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Altair_the_Vexed
2010-05-28, 03:59 AM
Just a few thoughts...

As Pathfinder has been out for a while now, it's fairly clear that it suffers from many of the same higher level balance issues that D&D 3.5 does.

I favour E6 (E6 is explained here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=352719)) for dealing with balance issues. I'm not a optimisation genius, nor a particularly skilled d20 engineer - I tend to rely on other people to crunch the numbers.
I've just found that E6 seems to deal with the imbalance of casters and mundanes at higher level...

So - is Pathfinder open to the E6 treatment? Does the slightly higher level of starting power go too much aginst the philosophy of E6?
More feats - but these are available to everyone PF's expanded feats are mainly aimed at higher levels - which ones could and should be brought in as E6 Epic feats? All the classes get a little something extra - are these balanced out between classes up to 6th?

In short, are there any special issues surrounding "P6"? Have you tried it already?

Zovc
2010-05-28, 04:17 AM
I've just found that E6 seems to deal with the imbalance of casters and mundanes at higher level...

This really is a matter of semantics, and I'm not trying to troll, but E6 'seems to deal with the imbalance of casters and mundanes at higher level" because it omits higher levels.

As for doing E6 with Pathfinder... why not?

You could always award 4+Int skill points in addition to the incremental feats, that should take care of any prerequisites, right?

nedz
2010-05-28, 04:49 AM
This really is a matter of semantics, and I'm not trying to troll, but E6 'seems to deal with the imbalance of casters and mundanes at higher level" because it omits higher levels.

Well the original version of the game only had 6 levels, so its never suprised me that they work the best.


As for doing E6 with Pathfinder... why not?

I agree: should work very well.

AvatarZero
2010-05-28, 04:53 AM
Pathfinder is slightly different to core, so there are some issues, but it's essentially the same way to play DnD.

Level adjustment is a bit wonky in epic 6, so the fact that Pathfinder makes less of a deal of it might make things easier.

Both Clerics and Wizards get a final class ability at a variable level depending on domain or specialization. Could be level 4, 6 or 8. Playing epic 6 with Pathfinder is a strong discouragement to play Clerics or Wizards from the level 8 specialities; this will irritate people who have a cool concept for an illusionist, for instance.

Fighters still don't have enough class features that aren't feats to be an attractive choice in feat-heavy epic 6.

Still, it's pretty much the same game.

Redrat2k6
2010-05-28, 11:20 AM
I am DMing a "P8" game right now, heavy with houserules and soon going to use the Pathfinder Kingmaker, Kingdom rules when I get my hands on them.

So far it has turned out quite nice.

I lowered Prestige Class Requirements so characters can get in by level 5.
I also lowered feat requirements a bit for BAB which turned out nice.

In the end it turned out quite balanced, and is really fun to play. Level 1 characters really are a threat in numbers and it sort of has a Lord of the Rings feel to it.

WorstDMEver
2010-05-28, 12:24 PM
Well the original version of the game only had 6 levels, so its never suprised me that they work the best.


You had the Basic Set, too?

Ah, the good old days at the Keep on the Borderlands, when all Dwarves were fighters, all Halflings were thieves and all Elves were fighter/magic-users. And the good old racist level restrictions - er, "racial."

Then the gave us the Expert Set and the Isle of Dread!

Never got the Master Set.... Moved right to AD&D.

Mystic Muse
2010-05-28, 01:06 PM
Can somebody explain E6 to me?

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 01:07 PM
Can somebody explain E6 to me?

the key knowledge is that it ends at level 6 and every time you would get a new level after that, you instead get a new feat.

TheLogman
2010-05-28, 01:08 PM
Basically charcters only really level up to level 6.

After that, at every level they get a feat instead of actually leveling up.

The idea is that characters get stronger when they level up, but there is no imbalance, since 6 is about where every class is kinda equal in power.

It doesn't always work, and it eliminates any sort of superpowered guys later on, and some classes use feats better than other classes, but it's an okay system.

Mystic Muse
2010-05-28, 01:14 PM
So, do you have to reach the equivalent of level 7 each time or do you still have to get the normally required experience of level 8,9,10, 11, 12 ETC to "level up"?

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 01:18 PM
So, do you have to reach the equivalent of level 7 each time or do you still have to get the normally required experience of level 8,9,10, 11, 12 ETC to "level up"?

5k XP each time.

Altair_the_Vexed
2010-05-28, 02:25 PM
You had the Basic Set, too?

Ah, the good old days at the Keep on the Borderlands, when all Dwarves were fighters, all Halflings were thieves and all Elves were fighter/magic-users. And the good old racist level restrictions - er, "racial."

Then the gave us the Expert Set and the Isle of Dread!

Never got the Master Set.... Moved right to AD&D.
The Expert Set went up to 14th, though - or at least mine did.

Never really did AD&D. It was just too clunky and ad hoc.

Anyway - looks like I'll be thrashing out a few things to make P6 work. Should be fun.
Here's a link to where E6 is explained (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=352719). I've added it to the OP, too.