Bard BBEG

[Seth1221]

So, here's the deal.

I'm currently creating a villan form my dear players and I want him to be a bard. The way I see him is a sort of gray eminence. I want him to act mainly behind the courtains and through his unaware lackeys (through manipulation). I'd love if he would act through his non-magical powers rather than magic and enchantments domination and stuff. I'm asking mainly for interesting prestige classes and feats. My thoughts:

Spymaster (Complete Adventurer) - maily for RP factors - undetectable alingment is nice.
Insidious Corruptor (Drow of the Underdark) - he is kinda cool but acts mainly on magic. I'd love my gray eminence to work well without magic.

Any thoughts?

[Machiavellian]

I suggest making the villain an Awakened Cat Bard/Spymaster, because the tricky villain is always the most vexing to PCs.

And name him Evil the Cat (EWJ reference)

[the humanity]

look up 'joker bard'.

it might help.

[Optimystik]

Joker Bard sounds like exactly what you're looking for. I forget whose sig it's in... Shneekey's?

[Seth1221]

Yeah I've read it and frankly I wasn't astonishd by it. Mainly because it gives general pointers (which I was aware by then) rather than any interesting build hints.

[the humanity]

ok, that's fair enough. what about it was wrong then? did it lack something?

[DragoonWraith]

Well, Bard, Spymaster, Changeling, flavor to taste?

[Seth1221]

ok, that's fair enough. what about it was wrong then? did it lack something?

No don't get me wrong. It was a good lecture, quite a few tactical and general advice. What it lacks (in my personal opinion:smallwink:) is the mechanics. I have concept covered and now I'm just looking for some interesting build ideas:smallamused:

[Machiavellian]

Race: Awakened Cat
Class: Bard 3/Telepath 5/Thrallherd 10/MT 2

[Ozymandias9]

I'm not sure if it would be too magical, but you might look into evangelist. No spell casting per say, but the ability to charm monster music times per day. If your Éminence grise is actually religious in bent, it's a good option.

[Seth1221]

I'm not sure if it would be too magical, but you might look into evangelist. No spell casting per say, but the ability to charm monster music times per day. If your Éminence grise is actually religious in bent, it's a good option.

Yeah the class sounded interesting but won't stick RolePlayologically:smallbiggrin:. He's an aristocrat so evangelist won't do.

[Machiavellian]

Yeah the class sounded interesting but won't stick RolePlayologically:smallbiggrin:. He's an aristocrat so evangelist won't do.

Evil the Cat????

[the humanity]

No don't get me wrong. It was a good lecture, quite a few tactical and general advice. What it lacks (in my personal opinion:smallwink:) is the mechanics. I have concept covered and now I'm just looking for some interesting build ideas:smallamused:

ah, it lacked stats.

Changeling Bard 6/Spymaster 7/Mindbender 7? maybe a little too magic heavy, but it could work...

[Seth1221]

Evil the Cat????

heh point taken:smalltongue:

[KitTheOdd]

Changeling Rogue racial substitution level 1 might be very helpful if you are okay with changeling. It has some very nice social skill benefits.

[AmberVael]

Even if you don't go Changeling Rogue, I highly recommend Changeling. Quick, hard to detect disguising capabilities are amazing for a BBEG. It would be an excellent ability for him to take advantage of and use, especially in terms of his underlings/hirelings. Make each group think that they're being given orders by different people, while you can still directly talk to them. No one ever has to be in the know of who you are- it's perfect.

[Thurbane]

Master of Masks isn't totally horrible for this build, so long as you limit how many levels to invest in it...

[Darcand]

Sounds like you don't even need him to be a bard, but an aristocrat instead. He doesn't need any special powers other then being smart and manipulative so why not just load him on charisma and intelligence and take skill enhancing feats?

I know this will make the "boss fight" a landslide as the PCs saunter into the room and chop him into pieces, so why not have the end f the campaign not be a combat scene, but rather a blow up the deathstar/ smash through his defences and one shot the bbeg/ beat him at his own game and get him arrested and stripped of all wealth and title? Those are endings you see seldom enough in this game.

[Runestar]

What cr are we looking at? You may simply be better off using a "sneaky" monster such as raksasha.

[Seth1221]

Sounds like you don't even need him to be a bard, but an aristocrat instead. He doesn't need any special powers other then being smart and manipulative so why not just load him on charisma and intelligence and take skill enhancing feats?

I know this will make the "boss fight" a landslide as the PCs saunter into the room and chop him into pieces, so why not have the end f the campaign not be a combat scene, but rather a blow up the deathstar/ smash through his defences and one shot the bbeg/ beat him at his own game and get him arrested and stripped of all wealth and title? Those are endings you see seldom enough in this game.

Aye I was thinking about that. I wanted "The big fight" to be with lackeys of BBEG rather then with himself. What would happen with "the villan" would be entirely up to my PCs - with choices like "hey let's join him, he pays good and lets us slaughter all this people:smallwink:" Who said my PCs are noble heroes?

Oh and I think I will make the BBEG a woman...:smallbiggrin:

Edit: The game will end around lvl 20.

[Ravens_cry]

A good Bard BBEG, in my opinion, would be the man behind the man, or woman as the case may be. They may not be able to attack the party directly, but they can attack their reputations and convince others that the party is a threat to their interests, using blackmail and other forms of coercion when a honeyed tongue fails

[Seth1221]

A good Bard BBEG, in my opinion, would be the man behind the man, or woman as the case may be. They may not be able to attack the party directly, but they can attack their reputations and convince others that the party is a threat to their interests, using blackmail and other forms of coercion when a honeyed tongue fails

Yeah as for now they're in jail becouse of her:smallbiggrin:. Big part of the campaign will be the PCs looking for a way to clear their names and find out who da f... framed them.

[Johel]

http://logo.cafepress.com/8/1221917.6255378.jpg

[Devils_Advocate]

Sounds like you don't even need him to be a bard, but an aristocrat instead.
I was thinking Expert, but yeah. Someone with an NPC class really can accomplish a lot through minions, magic items, and high bonuses.

To borrow from one villain in an online campaign that I followed, "We can resolve this peaceably. I have something you want. We just need to work out what that thing is."

He was an Expert, though he didn't exactly lack in special abilities, being a vampire.

[Ernir]

Maximized Disguise, Gather Info, and Diplomacy skills.

If they kill him, they find out that the person they killed was actually his butler, while he escaped through the servants' exit. If they do something, he finds out about it. If they talk to someone, it's someone he has already diplomanced into being his friend.

[Runestar]

I personally like all my key vilians to be capable of taking care of themselves in a fight, regardless of what role I have them fill. Yes, this would theoretically extend to even said bard npc. :smallbiggrin: