Natural Attacks [3.5]

[Volos]

With either a character with natural attacks, an animal companion, or wild shape; does one obtain secondary attacks with natural attacks when one's base attack bonus reaches the appropiate level? I'm fairly sure that it does not, but I was curious if there are any ways of making this possible.

[demidracolich]

Nope, it specifically says that you get only one attack per natural attack and it does not increase with your BAB. The advantage of natural attacks is that you attack at your highest attack bonus for more attacks than just with BAB. If it got other attacks it would be pretty OP.

[Greenish]

I was curious if there are any ways of making this possible.There's a feat (chain) for that in… Dragonomicon, I think?

Humanoids don't qualify for them, though.

[Boci]

There's a feat (chain) for that in… Dragonomicon, I think?

Humanoids don't qualify for them, though.

Rapid strike and improved rapid strike. You need to select it once for each natural weapon though, and you need to have more than 1, so no bite unless you're multi-headed, but you could do it for claws.

[Volos]

Alright, thanks all. Just had to make sure whether or not it would be possible for me or not.

[Greenish]

Rapid strike and improved rapid strike. You need to select it once for each natural weapon though, and you need to have more than 1, so no bite unless you're multi-headed, but you could do it for claws.Hmm, a great wyrm dragonwrought jungle kobold druid with rapid strike & imp. rapid strike on, say, claws…

How does Rapid Strike interact with Multiattack?

[KillianHawkeye]

How does Rapid Strike interact with Multiattack?

Multiattack reduces the penalty for attacking with secondary weapons. Note that the penalty for secondary weapons is completely seperate from the penalty from Rapidstrike.


Here's an example:

A dragon takes Rapidstrike for his claw attacks. Let's say his BAB is +15. His full-attack routine becomes Bite +15/Claws +10/+10/+5/+5/Wings +10/+10/Tail +10. With Multiattack it's Bite +15/Claws +13/+13/+8/+8/Wings +13/+13/Tail +13.


Hmm.... now that I think about it, the next time I put my players up against an Aspect of Tiamat, she's going to have Rapidstrike (bite). :smallamused:

[Greenish]

Multiattack reduces the penalty for attacking with secondary weapons. Note that the penalty for secondary weapons is completely seperate from the penalty from Rapidstrike.That's what I thought, cheers.
Hmm.... now that I think about it, the next time I put my players up against an Aspect of Tiamat, she's going to have Rapidstrike (bite). :smallamused:Hehe. Hmm, hydra or girallon would also be quite nasty with it. All of Girallon's four claws are a single set, I notice…

[Runestar]

I don't think rapidstrike works like that. It simply grants extra attacks if you attack with a pair of natural weapons. It does not grant iterative attacks.

So say a dragon takes rapidstrike: claws. When it makes a full attack, it gets an additional claw attack at -5 to-hit (not 2). With improved rapidstrike, it gets up to 3 extra attacks at -5/-10/-15.

Nor is this a secondary attack, so multiattack technically has no benefit, IMO.

[Greenish]

I don't think rapidstrike works like that. It simply grants extra attacks if you attack with a pair of natural weapons. It does not grant iterative attacks.

So say a dragon takes rapidstrike: claws. When it makes a full attack, it gets an additional claw attack at -5 to-hit (not 2). With improved rapidstrike, it gets up to 3 extra attacks at -5/-10/-15.Isn't that what Killian said?

Nor is this a secondary attack, so multiattack technically has no benefit, IMO.Well, it's a secondary attack if you take it for secondary attack, since it's -5 from whatever the original set had.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, if your bite is your primary, and your claws are your secondary natural attacks, and you take Rapid Strike for your claws, assuming a BAB of 15 again, you'll have:

Bite +15/ Claw +10/+10/+5/+5

if you had Multiattack, you'd have:

Bite +15/Claw +13/+13/+8/+8.

If your claws were your primary attack and your bite your secondary attack, you'd look more like:

Claw +15/+15/+10/+10 Bite +10

or, with Multiattack:

Claw +15/+15/+10/+10 Bite +13

Multiattack only affects secondary attacks. Rapidstrike only affects the "pair" of attacks you take it for. If your "paired" attack was also your secondary natural attack, you'd take the penalties for both.

[Greenish]

Multiattack only affects secondary attacks. Rapidstrike only affects the "pair" of attacks you take it for. If your "paired" attack was also your secondary natural attack, you'd take the penalties for both.Yes, that's what I was saying. If your sequence was bite15/claw10/claw10, with multiattack and rapidstrike (claws) it would be bite15/claw13/claw13/claw8/claw/8. Without multiattack you'd have bite15/claw10/claw10/claw5/claw5.

[Keld Denar]

It was a reply to Runestar, not you, and I was just expounding on what was said earlier.

[Runestar]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear either. Apologies for that.


Yea, if your bite is your primary, and your claws are your secondary natural attacks, and you take Rapid Strike for your claws, assuming a BAB of 15 again, you'll have:

Bite +15/ Claw +10/+10/+5/+5

I interpreted it to mean claw +10/+10/+5 with rapidstrike (the +5 is for the extra rapidstrike attack).

The wording of rapidstrike is a little iffy, but in particular, I am looking at this clause.


Benefit: If you have a pair of natural weapons, such as two claws, two wings, or two slams, you can make one extra attack with one of those weapons at a –5 penalty.

Notice that it says "one" of your natural weapons, not each of them. So even in the case of a hydra with rapidstrike, it gets just 1 extra attack despite having 12 heads, not 12 extra attacks.