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ArcanistSupreme
2010-05-28, 03:52 PM
I'm going to be participating in a solo gestalt game fairly soon, and I'm torn between playing a Warblade//Psion or a Warblade//Beguiler. Both have good Int synergy and both are fairly versatile. Psion would be more powerful, obviously, but Beguiler would provide me with more options overall, especially on the social side of things (and with a Mindbender dip, telepathy goodies).

So which would you choose and how would you build/play it (32 point buy, any books allowed, please keep cheese minimal)? I'll be starting at level one, but I'm also wondering what the build/strategy would look like around levels five and ten (fifteen and twenty too if you're feeling really ambitious).

Fax Celestis
2010-05-28, 03:55 PM
I'd use Psion, and then manifest control body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) on myself. Beguiler's okay, but Psion will provide better backup for Warblade, and social stuff can be largely covered by RP and proper attribution of skill points.

Asheram
2010-05-28, 03:59 PM
I'd use Psion, and then manifest control body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) on myself. Beguiler's okay, but Psion will provide better backup for Warblade, and social stuff can be largely covered by RP and proper attribution of skill points.

For a solo game, wouldn't Telepath be a better choice? Have you an idea what campaign it'll be?

Draz74
2010-05-28, 04:11 PM
I like the Psion class better of the two, but for a solo campaign I'd actually vote Beguiler. Assuming your DM is of the "skills actually matter in my campaign" variety (like me), that massive infusion of skill points is going to be a huge advantage.

Alternatively, switch to Warblade//Factotum. Not nearly as may spells per day, but switching spell selection drastically from day to day is fun.

PId6
2010-05-28, 04:18 PM
For a solo game, beguiler just sounds too awesome not to do. If there aren't other players waiting for you to end your turn, the DM probably won't care nearly as much if you dominate yourself an adventuring party. :smallwink:

ArcanistSupreme
2010-05-28, 04:28 PM
Have you an idea what campaign it'll be?

Less hack-and-slash more detective work and city-oriented.


Alternatively, switch to Warblade//Factotum. Not nearly as may spells per day, but switching spell selection drastically from day to day is fun.

I know the synergy is really good and that it is a really flexible class, but I'm just not big on Factotums.

This aside, what maneuvers would you guys choose? Would it change based on the other class? Is it worth dipping Crusader for Thicket of Blades?

Amphetryon
2010-05-28, 04:33 PM
Less hack-and-slash more detective work and city-oriented.



I know the synergy is really good and that it is a really flexible class, but I'm just not big on Factotums.

This aside, what maneuvers would you guys choose? Would it change based on the other class? Is it worth dipping Crusader for Thicket of Blades?Go Warblade//Telepath Psion, and focus on Diamond Mind maneuvers. You'll be maxing Concentration anyway, so it's the best synergy. That said, failing to get IHS is officially Doing It Wrong; missing WRT is usually Doing It Wrong, also, but slightly more forgivable in a 1 person campaign.

PId6
2010-05-28, 04:35 PM
Obviously the concentration instead of saves maneuvers. You have a caster on the other side so you're maxing concentration anyway, and when you're playing solo, you can't afford to fail any saves.

A crusader dip isn't bad; it gives you more maneuvers to choose from, Thicket of Blades is nice, and you can dip it a second time at 20th level to get the awesome Aura of Perfect Order.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-05-28, 04:45 PM
I'd use Psion, and then manifest control body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) on myself. Beguiler's okay, but Psion will provide better backup for Warblade, and social stuff can be largely covered by RP and proper attribution of skill points.

That is hilarious... Hello Solicit Psicrystal! No Robilar's Gambit, though... :smallfrown:

Draz74
2010-05-28, 05:05 PM
Less hack-and-slash more detective work and city-oriented.
Then Beguiler is definitely better than Psion.


I know the synergy is really good and that it is a really flexible class, but I'm just not big on Factotums.
That's pretty vague. Why not? Are we talking an issue with flavor or with mechanics here? Because if it's flavor, a Factotum can be built to have pretty much the exact same flavor as a Beguiler. (If it's because you really just want to be a full caster, then yeah, obviously, stick with Beguiler.)


This aside, what maneuvers would you guys choose? Would it change based on the other class? Is it worth dipping Crusader for Thicket of Blades?
Thicket of Blades is awesome for protecting your allies. Or for high-level 1-on-1 duels against people with good Tumble skill, like Test of Spite. In a solo campaign, you probably don't need Thicket of Blades. A Crusader dip might still be a good idea just to get some self-healing, especially if you don't go Factotum.

Whatever you pick for your caster side, you'll probably have maxxed Concentration, which means Diamond Mind (always a strong option) will be your favorite discipline. You could really do great with only 3-5 maneuvers cherry-picked from your other disciplines, and all the rest from Diamond Mind.

That said, I actually don't recommend using your Maneuvers Readied for the Diamond Mind Save-Replacement counters. A Warblade doesn't get very many Readied Maneuvers, and using some of them on situational defensive abilities that may or may not come up is not my favorite idea. Besides, you'll have pretty good saves anyway (Warblade has good Fortitude and adds INT to Reflex; Psion or Beguiler has good Will; and even if you fail a reflex save, you have lots of Hit Points.) At high levels, the Diamond Defense maneuver probably is worth it, since it can apply to any save and will thus come in handy three times as often.

Optimystik
2010-05-28, 05:42 PM
For a solo game, wouldn't Telepath be a better choice? Have you an idea what campaign it'll be?

Telepaths can learn Control Body just fine. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge)

As for Beguilers being better at detective work than Psions... um, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm) no. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/objectReading.htm)

ArcanistSupreme
2010-05-29, 06:38 AM
That's pretty vague. Why not? Are we talking an issue with flavor or with mechanics here? Because if it's flavor, a Factotum can be built to have pretty much the exact same flavor as a Beguiler. (If it's because you really just want to be a full caster, then yeah, obviously, stick with Beguiler.

The mechanics, mostly, and this is probably due to the fact that I have a player in a campaign I'm running right now that is playing a Factotum. I'm just tired of the class for now.


Thicket of Blades is awesome for protecting your allies. Or for high-level 1-on-1 duels against people with good Tumble skill, like Test of Spite. In a solo campaign, you probably don't need Thicket of Blades. A Crusader dip might still be a good idea just to get some self-healing, especially if you don't go Factotum.

Beyond the psionic vigor and share pain with psicrystal combo, aren't there other ways for a Psion to heal for later levels? It's been a while since I've gone through XPH and I don't have my books at the moment.


So, based on what everyone is saying, I've decided to go Telepath//Warblade. Are there any powers I should pick up that might not be as useful in a non-solo campaign? How should I use my feats? I don't want to spend all of them on EK to grab powers I don't have access to.

Draz74
2010-05-29, 09:34 AM
Beyond the psionic vigor and share pain with psicrystal combo, aren't there other ways for a Psion to heal for later levels? It's been a while since I've gone through XPH and I don't have my books at the moment.
Yes, there are ...


I don't want to spend all of them on EK to grab powers I don't have access to.

Oooh, good luck with that healing thing then. Several of the good healing powers (such as Psionic Restoration) are on the Egoist list, and the best hit point-healing power (Mend Wounds) isn't even on the Psion lists at all; it's an Ardent-only power unless you spend a feat on it.

You sure you want Telepath instead of Seer, in a detective-type game? Both of the excellent powers Optimystik pointed out were from the Seer list.

Asheram
2010-05-29, 09:58 AM
Telepaths can learn Control Body just fine. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge)

As for Beguilers being better at detective work than Psions... um, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm) no. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/objectReading.htm)

Oh, I never said they couldn't, but the previous poster never did state what discipline the psion would be.

Darklord Xavez
2010-05-29, 09:59 AM
Psion.

Why, you ask?

Two words: Body Adjustment.

Self-healing FTW!
-Xavez

ArcanistSupreme
2010-05-29, 11:14 AM
Yes, there are ...

Oooh, good luck with that healing thing then. Several of the good healing powers (such as Psionic Restoration) are on the Egoist list, and the best hit point-healing power (Mend Wounds) isn't even on the Psion lists at all; it's an Ardent-only power unless you spend a feat on it.

You sure you want Telepath instead of Seer, in a detective-type game? Both of the excellent powers Optimystik pointed out were from the Seer list.

Hmmm, maybe I will go Seer. That will also allow the Warblade side of things to shine a bit more, but that also forces me to be slightly more careful with stat distribution since I won't be able to rely on the Psion side of things as much in combat. How should I prioritize stats. Int first, obviously, but how much?

2xMachina
2010-05-29, 11:45 AM
Telepath? Egoist? Other?

Take Erudite and don't worry about discipline limitation.