The Energy Project(3.5) [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:37 AM

Alright, first some backgroundWhen I was younger(about 2-3 years ago) I began to develop a sort of mind game. It involved people with superpower-like abilities, and it was...well, imagine watching TV, but with total control. That's what it's like. After a while, these powers went along a common theme. "Energy" was used to power attacks, super-strength, super-speed and the like, along with healing and regeneration. After my introduction to DnD, I made several attempts to make stats for this. The first, known as the "Aura" system, was never really hammered out well. The second one lost steam quickly and died. The problem with both of these, I know think, is that they were isolated, and done entirely by one person: me.

Therefore, I have come here. This system, I'll call it the "Energy System" for now, should be a fairly versatile system, able to incorporate existing material and allow for new additions, sort of like the psionics system. It should allow for Energy-based powers and abilities, like flight, breathing in an inhospitable environment, going without food/water, healing, regeneration and even resurrection.

Hopefully, this will be the start of a long project that will end up with a balanced system with classes, feats, (maybe) skills, monsters and a system of Energy itself.

Well then, let's get started.

Work done so far(write up):

Upon gaining your first level in an Channeling class, you choose one of your six ability scores(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) as your primary Channeling stat. Then choose two others to be your secondaries. The remaining three become your tertiaries. You gain Pool points equal to [Channeler level x primary stat mod + your Channeler level + your secondary stat mods]. So a level 1 Channeler with a primary of 16, secondaries of 14 and 13 would gain [1*3+1+(1+2)=7] points. You always gain at least your new level in Pool points upon reaching a new level.

Each of the six ability scores has two Streams associated with it.
Strength: Offensive, Physical
Dexterity: 'Tactical', Physical
Constitution: Defensive, Physical
Wisdom: Defensive, Mental
Inteligence: 'Tactical', Mental
Charisma: Offensive, Mental
List by Ferrin

Each Stream has a number of Powers in it, for example the Defensive Stream has powers that may enhance AC, give Damage Reduction and the like.

Ferrin continues to produce ideas:(write up by me)
At each level of a Channeling class, you gain a number of Research Points to spend to gain more Powers Known. Primary powers cost 3 RPs, Intermediates 2 and Tertiaries 1.
Ferrin:
Prime Power Flow Cost: 2 per power level.
Intermediate Power Flow Cost: 3 per power level.
Tertiary Power Flow Cost: 4 per power level.

Backflow: 1 per power level.

Backflow can be regained as a move action, requiring a DC 20 Concentration check to recover [Channeler level+Primary stat mod] Backflow. At any time, you can meditate for 1 minute to recover as much of your backflow as you wish.

Powers
Blast, Basic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645638&postcount=145)

Shield, Basic; Body Control; Mind Alteration (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645955&postcount=149])

Mind Surge and Basic Burst (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8668786&postcount=157)

Body Conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8676513&postcount=163)

Mental Conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8688451&postcount=165)

Speed Burst and Speed Clones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8688735&postcount=166)

Energy Sight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8718595&postcount=170)

arguskos

2010-05-28, 12:40 AM

Ok, because PersonMan didn't mention this, the reason it's back now is because he, Temotei221, and I were yakking in another thread or two about lots of stuff, and this came up. The concept was tossed out there that we could tag-team into a powerhouse of awesome idea-making, and thus, here we are.

Now, uh, PersonMan, what do you have, if anything, to start with?

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:42 AM

Yeah.

At this point? Not really, but I was thinking that it should be a point-bases system, based on several core disciplines.
Red: Offensive, damage-dealing.
Blue: Defensive, healing.
Grey: Neutralizing of other disciplines.

There are others, but for now those are the base ones.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 12:46 AM

Hmm. Point based is a possibility. Let's keep that one out there. Other options? I like having choices, since between the three of us, we could come up with some damn creative stuff I'd bet.

I've been considering taking the general idea of the "discs" from my Extinguisher and broadening it into a larger system (was thinking about doing that for the new Base Class Contest). Perhaps an object-based system might be a possibility?

Or, hey, what about a "barter" system? Not sure what I mean, but I have this half-formed idea I'm trying to put down... something involving trading points around, so you have X total points to throw around and each time you use some you get some of another type back, it'd be like an energy flow almost.

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 12:48 AM

Right, point based. So, how many points do you think per level? Maybe do it per encounter? Just throwing out suggestions.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:49 AM

Or, hey, what about a "barter" system? Not sure what I mean, but I have this half-formed idea I'm trying to put down... something involving trading points around, so you have X total points to throw around and each time you use some you get some of another type back, it'd be like an energy flow almost.

This. It fits with the flavor of several classes I'm planning on making for this, and makes sense. For example, the Red/Blue/Grey Energy Adept base classes.

REA: Gives mostly Red points, small number of Blue ones.
BEA: Gives mostly Blue points, small number of Red ones.
GEA: Gives 1/2 Grey points, 1/4 Blue, 1/4 Red.

EDIT: Exactly. This is where I hit a block before. I'm thinking that it should be enough that, at later levels you should be able to go a while before exhausting yourself, or use several powerful things a smaller number of times...Augmenting weaker abilities like with psionics, "charging" your attacks...

Melayl

2010-05-28, 12:52 AM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:54 AM

You could do something similar to Incarnum. Give them a certain number of abilities per level/stat bonus/whatever, and then a certain amount of "energy" to spread between them. Only the abilities with "energy" invested in them are functional. Each ability can only have so much "energy" invested in it, increasing with levels/feats.

You can limit the number of times per day/hour/round/whatever that the "energy" can be redistributed.

(this is actually something I briefly sketched out shortly after reading MoI)

I see. Maybe spread it out per stat?

Strength: Per X energy, Strength is effectively Y points higher, for Z amount of time before re-investment is needed.
Dexterity: Per X energy,[like strength, maybe add Evasion and the like for high costs/with feats?]
Healing: For X energy you heal Y(+level?) damage?

EDIT: Maybe a new stat specifically to measure the amount of Energy you have? Or should we base it off of something different(depending on your discipline?)?

Temotei

2010-05-28, 12:58 AM

Or, hey, what about a "barter" system? Not sure what I mean, but I have this half-formed idea I'm trying to put down... something involving trading points around, so you have X total points to throw around and each time you use some you get some of another type back, it'd be like an energy flow almost.

Sort of like the edgewalker (I think that's the one.) in the last contest that traded light and shadow points around? Interesting.

Red aspects: Anger, rage, mania, offense, fire
Blue aspects: Sad, dementia, defense, healing, cold
Grey aspects: Mellow, balance, void, dead, motionless, dying

"Red adepts" could use their "energy" to fire up emotions in themselves, causing both internal and external improvements.

Melayl

2010-05-28, 01:00 AM

You can do something like that. I had things like:

* Blast: for each point you invest, gain1d(6,8, etc) damage blast of (some type of element)

* Resistant: for each point, gain X DR/-

* Flight: for each point, gain Fly speed X

*Fast Healing: 1:1 ratio for X rounds (Con mod or level or such)

Etc, etc.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:01 AM

Also, another thing that I've used now and then is the burning of "life force" to gain a huge short-term power boost. Maybe a sort of mechanic where you can irreversibly drain a point or two of some stat to gain [points burned]*[X+level] points?

@^Exactly what I was thinking. However, the hard part is figuring out the X and Y values.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:01 AM

Ok, the idea of the "flow" as I'm going to call it seems to have caught on.

I've got an idea I'm working on, give me a few.

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:03 AM

Also, another thing that I've used now and then is the burning of "life force" to gain a huge short-term power boost. Maybe a sort of mechanic where you can irreversibly drain a point or two of some stat to gain [points burned]*[X+level] points?

Yeah, and maybe say you can get back that drain by spending double what you gained? Or less, I suppose.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:04 AM

This is the Flow System, and even if it's not used here, I AM SO STEALING IT, cause I like it.

You have a unique "ability score" almost, called Flow. Flow is determined by your level in Flow granting classes multiplied by your Flow Stat (depends on your specialty, red could be charisma, blue could be intelligence, I dunno, you get the idea, there'd be six total specialties obviously). When you choose your specialty (happens the first time you gain Flow points, so when you take your first level in Flow-granting classes or whatever), you also choose two secondary specialties, the three remaining ones becoming your tertiaries. You can spend Flow to generate special effects on a 1:1 basis with your primary, a 3:1 basis with your secondaries, and a 5:1 basis with your tertiaries. Further, you can combine costs, so you could spend 5 Flow on a Primary Effect AND add another 6 in there for Secondary Effects.

Now, obviously, the concept would have to be CRAZY balanced to make all the effects work together, but I think it's got some serious promise. Thoughts?

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:06 AM

Yeah, and maybe say you can get back that drain by spending double what you gained? Or less, I suppose.

Or, maybe some super-expensive/rare items/artifacts to heal the drain? Maybe only healed by a Blue-specialist with a specific prestige class that can pour days' worth of energy into it? The thing is, I want this to be really permanent, like permanent-permanent. Not kinda-sorta-maybe not-permanent, but like "We need to win! HEROIC SACRIFICEEEEE!" kinda thing.

Also, there could also be an energy-draining mechanic. Maybe a feat to allow willing drain(or a few points from non-sentient creatures?) and a (Red?) prestige class to allow vampire-like Energy draining?

@^THE PLUSSES. THEY ARE YOURS. Ahem. Yes. Maybe...
Red=Strength
Blue=Constitution(taking hits, healing...)
Darkness=Dexterity(dodging, hiding, SA...)
Grey=Intelligence(finding weaknesses in Energy?)
?=Wisdom
White=Charisma(sort of an extreme version of Red, maybe only prc-able?)

EDIT2: I swear, you guys are going to make me have an all-nighter. I hope you're satisfied! :smallamused:

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:09 AM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:12 AM

Strength: Physical Attacks/Enhancements (like Bulls Strength, for example)
Dexterity: Stealth
Constitution: Healing, revival (?)
Intelligence: Divination
Wisdom: Mental Buffs
Charisma: Offensive magical abilities (eg, something like Fireball)

I know. We attach 'suites' of techniques to each stat, and...sort of like descriptors. Each 'suite'(say, fire) has an attribute tag, and each energy class can access several suites?

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:13 AM

Strength: Physical Attacks/Enhancements (like Bulls Strength, for example)
Dexterity: Stealth
Constitution: Healing, revival (?)
Intelligence: Divination
Wisdom: Mental Buffs
Charisma: Offensive magical abilities (eg, something like Fireball)

To tack on the color scheme, I would probably roll with them in the following order: Green, Blue, Gold, Grey, Yellow, Red. This would just be a cosmetic sorta thing, obviously, but would be an excellent way of determining what you were doing at any given time.

Also, I probably need to sleep sometime soon. Might want to wrap this for the night or some such.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:15 AM

To tack on the color scheme, I would probably roll with them in the following order: Green, Blue, Gold, Grey, Yellow, Red. This would just be a cosmetic sorta thing, obviously, but would be an excellent way of determining what you were doing at any given time.

Also, I probably need to sleep sometime soon. Might want to wrap this for the night or some such.

I was thinking there'd be a small number of bases, which you could "mix" to get into other specialties, like the color wheel.

Maybe:
Strength: Red?
Constitution: Blue and Red, maybe? "Two sides of the same coin"?

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:16 AM

I was thinking there'd be a small number of bases, which you could "mix" to get into other specialties, like the color wheel.

Maybe:
Strength: Red?
Constitution: Blue and Red, maybe? "Two sides of the same coin"?

Maybe get more colours as you level up?

This could work, as you have to have certain colours to get hold of the other colours...

Melayl

2010-05-28, 01:18 AM

I know. We attach 'suites' of techniques to each stat, and...sort of like descriptors. Each 'suite'(say, fire) has an attribute tag, and each energy class can access several suites?

This is a good idea. I'll try to find my old notes and see what else they had.

Also, I probably need to sleep sometime soon. Might want to wrap this for the night or some such.

This is also a good idea... :smallsmile:

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:19 AM

I can see that. For the Flow system as currently envisioned, we do need six base colors though. Let's roll with Red, Yellow, Blue, Grey, White, and Black (the most basic of the six colors I can think of, though Grey needs to change to something else I think).

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:19 AM

How about, for example:
White(Str, Con, Wis):Pre-requisites Red, ?
Suites: Offensive, Fire, Ability Burn, Backlash(?)

I'm thinking White should be a sort of superpowered fire. Think hellfire/Searing Spell.
Maybe some othes? Pink super-vibrant life(maybe like the +Energy plane?), Green a mix of Blue and Red?

I think we should define the colors before going further into the system behind them.

EDIT: Perhaps Gray is like the "universal" suite? Where all colors dip into to get counter-techniques, and some specialists? Maybe you can attatch it to any non-Flow stat?

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:21 AM

It's morning for me...

Anyway, maybe get access to other colours as you level?

Like:

1:Primary
4:Secondary 1
7:Secondary 2
10:Tertiary 1
13:Tertiary 2
16:Tertiary 3

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:22 AM

1:Primary
4:Secondary 1
7:Secondary 2
10:Tertiary 1
13:Tertiary 2
16:Tertiary 3

Maybe
1: 1st Primary
3: 1st Secondary
5: 1st Tertiary
7: 2nd Secondary
9: 2nd Tertiary

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:23 AM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:25 AM

Eh, I actually am adverse to tying this to colors before we have a mechanical system to make it all run. We can change the stuff on the outside till we're blue in the face (lolpun) but changing the system later is always a bitch.

I see. Alright, then. Let's leave the colors for later. For now, how about some basics.

System: Points, probably stat-based. Primary+Secondary+Tertiary all have seperate pools. Universal pool to use all points in.

Sound good?

Temotei

2010-05-28, 01:25 AM

Eh, I actually am adverse to tying this to colors before we have a mechanical system to make it all run. We can change the stuff on the outside till we're blue in the face (lolpun) but changing the system later is always a bitch.

Agreed. We should always have the colors and how they'll relate to the mechanics in the background, however.

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:25 AM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:28 AM

So, point formula?

Maybe level+2*STAT MOD? With STAT MOD being your primary?

Cool. How about something like:

Manipulator Level(like Caster Level)*STAT MOD+X(from class) in primary.
3/4 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-1) in secondary
1/2 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-3?) in tertiary?

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:30 AM

Cool. How about something like:

Manipulator Level(like Caster Level)*STAT MOD+X(from class) in primary.
3/4 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-1) in secondary
1/2 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-3?) in tertiary?

Sounds good to me.

And we're in page 2. Already.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:31 AM

Nice. Looking good so far.

I hope this doesn't just die tomorrow morning...

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:32 AM

Nice. Looking good so far.

I hope this doesn't just die tomorrow morning...

Well, I can stay for half an hour, then I won't be back for at least a day.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:34 AM

I see. Why?

Anyways, how about Suites.

Let's brainstorm for descriptors for a bit, alright?

Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Force, Healing, Positive, Negative

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:35 AM

I see. Alright, then. Let's leave the colors for later. For now, how about some basics.

System: Points, probably stat-based. Primary+Secondary+Tertiary all have seperate pools. Universal pool to use all points in.

Sound good?
That... actually wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that each pool has a base cost in points, but there is only one source of points, not multiple kinds of points.

For example, a level 1 Flowshaper (or whatever) who was focused on Strength and secondary in Dex/Int would have 1 times his Str mod (let's say that is +4) Flow points, so, 4 points total at level 1. He could spend points on a 1:1 basis to fuel Str abilities, and spend them on a 3:1 basis to use Dex/Int abilities. I hadn't worked out the recovery mechanic at the moment, but here, let's roll with this:

For each point in your primary pool, you can recover them on a 1:1 basis (making those basically at-will abilities). For each point in your secondary pools, you can recover them at a 2:1 basis (so, if you spend 3 points on a secondary, you can only get 2 back into your main pool to be used again latter, creating attrition). The tertiary pool would be on a 3:1 recovery basis (so, you spend 5, and can only get 3 back).

The idea here is that you can move them around, but your secondaries/tertiaries are just that: not your primary.

EDIT: What do "suites" add? You already have multiple levels of interplay with multiple pools and tiered ability focuses, what do suites add that makes the system better?

Volthawk

2010-05-28, 01:36 AM

I see. Why?

Anyways, how about Suites.

Let's brainstorm for descriptors for a bit, alright?

Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Force, Healing, Positive, Negative

Seeing my nan.

Anyway, descriptors. I have more:

Defensive
Venomous
Natural
Extraplanar

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:39 AM

I see. That looks good. I'm thinking, however, that there should be attrition even with the main ability, to facilitate "running out of juice". I'm thinking we might have secondary/tertiary abilities cost more, and create a sort of "trickle regain", like for every 5 points Primary you get 2 back, but for every 10 points Secondary you get 2 back, you know?

EDIT: Descriptors list so far:
Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, Force, Healing, Positive, Negative, Defensive, Venomous, Natural, Extraplanar, Offensive

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:41 AM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:42 AM

On suites: I'm not shooting down suites, I just don't see what they add to a system, given the color combination thing we've got going, a potential point recovery mechanism, the multi-leveled system thing, suites just seem extra and like this is already a bit much. Apparently, folks missed my query about that.

As for the attrition thing, I'm going to disagree, and here's why: if you run down to only a few points that you keep cycling in and out of your primary, you're not going to be very good. Each primary is going to be narrow in scope, yes? Further, Warlocks have all their stuff all day long, why not give you that option too, especially with more narrow abilities that are constrained by how many points you can spend?

True. Maybe we could add in Suites later, to be like spell schools?

Makes sense. Maybe we should have Tiers of abilities? You get your Primary Tier 1s all day, but the higher Tiers cost more? It's just that I don't want to make this super-complicated, but I don't want everyone throwing around their strongest stuff all day.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:51 AM

True. Maybe we could add in Suites later, to be like spell schools?

Makes sense. Maybe we should have Tiers of abilities? You get your Primary Tier 1s all day, but the higher Tiers cost more? It's just that I don't want to make this super-complicated, but I don't want everyone throwing around their strongest stuff all day.
Well, my original idea combines multi-school effects (the multiple pools and stats) with psionic-style point expenditure (so, you have levels of powers inside each stat that cost certain base points).

Now, with this concept, you can't do something like buy into the blended color trees all day long (they're partially a non-primary color, and thus drain your points), but you could buy into your primary, which is fine. Again, look at the Warlock for reasoning. They do EVERYTHING all day long. Why not you with your more narrow focus?

EDIT: I'm going to bed, it's 3 AM. G'night folks, I'll do a more complete draw up of my proposed system tomorrow.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:54 AM

Well, my original idea combines multi-school effects (the multiple pools and stats) with psionic-style point expenditure (so, you have levels of powers inside each stat that cost certain base points).

Now, with this concept, you can't do something like buy into the blended color trees all day long (they're partially a non-primary color, and thus drain your points), but you could buy into your primary, which is fine. Again, look at the Warlock for reasoning. They do EVERYTHING all day long. Why not you with your more narrow focus?

True. Alright, then, what about numbers? How many points do we want everything to cost? I think that once we get a good grip on the numbers we can apply powers and various systems. I'm thinking a modular sort of thing, with a chassis vanilla low-or-no cost power, with little add-ons that cost points(different damage type, repeating damage, etc.).

arguskos

2010-05-28, 01:55 AM

True. Alright, then, what about numbers? How many points do we want everything to cost? I think that once we get a good grip on the numbers we can apply powers and various systems. I'm thinking a modular sort of thing, with a chassis vanilla low-or-no cost power, with little add-ons that cost points(different damage type, repeating damage, etc.).
I'm going to bed, but, this will be first on my list tomorrow, promise. :smallwink:

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 01:55 AM

I'm going to bed, but, this will be first on my list tomorrow, promise. :smallwink:

Coo'.

Anyways, I'll have a go at the points and post my results so we have a starting point.

Only goes to level 10 for now, but...
{table]Level|Base Points(Full-Flow class)
1|4;4
2|6;5
3|9;6
4|13;8
5|19;11
6|27;15
7|40;21
8|60;30
9|90;44
10|135;65[/table]

Alright, at first I tried 4+(1/2 previous+1), ending up with(4,7,11,17,26,50,76,115,173...).
Now I went with 4; adding 1/2 of the previous number. It's fast-growing, especially at higher levels and eventually we'll end up with crazy amounts of points, but...
Then I tried(after the ; symbol) 4+(1/2 previous-1). The result is a slower-growing number that still gives lots of points in the later levels, but gives you very few until around level 7, making stat bonuses very important.

The_Admiral

2010-05-28, 10:03 AM

i think this exist in
mutants and masterminds

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 10:06 AM

Care to elaborate?

The_Admiral

2010-05-28, 10:13 AM

well it is extremely flexible for one thing

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 10:15 AM

But does it do this? Does it do what was listed as the goals for this project?

arguskos

2010-05-28, 12:21 PM

Ok, checked your chart there. I... was not actually thinking of giving any base points, or maybe just a very basic amount like levelx2. Here's a thought though for a point formula:

Base Points equal to your Flow Level.
Bonus Points equal to your Flow Level times your primary specialty stat modifier + the stat modifiers of your secondary specialties.

Example: level 5 flow; primary Str, secondary Dex/Int; Str 18, Dex 14, Int 12; total points: 5 for level + 5x4 (primary) + 2 + 1 (secondaries) = 28 at level 5. Thoughts?

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:27 PM

That works. Maybe we could have some feats to increase the amount of points you have, later.

Alright, that mechanic looks good. Now, for the powers themselves I'm thinking of having a chassis that costs very few(maybe 1 or 0) points, with various possible add-ons(sorta like metamagic/metapsionics).

arguskos

2010-05-28, 12:28 PM

I was considering a tree that goes from base 1 point to base 9 points (so, 9 levels of effects, glorious how that works), with a basic augmentation system, akin to psionics as well.

I do not think having powers with base 0 point cost is wise, and recommend against it highly.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 12:34 PM

I see. So nine 'levels' of powers, then. How about the basic abilities be the lower/lowest level ones, and the higher-level ones be more complex ones or additional abilities? Maybe you could combine several effects into a single power.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 03:54 PM

Soooo, like spells? Go figure. :smalltongue:

But yes, that was the concept at heart.

Now that we have the basic system, assigning colors and one narrow focus to each stat needs to occur, so we can start making abilities for each stat.

My suggestions follow:
Str (Red): Physical power
Dex (Blue): Speed
Con (Yellow): Physical endurance
Int (Grey): Mental power
Wis (White): Clear understanding
Cha (???): Emotion

The idea is that each basic color is very very specific. Every single thing that Str gets is going to be about physical power, using physical power, or enhancing your or others physical powers. Same with everything else.

The colors come in for thematic reasons and for when the color-blending occurs, which I'm thinking happens as a prestige class (tentatively called mixing). The idea I've got for the blending is that when you take a level in the mixing PrC, you unlock a special pool for points. This pool would represent a single blended color (let's go with Indigo [Red/Blue]), which would have unique powers. Of course, this is getting somewhat ahead of our current goal (defining all the basic six colors and getting some powers down).

By the by, I jut thought of a good name for these powers: palettes. It's in the color theme, it's a name unused anywhere in D&D that I'm aware of, and it sounds good. Thoughts?

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 04:02 PM

Looks good. Although, I'm thinking that Blue might be better for Constitution, since it's more defense than evasion.

So
Strenth: Red; Offensive/physical
Dexterity: Yellow; Dodging/???
Constitution: Blue; Defensive/physical
Intelligence: Grey; Defensive/countering
Wisdom: White; Senses/???
Charisma: Pink; Emotion/Morale
?

I'm thinking that each color would have two "tags", and that some colors share tags, making them easier to "blend" via prestige classes.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 04:08 PM

Still not sure what this tag thing is about, that's not been explained to me yet. :smalltongue:

Also, eh, looks alright I guess. Dex should in that case be Evasion/Speed I'd think, and Wis could be Senses/not sure. :smallconfused:

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 04:14 PM

Basically, each color would have two things it does. Red is offensive/physical, so it would have damage-dealing powers and some offensive buffs, for example.

At least that's how I think it'd work.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 04:16 PM

Fair enough.

Also, I'm logging off for a bit here.

Temotei

2010-05-28, 04:23 PM

By the by, I jut thought of a good name for these powers: palettes. It's in the color theme, it's a name unused anywhere in D&D that I'm aware of, and it sounds good. Thoughts?

I see this stepping on the prism's toes a bit. :smallamused:

The concept in general is different, as I'm making a base class while this is a system, but still.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 04:45 PM

I see this stepping on the prism's toes a bit. :smallamused:

The concept in general is different, as I'm making a base class while this is a system, but still.
Don't look at me, he suggested the color thing. Personally, I don't think it's ideal for this, but, PersonMan seems to like it, so it stays.

Also, how the hell can I step on the toes of something that isn't released yet? It's like claiming I'm infringing on the copyright of a non-copywritten thing, just cause you've got the paperwork on your desk. :smalltongue:

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 04:47 PM

Hmm. Arguskos, out of curiosity, what do you think would be best for this system, rather than the colors?

arguskos

2010-05-28, 05:07 PM

Hmm. Arguskos, out of curiosity, what do you think would be best for this system, rather than the colors?
Just the tags. The idea of a mixing system is good, don't get me wrong, but it feels like the colors themselves are just thematic. Using your idea of the tags for ease of mixing, we can get the same effect and let the user describe it as they wish.

Course, that's just what I'd do. It's at heart your project. :smallwink:

Temotei

2010-05-28, 05:22 PM

Also, how the hell can I step on the toes of something that isn't released yet? It's like claiming I'm infringing on the copyright of a non-copywritten thing, just cause you've got the paperwork on your desk. :smalltongue:

I didn't say that. Or, at least, I didn't mean that. It's a bit unclear.

I meant that it will step on the prism's toes.

Tags work just fine. It gets away from the whole color theme, which not only makes me happy, but also gives a system that will be a bit different in that everything will be more abstract than what we're used to.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 05:25 PM

I didn't say that. Or, at least, I didn't mean that. It's a bit unclear.
At first I was like :smallsmile:

I meant that it will step on the prism's toes.
but then I was :smallconfused:.

So... you didn't mean it would step on the Prism's toes, but it will step on the Prism's toes? Make up your mind, gorrammit! :smalltongue:

Tags work just fine. It gets away from the whole color theme, which not only makes me happy, but also gives a system that will be a bit different in that everything will be more abstract than what we're used to.
Basically this, once you explained the point of the tags.

Also, you still don't have a monopoly on colors you know. Given how long you've been talking about that project, I'm starting to think it's never happening. :smalltongue: Alsoalso, you did use prism. Good man.

Temotei

2010-05-28, 05:31 PM

At first I was like :smallsmile:

but then I was :smallconfused:.

So... you didn't mean it would step on the Prism's toes, but it will step on the Prism's toes? Make up your mind, gorrammit! :smalltongue:

I meant that it will step on the prism's toes, not that it is right now.

I thought you thought I meant that it is stepping on Mr. P's stones as of now. Not yet, but colors will take over the world if so, because Mr. P doesn't take too kindly to having his bones broken. Nope. Nope. Nope, nope, nope.

Basically this, once you explained the point of the tags.

Also, you still don't have a monopoly on colors you know. Given how long you've been talking about that project, I'm starting to think it's never happening. :smalltongue: Alsoalso, you did use prism. Good man.

I also am using palette and swatches. :smalltongue:

I'm coming up with a bunch of swatches right now, since I actually don't have homework unless I find a movie based in Africa that has a bit of history.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 05:39 PM

I meant that it will step on the prism's toes, not that it is right now.

I thought you thought I meant that it is stepping on Mr. P's stones as of now. Not yet, but colors will take over the world if so, because Mr. P doesn't take too kindly to having his bones broken. Nope. Nope. Nope, nope, nope.
It can just deal. Does it really want to tangle with some of my other works? Really? Let's pair this prism fellow with the Blade Lord of Chains, see who wins. :smalltongue:

I also am using palette and swatches. :smalltongue:

I'm coming up with a bunch of swatches right now, since I actually don't have homework unless I find a movie based in Africa that has a bit of history.
You stole palette from me too?! YOU THIEVING BASTARD! :smallfurious::smallwink:

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 05:41 PM

Actually, that makes sense. I mean, with a more blank description we could accomplish what I want(the colors of energies) and what others may want at the same time, with a simple refluffing.

EDIT: I love how a didn't even see the page 3 stuff when I wrote my reply, yet it's still completely relevant!

Temotei

2010-05-28, 06:31 PM

You stole palette from me too?! YOU THIEVING BASTARD! :smallfurious::smallwink:

Technically, you said "palatte" in that PM. :smalltongue:

arguskos

2010-05-28, 06:31 PM

Technically, you said palatte in that PM. :smalltongue:
YOU THIEVING BASTARD! :smallfurious::smalltongue:

'sall good.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 06:45 PM

Temotei

2010-05-28, 06:47 PM

DERSHA FLERG FLERG

RERAILING TIME

Anyways, I was thinking that we should either have 6 disciplines, or 2.

If we have two; well...
Physical Discipline: Access to physical, offensive, defensive, dodge tags
Mental Discipline: Access to mental, ??? tags

Look good?

If there are two disciplines, there could be sub-disciplines. Also, I say we call it something other than discipline. That's just facepalming Tome of Battle.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 06:50 PM

Temotei

2010-05-28, 07:02 PM

I see. Well, then, how about Suites? Too card-y? Maybe...Pools?
Exactly what I was thinking. If there were two, you'd choose a Sub-Pool to specialize in(Int,Wis,Cha or Str,Dex,Con) and get mostly techniques associated with those pools.

Using two will let a character choose a primary statistic, two secondary statistics, and three tertiary...

Physical --> Strength - Primary
Dexterity - Secondary
Constitution - Secondary
Intelligence - Tertiary
Wisdom - Tertiary
Charisma - Tertiary

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 07:04 PM

Using two will let a character choose a primary statistic, two secondary statistics, and three tertiary...

Physical --> Strength - Primary
Dexterity - Secondary
Constitution - Secondary
Intelligence - Tertiary
Wisdom - Tertiary
Charisma - Tertiary

True. So:
Mental: Int, Wis or Cha as primary.
Wis or Cha secondary(gain other later as another secondary)
Str, Con or Dex as tertiary(1, then 2, then 3)
Likewise for Physical.

EDIT: And point values. Do you guys think the proposed system of
Manipulator Level(like Caster Level)*STAT MOD+X(from class) in primary.
3/4 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-1) in secondary
1/2 Manipulator Level*STAT MOD+(X-3?) in tertiary?

Also, I think that your Prism is stepping on my toes. Seeing as this idea has been brewing in my head for the LAST FOUR YEARS OR SO.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 07:37 PM

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 07:39 PM

...why bother? Using "you have six, pick one primary, then two secondary" you can make all of this without be constrained by artificial categories, unless I've missed something vital here (likely).

It does seem we're drifting away from the flow system I proposed, which is totally fine (and actually let's me steal it for personal use anyhow :smallbiggrin:).

What IS the current system, since it isn't super clear from where I'm sitting.

That sounds good. How about names for each stat's Pool?

Basically, I'm thinking that you get a pool of points to spend on Primary abilities, mixing in Secondary abilities or enhancements for more points.

I've also completely forgotten what your Flow system entails/ed.

My posting might be slow, I'm preparing a d20 Modern mission at the same time. Also conquering the world.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 07:43 PM

Ok, repost of the Flow System... again.

The idea is as follows: you have a pool of flow. You have flow points equal to a fairly complex formula (flow level x primary stat mod + your flow level + your secondary stat mods). When you gain flow for the first time (ie. take a level that gives you flow), you choose one of the six stats to be your primary track and two to be your secondary tracks, the other three becoming tertiary.

When you spend flow, you spend it on a 1:1 basis on the primary, a 3:1 basis on the secondaries, and a 5:1 basis on the tertiaries. You can also recoup flow from your expended pools at a 1:1 basis with the primary pool, a 2:1 basis on the secondary pools, and a 3:1 basis on the tertiary pools.

It sounds complex, and frankly might be too much for this project, since I've got no idea what precisely we're using at this point.

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 07:46 PM

Sounds good. I'm thinking, however, that we might not use the recoup mechanic you have. Maybe Con mod points replenished per hour?

Basically, the Flow system but without the recuperation mechanic.

arguskos

2010-05-28, 07:49 PM

Well, considering the system was designed to allow you to scavenge points on the fly (that's not the permanent recovery mechanic, it's a scavenging method), thus simulating a real life energy flow (such as heat transfer or something), cutting that would be fairly antithetical to the system. :smalltongue:

You do get all your points back after a good nights rest, just to keep up with the rest of the mechanics in the game.

Like I said, I'm not sure it's ideal for this. Perhaps a simpler mechanic would be better for your purposes?

PersonMan

2010-05-28, 07:52 PM

Temotei

2010-05-28, 11:18 PM

No, I think that the Flow system would work fairly well for this.

Now, we know what system we're using, we know how many points to give, and we know how we'll be splitting up the abilities.

So, should we do a write-up of what we have so far and start working on powers, or classes? Or something else entirely?

We should definitely finish the write-up before we get started on classes and "streams" of power or whatever (Rivers and streams run into bigger bodies of water--the point pool in this analogy.).

After that, we should get going on the actual powers, then the classes. Making the powers first, we can balance the classes based on their lists.

IcarusWings

2010-05-29, 02:53 AM

Do you guys mind if I nab the Flow System for my own purposes too?

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 07:21 AM

Merlin: PM Arguskos. He's the one who first came up with it.

Alright, then, so far we have:

Upon gaining your first level in an [ADJECTIVE] class, you choose one of your six ability scores(Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) as your primary (Channeling?) stat. Then choose two others to be your secondaries. The remaining three become your tertiaries. You gain Pool points equal to [(Channeler?) level x primary stat mod + your (Channeler?) level + your secondary stat mods]. So a level 1 (Channeler?) with a primary of 16, secondaries of 14 and 13 would gain [1*3+1+(1+2)=7] points. You always gain at least your new level in Pool points upon reaching a new level.

I left some "blanks" in where we should fill in what to call these classes. Channeling? Pouring? Any ideas?

Volthawk

2010-05-29, 08:21 AM

I quite like Channelling as a description for the classes. Maybe do Channeller as a base class name?

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 08:26 AM

I quite like Channelling as a description for the classes. Maybe do Channeller as a base class name?

Maybe. Origiinally I was planning seperate classes(Red Energy Adept, Blue EA, etc.) but I think that we can have a sort of Psion-like thing with a Channeler base class that just specializes. Alright; then.

Channeler; Channeling class; Channeler Level(CL); etc.

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 08:39 AM

Allright, so if I get this right each ability score has a certain role attached to it? You have one primary role to fill and two secondary ones, then the rest as 'don't bother'?

Oh, and as a suggestion for the ability scores:

Strength: Offensive Physical
Dexterity: 'Tactical' Physical
Constitution: Defensive Physical
Wisdom: Defensive Mental
Inteligence: 'Tactical' Mental
Charisma: Offensive Mental

Volthawk

2010-05-29, 08:41 AM

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 08:43 AM

Personally, I'd swap Intelligence and Charisma.

Hmmm, you're right. Was in the whole bard/marshall idea with charisma so I didn't think further, good one.

*fixes*

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 09:38 AM

Yes, basically. That list looks good for the...what should we call those? Suites? Streams?

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 09:42 AM

For naming, first think this through: You channel your powers through your mind or body to attain greater powers. Are these bursts of energy? Do they keep flowing? Do you attain those powers through breaking a physical or mental 'seal'?

Before you name something you need to think of what exactly something does. :smallbiggrin:

Volthawk

2010-05-29, 09:43 AM

Yes, basically. That list looks good for the...what should we call those? Suites? Streams?

Streams sound fine to me. Fits with the whole 'Channelling' thing too, I think.

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 09:49 AM

I concede, streams it is.

Could you keep the first post updated with changes you're going through and the current status of the project? It's a lot easier to track that way.

PS: I'd like some comments on my own Shadowcaster change, pretty much changes the system. I'm desperate for comments. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 09:50 AM

Sure. I'll do that now.

Done.

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 10:01 AM

You gain a number of Pool Points based on your channeler level, I'd like you to make this clear for me:

(Channeler level * primary Stat Bonus) + Secondary Stat Bonus + Secondary Stat Bonus + Channeler level.

OR

Channeler level * (primary Stat Bonus + Secondary Stat Bonus + Secondary Stat Bonus + Channeler level.)

Needs clarification from my part, though I assume the first. Can't you make the formulae simpler by only basing it on your primary stat? Also; how will the abilities he gains work? Will they be like essentia(MoI), Psionics(XPH), or what? Because before you know that you don't need to know how much points you need to give in there pool.

Also; Shadowcaster Change, please evaluate! *begs*

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 10:04 AM

True. We can look at that later.

I'm thinking that the powers will work sort of like Psionics, rather than what I know of Incarnum.

I haven't even read through the original Shadowcaster yet...But I'll take a look.

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 10:09 AM

So they work like psionics, but you want to give them a recovery mechanism as well, right? My suggestion is giving them a separate 'pool' which points are added to based on how many you use, so for example; you use a primary stream ability all points spent go to the recycling pool, a secondary half of the spent points, and a tertiary none.

Then you can think of a mechanic to let them recover all points in your recycling pool, for example; Automaticly at the end of the encounter, or a full-round action. Using a special ability or something of the sort.

Also, the Shadowcaster Change I made might give you some ideas. See Link in my Sig. :smallbiggrin: Shameless, I know.

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 10:11 AM

Interesting idea. Maybe you regain your Channeler Level+[Primary Stat modifier] per round of [some sort of recovery trance, or whatever]?

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 10:14 AM

Interesting idea. Maybe you regain your Channeler Level+[Primary Stat modifier] per round of [some sort of recovery trance, or whatever]?

That could work, but be careful with set ammounts during brainstorming, you might abandon certain ideas due to thinking it can't work due to X + Y = Z with Z being broken.

PersonMan

2010-05-29, 10:16 AM

True.

I'm going to be gone for a while, I'm not sure when I'll be back, but it might be several hours from now.

Ferrin

2010-05-29, 10:17 AM

True.

I'm going to be gone for a while, I'm not sure when I'll be back, but it might be several hours from now.

That's a shame, just when I got myself to make me understand what you wanted. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-05-30, 07:15 PM

Alright, I'm back. I may suddenly be gone for a day and a half as I have more DnD overnights with friends.

So, then, should we start working on powers?

Volthawk

2010-05-30, 07:30 PM

Alright, I'm back. I may suddenly be gone for a day and a half as I have more DnD overnights with friends.

So, then, should we start working on powers?

I suppose so. I only really have today now, since tomorrow I'm going on holiday!

I've got an idea for a power. I'll put it up once I'm done with it.

-----

Hey, how are we doing the points again? Are we doing like you just pay points, like Psionics, or do you direct some of your points to fuel each power, like Essentia?

EDIT: OK, from what I can see, it's basically just paying points. Fine by me.

--------

Are we going to have some way of 'augmenting', like psionics does? Maybe taking temporary stat drain/damage of whichever is relevant to that type of power?

EDIT: Going to show you what I mean in my example power.

Volthawk

2010-05-30, 07:52 PM

Now, I was thinking of doing a stat-damage -> more powerful ability thing, which I just though may as well be called Hypercharging for now. The idea I have is that you can take ability burn to make your powers stronger. Ideas? This power will hopefully show what I mean.
----------
Mindfire
Streams: Offensive, Mental
Descriptors: Fire
Flow Cost: 4
Action: Full-round

You use pure Energy to burn away at your target's mind, dealing Xd3 of either Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma damage with a ranged touch attack, where X is your Charisma modifier. You also add 1 to the damage per 5 Channeling levels.

Hypercharge: By taking 2 points of ability burn damage to Charisma, you can make the power affect another mental stat, as well as adding 2 points of extra ability damage. By taking 4 points of ability burn damage to Charisma, you can have the power affect all three mental stats, and add 5 points of extra damage.
----------
And another...

Repelling Fist
Streams: Physical, Offensive
Descriptors: Force
Flow Cost: 2
Action: Standard Action

When you activate this power, you make a single melee touch attack, ignoring miss chances from being incorporeal. If it hits, roll damage as usual. The target is pushed backwards that far in feet, rounding up, and the target takes no damage. After this, the target falls prone.

Hypercharge: By burning 1 point of strength, the Channeler can force the target to go back 1.5 times as far as normal, or also deal the normal damage in the form of non-lethal damage. By spending 2 points, the Channeller can force the target to go back 3 times as far as normal, or make the target take half the normal damage as non-lethal, and half as force damage.
----------
So, yeah. That's my idea of how to do it. Thoughts?

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 12:57 AM

Wait, wait ,wait! :smalleek:

Before creating specific powers you should think of the system. How do they learn them, how much do they cost, how many levels are there, what can we do to create synergy between the primary, secondary, and tertiary stats?

Volthawk: Hmm, I don't like ability burn for a SoD spell/power, or just a regular buff. Your idea could be implemented as a class feature, or as a feat system similiar to how metamagic works. But not as a basic augment cost.

I was thinking about this project during my night shift(just got back) and I had a few ideas, so... here goes.

Powers should cost 4 Flow per level of the power, which is reduced by twice the level of the power for your Primary stats' powers, reduced by 1 per level of the power for secondary powers, and the regular cost(4) for tertiary powers. When this is implemented with the Recycling Pool system I posted earlier your Primary powers give a 50% refund, your secondary powers a 33% refund and your tertiary powers a 25% refund.

Level 1 Primary powers cost 2 flow, level 2 cost 4 flow, level 3 cost 6 flow etc. Level 1 Secondary powers cost 3 flow, level 2 cost 6 flow, level 3 cost 9 flow etc. Level 1 Tertiary powers cost 4 flow, level 2 cost 8 flow, level 3 cost 12 flow etc.

As for learning powers...

You can learn any power which you can channel, you can channel a number of Flow equal to your Channeler level + 1. This means that you can't start play with any of your secondary stats' powers. Also; make it so half of your non-channeler class levels are added to your Channeler level, similiar to initiator levels.

Volthawk

2010-05-31, 02:54 AM

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 03:11 AM

I was just doing them to show the kinda ideas I had. Seeing what people thought.

As for your ideas, I like them, actually. Makes choosing your primary and secondaries more important, as it affects how well you can use your powers. The half-channeling level thing sounds fine as well.

Maybe you could spend more flow than needed on a power to make it a bit more powerful? Maybe like metamagic?

Ah, I skimmed your post so I missed that part. Sorry!

Thanks, now we just need the chief to agree with us. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, a question to your question: How would spending more Flow interact with the recharge system? Is the flow spent lost, or do you get a certain % back? Or can you only use those feats/class features for your primary stat?

I don't like the terms Primary Stat, Secondary Stat, and Tertiary Stat. I propose naming them as follows: Prime and Intermediate. I suggest not naming the tertiary stat, seeing as you don't need to choose it and it has no meaning outside of the development.

Volthawk

2010-05-31, 03:16 AM

Ah, I skimmed your post so I missed that part. Sorry!

Thanks, now we just need the chief to agree with us. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm, a question to your question: How would spending more Flow interact with the recharge system? Is the flow spent lost, or do you get a certain % back? Or can you only use those feats/class features for your primary stat?

I don't like the terms Primary Stat, Secondary Stat, and Tertiary Stat. I propose naming them as follows: Prime and Intermediate. I suggest not naming the tertiary stat, seeing as you don't need to choose it and it has no meaning outside of the development.

Hmm. Dunno. Primary stat-only sounds alright. I'd say it still gets partly refunded.

As for the Primary/Secondary->Prime/Intermediate thing, sounds fine to me.

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 03:26 AM

Hmm. Dunno. Primary stat-only sounds alright. I'd say it still gets partly refunded.

As for the Primary/Secondary->Prime/Intermediate thing, sounds fine to me.

I want PersonMan online! :smallbiggrin:

I mentioned the 'Prime only' so you can easily return all spent flow from your metachannel feats/abilities to your recycling pool(name suggestion?) on a 2 to 1 basis, same as spending flow on your Prime powers.

And another thing on learning powers: No one would take anything other then the Prime powers, there needs to be some kind of compensation for choosing them, like 2 intermediate powers if you give up 1 prime power for example. Alternatively you could just let them learn powers of the specific categories only at certain levels, forcing you to spread out.

Oh, and I'm going to sleep now if you don't mind. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-05-31, 08:28 AM

Well, at least something happened while I was gone.

I might not be here on Tuesday and/or part of Wednesday, again. Summer means lots more DnD, so...

Names: Sure, go ahead
Cost: Looks good to me

About Powers, I think that we should just give a list of Powers Known, and divide them into Prime/Intermediate Powers to get.

So, say, at level 3 you might get 4 Prime Powers and 2 Intermediate Powers.

However, at the same time I think that we shouldn't force people to take Intermediate Powers. Specialists should be possible with this system. I think that we'll have a generic Channeler class with the option to be a Specialist or a Generalist.

Recycling Pool name: Maybe 'Backflow', or 'Backdraw' or something?

Volthawk

2010-05-31, 08:54 AM

Maybe for specialising, you could say that two Intermediate Powers can be traded off for one Prime? That is, if we are working off separate amounts of powers known for Prime and Intermediate Powers.

IcarusWings

2010-05-31, 09:03 AM

How do you get tertiary powers then?

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 10:55 AM

I like the name backflow for some reason.

And yes, I understand your point about learning powers, we should think about that now. I'd suggest some kind of point system, with prime powers costing more as intermediate powers, and intermediate powers costing more then tertiary ones. Will give you a choice between versatility or power. You can also look at it like this; less powers known for more powers/day or more powers known for less powers/day. First level you can get intermediate powers is 2nd, as I explained earlier. Tertiary powers can be chosen as early as level 3.

You could have Prime powers cost 4, Intermediate ones 2, and tertiary ones 1. You could give 4-6 'research points' per level. This will let people specialize while still keeping the choices open. People won't only choose intermediate and tertiary powers because of the cost to channel them but it will give them more options.

Oh, and it would be nice if you could update the main post again. :smallbiggrin:

IcarusWings

2010-05-31, 11:27 AM

You could have Prime powers cost 4, Intermediate ones 2, and tertiary ones 1.

Do you not mean Prime 1, Intermediate 2 and tertiary 4?

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 12:30 PM

Do you not mean Prime 1, Intermediate 2 and tertiary 4?

No, who would take intermediate or tertiary powers then? :smallconfused:

Though on second thought Prime powers should cost 3, not 4.

Volthawk

2010-05-31, 12:31 PM

No, who would take intermediate or tertiary powers then? :smallconfused:

Though on second thought Prime powers should cost 3, not 4.

So it's harder to learn the type of powers you specialise in? :smallconfused:

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 01:04 PM

So it's harder to learn the type of powers you specialise in? :smallconfused:

No, it's harder to master powers. Prime powers would indicate the primary focus of the character, which, in return for the lower cost(aka, better control) take more study. :smallbiggrin:

Honestly though it was more of a balance issue that occured in my thought-process while thinking of the cost of powers. Making them all equal in cost would work as well, but think how much powers cost.

A level 1 power gives 1 backflow, a Prime power costs 2 flow. So it effectively costs only 1 Flow after you get your flow back. Intermediate powers cost 3 flow and still only return 1, so it actualy costs twice as much as your Prime powers. Tertiary powers are even worse, effectively costing three times as much as a Prime power.

IcarusWings

2010-05-31, 01:16 PM

No, who would take intermediate or tertiary powers then? :smallconfused:

Though on second thought Prime powers should cost 3, not 4.

Isn't the whole point that it's easier and more efficient to use your primary ones, but you use the others for versatility?

For example... Jim is a channeler whose primary is strength and one of his intermediates is wisdom and one of his tertiaries is constitution. Now, he can use his Strength power, Falcon Punch, by spending one Flow Point, he can use his Wisdom power, Heal, by spending two (because it's his intermediate), and he can use his Constitution power, invulnerability, by spending four.
So Jim is in a fight, and he spends a lot of flow points on a lot of Falcon Punches. This is very efficient as it is on a 1:1 basis. However, Jim's friend, Tim, is injured and will die if not healed. So Jim casts Heal on Tim; whilst this is not as efficient as just Falcon Punching people (as this is on a 2:1 basis) it is still needed and Jim should still cast it, despite it using up more Flow points. Then, a goblin ultra-wizard dude calls down a meteor storm, this is very powerful and it would kill Jim; so he spends four Flow points to activate Invulnerability, despite this being even less efficient.

Basically, the point I see of the Flow system isn't that your Prime powers are stronger, and should cost more to compensate. It's that you specialise in the Prime precisely for the reason of making it cost less, but you still have your intermediate and tertiary powers to stop you being a one-trick pony, even if they are less efficient, they are still needed.
You shouldn't attempt to make players take intermediate powers by making them cost less. Heck, you shouldn't make players take intermediate powers full stop. If they want to specialise in something they can, but they pay for it with less versatility. It would be like saying a wizard has to learn spells from all schools, even if they just want to be a necromancer.Merlin

EDIT: ninja'ed and now I see your point. I thought you were talking about how much they should cost, not how much Backflow they gave. Sorry, I'll return to my corner and be quiet :smallbiggrin:

Ferrin

2010-05-31, 01:25 PM

Eh, I was talking about the 'research point' cost in the post you quoted. :smallwink:

Edit: And I'm off to work, good luck with this guys! :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-05-31, 04:31 PM

Ferrin

2010-06-01, 01:29 AM

I go swimming and you guys do all this.

Anyways, it's looking pretty good. I'll edit the OP again.

Maybe different classes, like the Wiz/Sorcerer? One gets more research, one gets two smaller pools, one normal and one Prime-only?

I added a way to recover the Backflow pool. Look good?

I actualy thought it would be nice to have a Physical only, Mental only, and one normal one. Still works with what you're thinking though... Hmmm, Mental one gets more Research Points, Physical one less RP's but some extra class features.

Oh, and backflow is added equal to the power's level, not 1/2, 2/3, 1/1. It's easier to keep track of, and it's part of the reason why Intermediate and tertiary powers cost more. (Btw, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 is how it works(50%, 33%, 25%))

Had night shift again. The smell of bread gives me ideas! :smallbiggrin:

Backflow should be recovered every round, Prime Stream modifier/round up to a maximum of ½ your channeler level(Rounded Up) per round. This works better with the backflow change I suggest below. It also allows you to use unlimited 'cantrips'(detailed below).

Powers shouldn't add to the backflow pool directly, instead it's added when the duration of a power ends(with instantaneous powers they will be added instantly). Default/feat/class feature should give you the ability to cancel any ongoing power you have used. This will make long duration buffs more of a choice, depending on your play-style. It also makes more sense, since the energy spent is still flowing in the target/area.

There should be some 'cantrip'-like powers, I suggest they all cost 1 Flow and have 1 backflow, allways useable. Some buffs should be available in it, for skill point bonuses for example, and last for 24 hours. You give up 1 flow for a buff for the day with those. These shouldn't be to powerfull as they can be used at will. These should allways cost 1 RP.

Oh, and there should totally be a non-gimped Graft Weapon(XPH) power, I love the flavor.

I really like this project, keep on posting everyone! :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-06-01, 07:04 AM

Ferrin

2010-06-01, 07:31 AM

I'm still not getting the way the backflow amounts work, could you explain that?

Yeah, several classes would probably get 'Energy Weapon' powers, to create weapons from their Energy, and some could probably even directly fuse parts of their bodies with their weapons.

Allright, here goes:

Prime Power Flow Cost: 2 per power level.
Intermediate Power Flow Cost: 3 per power level.
Tertiary Power Flow Cost: 4 per power level.

Backflow: 1 per power level.

PersonMan

2010-06-01, 07:37 AM

Aha. Now, that makes sense.

Ferrin

2010-06-01, 07:45 AM

Aha. Now, that makes sense.

I know, right? :smalltongue:

Think we could start choosing which kind of powers belong to each stream? Seeing as we have the basic chassis for the system now.

PersonMan

2010-06-01, 07:58 AM

Right.

Arrgh, my feet hurt. I was swimming yesterday and my entire front feet and toes are raw now...

Aaand I have to go for a while. I'll be back as soon as I can be.

Ferrin

2010-06-01, 08:01 AM

Right.

Arrgh, my feet hurt. I was swimming yesterday and my entire front feet and toes are raw now...

Aaand I have to go for a while. I'll be back as soon as I can be.

Ah allright, good luck. I'll, uhm, wait. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-06-02, 10:22 AM

Alright, how about a basic block for each Power?

Maybe:

Power Name[power type;mental,offensive,etc.]
Level: X
Energy Point Cost:
Target:
Range:
Effect:
Duration:

Fluff.

Description

Charging: For each additional X points you spend on [power name], [effect].

?

Ferrin

2010-06-03, 10:44 AM

I don't think you should have the 'augment' cost flow, how are you going to make that work well with Backflow? Though I'm kind of tired now, so I can't think of another system quite as fast.

And no, I didn't think of anything while at work this time, was thinking of my upcoming d&d session. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-06-03, 11:56 AM

Hmm. Maybe we should have Charging a Power cost Backflow instead of normal Energy. Interesting idea.

Ferrin

2010-06-04, 02:18 PM

Hmm. Maybe we should have Charging a Power cost Backflow instead of normal Energy. Interesting idea.

No, never ever do that. Bad design. :smalleek:

What you just proposed was the total annihilation of a quick battle if you can't use your powers to the fullest from the start.

But to augment powers, hmmm... You know, you don't need to be able to augment them, just let them scale by level.

Augmenting/charging can be done by 'metachannel' feats, I suggest that you gain 1 backflow for every 2 flow you spend on a 'metachannel' feat.

PersonMan

2010-06-04, 02:34 PM

Hmm. I see.

Sure, that sounds good to me. How much should we raise the costs, though? 1 per +1d6 for damage, 2 for +1 DC for saves....?

Siosilvar

2010-06-04, 03:44 PM

No, never ever do that. Bad design. :smalleek:

What you just proposed was the total annihilation of a quick battle if you can't use your powers to the fullest from the start.

Popping in to say: wait, what? :smallconfused:

"Quick battle" does not mean "rocket tag".

If I'm understanding the system at all, you have points. When you spend 2X points on a power, X points go into a pool of sorts for you to regenerate slowly, and the other X points come back later (per day?).

Spending the pool to boost your powers lets you have a sort of "power charging" mechanic, where you get "broken in" to the fight and you get a sort of feedback loop, where using things lets you make those things stronger until you burn out.

You go nova, but you have to charge up to that point.

That's really what I think of when I hear things about "energy" and "pools" and whatnot. Your mileage may vary.

EDIT: Though that would really just delay rocket tag. Limits on augmentation via backchanneling (maybe even make it a feat series?) are necessary, with some sort of penalty for overchanneling.

PersonMan

2010-06-04, 03:51 PM

Maybe you can only spend a certain amount of points per power?

OR you can spend more than X points, but you need to make a Will save or have more energy "sucked" into the power and potentially end up rather drained.

Maybe for every Y points over X you go, you make a Will save at DC (15?20?)+Y or lose (1d4?1d6?Y?) more points into the power?

Ferrin

2010-06-05, 03:52 AM

With quick battle I mean having your options open from the start, as with every other class. It's more of a balance issue. And you can't nova if you have to spend several rounds charging up. :smallbiggrin:

But I thought about it with a clear mind, and it does work. But it requires the backflow change I suggested earlier: Backflow is added when a powers' duration ends, for a 'fireball' it owuld be right away, but for buffs it would be at the end of the duration. You could make buffs that you discharge. You can easily get backflow that way at the start of a combat.

So allright, Backflow to augment is pretty sweet when you think about it. Good thing I'm not the one designing the system! :smallbiggrin:

We need to figure out how the backflow augment will work for all levels of powers.

If you would just say that you can't spend more flow and backflow on a power then your channeler level + 1 it would mean that the lowest powers cost a tremendous ammount of backflow while the higher ones would still give more backflow then you can spend.

If it said that you can't augment for more then ½ channeler level(rounded up) it would make lower powers obsolete due to the higher powers being far more effective, both action and power-wise.

Other options include letting the powers scale by level like spells and having backflow augments only give more versatility to a power, like increasng targets or radius, or some other effects like casting as a swift action or move action.

PersonMan

2010-06-05, 09:06 AM

Looks good. However, I'm still not sure about the numbers themselves. I'm thinking that maybe there can be a base effect/Charging(totally unlike, 100% different than "Augmentation" :smalltongue:) and you can take MetaPower feats to allow for new stuff. For example:

Widen Power
FLUFF YEAH
Benefit: For any Power you Channel, you can spend an additional X points to double its Area of Effect(single target spells have an AoE of one square). Remember the x2/x3/x4 rule(two uses of this feat on a 5' AoE Power result in a 15' AoE, not a 20' AoE), and for each doubling, add X to the cost to double again.
Normal: You can't do that. So uncool.

Siosilvar

2010-06-05, 01:56 PM

With quick battle I mean having your options open from the start, as with every other class. It's more of a balance issue. And you can't nova if you have to spend several rounds charging up. :smallbiggrin:

Alright, then it's more of IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZER.

And having more backflow available than you can spend is potentially a good thing; there should be some way to recharge your initial pool, aside from going into sleep mode.

Although being able to spend it all does give you options. Do I dump all of my energy into this one attack, at the risk of not being able to do ANYTHING later, or do I let some of my energy recharge?

Backflow should definitely NOT be used to initiate powers in the first place. Not that anyone suggested that, but a word of caution. Letting backflow take the majority of energy costs to use a power either a) reduces the options available at the start (like Ferrin says) or b) reduces the tension of low flow pool with high backflow (can't use anything, but if I could it'd be SO EPIC).

Set

2010-06-05, 06:53 PM

Red: Offensive, damage-dealing.
Blue: Defensive, healing.
Grey: Neutralizing of other disciplines.

Other associations that might fit;

Red: releasing energy into the world, destructive power, in a stereotypical setting could be considered 'male' or bright / hot / active Yang energy
Blue: absorbing energy non-destructively, infusing energy non-destructively into another person (as a 'buff'), could be associated with 'female' or cold / dark / reactive Yin energy
Grey: altering energy (or matter), tinkering with stuff, divination effects, knowing and understanding and changing things, in a Yin/Yang system, could be considered the line between them, or to represent formless transcendent spirit, instead of a material gender

The correlation between White Wolf's Wyrm (destruction), Wyld (creation) and Weaver (shaper/architect) or the Hindu Trimurti of Brahma (creator), Vishnu (preserver/architect) and Shiva (destroyer) seems cool.

PersonMan

2010-06-05, 06:56 PM

Alright, then IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZER

...I agree with the post, especially the 'spend all energy on super-attack' thing.

Also, can I sig this?

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 12:57 AM

...I agree with the post, especially the 'spend all energy on super-attack' thing.

Also, can I sig this?

Any ideas on how to make the "I'MA POWERING MA LAZERS!!!1" work? Besides the easy way out, which is just saying that you don't need to regenerate your backflow if you dont want to. :smallbiggrin:

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 06:22 AM

Any ideas on how to make the "I'MA POWERING MA LAZERS!!!1" work? Besides the easy way out, which is just saying that you don't need to regenerate your backflow if you dont want to. :smallbiggrin:

I just assumed that you regenerate backflow when you rest or when you do a one-minute ritual, and you can just not do that if you can to keep your Backflow.

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 06:49 AM

I just assumed that you regenerate backflow when you rest or when you do a one-minute ritual, and you can just not do that if you can to keep your Backflow.

Ah allright, thought it was the regenerate/round. Which would be quite a bit better to be honest, I'll explain:

Encounter 1: Spend 60/100 Flow, 1 minute rest gain 30 flow.
Encounter 2: Spend 60/70 Flow, 1 minute rest gain 30 flow.
Encounter 3: Spend 40/40 Flow, 1 minute rest gain 20 flow.
Encounter 4: Spend 20/20 Flow, 1 minute rest gain 10 flow.
Encounter 5: Spend 10/10 Flow, 1 minute rest gain 5 flow.
(Numbers should be assumed to be higher)
This is assuming you only use prime powers, and no more then 60% of your total. This would give the raw equivelant to 215 power points. A level 9 channel power would cost 18 power, as such you could only use it a maximum of five times before you need to rest 1 minute if you blow everything. Hmmm, I'd like to see some example powers of how you envision it, because this might actualy work. Though instead of needing one minute for everything, how about Channeler level + Primary stat mod/round?

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 07:01 AM

Hmmm...Maybe you can make a DC X(20?) Concentration check to regain your Channeler level+Primary stat mod Backflow in a round as a move action, and out-of-combat you can Full Recover, bringing in as much or as little Backflow as you want...

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 09:21 AM

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 09:28 AM

Alright, then. Do we have any more mechanics to smooth out or should we start looking at Power lists?

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 09:35 AM

Alright, then. Do we have any more mechanics to smooth out or should we start looking at Power lists?

I think you can start working on the power list now and see what happens from there. I have a few night shifts and an upcoming game ahead of me so I cba to think much at the time. Sorry! :smallfrown:

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 09:40 AM

I see...Oh well, don't worry about it much.

Besides, you're 6 hours ahead of me, so we should still be able to continue this even if it doesn't go that fast...

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 09:50 AM

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 09:54 AM

Blast, Basic[Offensive]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: One creature or object
Range: Close (25 ft+ 5 ft/2 levels)
Effect: One missile of energy
Duration: Instantaneous

You gather the energy within you, letting it flow into a bolt of power, and you send it flying, powering through the target with a flash of light.

You must hit the target with a ranged touch attack, if you hit they take 1d6 points of Energy damage.

Charging: For each additional 2 points you spend on Basic Blast, it deals 1d6 more damage. For 3 energy points you can make it deal a specific energy type of damage(such as cold, or acid).

Charging should cost 1 point per die, energy type should be incorporated in the power itself(Specific or choice). Think about it; what makes this ability work? It deals damage! If you can't use it effectively to deal damage it's not worth using, it costs to much.

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 10:20 AM

Alright, I wasn't sure about the amount per die...

Ok, then, what other Powers to make...

Ferrin

2010-06-07, 10:32 AM

Alright, I wasn't sure about the amount per die...

Ok, then, what other Powers to make...

Start with the basics, something that defines the entire stream while not giving to much versatility.

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 10:36 AM

Shield, Basic[Defensive]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: One willing creature
Range: Touch
Effect: Second "skin" of energy
Duration: 1 minute per Channeler Level

As you concentrate, you bring your energy to the surface of your being, coating yourself in an invisible layer of energy which can deflect attacks.

You create an "Energy Skin" which gives several benefits. You gain a +2 Energy bonus to AC, and DR 1/-.

Charging: For each additional point you spend, the AC bonus increases by 1, to a maximum of [Channeler level+2]. For every two points you pay for this Power, the DR increases by 1.

Body Control[Physical]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See description
Duration: 1 round per Channeler Level

You pull your energy into your muscles and tendons, strengthening your body.

This Power gives you a +2 Insight bonus to either Strength, Dexterity or Constitution.

Charging: For each additional 2 points you spend on this Power, the bonus increases by +2, to a maximum of +8(?). For X additional Energy Points, you can increase the duration for X rounds, to a maximum of 2xChanneler level total rounds of duration.

Mind Alteration[Mental]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See description
Duration: 1 round per Channeler level

You send waves of energy deep into your body, and you strengthen your personality and clear your senses with a rush of power.

You gain a +2 Insight bonus to either Intelligence, Wisdom or Charisma.

Charging: For each additional 2 points you spend on this Power, the bonus increases by +2, to a maximum of +8(?). In addition, you may pay one extra Energy Point to increase the duration by one round, up to a maximum of Channeler levelx2 total rounds.

PersonMan

2010-06-07, 11:16 AM

Ferrin

2010-06-08, 01:35 AM

Basics are up. Do they look good? I wanted to limit them, but I wasn't sure to what degree to do so.

Anyways, I think that Energy abilities and the like should give Energy bonuses or penalties, sound good?

Change the basic shield to give DR x/- instead of x/magic.

You should stick with existing bonuses. "Energy bonus" might as well be enhancement or deflection from a flavor point. I'd change Body Control and Mind Alteration to give an insight bonus.

PersonMan

2010-06-08, 06:33 AM

Hmm. Makes sense. Changing.

Volthawk

2010-06-08, 10:04 AM

Wow, a lot progress while I was on holiday. OK, I'll do updates of the two I made earlier in a bit. Also, maybe have a post (maybe OP) where you log all the powers made? I'll do it if you don't feel like it.

PersonMan

2010-06-08, 10:18 AM

Yeah...

I'll do that.

...Nevermind. I can't get the formatting to work. Help?

Volthawk

2010-06-08, 11:06 AM

Yeah...

I'll do that.

...Nevermind. I can't get the formatting to work. Help?

Here you go:

Blast, Basic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645638&postcount=145)

Shield, Basic; Body Control; Mind Alteration (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8645955&postcount=149])

PersonMan

2010-06-08, 07:50 PM

Thanks. Editing OP now.

PersonMan

2010-06-10, 02:29 AM

Mind Surge[Defensive, Mental]
Level: 2
Energy Point Cost: 4/6/8
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See description
Duration: Instantaneous or until discharged; see description

You send a burst of energy through your mind, burning out outsiders.

If being affected by an ongoing mental affect(such as Dominate Person) you may make a new save with a +3 Insight bonus. If not under such an effect, you gain a +3 Insight bonus to your next Will save within 24 hours.

Charging: For each additional point you spend on Mind Surge the Insight bonus increases by 1, up to a maximum of 3+Channeler level.

----

Burst, Basic[Offensive]
Level: 2
Energy Point Cost: 4/6/8
Target: One 10-foot cube
Range: Close (25 ft+5ft/2 Channeler levels)
Effect: See description
Duration: Instantaneous

You send a burst of energy flying from your outstretched palm, and it explodes into a blast of light for a split second, scorching the air with power.

You create a blast of energy that detonates in a 10 ft area, centered on any point within range. The blast deals 2d8 points of untyped damage, with a Reflex save for half. The DC is 12+Primary Channeling stat

Charging: For each additional 2 points you spend on Basic Burst, the damage increases by 1d8 and the Reflex save DC increases by 1. For one additional point you can specify a specific energy type.

Siosilvar

2010-06-10, 05:50 PM

...I agree with the post, especially the 'spend all energy on super-attack' thing.

Also, can I sig this?

Go right ahead.

I like Iron Heart Mind Surge.

imp_fireball

2010-06-10, 06:20 PM

This is a pretty neat idea if you want a pure evocator or martial gish (a martial gish would probably duplicate DBZ as a matter of fact with maneuvers and an 'energy pool'; someone like Goku would obviously be a very high epic level gish).

One thing with energy I'd rule is that most powers require line of effect and/or line of sight. In DBZ, you could blow up a planet but you had to have line of sight with it! You could destroy the galaxy, but you had to be within that galaxy. All of that would be 'epic level' energy. An alternative to being able to do this could be high level energy powers (8th or 9th level) with a very very large XP cost, (energy cost would be regular) to the point that it's pretty much epic level.
----

Here's a short ruling to having energy that you could adopt.

Your energy pool is equal to your CON score + Channeling level. You recover energy at a rate equal to your CON modifier per round (minimum 1). Recovery begins on rounds that you don't channel and ends on rounds that you do.

If you go beyond your energy pool, then you take CON damage (or 1d4 CON damage) equal to negative your energy pool/divided by X. Your energy pool shifts back to 0 on rounds of recovery.

Some creatures, such as those without CON scores, use another ability score to supplement their energy pool.
----

I apologize if I missed details on this thread. I haven't the time to read everything.

PersonMan

2010-06-10, 06:57 PM

@^ Interesting idea, but at this point the system is that you choose a primary score and...well, I edit the OP fairly frequently, so you can just read that and jump right in.

imp_fireball

2010-06-10, 07:24 PM

Is your objective to have a channeler be able to fulfill many roles like a character in DBZ?

If so, the primary score could be the recovery stat.

Also, meditation sounds like a good idea (in DBZ they'd often spend time 'powering up'). Maybe some powers allow shape shifting into 'more powerful forms' that result in energy drain per round rather then energy recovery?

PersonMan

2010-06-10, 08:05 PM

Volthawk

2010-06-11, 01:03 AM

Yes, sort of. DBZ was one of the larger influences in the idea, which formed into what I call the Energyk Universe.

There will be lots of powers to come, and I am planning on some that continuosly cost energy but give large bonuses. However, I'm only one guy and I'll be moving soon, so help is appreciated.

Alright then. I'll make some as well, OK?

Body Conversion [physical]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See text
Duration: 1 round/channeller level

Your body changes, becoming stronger, swifter or more resilient at a cost.

You can reduce any of your physical stats by a maximum of 2 points, and increase another by that amount. The contributing points do not need to come from the same stat, and the points do not need to be added to the same stat.

Charging: For each additional 1 point you spend on Body Conversion, the maximum amount of stat points you can move around increases by 1, up to 1+Channeler Level.

PersonMan

2010-06-12, 06:21 PM

Looks good to me.

I've had an exhausting day today. Tomorrow I'll put together a power I have an idea for.

Volthawk

2010-06-12, 06:45 PM

OK, the mental version of my earlier power.

Mental Conversion [mental]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See text
Duration: 1 round/channeller level

Your mind changes, becoming smarter, wiser or more forceful at a cost.

You can reduce any of your mental stats by a maximum of 2 points, and increase another by that amount. The contributing points do not need to come from the same stat, and the points do not need to be added to the same stat.

Charging: For each additional 1 point you spend on Mental Conversion, the maximum amount of stat points you can move around increases by 1, up to 1+Channeler Level.

PersonMan

2010-06-12, 07:22 PM

Speed Burst [physical]
Level: 3
Energy Point Cost: 6/9/12
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See text
Duration: Instantaneous

You force a burst of energy through your body, and you move too fast for the eye to see, appearing elsewhere.

You can make up to 60 ft of movement as a standard action using this power. To those who watch you, you simply disappear in one place and appear in another. After this movement you may make a single attack against an adjacent enemy, who is flat-footed against you. However, if a creature has seen the ability used before and the attack made, they can make a DC 20 Intelligence check to determine in what general area(30 ft radius area, -5 ft for every 2 over the DC), or make a DC 10 Intelligence check to recognize the danger and prepare for a sudden attack, making them not flat-footed if you attack them after the move.

You can use this to jump up to 60 ft, as you are moving incredibly fast. However, you end your move with little to no momentum, and begin to fall unless you can fly or otherwise arrest your fall.

Charging: For every additional 2 points you spend on this power, you move another (10?) feet.

I'm not sure about the distance on this one.

-----

Speed Clones [physical]
Level: 4
Energy Point Cost: 8/12/16
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: Several "speed clones"; see text
Duration: 1 round/Channeler level

You send an unimaginable blast of power through your body, displacing so much energy and light that several more of you flicker into view, ready to fight.

When you use this power, you create a number of Speed Clones equal to one of your secondary Channeling modifier(?). Speed Clones act on your initiative order directly after you and follow your mental commands. Any attacks they make(they cannot cast spells, manifest powers or use any other such ability) deal only 1d4+(your Strength modifier) points of damage, no matter the weapon they use. These Speed Clones are destroyed, flickering out of existence, if they take any damage whatsoever.

Charging: For every additional X points you spend on this power, your Speed clones' damage goes up one die size(d6, d8, etc).

I'm really not sure about this one.

Lix Lorn

2010-06-16, 06:00 AM

...this is really cool. I don't have anything to contribute (yet...), but I wanted to post so I get a subscription.

ryleah

2010-06-16, 05:11 PM

I had an idea of what you wanted from pages 1-3 and then got completely lost on 4,5&6, so I'm just going to go with my opinion on how it could work using the color system.

Flight
(the name of the ability, duh :smalltongue:)
(3/yellow)
(Cost for initial power and color of power points)
You gain 15' fly speed and average manuverability
(unaugmented ability)
Blue-increase speed by 5' per blue point expended on this ability
Green- increase fly maneuverability by one stage per green point expended on this ability
Red-gain the use of one flight feat per 3 red points expended on this ability
(augmentation based on color points that thematically match the augmentation)

you get a number of ability points equal to level*relative ability modifier(or scaling)
you prepare colored points at the beginning of the day, with a maximum number of points per color equal to the ability modifier tied to the color with a bonus for primary and secondary colors chosen

IE Yellow dex based gets 3*dex mod max yellow points per day
red and green secondary gets 2*red mod max points per day
blue white and black gets max equal to relevant mod

Abilities last until dispelled

ryleah

2010-06-16, 05:29 PM

Additional Ideas
releasing powers regains you the invested points

manifesting abilities is a full round action, but you can shift power points around as a swift action

the initial cost of the ability is equal to the spell level, with abilitys known equal to spells known as a sorcerer of that level.

more to come

PersonMan

2010-06-16, 05:39 PM

Energy Sight [Physical]
Level: 1
Energy Point Cost: 2/3/4
Target: You
Range: Personal
Effect: See description
Duration: Concentration

You cover your eyes with power, and use it to see sources of energy around you.

You see any individuals that have Energy Points if they are within 100' of you, even if they are behind cover or invisible. If the Speed Burst power is used by a creature you see using this power, you gain a +3 bonus to the Intelligence checks made to determine the area of the arrival and the danger of attack.

Individuals with Channeller Levels lower than you detect as Low Power, those with your level detect as Medium Power, and those above you detect as High Power.

Charging: For every additional 2 points you spend on this power, the range of your sight increases by 10', to a maximum of 180 feet.

Volthawk

2010-06-17, 03:40 PM

OK, here's links for the rest of the powers made:

Mind Surge and Basic Burst (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8668786&postcount=157)

Body Conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8676513&postcount=163)

Mental Conversion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8688451&postcount=165)

Speed Burst and Speed Clones (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8688735&postcount=166)

Energy Sight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8718595&postcount=170)

PersonMan

2010-06-17, 04:13 PM

Thanks.

Editing OP now.

PersonMan

2010-07-26, 03:18 PM

I've PMed Roland about reviving this thread, and he's given his OK, so I'm going to be posting the new material I've come up with for this project so far:

Energy Bolt[Offensive]
Level: 0
Energy Point Cost: 1/2/3
Target: One creature or object
Range: Close (25 ft+5 ft/2 levels)
Effect: One bolt of energy
Duration: Instantaneous

You send a flicker of power through your body, directing it at the chosen target and letting if fly.

A small disk of energy flies from your hand. You make a ranged touch attack against the chosen target, and if you hit they take 1d4+Channeler Level damage.

Charging: For each additional point you spend on Energy Bolt, it deals one additional damage die.

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Energy Bolt Barrage[Offensive]
Level: 3
Energy Cost: 6/8/10+X(See description)
Target: You
Effect: Shoot barrages of Energy Bolts
Range: Close (25 ft+5 ft/2 levels)
Duration: 1 round/Channeler level

You fill yourself with a small reserve of energy, quickly drawing on it to send bursts of Energy Bolts at your enemies while you prepare your next move.

When you activate this Power, you set aside a number of points for use in a temporary Energy Pool. As a move action, you can use Energy Points from this pool to send up to [Channeler level] Energy Bolts at an enemy as a move action.

Charging: N/A

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I'm also thinking of putting together a Channeler base class. Should I post it on this thread, or make a separate one for it?

Volthawk

2010-07-26, 03:19 PM

I'm also thinking of putting together a Channeler base class. Should I post it on this thread, or make a separate one for it?

I think a different one, personally.

imp_fireball

2010-07-26, 03:47 PM

I'm also thinking of putting together a Channeler base class. Should I post it on this thread, or make a separate one for it?

Go ahead. But how about making a small PrC that combines channeling and maneuvers together too (and the ability to sense ECL and channeling level, as well as hide about their own ECL and channeling level from detection or feed false information with a concentration check)? That would supplement the DBZ aspect quite a bit.

Charging: For every additional 2 points you spend on this power, you move another (10?) feet.

For speed burst, I'm thinking you could increase it to a swift or free action if you spend at least 10 points on charging the ability (at your option), but you don't receive the speed increase for doing so?

Also, make it a move action initially. That way, you can speed burst and then attack someone. Finally, make it require a line of effect (since you can't move through walls unless your traversing the planes or 0th dimension or whatever); or you could say that it is just like moving, except that it ignores obstacles and difficult terrain but not boundaries (walls and such). You can also speed burst into the air or onto much higher surfaces without a jump check (but you'll begin falling from there obviously). Better then dimension door, but meh.

Characters in DBZ seem to disappear and reappear very quickly.
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Blasting Wave[Offensive]
Level: 5
Energy Cost: 10/12/14
Target: 5ft. wide line
Effect: Emit line shaped wave of raw force and fire
Range: Long (300 ft+25 ft/level)
Duration: See Text

You draw energy from yourself, focusing it into a point and then releasing it all in one direction.

Activating this power is a 1 round action and can be released on your next turn. However, as long as you retain concentration you can ready an action to release it on any turn you like - however this must be aimed in a given direction, which can deviate up to 90 degrees (effectively 1 space if you are size medium or target any creature adjacent/within natural reach to direction of aim). You can withhold the attack for a number of rounds equal to your channeling level + prime ability score modifier. Beyond this you must succeed on a DC 15 concentration check to continue withholding the attack; this DC increases by +2 per each round following. Failing the concentration check means you loose the blast wherever it was initially aimed via readied action - or at GM discretion if it wasn't aimed.

While charging is a 1 round action, releasing the blast is a standard action. Because charging and withholding requires concentration, the channeler cannot perform any other actions while withholding, besides delay, 5 ft. steps, and standard or readied actions to release the blast.

The blast deals channeler's ECL * 1d8 bludgeoning and fire damage.

Creatures caught within the blast are not entitled to a reflex save to avoid without improved evasion (and even then, they only completely avoid damage on a successful save and instead take full damage on failure rather than half). Creatures must also succeed on a balance check equal to 1/4 damage taken from the blast + channeling level of the channeler. This also applies to creature's adjacent to the channeler.

If the creature fails their balance check by 10 or more, they are thrown back with the blast as if bull rushed by another creature that continually moves with them and ignores all obstacles and terrain - creature does not stop when approaching a boundary - instead they take double damage from impacting with a boundary on a bull rush and the boundary is destroyed utterly in a number of spaces equal to the width in spaces that the bull rushed creature occupies; this depending on how many feet of movement they have left (subtract the boundary's hardness from their remaining feet of movement - if the result is 0 or less, the creature stops, takes regular damage and the boundary is not destroyed). The bull rush check made against them is equal to the damage they've suffered x 4.

Charging: 1 additional damage die per point sacrificed. If you spend 4 points without adding to damage die, then you can shape the blast anyway you like up to a width equal to 5*your channeling level in feet in a cone (starts at 1/2 width 5ft. outwards from you), or half that in a square or rectangle. Elevation of the blast is always equal to the width.
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Torrential Push[Offensive]
Level: 3
Energy Cost: 6/8/10
Target: 5ft. wide * character ECL cone, or square/rectangle equal to half that width; elevation is always equal to width
Effect: A heavy force of wind is sent against the creature
Range: Close (30 ft+5 ft/level)
Duration: Instant

In an instant, you unleash powerful wind currents to buffet your foes.

As an immediate action, you force foes in the area of effect to save against a windstorm or be blown away. This does not count as a weather effect, and so don't apply windstorm affects for anything other then the fort save and blown away conditions.

You are not affected by your own weather conditions.

This attack cannot be performed while grappling without a successful grapple check to damage your opponent (refer to 'damage your opponent' under grapple rules in SRD). If allowed, the attack can be performed against opponents you are not grappling.

Charging: For every 3 points spent, you can increase the effective weather condition by one step, increasing the fort save along with it. Summoning tornadoes requires a standard action. Beyond hurricanes or tornadoes, you can increase the fort save DC to avoid blown away conditions by 1 per 1 point sacrificed.
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Eruption[Offensive]
Level: 6
Energy Cost: 12/14/16
Target: Area (burst) centered on you
Effect: Energy explodes outwards from channeler, damaging and thrusting opponents away from her
Range: 15ft. radius +5 ft./4 levels
Duration: 1 round/Channeler level

Tremendous energy erupts from you, forcing your opponents away.

Opponents must make a fortitude save equal to your channeler level + the energy spent on this ability. Failure means that they are pushed to the edge of the blast and must make a balance check equal to the previous Fort DC or fall prone. Roll 1d6 to determine direction (1 - 6 clockwise, starting north; on a roll of 6, roll again). Direction must always be away from the channeler (never through or adjacent to channeler).

If you channel this attack as an immediate action, the damage dealt by it is divided by 4 (round down) - such an attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity and ignores any creatures grappling with the channeler along with any other distractions. A full round action means that the attack deals full damage, but provokes attacks of opportunity - however, it also ignores creatures grappling with the attacker and all other distractions.

Damage dealt is 1d6*channeler's ECL Fire and Sonic and Bludgeoning.

Charging: 1 additional damage die per point spent. Radius increases by 5ft. per 2 points spent on damage or 10ft. per 2 points spent that do not increase damage.
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Blast, Seeking[Offensive]
Level: 3
Energy Cost: 6/8/10
Target: Any, explodes in 5ft. radius
Effect: Create a guided ball of energy
Range: Line of Sight
Duration: Concentration

You forge a fulcrum of energy, that even at post-creation, can be directed through your own will.

Creating the ball of energy is a move action, while guiding it is also a move action. The ball of energy moves via flight at a static speed of 2000ft./round (perfect) and may begin moving immediately upon creation. If it can reach a target (occupy the target's space - if the target attacks it, through AoO, readied action, or otherwise, the target takes damage regardless), then it may perform a touch attack against the target, using the channeler's ability score delegated to this power and BAB as attack modifier. Do not factor range increment penalties for this role - since the channeler has a mental connection to the ball, the range is effectively unlimited (up to line of sight).

If an opponent attempts to move through a space occupied by an energy ball, the energy ball gets an attack of opportunity versus that creature.

The channeler can guide the ball precariously as an immediate action, but the ball takes a -10 penalty to touch attacks.

If the channeler ceases concentrating, the ball explodes wherever it happens to be. To create new balls, the channeler must cease concentrating on any existing ones.

Damage dealt is 1d4*channeler's ECL and any energy type of the channeler's choosing. The ball explodes in a 5ft. radius and is destroyed upon successful attacks, dealing damage to any creature within the area of affect as well. It receives a number of maximum touch attacks equal to the movement it has left in its turn - each attack effectively costs 200ft. of movement.

Charging: For every additional 2 points spent channeling this power, the channeler may create an additional ball of energy in the same move action she used to create the first one. They may control multiple balls simultaneously, moving each of them however they like - but precarious attacks apply to all balls.

The explosive radius of any ball increases by 5ft. per 1 additional point spent channeling the power + 1 per ball created in the same action (minimum 2). This does not count towards points spent to create multiple balls of energy in the same action.