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AstralFire
2010-05-28, 12:14 PM
Alright, here's what I like:
- Holy aesthetics. Fire, light, the sun, feathered wings, sugar gummydrop lovecakes.
- Crazy stunt archery. Tales of the Abyss Natalia, Narnia/Prince Caspian movies Susan, LotR movies Legolas.

Here's what we probably need:
- A leader or controller.

Help me with some class and build suggestions. There have been two player's handbooks and a bunch of other stuff since I last looked at building a character, so I'm rusty beyond belief. The general hook involves all of our party having sold our souls and now being allowed a chance to redeem ourselves, but I haven't really finalized much yet on a personality, backstory, race or anything.

Gnome, Eladrin, Dwarf, Half-Orc, Kobold, Human all look pretty cool. Want to avoid Dragonborn, Tiefling, Deva among other stuff.

Thanks in advance.

DM has suggested a refluffed bard, which is peachy keen with me - I love bards - but v. willing to receive other ideas and suggestions.

Meta
2010-05-28, 12:18 PM
Alright, here's what I like:
- Holy aesthetics. Fire, light, the sun, feathered wings, sugar gummydrop lovecakes.
- Crazy stunt archery. Tales of the Abyss Natalia, Narnia/Prince Caspian movies Susan, LotR movies Legolas.

Here's what we probably need:
- A leader or controller.

Help me with some class and build suggestions. There have been two player's handbooks and a bunch of other stuff since I last looked at building a character, so I'm rusty beyond belief. The general hook involves all of our party having sold our souls and now being allowed a chance to redeem ourselves, but I haven't really finalized much yet on a personality, backstory, race or anything.

Gnome, Eladrin, Dwarf, Half-Orc, Kobold, Human all look pretty cool. Want to avoid Dragonborn, Tiefling, Deva among other stuff.

Thanks in advance.

If you don't mind worshipping sehanine, A bow cleric of sehanine is fun and effective. dragon 386 warrants a look if that sounds good to you, and the PP is also in there. if that appeals to you, we can flesh out the details

The Glyphstone
2010-05-28, 12:19 PM
Isn't the Seeker(Primal) a controller all about using a bow?

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 12:22 PM
I think Astral wants Divine rather than Primal though.

(Building Kikyo?)

Xallace
2010-05-28, 12:27 PM
Well, your DM seems to have beaten me to the suggestion of a re-fluffed Prescience Bard. Re-fluffed Seeker is a fine choice, but perhaps not the best.

Bow Cleric, as mentioned, is another good option. If I recall, you're primarily a laser cleric who uses a bow as an implement; but easy refluffing of all your ranged, single-target attacks should work well.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 12:43 PM
Isn't the Seeker(Primal) a controller all about using a bow?

Yeah. I'm pretty much trying to get a full grasp of my options, here. :) (And I'd prefer to avoid refluffing if I can get what I want without it - it's not a big thing, but eh.)


I think Astral wants Divine rather than Primal though.

(Building Kikyo?)

Nah, I don't like Inu-Yasha. Just general aesthetics I like. But yes, Divine rather than Primal, though if my two best options are Bard and Seeker, I may well end up Bard. I had a Changeling Bard in 3E I adored that I wouldn't mind picking back up...


If you don't mind worshipping sehanine, A bow cleric of sehanine is fun and effective. dragon 386 warrants a look if that sounds good to you, and the PP is also in there. if that appeals to you, we can flesh out the details

What makes Sehanine special?

Mando Knight
2010-05-28, 01:24 PM
Gnome, Eladrin, Dwarf, Half-Orc, Kobold, Human all look pretty cool. Want to avoid Dragonborn, Tiefling, Deva among other stuff.
Elf, actually. Elves make the best archers, since they don't need to spend a feat on longbows if they don't feel like getting a Greatbow instead. At level 11, Elves and Eladrin can enter the Paragon path Seldarine Dedicate (Divine Power sourcebook) and use longbows and shortbows as implements for cleric and Seldarine Dedicate powers. Flavor-wise, most Seldarine Dedicates follow Corellon or Sehanine.

Bards can also serve as Bow Clerics, since they can get feats to use their implements for any other class's powers and the Songbow line of magical weapons are all Bard implements.

Meta
2010-05-28, 01:24 PM
Yeah. I'm pretty much trying to get a full grasp of my options, here. :) (And I'd prefer to avoid refluffing if I can get what I want without it - it's not a big thing, but eh.)



Nah, I don't like Inu-Yasha. Just general aesthetics I like. But yes, Divine rather than Primal, though if my two best options are Bard and Seeker, I may well end up Bard. I had a Changeling Bard in 3E I adored that I wouldn't mind picking back up...



What makes Sehanine special?

The article is a called channel divinity: sehanine and the fluff is very sehanine-ish. Plus some of the feats and the one's that would make your idea mechanically requisite worshiping sehanine. If your character does'nt mind worshipping more than one god, this doesnt limit you in any way

EDIT: What Mando Knight said is also perfectly valid, it just doesn't come into its own until Paragon tier. Your best best for a cleric bow-user would be to use the related feats in that article and then take the PP Mando outlined imho.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 01:29 PM
Elf, actually. Elves make the best archers, since they don't need to spend a feat on longbows if they don't feel like getting a Greatbow instead. At level 11, Elves and Eladrin can enter the Paragon path Seldarine Dedicate (Divine Power sourcebook) and use longbows and shortbows as implements for cleric and Seldarine Dedicate powers. Flavor-wise, most Seldarine Dedicates follow Corellon or Sehanine.

Bards can also serve as Bow Clerics, since they can get feats to use their implements for any other class's powers and the Songbow line of magical weapons are all Bard implements.

Butbutbut Eladrin teleport. Noted, however. ;)


The article is a called channel divinity: sehanine and the fluff is very sehanine-ish. Plus some of the feats and the one's that would make your idea mechanically requisite worshiping sehanine. If your character does'nt mind worshipping more than one god, this doesnt limit you in any way

EDIT: What Mando Knight said is also perfectly valid, it just doesn't come into its own until Paragon tier. Your best best for a cleric bow-user would be to use the related feats in that article and then take the PP Mando outlined imho.

Noted. I need to get back to Saga homebrewing, but I will take a look and get back to you guys in a bit. Thanks.

Master_Rahl22
2010-05-28, 01:31 PM
The Seldarine Dedicate PP from Divine Power is exactly what you're looking for. Requires Elf or Eladrin, Cleric, and proficiency with longbow or shortbow. It lets you use a bow as your implement for Cleric or Seldarine Dedicate powers, and the level 16 ability lets you use a free action to shift 1 square before or after you use a Cleric or Seldarine Dedicate power. I've seen some Laser Cleric builds that recommend Elf, so that might be a good fit for you.

Ninja'd!

Hzurr
2010-05-28, 01:38 PM
You mentioned that you like crazy stunt archery, so from that angle, I'd actually suggest Seeker. One of the primary class attributes is the ability to re-direct a shot after you miss someone, using the missed target's square as the origin. This can very litterally let you shoot someone hiding on the far side of a building, by bouncing an arrow off his ally. To get the divine bit in there, I'd recommend multi-classing into Cleric (since I believe both Seeker and Cleric are wisdome based), and for a race, I'd go Deva (for fluff reasons), since Deva have that half-celestial tint to them. If I remember correctly, there are also a few feats that let you do more divine and radient damage as a Deva, but I'm away from my books/DDI at the moment, so I can't say for certain.

But yeah, that's just an alternate suggestion. The other ideas mentioned of either using a bard, or a cleric of Sehanine are all really good suggestions. I just submitted this on the idea of making an archer first, and then adding on divine bits, rather than the other way around.

Mando Knight
2010-05-28, 01:51 PM
Butbutbut Eladrin teleport. Noted, however. ;)

Eladrin can take the Seldarine Dedicate PP, they just need to spend a feat on getting the bow proficiency before Paragon and also need to invest in stats they don't have a boost to.

CarpeGuitarrem
2010-05-28, 03:07 PM
I guess this might be too far out on the "Divine" spectrum, but how about an Invoker houseruled to use a bow as his implement? Shouldn't gamebreak it too bad, the way I see it, as long as you use staff enhancements on the bow. I mean, it seems to me that it's mainly a flavor issue.

Thajocoth
2010-05-28, 05:08 PM
You can be a Deva for divinity (or take the Deva Heritage feat) and be a Seeker or Bow-Bard...

You can refluff stuff, with your DM's permission.

You can be a hybrid of two classes. Some combinations that might work:
Seeker + Paladin (Str & Wis build)
Seeker + Avenger (Wis/Dex build)
Bard + Cleric (Cha & Wis build)
Bard + Paladin (Cha/Wis build)
Artificer + Invoker (Int & Wis build)
Artificer + Avenger (Int & Wis build)
Ranger + Avenger (Dex & Wis build)

Since your party needs leader & controller the most, Bard|Cleric and Artificer|Invoker would probably be better options.

Theodoric
2010-05-28, 05:20 PM
You can be a hybrid of two classes. I'll edit this post with divine + archery combinations that might work
Seeker/cleric or seeker/invoker immediatly come to mind.

Thajocoth
2010-05-28, 05:23 PM
Seeker/cleric or seeker/invoker immediatly come to mind.

They have the same primary ability score, so it's workable, but you get a bit MAD with your secondary ability scores. What I posted are combinations where the primary and secondary ability scores can match, even if conversely.

AstralFire
2010-05-28, 07:06 PM
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Helena.dnd4e
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Helena.pdf

good/bad?

Meta
2010-05-28, 10:29 PM
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Helena.dnd4e
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Helena.pdf

good/bad?

Can you do anything to make it easier to read/understand?

EDIT: nvm im dumb, reading the PDF now

EDIT 2: Well I think your AC is off by a few points. You have +1 chainmail but your not wearing it?

And are you a vistani for RP reasons? Mechanically its not the greatest use of your first feat.

CarpeGuitarrem
2010-05-28, 11:49 PM
They have the same primary ability score, so it's workable, but you get a bit MAD with your secondary ability scores. What I posted are combinations where the primary and secondary ability scores can match, even if conversely.
That might actually be a bigger problem. If they have inverted primary and secondary scores, that just means they should have both scores be pretty high. If you have a shared primary ability score, and split secondaries, that means you have one high score, two lower ones. It's easier to get one high score and two smaller ones than it is to get two high scores, because of how point buy scales. (Having two primaries is like trying to build a paladin or ranger who makes use of both primary ability score paths...it really doesn't work incredibly)

With a shared primary, you can pick and choose attack powers from either class, since the primary is the most important part. And then you can split your secondaries for smaller benefits. Because the primary stat influences attack rolls, it's very important, far more so than secondaries.

So seeker/invoker would work really well. To top it off: that's a stunt archer who can summon an angel to the battlefield. Oh yeah.

AstralFire
2010-05-29, 12:48 AM
Can you do anything to make it easier to read/understand?

EDIT: nvm im dumb, reading the PDF now

EDIT 2: Well I think your AC is off by a few points. You have +1 chainmail but your not wearing it?

And are you a vistani for RP reasons? Mechanically its not the greatest use of your first feat.

I have no idea what a Vistani is. I don't know much about the DM's world, so I'm letting the character get built up, then I'll develop them as a personality. It seemed like a good feat if I was ever stuck in a solo combat situation.

Forgot to add the armor so I was wearing it. I'll try the Seeker/Invoker tomorrow, but Seeker seems to have a lot of cold based powers.

The New Bruceski
2010-05-29, 12:58 AM
I have no idea what a Vistani is. I don't know much about the DM's world, so I'm letting the character get built up, then I'll develop them as a personality. It seemed like a good feat if I was ever stuck in a solo combat situation.

Forgot to add the armor so I was wearing it. I'll try the Seeker/Invoker tomorrow, but Seeker seems to have a lot of cold based powers.

A Vistani is a Ravenloft gypsy.

AstralFire
2010-05-29, 02:32 AM
Wasn't really a fan of seeker/invoker. Here's try two at cleric/bard though:
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Suryana.pdf

Meta
2010-05-29, 03:39 AM
Wasn't really a fan of seeker/invoker. Here's try two at cleric/bard though:
http://www.theanteheroes.com/Suryana.pdf

Definitely better i think! you can take both of those expertise feats as one feat called versatile expertise though, so you'll have room for another feat without losing anything