What would you play with these scores? [3.5]

[CockroachTeaParty]

I just rolled the following scores:

16
16
13
12
8
4

What would you play with such an array?

My two thoughts are to completely dump INT and play a barbarian of some kind, or else completely dump STR and play a frail caster, such as a wizard or psion.

I have the option of using a 32 point buy instead, but something about that 4 intrigues me. I've got the chance here to play a character with a crippling weakness, and I enjoy a challenge.

So what would you do? What race would you use? Note that an INT penalty race can't drop that 4 below a 3, so you almost suffer less from such a race. You'll still be just barely above animal intelligence, though. Interesting roleplaying challenge, certainly. I'd have to limit my vocabulary to monosyllabic, simple words, combined with gestures, most likely.

What would a 4 STR represent? Skeletal skinniness? Disease? Morbid obesity? I could play a kobold with a 1 STR, if I wanted to. That would be insane, with a maximum load capacity of less than 10 pounds.

[IonDragon]

Play a half Orc Wizard and dump Cha. You're pretty screwed anyway may as well get some laughs out of it.

[Pluto]

Quadriplegic druid?

[PersonMan]

What level are you? If you're the right level, grab a race with a huge Int penalty, like Gargoyle, Ogre or Minotaur. You lose nothing from the penalty, anyways, and you gain a lot for other things.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Tragically, no race with LA is allowed. We'd be starting level 6.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

play something unexpected it'll be more fun

Example: Paladin! that would be funny. . .

Str: 16
Cha: 16
Con: 13
Wiz: 12
Dex: 8
Int: 4

[Eldariel]

Wizard or Druid seems like your best bet; you can easily afford to dump Strength entirely and be just fine. Though Druid might be a tad cheating since Wildshape means you don't really need to worry about it when you don't want to.

Real man would play Gray Elf Wizard with -2 more to Strength and enjoy. There's something to be said about a man who can barely walk, let alone carry his belongings and yet possesses enough power to level cities.


Can't say I'd find so low number in any of the mental abilities to be alluring. Int may be doable, but Wis seems really tough to make happen and Cha...well, Cha 8 is doable, Cha 6 is still something I can comprehend, but trying to figure out just how...invisible and trivial someone with Cha 4 is is just hard. He's barely above an automaton in his perception regarding his surroundings, almost lacking an ego entirely.

[Amphetryon]

INT: 16
CON: 16
DEX: 13
WIS: 12
CHA: 8
STR: 4

Factotum with Iajitsu Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Gnome Quickrazor).

[Shadowleaf]

Druid:

Strength: 4
Dexterity: 8
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 16
Charisma: 13

It sort of makes sense if you think about it. If you were a frail and weak person, wouldn't you find ways to bypass that, when you live in a world full of magic? If you're not happy with your own form, take another instead.

Take Natural Spell. Insist you always should be in some animal form. Get angry if someone tries to convince you to return to your natural form. It's weak, you're not.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Blast... I wouldn't be high enough level to manifest Metamorphosis as an Egoist. Druid seems the best option as far as transforming is concerned, but I've never been a big fan of that...

This may just be a sign the Gods don't want me playing in this game.

[Optimystik]

Druid:

Strength: 4
Dexterity: 8
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 16
Charisma: 13

It sort of makes sense if you think about it. If you were a frail and weak person, wouldn't you find ways to bypass that, when you live in a world full of magic? If you're not happy with your own form, take another instead.

Take Natural Spell. Insist you always should be in some animal form. Get angry if someone tries to convince you to return to your natural form. It's weak, you're not.

I would take this concept but rearrange the scores:

Strength: 4
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 13
Wisdom: 16
Charisma: 8

Your Con score does not change when you WS, so you would definitely want a 16 there. Cha is pointless - just don't be the party face. The 12 in Dex gives you a positive Initiative mod, and the 13 in Int prepares you to take Combat Expertise if you want to tank.

[RiOrius]

Sorcerer.

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 12
Constitution: 13
Intelligence: 8
Wisdom: 4
Charisma: 16

Y'know Lennie, from Of Mice And Men? Play him, with the ability to throw fireballs.

It'll be a lot of fun.

[Shadowbane]

play something unexpected it'll be more fun

Example: Paladin! that would be funny. . .

Str: 16
Cha: 16
Con: 13
Wiz: 12
Dex: 8
Int: 4

Hi. My name's Forrest, Forrest Gump.

[Knaight]

Gnome Warlock
Str: 4 (2)
Dex: 16
Con: 13 (15)
Int: 8
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

A real weakling who has learned to compensate with magic, and does it to an extreme extent. Most weapons are too heavy for him, even ranged ones, he uses eldritch blast. Climbing and swimming is difficult, so he just flies. He couldn't kick through a paper door if he locks himself in a room by accident (and he isn't that bright), so he just blows it up. Etc.

Alternately, swap Int and Wis, and play a clever tactician who lacks common sense, and is a complete and utter romantic about someone from the far past, and fancies him/herself a storyteller. Said person from the far past should probably be married to someone else, just to make life entertaining. Its less optimal, what with Will Saves and what not, but it can be a lot of fun to play.

[Jack_Simth]

I just rolled the following scores:

16
16
13
12
8
4

What would you play with such an array?

My two thoughts are to completely dump INT and play a barbarian of some kind, or else completely dump STR and play a frail caster, such as a wizard or psion.

I have the option of using a 32 point buy instead, but something about that 4 intrigues me. I've got the chance here to play a character with a crippling weakness, and I enjoy a challenge.

So what would you do? What race would you use? Note that an INT penalty race can't drop that 4 below a 3, so you almost suffer less from such a race. You'll still be just barely above animal intelligence, though. Interesting roleplaying challenge, certainly. I'd have to limit my vocabulary to monosyllabic, simple words, combined with gestures, most likely.

Not fully certain. In terms of covering one's rear, the answer is "Druid" - 4 STR, 8 Dex, 16 Con, 13 Int, 16 Wis, 12 Cha - take the Vow of Poverty (and Natural Spell, but that goes without saying... so why am I saying it?), go into Wildshape, and stay there. Your low scores no longer matter - Wildshape sets the base, Vow of Poverty adds on, and you don't need to unshape to get loot (as you don't use it anyway). Maybe play a Dwarf (as the racial low speed also ceases to matter in Wildshape, but you keep the Darkvision, the save bonuses, and the Con bonus), or a human (for the extra feats and skills - a Human with that array, can take Vow of Poverty at 1st, rather than 3rd - which means two bonus Exalted feats to play with - and Nymph's Kiss at 1st would make for 7 skill points per level, and skill points are tasty... especially with Spot and Listen as class skills, and Wisdom as a primary stat).


What would a 4 STR represent? Skeletal skinniness? Disease? Morbid obesity? Any of the above - but if it's a disease, it needs to be a genetic, wasting illness.

[Roc Ness]

Play a Halfling Swordsage.

Str: 2
Con: 16
Dex: 18
Int: 13
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Now, get an almost limitless number of daggers. Take Weapon Finesse and Shadow Hand feats. Also TWF and quick draw, if possible. Name your halfling "Belkar who works" :smalltongue:

[balistafreak]

Play a Halfling Swordsage.

Str: 2
Con: 16
Dex: 18
Int: 13
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Now, get an almost limitless number of daggers. Take Weapon Finesse and Shadow Hand feats. Also TWF and quick draw, if possible. Name your halfling "Belkar who works" :smalltongue:

... your daggers deal -4 damage? I feel terrible about that.

Also, you'd have trouble carrying any amount of daggers with a strength of 2. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

I'd go for a Human Favored Soul of Kossuth (weapon: spiked chain). You always get at least 1 skill point/level, with 1 more for being Human. That's enough for Concentration and Spellcraft.

CHA 16
WIS 16
STR 13
DEX 12
CON 8
INT 4

[ninjaneer003]

You could be a ranger or a druid wiht a 4 int. You come from the wilds so you know near nothing,

[Zaq]

I'm just going to assume that using the 4 on CON and playing a Necropolitan is flat-out cheating, since you explicitly said that the 4 intrigued you.

For kicks, it might be funny to play an Incarnate with 4 INT, because Incarnates don't NEED skill ranks to be skillmonkeys. You can still get a really damn high mod on almost any skill you care to invest in (INT-based ones will obviously be difficult, but with enough essentia*...), and still only get 1 skill point every level. A similar build might be a Bard with Bardic Knack and Improvisation, who simply doesn't NEED skills to be skillful.

If you want a REAL challenge, put the 4 in CON. How do you not die, you ask? Play a Psion. With Vigor (and the Vigor-Share Pain-Psicrystal trick), you'll have HP that is at a minimum comparable to the rest of the party, and there are enough ways to boost your Fort save that it'll only be a weakness, not a death sentence. Yes, a Dispel will probably kill you, but it'll at least be funny. I can't decide if it would be better to roleplay this character as being super beefy and proud of how strong his mind has made him, or as being super scrawny and inexplicably resilient nonetheless.

*Disclamer: There is no such thing as enough essentia.

[Kaulesh]

Kobold barbarian with the 4 in strength. You have to rage to be able to move.

I suppose you could be a weapon finesse barbarian, as wonky as that seems, to get around the whole "can't hit crap" bit.

Yes, I bet there's a rule against having a starting ability score that low.

[Roc Ness]

... your daggers deal -4 damage? I feel terrible about that.

Also, you'd have trouble carrying any amount of daggers with a strength of 2. :smalltongue:

-4? Shadow Hand to the rescue! Daggers that do +4 damage! Great feat, I say. Even works on zombies. :smallbiggrin:

Dunno about the last bit, though... :smallredface:

[Escheton]

A human crusader with improved toughness and trollblooded as first lvl feats.
Dump the con at 4, dex 8, str and cha 16, int 13 for combat expertise, wis 12

Have him use combat expertise and stances and maneuvers that give hp all the time as much as he can.
Sure, most damage is converted to subdual and if someone cuts his arm off it will regrow. Regenerate 1 and all...
But he is friggin frail and can't dodge a pedestrian. And (evil) people do weird things too you when you get knocked out.

also, max out concentration and take the relevant replacement maneuver

[Douglas]

-4? Shadow Hand to the rescue! Daggers that do +4 damage! Great feat, I say. Even works on zombies. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, it would be +0. Shadow Blade gives dex in addition to strength, not instead of strength. Great if you have at least decent scores in both, not so great if you dumped strength.

Note that you have to read the actual full text description of the feat to see this, as the full text and the table entry do not match. As per the official errata principle known as Text Trumps Table, the full text description takes precedence.

[Roc Ness]

Actually, it would be +0. Shadow Blade gives dex in addition to strength, not instead of strength. Great if you have at least decent scores in both, not so great if you dumped strength.

Note that you have to read the actual full text description of the feat to see this, as the full text and the table entry do not match. As per the official errata principle known as Text Trumps Table, the full text description takes precedence.

Blaarrgh. Why didn't I see that? See, this is why I hate my memory. :smallannoyed:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

As always, I'll recommend a Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, go Wizard 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer X/ PrC Y/ PrC Z, and be sure to get the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. You'd have Str 8, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 5, Cha 11 before your 4th level bonus. At level 6 you'll have 9th level Wizard spellcasting, with no risk of losing your spellbook or components. I'd use the Fighter bonus feats variant from UA and specialize in Conjuration with Abrupt Jaunt, dip a few levels into Master Specialist before going Incantatrix, and then finish out with Thaumaturgist qualifying via Arcane Disciple.

[Ozymandias9]

The idea of a divine agent (MotP) who dumps charisma could be interesting: you're little more than a vessel for the god that works through you.


Your Con score does not change when you WS, so you would definitely want a 16 there.

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the con score changes but the HP explicitly remains the same. A but of a trivial difference though.

[sofawall]

Unless I'm greatly mistaken, the con score changes but the HP explicitly remains the same. A but of a trivial difference though.

Fort Saves, for example.

[Runestar]

As mentioned above, go elf, put the 4 in con, then go necropolitan.

[Tavar]

Fort Saves, for example.

Or con Damage/drain.

Actually, what would happen if you went from a normal Con of 12 to one of 14 wildshaped, then took 2 con damage?

[Draz74]

I once rolled a 3 and had to use it, though the game didn't last long anyway. In the spirit of that character, I suggest a fat little roly-poly Gnomish Cleric.
STR 14
DEX 4
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 16
CHA 8

Who cares that the Dex penalty isn't optimal, you've got plenty of Tier 1 power to make up for that. :smalltongue:

Alternatively, I had a thought similar to a couple of these other suggestions: a meglomaniacal Warlock, teetering on the edge of madness. Human, perhaps.
STR 8
DEX 12
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 4
CHA 16

Or Tome of Battle is always fun. Another Human idea, a Warblade:
STR 16
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 4 (use Moment of Perfect Mind a lot!)
CHA 8

Or, something that no one in the thread has had the audacity to suggest is dumping CON. See how survivable you can still manage to be with that ... perhaps with an Ardent/Crusader? (Use the Psicrystal/Share Pain/Vigor combo, and take the Stone Power and Martial Study (Mind Over Body) feats.)

[mabriss lethe]

I'd be tempted to play a binder who dumped dex or wisdom. I suppose you could either find a race that somewhat negates the 4. Let's say Goblin.


Fumbles the Goblin Binder.

Str: 14
Con: 13
Dex: 6
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Feats:
1:Ignore special requirements
3:Improved Binding
6:(feat of choice)
B:Expel Vestige

Notes: Fumbles can bind up to 4th level vestiges, is immune to fear while binding, and uses two pact augmentations.

[Zaq]

Or, something that no one in the thread has had the audacity to suggest is dumping CON. See how survivable you can still manage to be with that ... perhaps with an Ardent/Crusader? (Use the Psicrystal/Share Pain/Vigor combo, and take the Stone Power and Martial Study (Mind Over Body) feats.)

Ahem. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8585508&postcount=20) I beg your pardon.

[stenver]

Druid

Because druid doesnt give a crap about stats.

[Thrawn4]

How about playing an intelligent but arkward wizard (low wisdom, high intelligence) that focuses on enchanting?
"I don't know why people don't like me, but I can MAKE them like me."

[Delusion]

If rest of the party (and thus DM's monsters) weren't that optimised I'd just play a wizard or beguiler that spends a LOT of time hiding behind illusion etc.

1 hp per level? Hardcore!:smallbiggrin:

[Draz74]

Ahem. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8585508&postcount=20) I beg your pardon.

... teach me to post after midnight ... :smallredface:

[Jair Barik]

Blaarrgh. Why didn't I see that? See, this is why I hate my memory. :smallannoyed:

The reason you didn't see it is because the summary says something completely different to the description. Hurray for the WotC editing process!

[Bharg]

Play a Halfling Swordsage.

Str: 2
Con: 16
Dex: 18
Int: 13
Wis: 8
Cha: 12

Now, get an almost limitless number of daggers. Take Weapon Finesse and Shadow Hand feats. Also TWF and quick draw, if possible. Name your halfling "Belkar who works" :smalltongue:

He won't be able to carry more than a single dagger and his clothes anyway.

[poisonoustea]

I'd dump strength and play a human child. Druid or Cleric can make for a very interesting character.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

i'm suddenly finding my vote with mildly dense charisma caster with low wizdom. . . that sounds like an incredibly fun character.

other party member. "okay who's going to keep watch?"

wisdomless sorcerer/warlock/ whatever "I'll do it!"

rest of party "NO!"

your character "why not?"

party: "because your the guy who somehow didnt notice the TARASQUE trying to eat us last time we let you keep watch."

Sorcerer/warlock/ somthing along those lines that fits your playstyle
Cha: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 13
Str:12
Int: 8
Wiz: 4

[Escheton]

He won't be able to carry more than a single dagger and his clothes anyway.

there is a daggerspamming glove in the MiC. He doesnt need much else.


... teach me to post after midnight ... :smallredface:

you missed 2 con dump suggestions actually. I recall doing so as well


As always, I'll recommend a Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, go Wizard 1/ Stalwart Battle Sorcerer X/ PrC Y/ PrC Z, and be sure to get the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. You'd have Str 8, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 5, Cha 11 before your 4th level bonus. At level 6 you'll have 9th level Wizard spellcasting, with no risk of losing your spellbook or components. I'd use the Fighter bonus feats variant from UA and specialize in Conjuration with Abrupt Jaunt, dip a few levels into Master Specialist before going Incantatrix, and then finish out with Thaumaturgist qualifying via Arcane Disciple.

lvl 9 spells at lvl 6? how does that work?

[2xMachina]

He meant casting as a lvl 9 wizard.

Sorc lvl: You get +2 from loredrake, +1 from G. Draconic Ritual.

Spellhoarding changes Sorc to Wizard.

So, that's lvl 5 spells at lvl 6.

You can also get White Dragonspawn, and buy off that 1 LA for another +1.

[derfenrirwolv]

I thought your con changed when you shapeshifted, but your hipoints didn't, hence a druids need for constitution.

I lost track of where the last shapeshift/wildshape/polymorph rules wound up


Druids good, with the 4 in strength and natural spell you'd hardly notice.

You could also play a half orc and put the 4 in int. It would only drop down to a 3 (instead of a 2, since 3 is the lowest that a pc's int can go) You'd be dumb as a box of rocks, but with an 18 str and 16 con you're all set.

Then there's charismia, the dumpstat. You can play a fighter or barbarian or even a wizard thats just really.. really.. really bad with people. Maybe the wizard can't get over his sesquepedilian loquaciousness, or the cleric treats everyone like they've done something wrong, or a ranger that was raised by wolves... and thrown out of the pack for being too anti social.

[tribble]

Sorcerer
Charisma:16
Wisdom:16
Intelligence:13
Dexterity:12
Constitution:8
Strength:4


as for the Character concept, I was thinking of this gal.
http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/A/AL/ALA/ALAKITTY/1215151712_9980_full.png

She has a condition of some kind (possibly a tapeworm or other parasite) that causes her to have to eat, all the time. a day when she eats enough for three soldiers is tough for her. If she gets even less than that, she faints, and will try to literally eat the shoes off of the feet (http://www.serenesforest.net/fe9/support/019.html)of whoever wakes her up.

She is also shockingly proficient with lightning magic. (pun intended)

[Jack_Simth]

Or con Damage/drain.

Actually, what would happen if you went from a normal Con of 12 to one of 14 wildshaped, then took 2 con damage?
Not clearly spelled out in RAW. As a DM, I say stat damage is a second beast - so you're at -2 con in both forms - and your HP are based on your base form, which also has the -2 con.

[HailDiscordia]

In our most recent campaign there was a Half Orc Barbarian who had a 1 CHA. It was really great fun. He also had an enormous strength, but lacked any ability to be intimidating at all. He was pretty great, everyone really loved him. He also had an enormous fear of mummies and ghosts, really anything that could drain Charisma was his nemesis. I have to say that the obscenely low attribute made him real memorable, especially since it was one of the mental ones.

[Another_Poet]

Play a rogue, put the 4 in Wis and the 8 in Int, name it Leroy.

[Shadowleaf]

Binder would work too.

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 13
Constitution: 16
Intelligence:8
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 4

You wouldn't be the brightest, but below average intelligence and above average wisdom evens it out a bit - you wouldn't be an idiot in any sense of the word... You would not have any friends, though.

In fluff terms, you'd be the worst Binder ever. You can never ever negotiate a proper pact - you always fail your Binding Check, at least until far into your adventuring career.
But come on - how can a pair of horns possibly hurt your social status? No one likes you anyway.

[Harperfan7]

My first answer would be to dump the 4 into charisma and be done with it.

You don't want to do that, do you?

Know what would be fun? An orc wizard who grows up to be an epic archmage more powerful than 95% of all elf/human/dwarf/gnome/halfling wizards. Put the 4 in str for an 8, the 8 in wis/cha for a 6, and put your highest scores in int/dex/con.

[Draz74]

Play a commoner/rogue with Chicken Infested, put the 4 in Wis and the 8 in Int, name it Leroy.

FTFY.
At least he has chicken.

[Dogmantra]

What would you play with such an array?

Another game.

:smallwink:


Joking aside, I'd probably go for a Factotum, but that's 'cause I love me some Factotumy goodness. One 16 in INT, then don't worry about anything else.

[Jallorn]

For giggles you could go with:

Str: 8
Dex: 13
Con: 12
Int:4
Wis:16
Cha:16

And play a cleric or bard. As a cleric, he's rather stupid and simple, but has a deep and moving faith in his god. His instincts usually serve him well, even if he doesn't understand complex plans.

The Bard is a simple, friendly, and seemingly naive fellow. He loves his music as much as the cleric loves his god, but in an obviously different way. This one seems like it might actually be a bit harder since there is usually a technical aspect to music, but you could just have him play what he feels. One of his 3 skills should definitely be perform.

[Doc Roc]

Tragically, no race with LA is allowed. We'd be starting level 6.

Is wildshape druid allowed?

[Togo]

Play a wizard alienist, with a wisdom of 4. :smallbiggrin:

[Optimystik]

I still don't see why Druid is not the best choice here. Dump your physical stats and live your life as a wild creature.

[Zovc]

If you want a REAL challenge, put the 4 in CON. How do you not die, you ask? Play a Psion. With Vigor (and the Vigor-Share Pain-Psicrystal trick), you'll have HP that is at a minimum comparable to the rest of the party, and there are enough ways to boost your Fort save that it'll only be a weakness, not a death sentence. Yes, a Dispel will probably kill you, but it'll at least be funny. I can't decide if it would be better to roleplay this character as being super beefy and proud of how strong his mind has made him, or as being super scrawny and inexplicably resilient nonetheless.

Also be an Elan, so that as a last ditch effort, you can take damage to your power points instead of your precious hit points.

[Doc Roc]

I still don't see why Druid is not the best choice here. Dump your physical stats and live your life as a wild creature.

Seconded.... Unless you want to play a crippled toon, there's no reason not to play the druid.

[Jallorn]

Seconded.... Unless you want to play a crippled toon, there's no reason not to play the druid.

How about roleplaying?

[mabriss lethe]

Binder would work too.

Strength: 16
Dexterity: 13
Constitution: 16
Intelligence:8
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 4

You wouldn't be the brightest, but below average intelligence and above average wisdom evens it out a bit - you wouldn't be an idiot in any sense of the word... You would not have any friends, though.

In fluff terms, you'd be the worst Binder ever. You can never ever negotiate a proper pact - you always fail your Binding Check, at least until far into your adventuring career.
But come on - how can a pair of horns possibly hurt your social status? No one likes you anyway.


I'd personally avoid dumping Charisma. A 4 in any stat is going to hurt you. Don't put it into what is effectively your casting stat. Remember that it isn't just binding checks that charisma influences, it also sets the save DCs of the majority of a binder's offensive abilities. You're already going to be hurting somewhere, why cut your effective class features in half as well?

[Greenish]

How about roleplaying?Dead people don't roleplay. (Well, aside from the obvious exceptions.)

[Optimystik]

Dead people don't roleplay. (Well, aside from the obvious exceptions.)

Your white text defeated my attempt to snarkily counter with "Necropolitans!" But then again, we covered those in the thread already :smallwink:

[Ozymandias9]

I still don't see why Druid is not the best choice here. Dump your physical stats and live your life as a wild creature.

The op didn't say it's not a good choice, he said he's not a fan of wild shape. Some people just don't like the class.

[Lord Loss]

I say Oblivious Wizard (Taking The Wis Out of Wizard).

[Shadowleaf]

I'd personally avoid dumping Charisma. A 4 in any stat is going to hurt you. Don't put it into what is effectively your casting stat. Remember that it isn't just binding checks that charisma influences, it also sets the save DCs of the majority of a binder's offensive abilities. You're already going to be hurting somewhere, why cut your effective class features in half as well?
You could simply avoid binding Vestiges/using abilities where your Charisma would make a difference.

[Myatar_Panwar]

play something unexpected it'll be more fun

Example: Paladin! that would be funny. . .

Str: 16
Cha: 16
Con: 13
Wiz: 12
Dex: 8
Int: 4

I like this idea.

If you are going to play around with gimped scores because you can, why bother trying to find the class which would most negate them?

[Zaq]

I like this idea.

If you are going to play around with gimped scores because you can, why bother trying to find the class which would most negate them?

Because it can be fun and interesting to play a character struggling (and sometimes succeeding) to overcome his or her limitations?

[Optimystik]

The op didn't say it's not a good choice, he said he's not a fan of wild shape. Some people just don't like the class.

I can all but guarantee he'll like dying every encounter, being too dumb or impersonable to do anything but smash things, or having all the grace of a drunken cow on rollerskates even less.


Because it can be fun and interesting to play a character struggling (and sometimes succeeding) to overcome his or her limitations?

Emphasis on "overcome" which very few of the classes proposed here will actually accomplish.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Because it can be fun and interesting to play a character struggling (and sometimes succeeding) to overcome his or her limitations?

That is kind of my point...

The paladin example is a good one. You get a good personality quirk but you arn't necessarily too hampered by it.

The druid example is a bad one. Because it doesn't even matter that those low stats exist.

When I say "negate them", I mean that you are negating the cool **** that you could be doing with those low stats.

[Jallorn]

I can all but guarantee he'll like dying every encounter, being too dumb or impersonable to do anything but smash things, or having all the grace of a drunken cow on rollerskates even less.



Emphasis on "overcome" which very few of the classes proposed here will actually accomplish.

You're too tied up in the mechanics. The point is to have a mechanical disability, and struggle with and overcome it. Frankly, and don't take this the wrong way, I don't think that this thread needs your input anymore. All you're doing is extoling the wonders of the druid, which he has already said doesn't interest him. I don't say this to be mean, but this isn't your kind of thread, as far as I can tell. Your kind of thread seeks optomization, while this kind of thread just wants a colorful, challenging, but workable character. One that has a weakness, but isn't crippled by it. Sure he won't stand up to other PCs with better scores, but that's not really the goal here, now is it?

And as a disclaimer I'd like to point out the extremely likely possibility that I have misjudjed you, and would like to offer apologies if that's the case. I don't say any of this to be mean, but simply to point out that continually stating that only the druid will work, when that clearly isn't the point, is unnecesary and your time could be better spent elsewhere. I hope that I haven't offended you, and I fully admit that I am fallable as a human being.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Monk:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 16
Cha: 4

With a focus on doing what monks do best (advance scouting, setting off traps, and collecting the fallen before running away) one would only need to drop one more point into Int and the other 4 into Str (if you really insist on trying to be offensively useful) or Con (to boost your Fort save). Congrats, you are now a PC cohort. :smallsmile:

[Myatar_Panwar]

I can all but guarantee he'll like dying every encounter, being too dumb or impersonable to do anything but smash things, or having all the grace of a drunken cow on rollerskates even less.

Do you play with the OP? Games of D&D differ drastically between groups, and I don't know how you could guarantee anything unless you have experienced D&D with him.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

i agree with everyone who says that going druid is a cop-out and continue to push for a dense person with the common sense of a gerbil!

Wiz 4
Int 8

do whatever else you want with the rest, just dont be a class entirely dependant on int or wiz.

i think sorcerer would be alot of fun though.

[Tavar]

The only problem with having a mental stat of 4 is that either you're going to metagame something terrible, or be suicidal/a determent to the party. Unless it's Cha, but then you're essentially going to be a non-entity.

[Runestar]

There is also nothing stopping me from roleplaying my paladin like he has only 3 int even when he has 10int. Just as there is nothing stopping me from playing a PC with superior stats at just a fraction of his power. Thus, I agree somewhat with Optimystik in that roleplaying does not automatically negate the need for good stats. You can't roleplay if you are dead after all, and it is not the most beautifully roleplayed PC which lets you survive that red dragon's fiery breath, but hard cold stats (ie: a high reflex save to halve the damage, loads of hp to weather the beating).

So if your paladin wants to live long enough for you to have a pleasant roleplaying experience, you want him to be strong enough to take on and defeat whatever the DM throws your way.

Int is a dump stat for paladins through and through, it makes no difference whether their int is at 9 or 3, since they still get only 1 skill point/lv, and have no skills keyed off int. In this sense, I disagree with Optimystik in that the low int will have virtually no impact on the paladin, so he should be no less optimized than a paladin with say, 18 int (whether paladins are an optimal choice to begin with is another issue however).

[Boci]

The only problem with having a mental stat of 4 is that either you're going to metagame something terrible, or be suicidal/a determent to the party. Unless it's Cha, but then you're essentially going to be a non-entity.

Wisdom of 4 would be what, autistic?
Inteligence of 4 would be, just really stupid.
CHarisma of 4? I have no idea.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I can all but guarantee he'll like dying every encounter, being too dumb or impersonable to do anything but smash things, or having all the grace of a drunken cow on rollerskates even less.


*snaps fingers*
You don't know me! Mmhmm!


Well, folks, I finally decided to play a kalashtar good incarnate/psion/soul manifester, with the 16's in CON and INT. The 4 is in STR.

He's physically extremely weak, but gifted with a powerful mind, potent convictions, and a healthy soul. He binds the Strongheart Vest, to help defend him from STR draining attacks; he doesn't plan on being in the front lines regardless.

I would have made a 4 INT warforged juggernaut, but a big warforged beat stick was already submitted...

I'm frankly surprised this thread generated as much interest as it did. Thanks for the ideas, folks! CTP, signing off. Don't forget to spay and nuder your pets! And next time your roll crappy scores, try giving them a shot! (Unless you're playing Savage Tide... Paizo takes the kiddie gloves off, burns them, than slaps you with them while they're still on fire...)

[Myatar_Panwar]

Oh god savage tides was brutal.

Also Runestar, while I don't especially agree with your take on roleplaying in a way which doesn't match your stats, it did give me a relatively funny idea for that low wis/int sorcerer: He thinks he is a wizard, and pretends to be smart by only speaking when reading from a dictionary (which he also thinks of as a spell book, he reads from it and the sparkly magics come out!). I'm not sure if it is actually possible to become literate with an intelligence that low, but it would be funny to roleplay I think.

[Runestar]

This is why I use point buy. Crappy rolls just end up in stats which are of the least drawback to the character anyways. :smalltongue:

[Doc Roc]

How about roleplaying?

I would say that having a mechanical reason to never leave animal form could definitely translate into some cool RP and some great backstory. I mean, would you want to leave your bear form to go into town if your real body had been ravaged by polio shortly after birth?

RP is where you make it.

That said, how about this?
Gentlemen. It is time. Time to leverage my terrible knowledge.
Are you perchance familiar with the Sandwich trick? I can think of no better set of stats to live your life as an inanimate object! Reach out, and grab tight to the framework of the world! Exult as you adopt a more metallic form!

You can find the trick here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137447), as it sadly appears to have dropped of the web elsewhere.

[Ozymandias9]

I would say that having a mechanical reason to never leave animal form could definitely translate into some cool RP and some great backstory. I mean, would you want to leave your bear form to go into town if your real body had been ravaged by polio shortly after birth?

At the same time, how would it provide any interaction at all? He just stays in the superior form most of the time and after a while it will become more or less a non-issue. It seems an excellent back story, but only a moderate RP hook.

[Yora]

I just rolled the following scores:

16
16
13
12
8
4

What would you play with such an array?
Something with d4 hit dice and put the 4 into Con.

[Critical]

play something unexpected it'll be more fun

Example: Paladin! that would be funny. . .

Str: 16
Cha: 16
Con: 13
Wiz: 12
Dex: 8
Int: 4

LEEROOOOOOOY JEEEENKINS!

Seriously though, some sort of caster would do fine.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

i will state that i am currently IN a game that started at 1 and is now at 17-19 and our paladin started with a 4 intelligence. . . . he was basically severly mentally handicapped and we had a great moment in mid game where we put a +6 int headband on him and he had this dawning realization about everything.

the point is, it was FUN and the whole group enjoyed it and it fostered character interaction cause we had to keep stopping him from killing himself or other things. . . he was like lennie from of mice and men but fueled by the whole hearted belife that "evil bad smash evil!" and the divine power of a goddess who thought he was pretty but stupid. . . (just her type)

that was and is probably my favorite game ever because everyone was playing somthing that in some way had a significant flaw, be it stats, class, or story.

[Bharg]

LEEROOOOOOOY JEEEENKINS!

Seriously though, some sort of caster would do fine.

A caster that needs a hireling to carry his book for him. :smallwink:

[Optimystik]

And as a disclaimer I'd like to point out the extremely likely possibility that I have misjudjed you, and would like to offer apologies if that's the case. I don't say any of this to be mean, but simply to point out that continually stating that only the druid will work, when that clearly isn't the point, is unnecesary and your time could be better spent elsewhere. I hope that I haven't offended you, and I fully admit that I am fallable as a human being.

No offense taken at all :smallsmile:
And nowhere did I ever say "ONLY the druid can work." I simply said it was the best option, and still think so. A Binder for instance can make almost ANY stat array work.


Do you play with the OP? Games of D&D differ drastically between groups, and I don't know how you could guarantee anything unless you have experienced D&D with him.

Hence "all but." 'Tis a qualifier, you see.


The druid example is a bad one. Because it doesn't even matter that those low stats exist.

When I say "negate them", I mean that you are negating the cool **** that you could be doing with those low stats.

Stormwind at its finest.
Protip: You can do "cool ****" regardless of stats, especially in terms of roleplay. Please see Doc Roc's post.

[AstralFire]

There is a difference between saying that being weak creates RP and that a weakness fosters a certain kind of RP. If you are interested in playing a character who has a weakness, then yes, playing a wild shape druid and putting the stat into your physical scores does kind of negate some of those RP opportunities.

No Stormwind Fallacy here.