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Enix18
2010-05-28, 09:44 AM
So, today I proposed this idea to another player, and while he thinks it's somehow against the rules, as far as I can tell there is nothing in the RAW that contradicts it, so I would like your opinions:

Is it possible for a PC to become an animal companion of a druid or ranger?

To clarify, here's the scenario I thought of. The party's wizard casts polymorph on himself, becoming one of the animals listed on the druid's list of potential animal companions. He uses the persistent spell metamagic to extend the duration of the polymorph to 24 hours. As long as he is in this form, he meets all of the criteria for a druid's animal companion. The druid then performs the 24-hour ritual to make the polymorphed wizard into his animal companion. When the wizard finally reverts to his normal form, he would still be considered the druid's companion, as there is nothing in the rules that says and animal companion that changes type/subtype loses it's companion status. (If that was the case, an enemy could simply cast polymorph on your animal companion and you would lose it.) Now, as the druid grows in level, the wizard gains all of the benefits that the druid's animal companion would gain: bonus HD, natural armor, improved DEX, evasion, shared spells, etc.

So what do you folks think? It may be cheesy, but I can see no flaws in this logic.

Yora
2010-05-28, 09:50 AM
A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below.

Animal Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes.
A human shapeshifted into a wolf would not be a completely typical wolf. And even if one uses a very questionable way of reading RAW, it would still obviously completely against RAI.

jiriku
2010-05-28, 09:55 AM
In addition to what Yora noted, the druid's ceremony allows him to "gain a new animal companion" and specify the type of creature, but it doesn't specify that the druid can choose a specific animal. The DM could very reasonably intepret that to mean that the druid's companion wanders out of the forest to join him and that he can't designate a specific animal to be his companion.

nedz
2010-05-28, 10:27 AM
Another spanner:
The polymorph runs out just before the ritual completes.
Both have a 24 hour duration, and the polymorph is cast just before the ritual starts.

Enix18
2010-05-28, 02:19 PM
A human shapeshifted into a wolf would not be a completely typical wolf. And even if one uses a very questionable way of reading RAW, it would still obviously completely against RAI.

Well, the way I saw it, the rules only state that a druid's 1st level animal companion—the one they start a campaign with—is a typical example of it's kind. There are no such restrictions beyond first level, and in fact there are examples of published WotC material that features nonstandard animal companions, hence my thinking that not every animal companion has to be a completely average stock version of its given species.


In addition to what Yora noted, the druid's ceremony allows him to "gain a new animal companion" and specify the type of creature, but it doesn't specify that the druid can choose a specific animal. The DM could very reasonably intepret that to mean that the druid's companion wanders out of the forest to join him and that he can't designate a specific animal to be his companion.

Yes, that is a possible interpretation, but it's still just an interpretation. Assuming you interpret it the other way—that a druid may make a specific animal it's companion, as other WotC-published material would seem to support—then I still see nothing within the RAW to disallow such a thing from occurring.

Darrin
2010-05-28, 04:19 PM
An animal with an Int of 2 isn't suitable for a player character. Using the Leadership feat to pick up a cohort, and having another player play the cohort as a PC might be more workable.

Best Animal Cohort (Barbarian 1/Bard 3+):

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090609180450/muppet/images/d/df/Animal-portal.jpg

ka_bna
2010-05-28, 04:42 PM
In addition to what Yora noted, the druid's ceremony allows him to "gain a new animal companion" and specify the type of creature, but it doesn't specify that the druid can choose a specific animal. The DM could very reasonably intepret that to mean that the druid's companion wanders out of the forest to join him and that he can't designate a specific animal to be his companion.

So... make sure you remove all animals on land, on/in the water, underground and in the air within a reasonable radius, say 100 miles. As the ritual doesn't summon or call animals, the only suitable animal around is the wizard.

As far as duration goes, how about PAO? It would change a human to a wolf for two days (class, size, INT), and you don't even have to extend it.

Prime32
2010-05-28, 04:54 PM
There are rules in the DMG stating that a paladin can designate a cohort as his special mount for +2LA.

The Devoted Tracker (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Devoted_Tracker) feat lets you designate your special mount as your animal companion, even though special mounts aren't animals (for a druid build I recommend two levels of prestige paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) combined with one of the variant-alignment paladins).

Just apply this to another PC instead of a cohort.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 04:57 PM
Because of action economy, doesn't this still end up pretty much a loss? The benefits are minor for a full-cheese Wizard and you lose the semi-expendable warm body that beats the hell out of things for the Druid.

Prime32
2010-05-28, 04:59 PM
Because of action economy, doesn't this still end up pretty much a loss? The benefits are minor for a full-cheese Wizard and you lose the semi-expendable warm body that beats the hell out of things for the Druid.I'm sure you can think of some way a PC could use all those extra HD. :smallwink: (hint - abilities that scale by character level)

A druid 18/prestige paladin 2 with the Holy Mount feat (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Holy_Mount) could grant another PC 20 extra HD for +2LA (which could be bought off, if you're using those rules).

Greenish
2010-05-28, 05:02 PM
I'm sure you can think of some way a PC could use all those extra HD. :smallwink: (hint - abilities that scale by character level)The HD doesn't grant casting advance, but do you know what it does grant?

ECL. Enjoy your animal RHD.

nedz
2010-05-28, 05:17 PM
The HD doesn't grant casting advance, but do you know what it does grant?

ECL. Enjoy your animal RHD.

ROFLMAO
So even if this exploit does work, you wouldn't want to do it anyway.

I think this exploit needs a name, allow me to make a suggestion.
Assuming you PAO into a female dog, then this would be the Bitch exploit.:smallbiggrin:

ka_bna
2010-05-28, 05:24 PM
The HD doesn't grant casting advance, but do you know what it does grant?

ECL. Enjoy your animal RHD.

One thing the wizard might find useful is the share spells ability (combine with a feat so you don't have to stand 5ft next to the druid).

As for ECL: an AC doesn't have a seperate CR, it's part of the druid, so it won't heighten ECL. Question is: would the wizard get XP for himself, or none as it's an AC?

Enix18
2010-05-28, 09:30 PM
Because of action economy, doesn't this still end up pretty much a loss? The benefits are minor for a full-cheese Wizard and you lose the semi-expendable warm body that beats the hell out of things for the Druid.

Actually, the real reason I was considering it was so that I could become the Animal Companion of our party's ranger, who doesn't really use his companion to much effect as it is. It wouldn't be quite as much of a loss as the druid's fighter cohort animal companion.

mucat
2010-05-28, 09:37 PM
Actually, the real reason I was considering it was so that I could become the Animal Companion of our party's ranger, who doesn't really use his companion to much effect as it is. It wouldn't be quite as much of a loss as the druid's fighter cohort animal companion.
You were considering using this in a real campaign, and not as a "look-at-the-hole-I-found-in-RAW" theoretical exercise?

Does your DM know you think he/she is an idiot?

Enix18
2010-05-28, 09:59 PM
You were considering using this in a real campaign, and not as a "look-at-the-hole-I-found-in-RAW" theoretical exercise?

Does your DM know you think he/she is an idiot?

Well, not exactly, this whole thing just came up while myself and another player were messing with the DM and telling him about the myriad ways in which we were going to change our characters and essentially break and derail his campaign (which we of course would never actually do, since it's too much fun) and replacing the ranger's useless companion seemed like a logical excuse. I believe the idea of a humanoid animal companion came up after we said we wanted to make an orc character focused on devouring enemies' corpses and wearing their skin (which is actually a prestige class!).

Yeah...

mucat
2010-05-28, 10:03 PM
Ah, understood. Then it is hypothetical, except that you first get to make the DM gibber and pull his hair out. :smallsmile: