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Fouredged Sword
2010-05-27, 11:17 AM
Simple questiom...

What is a good way to get around SR.

I would like to be able to drop an adult dragon with a ray spell. If I can get one hit I can take it.

What are some good ways to get past that SR to make that hit count?

Prodan
2010-05-27, 11:18 AM
True Casting
Assay Spell Resistance
Using Conjuration spells

Greenish
2010-05-27, 11:19 AM
Play factotum. :smallwink:

Optimystik
2010-05-27, 11:20 AM
The best way is to boost your Caster Level, because that carries additional benefits (your spells do more damage/last longer, and they are harder to dispel/counter.)

There are also spells that can do the trick, like Assay Spell Resistance.

Finally, there are plenty of spells that just ignore SR. Orbs work just like rays, but are SR: No.

sonofzeal
2010-05-27, 11:22 AM
Assay Spell Resistance - Arc 4, Clr 4, HB 4, Sor/Wiz 4, from Spell Compendium on page 17

Lower Spell Resistance - Arc 4, Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4, from Draconomicon on page 114

Spell Vulnerability - Arc 4, Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3, from Planar Handbook on page 104

nyarlathotep
2010-05-27, 11:23 AM
Play a shadowcaster. :smallwink: With fix of course.

balistafreak
2010-05-27, 11:25 AM
Play factotum. :smallwink:

To elaborate, so that you don't dismiss this as some sort of class-trolling, higher level Factotums have an ability that lets them ignore Spell Resistance on a spell by expending their class-provided resource per encounter, Inspiration.

I think it's ECL10+, but if you're tackling dragons that shouldn't be a problem. A bigger problem is that Factotums have substantially less raw arcane power than a Wizard. (Which is to be expected. If they didn't... :smallamused:) So a Factotum will cast a much weaker spell than a level equivalent Wizard, which might not get your job done, which negates the purpose of this exercise anyways.

Optimizing yourself as a Wizard is probably easier.

Optimystik
2010-05-27, 11:28 AM
Play a shadowcaster. :smallwink: With fix of course.

If you go this route, segue into Noctumancer and finish up with MT.

Greenish
2010-05-27, 11:29 AM
To elaborate, so that you don't dismiss this as some sort of class-trolling, higher level Factotums have an ability that lets them ignore Spell Resistance on a spell by expending their class-provided resource per encounter, Inspiration.Cunning Breach at level 11, also removes ignores DR. Yeah, factotum is not a pure caster, but you do get a handful of spells.

Poor beguilers, on the other hand, have to wait until level 20 (I think) and catch the opponent flat-footed to ignore their DR.

Gorbash
2010-05-27, 12:11 PM
I'm playing a Wizard in Shackled City campaign, and since our enemies are mostly outsiders I roll SR checks quite often. The way I'm dealing is boost CL to heavens and Spell Penetration. At lvl 16, my CL is 20 so I have +22 bonus to overcome SR. It usually does the trick. I wanted to take the feat Arcane Mastery that lets you to take 10 on SR checks, but DM didn't let me. Yours might, though. And there are A LOT of ways to boost CL, some of them have been mentioned here.

Also, somewhat offtopic:



I would like to be able to drop an adult dragon with a ray spell. If I can get one hit I can take it.

Unless you're playing in a solo game, I'd advise against this, since it kinda sucks for the rest of the party.

Fouredged Sword
2010-05-27, 04:05 PM
Mostly I want to have a plauseable explanation for why a character is running around with a zombie adult silver dragon. This is for a posible villan for a game I am running, and I would like to keep this plauseable, IE no DM powers. I have control over what I allow, and Chill touch will drop the dragon, but I want the NPC to be truely able to take the dragon.

The players will first face a set of undead dragons before facing the necromancer himself, a necropolitin Spellthief 1/ Wizard 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Dread Necromancer 8.

He will have versitile spellcaster to give up two slots for a higher level, so he can pull of 4th level spells. Also he has good items, and quite a hord of undead to play with.

The only problem is getting past the SR to hit the dragon with an actual spell. I want the guy to be truely able to do it.

And by lots of undead I mean 176 HD of them + 36 from his minion. He uses some stackingcaster level cheese. I have around 3 feats or so to play with, and any spells up to 4th. He can also have a posibility to steal a low level cleric spell from his minion if that will help.

He will be preped with wands he makes himself.

nedz
2010-05-27, 06:44 PM
Marshall Determined Caster(lesser aura) Adds their Cha to attempts to overcome SR.
Otherwise maximise your CL.

JaronK
2010-05-27, 07:19 PM
Factotums of course can indeed ignore SR at level 11 and when combined with Shivering Touch/Spectral Hand one shot TKO a dragon. Consider using their "add Int to damage rolls" ability to ensure that the 3d6 dex damage gets the job done.

JaronK

Fouredged Sword
2010-05-27, 08:57 PM
The character classes are basicly set. He is mostly an undead overlord. He won't have a full character spell progresion, so I am mostly looking for feats and wizard spells. The 4th level spells for droping SR sound like the trick. Him and some minions throwing that at a dragon would do the trick. Thanks guys!

Runestar
2010-05-27, 09:06 PM
Factotums of course can indeed ignore SR at level 11 and when combined with Shivering Touch/Spectral Hand one shot TKO a dragon. Consider using their "add Int to damage rolls" ability to ensure that the 3d6 dex damage gets the job done.

JaronK

I am fairly sure their +int to damage won't take the form of extra dex damage for shivering touch, just as sneak attacking with enervation would result in more negative lvs. :smalltongue:

Alternatively, convince your DM to try out the xorvintaal templates in MM5, which amongst other things, removes sr from a dragon. Whistle innocently when that proves to be a greater liability in combat than he expected. :smallwink:

Gorbash
2010-05-27, 09:59 PM
Mostly I want to have a plauseable explanation for why a character is running around with a zombie adult silver dragon. This is for a posible villan for a game I am running, and I would like to keep this plauseable, IE no DM powers. I have control over what I allow, and Chill touch will drop the dragon, but I want the NPC to be truely able to take the dragon.

The players will first face a set of undead dragons before facing the necromancer himself, a necropolitin Spellthief 1/ Wizard 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Dread Necromancer 8.

He will have versitile spellcaster to give up two slots for a higher level, so he can pull of 4th level spells. Also he has good items, and quite a hord of undead to play with.

The only problem is getting past the SR to hit the dragon with an actual spell. I want the guy to be truely able to do it.

And by lots of undead I mean 176 HD of them + 36 from his minion. He uses some stackingcaster level cheese. I have around 3 feats or so to play with, and any spells up to 4th. He can also have a posibility to steal a low level cleric spell from his minion if that will help.

He will be preped with wands he makes himself.

May I ask why 4 different arcane casting classes? I really don't see a point of that, it makes no sense.

Fouredged Sword
2010-05-28, 02:50 PM
The point is an inturpertation of CL and Undead control rules. The character has 4 classes at full caster level, but not progresion, due to master spell thief feat. Therefor he can control Caster level X 4 creatures with all four caster classes, as they can all cast animate undead, at least from a wand or such. That means caster level X 16 creatures. That is needed for him to reasonable be able to lead armies of undead.

Boci
2010-05-28, 03:00 PM
The point is an inturpertation of CL and Undead control rules. The character has 4 classes at full caster level, but not progresion, due to master spell thief feat. Therefor he can control Caster level X 4 creatures with all four caster classes, as they can all cast animate undead, at least from a wand or such. That means caster level X 16 creatures. That is needed for him to reasonable be able to lead armies of undead.

May I ask why you have no trouble abusing poorly worded rules but do not want to resort DM fiat? Just give him an artifact that allows him to control all those undead.

sofawall
2010-05-28, 03:05 PM
The point is an inturpertation of CL and Undead control rules. The character has 4 classes at full caster level, but not progresion, due to master spell thief feat. Therefor he can control Caster level X 4 creatures with all four caster classes, as they can all cast animate undead, at least from a wand or such. That means caster level X 16 creatures. That is needed for him to reasonable be able to lead armies of undead.

Wand uses the creators caster level, not yours.

Flickerdart
2010-05-28, 03:13 PM
(Su) abilities ignore spell resistance completely, so get your hands on one of the many ways to do this (Dweomerkeeper can, I believe) and you're golden.

true_shinken
2010-05-28, 03:55 PM
May I ask why you have no trouble abusing poorly worded rules but do not want to resort DM fiat? Just give him an artifact that allows him to control all those undead.
I agree. The idea of "hey, I'm an undead warlord, instead of practicing dread necromancy I learned how to steal spells, read spells from a book, stab people in their spleens and tap into my draconic ancestry just a little... because that allows me to control more undead. Hurray!" just sems plain... wrong.

Flickerdart
2010-05-28, 04:02 PM
I agree. The idea of "hey, I'm an undead warlord, instead of practicing dread necromancy I learned how to steal spells, read spells from a book, stab people in their spleens and tap into my draconic ancestry just a little... because that allows me to control more undead. Hurray!" just sems plain... wrong.
Easy. He was never satisfied with the amount of power that his path gave him (since they all led to the same spell) so he switched to a different one, only to be disappointed once more. He could be tragic, if the spell he was after didn't violate the principles of Good.

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 05:51 PM
So he gimped his CL... 4 times... in the pursuit of power? :smallconfused:

Thurbane
2010-05-28, 08:48 PM
Cunning Breach eh? Nasty. Combine with Ray of Dizziness to make melee based monsters cry...throw in a Cunning Surge to lob an Evard's Black Tentacles in the same round.

...probably much nastier combos around, but that's just off the top of my head.

Runestar
2010-05-29, 01:26 AM
So he gimped his CL... 4 times... in the pursuit of power? :smallconfused:

Hey, wotc did the exact same thing with the metamind prc in XPH. :smallbiggrin:

dextercorvia
2010-05-29, 01:40 AM
Which ray spell do you envision dropping the dragon?

Fouredged Sword
2010-05-29, 02:31 AM
There is a nice necro spell that does 3d6 dex damage. Spectal hand makes it a ranged touch.

The class spread does indeed sound a little silly. I may just DM the guy into a living negative energy being that has the increased undead cap as a racial ability with all of his levels as dread necromancer. Is there a sentent race native to the negative energy plane?

dextercorvia
2010-05-29, 07:27 AM
Silver dragons have cold immunity don't they?