
They will practice in outskirts of Japan with those fake Hollow things. Some people from 13th accompany them as guards and other teachers.
After a while, things go South and an Adjuchas appears. Hannibal fights it, and is wounded.
People from 4th come to pick him up, but some crackpot from 12th has a better idea.
Hannibal is patched up. He leaves briefly to sleep in 11th.
Hannibal returns to 12th, and hollowfies. Stuff breaks up. Those nearby capture him and stuff him in a seki-seki coffin.
Cut to Central 46 representative telling people in 12th Hannibal is to be executed. However, one of them objects, FOR SCIENCE! Hannibal is carried to Maggot's nest.


The first two paragraphs are those that'd interest you. I was basically waiting for Chinatsu to say "oh, you're going to Mortal World" or "ask them yourself". :smallsmile:

@nothingclever: You had the wrong song! This is what it should've been! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9K4BKkLaCI):smalltongue:

[Kuroimaken]

Indeed. This is meant to slot into place, if no one claims the spot. If I do enough work on it, and like it enough, and somebody shows up anyone, I can push it back a little, but at the moment, just a stopgap.

Don't suppose I could interest you in a Wilson to your House?

[Tackyhillbillu]

Don't suppose I could interest you in a Wilson to your House?

Put together a profile. I can't say much without it, after all.

[Frozen_Feet]

*Examines idea*

Well...If it's alright that it was an Arrancar, it could always have been Vicente. :smallamused:

Elder is also a possibility. Heck, Vicente and Elder is a possibility. Maybe both Vicente and the expedition were meant to hunt Elder, and it maneuvred them around so that that the expedition ran afoul of Vicente instead of it, and things rolled from there.

[KnightDisciple]

Elder is also a possibility. Heck, Vicente and Elder is a possibility. Maybe both Vicente and the expedition were meant to hunt Elder, and it maneuvred them around so that that the expedition ran afoul of Vicente instead of it, and things rolled from there.That's....maybe getting a bit complicated. Too many characters, and one stops to wonder why Elder doesn't soul suck the radius, and why Soul Society doesn't send a Captain.

I suggested Vicente first and foremost because he's very good at stealth work. Maybe he was testing his latest model of cloak, and had been stalking the group for a bit.

[riccaru]

That's....maybe getting a bit complicated. Too many characters, and one stops to wonder why Elder doesn't soul suck the radius, and why Soul Society doesn't send a Captain.

I suggested Vicente first and foremost because he's very good at stealth work. Maybe he was testing his latest model of cloak, and had been stalking the group for a bit.

Is Vincente an espada or a fraccion? If he's an espada and needed some help Sereg could pop in for a bit. He may not be stealthy but he can sure as heck outrun them all.

[Draken]

Fraccion. And why would an espada need help to kill a Vice-captain?

[KnightDisciple]

Is Vincente an espada or a fraccion? If he's an espada and needed some help Sereg could pop in for a bit. He may not be stealthy but he can sure as heck outrun them all.Vicente is the Fraccion to Alejandro.

And the idea was more that Vicent could pick them off one at a time and vanish back into the shadows. Hence why they didn't get even heavier backup soon enough, and why it was so successful. *Shrugs*

There are other ideas being tossed around, I think. We'll see what happens.

[riccaru]

Fraccion. And why would an espada need help to kill a Vice-captain?

Uhm... A VC and more. Plus, some of those VC's are MEAN! Didn't ukitake fight an espada?

[Frozen_Feet]

That's....maybe getting a bit complicated. Too many characters, and one stops to wonder why Elder doesn't soul suck the radius, and why Soul Society doesn't send a Captain.
Oh, that's easy to answer: Elder didn't have to, because it could just run away, courtesy of Vincente holding the pursuers down. It's canny like that. :smallwink:

If it feels too complicated for Tacky's purposes, then just forget about it. I brought it up because Von Geister want Elder's head, and Draken has mentioned multiple times he could send some Arrancars to hunt it. :smallsmile:

[KnightDisciple]

Uhm... A VC and more. Plus, some of those VC's are MEAN! Didn't ukitake fight an espada?...Ukitake is one of the 4 oldest Captains in Soul Society.

And he was first holding off the Fraccion of the Primera Espada with almost no effort, then helping Shunsui fight said Espada. While he only had Shikai out.

[KnightDisciple]

Oh, that's easy to answer: Elder didn't have to, because it could just run away, courtesy of Vincente holding the pursuers down. It's canny like that. :smallwink:

If it feels too complicated for Tacky's purposes, then just forget about it. I brought it up because Von Geister want Elder's head, and Draken has mentioned multiple times he could send some Arrancars to hunt it. :smallsmile:Well, Vicente could be one of the ones who's gone hunting for Elder. Perhaps they've tangled in the past, in other instances.

I was just trying to keep Tacky's little side-story from getting too complex.

[Frozen_Feet]

Well, Vicente could be one of the ones who's gone hunting for Elder. Perhaps they've tangled in the past, in other instances.

I was just trying to keep Tacky's little side-story from getting too complex.

I think it could've been rather simple. Like this:

*Vincente exits Garganta*

"Your time has come."

"Neener-Neener!"

*Elder flips Vincente the finger, then flees*

"Don't think you can outrun..."

*Shinigami warband arrives*

"Look, evil Hollow! Kill!"

" . . . "

[riccaru]

...Ukitake is one of the 4 oldest Captains in Soul Society.

And he was first holding off the Fraccion of the Primera Espada with almost no effort, then helping Shunsui fight said Espada. While he only had Shikai out.

Oh yeah. I meant Ikkaku. Sorry

[Innis Cabal]

Fraccion. And why would an espada need help to kill a Vice-captain?

Same reason a Captain might need help killing a Fraccion. Plot.

[Draken]

Oh yeah. I meant Ikkaku. Sorry

Ikkaku fought two fraccion but no espadas.

[Kasanip]

Izumi didn't say anything in that comic. Erima did though.


Erima didn't say anything. Sayaka is the only one who spoke with dialogue. :smallredface:

My middle semester examinations are finished (now). So until I have more class, it maybe is a time I can post again.

[InyutheBeatIs]

@Frozen_Feet, Yeah, the tension between Mei and Pico would be...interesting to say the least. :smalltongue:

@horngeek, (in response to the IC comment by Mei), "Lady, I'm not stuffy, I just don't give a crap right now, aright?"

@Kuroimaken and Knight Disciple, I wasn't exactly going for the bird-theme so much as this thing. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Deinonychus_BW.jpg/761px-Deinonychus_BW.jpg)

Anyways, I edited the character sheet. I organized the descriptions and tweaked the power descriptions. So, here is draft two!

Quick question, where are we going with the game plot-wise? Like, who is fighting who, who is the bad guy etc.?

Pico Kaosutaron, ArrancarName: Pico Kaosutaron
Gender: Male
Age: Unknown (around 500-600, looks about 18)
Height: 6'0"
Hair: Black, a few inches in length.
Eyes: Yellow
Aspect of Death: Rejection
Reiatsu/Speech: Green

Appearance: Pale, quite thin, but not bare bones thin due to a fairly athletic build. Somewhat sharp and hawk-like in appearance. Quite handsome looking. Generally an uncaring look in his eyes most of the time, but sometimes can look more than a bit smug. A little bit bent in posture, adding to the whole "don't give a crap" feeling. His hair is wild, but not in a deranged sense, more wind-tossed, and it seems to keep out of his face. Has straight but otherwise untrimmed sideburns reaching down to his earlobes.

Where the sideburns stop, his Hollow mask fragments begin, leading down across his jawbone, stopping just before they reach the corners of his mouth. They start off about the same width as his sideburns, remaining the same width until they reach the bottom of the jaw, then they widen just slightly, tapering off suddenly at the end. The top of the fragments have an upside-down "U" shape in black painted on them, the rest being white and smooth until the part along the bottom jaw, after which it becomes somewhat bumpy on the side and jagged along the bottom.

He wears a mostly form-fitting long white coat reaching down to his ankles. The coat looks like a cross between a typical Arrancar uniform and a biker jacket. It is outlined in dark green trim and has squared shoulders. It has a black fur trim in a similar fashion to this (http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs302.snc3/28713_1332359232987_1351217376_30940091_1882978_n. jpg). The sleeves are wrist length and plain white. Both along the wrists of the sleeve and the bottom of the coat, the coat has black and dark green circuitry-esque designs.

The coat is open enough to show his mostly bare chest. His Hollow hole is on the left side of his chest, right next to his shoulder. If he ends up being an Espada, his number would be next to the Hollow hole. He wears a black scarf wrapped around his waist almost like bandages, and a fairly wide piece of black cloth wrapped across the middle of his throat. Wears white biker pants with a simple straight design on the sides in black that forks into two lines at the knee. Wears white biker boots with black trim.

Personality: He does what he wants, when he wants, where he wants, how he wants, and up yours if you don’t like it sums him up pretty well. Generally a loner unless he feels like it, which is very rarely. Very informal, borderline rude towards those he considers his equals or inferiors. Much more polite towards his superiors or strangers who haven’t ticked him off very badly, but still quite informal in mannerisms. Somewhat of a sadist in combat, particularly if he is fighting someone who his is angry towards or hates for whatever reason. Generally, his attitude towards people and events vary with how he is feeling. If he is happy, he generally is more tolerant and accepting of people and events and whatever stuff might otherwise annoy or tick him off. If he is mad though, he has a much, much shorter tolerance for things, and tends to get very cross. What he wants and likes also seems to vary, and sometimes even seems contradictory. Reacts stiffly to things and traits he dislikes, as well as most all attempts at any kind of affection directed towards him. Generally, he dislikes being forced to do something he doesn’t want to do. Often does a thing because he feels justified in doing that thing for whatever reason. However, that doesn’t mean that he is stupid. He can restrain himself if a particular thing that he would do would cause unnecessary problems or create a situation he doesn’t want to be in.

Sealed Abilities: Bala and Cero: Both are below average strength-wise. He tends to fire multiple Bala in a scatter effect, but both are neglected due to focus on close combat.

Hierro: Below average. He can block an average Shikai barehanded, but his hands will be bleeding.

Sonído: He is the most proficient with this skill. He can step multiple times in rapid succession without tiring, covering several hundred yards with each step. He can keep stepping for long periods of time without tiring.

Garganta: Competent enough to use it by himself.

Pesquisa: Fairly powerful. Can faintly detect particularly powerful Spirit signatures at about a half a mile. Mostly focused on close range.

Imitate Metal: Has a limited ability in sealed form to change the density of his body and any part of his Zanpakuto to that of metal. He can also sharpen any of these things to that of a sword.

Separate from the Herd: Singles out a target and generates a field that prevents his/her/its allies from helping him out in any way. It doesn’t matter what kind of help it would be, whether it be verbal, healing, or assistance in attacking Pico. Any attempts to help the target would cause the ally attempting to help to be forcefully pushed away from the target (or away from Pico, if the attempt to help was attacking him). The target appears to anyone other than Pico and the target itself as black and white monotone with cracks all over it, the cracks getting larger as the target gets weaker. The target cannot communicate with any of his/her/its allies, and vice-versa.

Zanpakuto: Sealed Form: Two khopeshes made of an obsidian-like material. Both khopeshes are unusual in that both sides are sharp. The guards look like fossilized feathers. At the bottom of the handles are attached long white bandages that wrap around the swords when not in use. The bandages wrap around the sleeves when they are active. Pico uses these swords in a Kratos-esque fashion. Any time the bandages are cut, they immediately return to their original length.

Ressureción: Ranbuoni furai, Garra Errática! (Fly wildly, Erratic Talon)
Just before release, Pico folds his arms in front of him, with the khopeshes flat against his arms. The bandages turn into two wings that wrap around Pico and form into a cocoon. After a second, the wings shatter into a flock of feathers, revealing the newly unsealed Pico. The feathers themselves are black, with dark green tips and golden-yellow eye-like markings.

Appearance:His hair is now down to his shoulder blades, even more wild looking than before. It almost looks feather-like. The hair also has dark green highlights now. It is all kept behind him.

Hollow mask fragments now cover the sideburns. The parts of said mask fragments that are above the jaw hinge are slightly wider than they were before. Afterwards though, they are much thicker and more jagged along the bottom. They also have several bony bud-like protrusions similar to budding horns coming out along the sides, with one very small horn coming out near the middle on both sides that curves forward. Along the top of the bottom part of the fragments are small rows of sharp looking teeth. The upside down “U” shape is now a rectangular double helix reaching down to the jaw hinge, one branch black, and the other dark green.

The coat is gone, replaced by a vest of bony white armor that stops at the waist. The vest has a propped up collar that almost surrounds his neck, and has a strip of armor around the collarbone. There is a strip down the middle that exposes some of his chest. Now his Hollow hole is where his heart would be, with spidery lines radiating from it, giving the appearance of cracks. Also, scaly black skin seems to be curving inwards from the sides of his chest towards the center, leaving a fair amount of original skin left. The same scaly skin is also on Pico’s neck, reaching down across his collarbone and extending all the way down his arms.

On the upper arms are pauldrons that are squared at the shoulders and cover only the sides of the upper arm. Also, the pauldrons reach to about halfway down the upper arm. A little to the sides of the back of his forearms are several bony feather-like protrusions curving upwards. His forearms are covered in feathers, the feathers also forming a fringe along the bottom of the forearms in a similar fashion to this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Deinonychus_BW.jpg/761px-Deinonychus_BW.jpg). The feathers are black with dark green tips and golden-yellow markings. His hands are covered in a bony gauntlet-like armor, his fingers now thick, sharp bony claws.

He has long feathers for a tail and along his waist, giving the impression, along with the armor vest, of a long coat similar to the one Pico wore in his sealed state. The feathers are white along the waist, fading into black, and finally into dark green by the time it reaches his ankles, also possessing golden-yellow markings and eye like markings near the end.

His legs are now digitigrade, with the same scaly skin that is on his chest, but also is partially armored with sleek, white, skeletal armor. His feet are now reptilian and slightly covered in bony armor, with 4 toes that end in retractable claws that are about 3 feet long, and a spur where his heel would be that is also retractable and about 2 1/2 feet long. The claws that are where the big toes would be on a human foot are larger and more sickle-shaped than the others when retracted, but are surprisingly straight when fully extended.

Ressureción abilities: The same as the sealed abilities, except for what is mentioned below.
Improvement: During Ressureción, his Hierro is improved slightly (like 15%), his Sonída is improved about 30%, his Bala and Cero are improved about 30%, and his strength is improved about 50%.

Imitate Metal: The ability can now also extend to his feathers (see below) instead of his Zanpakuto, as well as anything Pico is touching. Also, the feathers can take on the shielding properties of metal as well as sharpness and density.

Separate from the Herd: The field now also attacks any allies who attempt to help or get near the target as well as push them away from the target. The attack is a blast that is similar in form to a lightning bolt and similar in power to Pico’s Cero blast.

Feather Control: The feathers that are generated from his release count to about 55, 55 also being the limit as to how many feathers Pico can have at any given time. All of these feathers can be about 40 feet away from Pico maximum at any given time. These feathers can be formed into weapons and objects up to the size of about an 8-foot high 4-foot wide block, but the feathers themselves can be used as weapons. Pico can fire Bala and Cero from 8 of these feathers (the feathers that can fire Bala are slightly larger and look like they are covered in amber) as well as his usual places. Any of these feathers can be destroyed, and Pico can reform them using his Reiatsu.

Battle Stats: Offense: Quite powerful. He is proficient in most forms of unarmed combat as well as armed. He might not be bench-pressing the moon anytime soon, but he is still quite strong.

Defense: Thanks to his speed, he has quite the defense. However, chances are if you can land a hit on him, he will bleed, so physical defense is quite weak.

Mobility: Without out a doubt his strongest aspect. In addition to his proficiency with Sonído, he is very agile and dexterous, allowing him to dodge attacks easily and make attacks quickly.

Intelligence: Not genius level, but he isn’t as dumb as a sack of hammers either. Mostly though, what would be mistaken for intelligence is probably more cunning and common sense than actual intelligence.

Cero/Reiatsu: His Cero and Bala are below average in strength. But, he is proficient in Reiatsu control as shown by his other capabilities.

[Moon Wolf]

Bad guys: arrancar, definitely.

Good guys: shinigami, mortals.

Other than that, not really sure. :smallredface:

[Draken]

Do consider, that right now I see the most likely division being the mortal world crew busying themselves with Las Noches while the Seireitei gets tangled up with Kujo (shinigami outlaw) and his followers (cultists). With the shinigami and Las Noches getting in skirmishes but nothing serious and the mortal worlders having to deal with some of the cultist's more deranged actions.

[nothingclever]

Quick question, where are we going with the game plot-wise? Like, who is fighting who, who is the bad guy etc.?

I'd try to explain things but it's probably best if you just read some of the faction descriptions in the first post in this thread since it'll answer your questions to a degree.

I guess I'll mention that the story will start with Las Noches and Soul Society having a truce that both sides want to break as soon they gain a substantial upper hand on the other since I don't remember it being in the first post. Ooh, that gives me a thought! Maybe I should add that in!

[Tackyhillbillu]

I'd say that they not 'all die'. Possibly your VC, and a few other members.

Horn, actually, can it be all of them? There is a reason. An evil reason! BWAHAHAHA! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, anyways, it is rather important. I can PM you if you want the OOC justification.

[horngeek]

Pm, please.

[Krazddndfreek]

Erima didn't say anything. Sayaka is the only one who spoke with dialogue. :smallredface:

My middle semester examinations are finished (now). So until I have more class, it maybe is a time I can post again.

I knew I was going to get wrong. Curse me for not reading your characters.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Alright, so a couple more questions. One, I'm guessing that everyone is okay with Pico as is? Two, do you think it would be more appropriate for Pico to be a Fraccion or an Espada, and if Fraccion, which Espada would he be under?

[Tackyhillbillu]

Pm, please.

PM sent!.!.!

[KnightDisciple]

Alright, so a couple more questions. One, I'm guessing that everyone is okay with Pico as is? Two, do you think it would be more appropriate for Pico to be a Fraccion or an Espada, and if Fraccion, which Espada would he be under?I think we've maybe got the Decima Espada slot open.

If that one has someone who's applied for it, and just isn't listed, then go through the various espada and look at their personality.

This post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8157240&postcount=1), "Las Noches" section, has all the Espada (and Fraccion) so far. Give it a gander, and think it over. Then feel free to ask more detailed questions to any/all Espada players.:smallwink:

[Tackyhillbillu]

Alright guys, whether the 4th gets a VC or not (since Kuroi might be making one) the plotline will go foward, because of mentioned evil plans. Here they are.

---

Reene (and perhaps other Arrancar) are behind it. Reene wants to turn the Shinigami into drones, in order to use them to further her evil plans. The VC is a troublesome, but valuable bonus target. Reene wipes out the patrol, turning them all into drones. The stronger ones are sent to Las Noches, for study and what not, and Reene keeps the weaker ones. She uses them to harass the Mortal Worlders, creating a rift between them and the Shinigami that can be healed only though the power of friendship or what not.

The Shinigami Drones that are taken back to LN will be reintroduced later on, with hopefully Ude being forced into fighting his former VC in a tearful battle.

---

This is pretty much another arc for the Mortal Worlders, with some character development for Ude thrown in for good measure at some point in the distant future. I put it post Michiko and Kasanip's plot. We might want it to be in front of the Samsara, since some of the Shinigami might get involved in that. Also, I wouldn't object to some of the weaker Shinigami PC's getting involved with it.

Anybody have ideas, questions, complaints?

[tgva8889]

Sounds..."good" is the wrong word to use, since the death of a VC isn't really "good" in a sense. But it works for me.

I think it'd be interesting for some characters to be involved in something like that. Fighting your friends, and stuff like that. Definitely emotional for the Shinigami. Plus it creates a chance to show off Von Geister's abilities first hand.

[KnightDisciple]

Might even be able to throw Yoshi in there. *Ponders different angles*

[Tackyhillbillu]

Sounds..."good" is the wrong word to use, since the death of a VC isn't really "good" in a sense. But it works for me.

I think it'd be interesting for some characters to be involved in something like that. Fighting your friends, and stuff like that. Definitely emotional for the Shinigami. Plus it creates a chance to show off Von Geister's abilities first hand.

Reene, not Von Geister. At least from what Draken and I spoke about, Von Geister isn't really getting involved, except going 'Kekeke, well done my Queen' (not really... I hope.)

But yeah, has chances for emotional stuff. Izumi could end up being in a place where she has to decide between being human, and a Shinigami, even if the choice is false (and probably would result in a 'I CHOOSE BOTH!' moment.) The Quincy have to deal with having their suspicions confirmed, and then summarily dealt with. The rest of the Mortal World crew gets to have their emotions played with, as they decide who to believe. And the weaker Shinigami get to be bewildered by their comrades actions, and deal with a group of evermore hostile mediums.

So yes, I believe the plot has serious potential.

[tgva8889]

Brainfart. But technically, Renee is Von Geister, because she's Renee Von Geister...right? (attempt to save face: success :smalltongue:)

And, wait, what Quincy suspicions?

[Tackyhillbillu]

I thought we agreed way back in Quincy discussion that Quincy A) are aware that the Shinigami are around, and B) have decided to not get involved with them since they are pretty sure that the supposedly invisible Soul Reapers who use magic may not be all in favor of their existence.

Or am I wrong on that count.

(And nice 20 on your reflex roll to save face.)

[tgva8889]

Well...we haven't decided whether the Shinigami are in favor of or against the Quincy existence, did we?

[horngeek]

The Quincy destroy souls.

[Tackyhillbillu]

No, I don't think so, and I'm rather in favor of leaving it up to individual Shinigami. I thought we decided the Shinigami just hadn't noticed the Quincy with all the rest of the crap that is going on, and the Quincy haven't done anything to change that.

[horngeek]

Well, they don't, because they don't know about them, on the whole.

The Quincy are trying not to change that.

[nothingclever]

The Quincy destroy souls.
That sounds pretty ominous.:smallwink: Is Izumi going to try to take out Kina when she learns about Soul Society and the Quincy?

[tgva8889]

Kina would let her if she wanted. It would be some kind of emotional moment.

[Tackyhillbillu]

That sounds pretty ominous.:smallwink: Is Izumi going to try to take out Kina when she learns about Soul Society and the Quincy?

...honestly, that could be a fun plot in and of itself (though probably switching Kina out for Aki, so Kina can pine on the side and watch as two of them fight.)

[horngeek]

That sounds pretty ominous.:smallwink: Is Izumi going to try to take out Kina when she learns about Soul Society and the Quincy?

Actually, if Kina made clear she didn't like that fact and wanted to change it... Izumi would help her any way she could.

[tgva8889]

It's one of the explanations for why Kina hasn't revealed her abilities. She doesn't like using them because it involves destroying souls. Along with all the other reasons, it makes Kina almost an ordinary person who happens to be able to see spirits.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Of course, if tvga and Horn would prefer to keep it to just Kina and Izumi, Aki doesn't have to get involved. (Don't want to force the plot to change if it isn't wanted.)

[horngeek]

It's one of the explanations for why Kina hasn't revealed her abilities. She doesn't like using them because it involves destroying souls. Along with all the other reasons, it makes Kina almost an ordinary person who happens to be able to see spirits.

And that's why Izumi wouldn't try to kill her. :smalltongue:

If a Quincy was deliberately destroying souls, on the other hand...

[nothingclever]

Actually, if Kina made clear she didn't like that fact and wanted to change it... Izumi would help her any way she could.
D'awwwwww. It appears we are operating well within the necessary power of friendship parameters.