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View Full Version : [Pathfinder]/[3.5E] Monk2/Rog1 - Do I go for +1AB or +1d4 bleed? + Equipment Advice,



Dakaar
2010-05-27, 07:37 PM
Hey All. I'm playing a Human Monk2 Rog1

I have:

12 str (have had a few str potions which are amazing, wish i had more points to spend)
18 dex
12 con
14 wis
10(or 12? whatever.) int
7 cha


My current flurry is +5/+5, and I am planning on takeing Aescetic Rogue, imp Natural Weapon and maybe Combat Reflexes/Mobil so I can take shadowdancer.

At any rate. I'm not sure where I should spend my level 3 feat. I can take Weapon Focus Unarmed to give myself a +6/+6 attack routine without any magic items or etc, or take Belier's Bite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/belier-s-bite-combat)

Your unarmed strikes cause your opponent to bleed.

Paizo Peripheral


This content is from Paizo, however it is not part of the Pathfinder Core Rules.
See here for details.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit: When you damage an opponent with an unarmed strike, you deal an extra 1d4 bleed damage.

Special: This ability does not stack with other special abilities, attacks, or items that allow you to deal bleed damage. "


Which feat is the better feat overall? I guess I'm wondering at what point is my AB "good enough" to worry about other things? My saves are prety good (5/10/5) and I rolled pretty decent for HP so I have 28hp at level 3, so I'm pretty happy with things sofar...

We have had some pretty challenging combats, but most things sofar seemed to have about 16-18 AC.

This is a pf feat from my campaign setting (Doing Council of Thieves).

I have essentially no magic items right now except some potions and alchemy related stuff. I have approx 2000gp (incl borrowing from a party member atm).

I'm planning on making either a 2-3use/day ring of mage armor, or a 24/7 ring of mage armor, as with our cheap supply of shield of faith potions, I'd have a 23 AC at level 3 which isnt shabby.

What else should I be looking for that I can purchase for under, say, 2000 gold? Is getting something enchanted with 'Magic Fang' worth it?

Is there any cheap method of enchanting Unarmed Strike? This is my first real in-person campaign, so I am not the best at this ;)

Edit:

My current feats are:

Dodge
Toughness (were using a wound/vitality system so it adds an extra wound point too)
+1 fort save trait
Weapon Finesse
Improved Grapple (I was originally planning on straight monk and would get the +full fighter bab to CMB next level but I dont think im going to go that route anymore... wish I could swap it for disarm or something at this point tbh)

Edit2: The DM has restricted to pretty much core PF, but is letting things on a well-see basis. I tried to go for unarmed swordsage and he said no way :P

He did say I could take for example Ascetic Rogue, IMP Natural Weapon, and "Defensive Throw" which gives you a free trip attack AoO when you get missed.

Edit3: Its also worth noting that we JUST hit 3 so I can change my Rogue choice if anyone has a better suggestion for a high-offensive attacker. In retrospect, I should have rolled a Fighter/Rogue, but I'm committed to unarmed and unarmored unless I want to throw away the Monk2 ive invested.

Mongoose87
2010-05-27, 07:38 PM
Well, I don't know about the bleed, but Don't Take Weapon Focus.

subject42
2010-05-27, 08:41 PM
So far in the game's I've been running for people, bleed is situationally awesome. It works best against spellcasters, since the PF concentration check rules are pretty harsh for ongoing damage.

If you're fighting anything other than living enemies, though, you're out of luck.

Hawriel
2010-05-28, 01:42 AM
Your fists are not natural weapons. So Imp natural weapon is an illeagal feat for you. Barring any house rules allowing it. Natual weapons are claws, horns, fangs, ect.

Magic Fang is useless to you because it is for creatures with natual weapons. Again that is claws, horns, fangs.

Im assuming your GM is allowing homebrew stuff from the internet, so maybe that Paizo feat is use able. I would not take it because it is broken. Every time you damage with an unarmed strike? I don't think so. Maybe on a confirmed crit, with Imp Crit as a prereq. In any case the crit feats in PF anyware neer that level of power are for higher level characters.

Oh flipping through the book I see a feat that already does bleading damage. You need critical focus and a +11 Bab and score a critical hit.

I would not take weapon focus, unless you are planning on taking fighter levels. Because the only feats that need weapon focus are useable only by fighters.

I was going to say take weapon finesse but you already have it. Hmm you kinda lost out on a feat. Take a 2nd rogue level and use the rogue talent for weapon finesse. Ask your GM if you can swap out the feat for a new one. Most GMs will let you do it. Or you could take weapon finesse as your rogue talent. This way you still have a feat coming to you for leveling.

Here is a list of feats that I think will be good for you.

Combat Expertise.
Some times you just really need that extra few points of AC. It also opens the door for Imp trip, imp faint, and disarm.

Imp trip.
It compliments grapple very nicely.

Agile Maneuvers.
Use your Dex for CMB. you have an 18 dex use that rather than your 12 strength.

Mobility.
+4 AC for movement triggered AOO. It also is needed for the shadowdancer PRC.

Power attack.
Power attack when the AC is low or when you want to brake somthing. You can then get cleave.

Cleave. If you hit with one attack you can get a free attack on another enemy.

Imp Sunder.
Brake a wizards staff, or a fighters shield, a weapon. Or you can kick in a door, after all thats what your kung fu is reall about. Braking wood and brick.


As for your magic Item.
ghost touch weapon.
ring of protection +1. It's deflection so it works against incomporial and all touch attacks.

Handy Haversack. This is just a must. If you only have 2000 Gold get this.

Oh and Cold Iron nuckle dusters for when you need to punch a demond

Volthawk
2010-05-28, 01:50 AM
Your fists are not natural weapons. So Imp natural weapon is an illeagal feat for you. Barring any house rules allowing it. Natual weapons are claws, horns, fangs, ect.


Wrong. Monk Unarmed strikes count as natural weapons.



A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 01:58 AM
Im assuming your GM is allowing homebrew stuff from the internet, so maybe that Paizo feat is use able. I would not take it because it is broken. Every time you damage with an unarmed strike? I don't think so. Maybe on a confirmed crit, with Imp Crit as a prereq. In any case the crit feats in PF anyware neer that level of power are for higher level characters.



IMO is not broken at all. Does not stack with other bleeding effects, an need IUS. It's fine IMO.

imperialspectre
2010-05-28, 01:58 AM
Well, the PF people don't approve of it, because they don't believe in monks having nice things. Jason said Imp. Natural Attack couldn't be accessed by monks on a forum or something, and it's supposed to be considered "errata."

However, in the book as written, monks definitely do qualify for INA, and it's a fairly core feat for 3.5 monks.

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 02:07 AM
Well, the PF people don't approve of it, because they don't believe in monks having nice things. Jason said Imp. Natural Attack couldn't be accessed by monks on a forum or something, and it's supposed to be considered "errata."

However, in the book as written, monks definitely do qualify for INA, and it's a fairly core feat for 3.5 monks.

Actually, the board quite exploded after that statement.. and in right. IMO it's a nice thing at level 20 a 12d8 standard action attack for a fast attack class like the monk. You can jump and strike, move (a lot) and strike..

Strike and Abundant Step or Spring Attack and strike for hit and run tactics. It does not break nothing. :smallbiggrin:

Moreover, an official errata isn't out, yet, and maybe they change their mind. Until is official.. go to punch people! Kung-fu Fighting!

QuantumSteve
2010-05-28, 02:28 AM
IMO is not broken at all. Does not stack with other bleeding effects, an need IUS. It's fine IMO.

2d4 extra damage, per round, that stacks with itself? That's 50 bleed damage in just 4 rounds. That's more damage than the Monk is doing. That's better than a Vital Strike that works on a full attack and it's not broken?

Another_Poet
2010-05-28, 02:29 AM
I'd take Bleed.

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 03:37 AM
2d4 extra damage, per round, that stacks with itself? That's 50 bleed damage in just 4 rounds. That's more damage than the Monk is doing. That's better than a Vital Strike that works on a full attack and it's not broken?

In Pathfinder, bleeding of the same kind does not stack. A rogue cannot Bleeding Attack you twice, and a fighter cannot Deadly Stroke you twice to increase the constitution belled from 1 to 2.

In addition, this feat specifically does not stack even with OTHER bleed.. how could it be broken?

QuantumSteve
2010-05-28, 04:51 AM
In Pathfinder, bleeding of the same kind does not stack. A rogue cannot Bleeding Attack you twice, and a fighter cannot Deadly Stroke you twice to increase the constitution belled from 1 to 2.

In addition, this feat specifically does not stack even with OTHER bleed.. how could it be broken?

I was looking at Bleeding Critical which does stack with itself. I retrospect, this feat is not broken at all, 1d4 is less than most rogues would get with Bleeding Attack.

Dakaar
2010-05-28, 07:35 AM
Im assuming your GM is allowing homebrew stuff from the internet, so maybe that Paizo feat is use able. I would not take it because it is broken.

The Paizo feat isn't homebrew or internet ,unelss you count from Paizo :P

Its actually from the Campaign Setting for Council of Thieves, in the Chelliax book. Which is why he allowed it. We are playing a CoT game :smallbiggrin:

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 07:39 AM
The Paizo feat isn't homebrew or internet ,unelss you count from Paizo :P

Its actually from the Campaign Setting for Council of Thieves, in the Chelliax book. Which is why he allowed it. We are playing a CoT game :smallbiggrin:

I was only discussing if was broken or not. I never said was homebrew. Moreover, It was easy to undestand the sorce from the link you bringed.

Dakaar
2010-05-28, 07:43 AM
Its worth noting that at rog2 , so CL 5, I can take the rogue talent that gives 1 bleeding damage per sneak attack die, but I think that our adventure is going to top out at level 6-8 so I'm not trying to plan too far out into the future.

Theres alot of times where imp sunder would have been pretty good. We were fighting alot of guys that initially had a crossbow out, and I wish I could have just snagged/broke their melee weapons before they had a chance to use them.

As far as Knuckle-Dusters is there anything of the sort thats reasonably universally-accepted? I know theres that Mighty Fists amulet, but it seems like its alot more expensive than getting say a +1 weapon at low levels.

Thanks for the feedback folks.


Your fists are not natural weapons. So Imp natural weapon is an illeagal feat for you. Barring any house rules allowing it. Natual weapons are claws, horns, fangs, ect.

Magic Fang is useless to you because it is for creatures with natual weapons. Again that is claws, horns, fangs.

Im assuming your GM is allowing homebrew stuff from the internet, so maybe that Paizo feat is use able. I would not take it because it is broken. Every time you damage with an unarmed strike? I don't think so. Maybe on a confirmed crit, with Imp Crit as a prereq. In any case the crit feats in PF anyware neer that level of power are for higher level characters.

Oh flipping through the book I see a feat that already does bleading damage. You need critical focus and a +11 Bab and score a critical hit.

I would not take weapon focus, unless you are planning on taking fighter levels. Because the only feats that need weapon focus are useable only by fighters.

I was going to say take weapon finesse but you already have it. Hmm you kinda lost out on a feat. Take a 2nd rogue level and use the rogue talent for weapon finesse. Ask your GM if you can swap out the feat for a new one. Most GMs will let you do it. Or you could take weapon finesse as your rogue talent. This way you still have a feat coming to you for leveling.

Here is a list of feats that I think will be good for you.

Combat Expertise.
Some times you just really need that extra few points of AC. It also opens the door for Imp trip, imp faint, and disarm.

Imp trip.
It compliments grapple very nicely.

Agile Maneuvers.
Use your Dex for CMB. you have an 18 dex use that rather than your 12 strength.

Mobility.
+4 AC for movement triggered AOO. It also is needed for the shadowdancer PRC.

Power attack.
Power attack when the AC is low or when you want to brake somthing. You can then get cleave.

Cleave. If you hit with one attack you can get a free attack on another enemy.

Imp Sunder.
Brake a wizards staff, or a fighters shield, a weapon. Or you can kick in a door, after all thats what your kung fu is reall about. Braking wood and brick.


As for your magic Item.
ghost touch weapon.
ring of protection +1. It's deflection so it works against incomporial and all touch attacks.

Handy Haversack. This is just a must. If you only have 2000 Gold get this.

Oh and Cold Iron nuckle dusters for when you need to punch a demond

Dakaar
2010-05-28, 07:44 AM
I was only discussing if was broken or not. I never said was homebrew. Moreover, It was easy to undestand the sorce from the link you bringed.

:smallfrown: Sorry. I quoted the wrong post! I Meant the other guy!

Kaiyanwang
2010-05-28, 07:56 AM
:smallfrown: Sorry. I quoted the wrong post! I Meant the other guy!

Nevermind :smallwink: