DM Needs an Edge

[redzimmer]

I a have level 11 rogue with a pair of quickened melee weapons which rips up my monster, and he has an insane amount of Touch AC (I think I was too generous).

Can you recommend some CR 12-14 foes to put the fear of the gods into him?

[Private-Prinny]

I forget where they're from, but I've heard that a swarm of Clockwork Adamantine Horrors is pretty damn scary for a mid-level party.

[Gamerlord]

I forget where they're from, but I've heard that a swarm of Clockwork Adamantine Horrors is pretty damn scary for a mid-level party.

They are also TPKs, straight from TPK creations incorporated.

[Runestar]

If your rogue is relying on TWFing+sneak attack for the bulk of his damage output (not sure what you mean by quickened melee weapons), you can throw monsters with a modest amount of dr. Some fortification may be useful (I don't recommend negating all of it; it is just no fun to the rogue).

Maybe some ability which punishes the attacker for hitting you, such as a barbed devil. Unholy blight targets what should be a weak fort save. I am not sure how good the rogue's touch AC is, but the barbed devil should still be able to hit reliably with scorching rays (swap out one of its feats for quicken SLA).

[Flickerdart]

Throw Undead at him, any Undead. They are completely immune to Sneak Attack, and typically have modest DR to boot. With these two factors his damage will be practically shut down (DR 5/bludgeoning will nullify the base damage on anything smaller than a d10 weapon over half the time, so regardless of how many attacks he gets, he'll do very little).

[AslanCross]

I forget where they're from, but I've heard that a swarm of Clockwork Adamantine Horrors is pretty damn scary for a mid-level party.

A single adamantine horror can obliterate an entire party's magical support. It's not for playing fair. It's got Disintegrate, Implosion and Mordenkainen's Disjunction at will. :smalleek:

I suggest a couple of clay golems or an elder black pudding or two. Deny him his sneak attack advantage.

Use terrain to obstruct the path so the Rogue has a hard time getting close. Put a Glabrezu on top of a crag in the middle of a vast cavern with a gravel-covered floor. The noisy gravel penalizes Move Silently and keeps his footing loose. Once the Glabrezu detects him, hit him with Reverse Gravity and send him slamming into the ceiling---the spell only grants a Reflex save if there are nearby handholds. Next turn, dismiss the spell (free action) and use it again. (Glabrezu get Reverse Gravity as an at-will)

What's a "quickened" weapon anyway? I only know of quickened spells.

[shadow_archmagi]

What's a "quickened" weapon anyway? I only know of quickened spells.

I'm guessing he means the Speed enchantment. It's a +3 bonus that gives an extra attack at full BAB, if I recall correctly.


On that note, how to invalidate rogues:

1. High AC. If the rogue is making lots of attacks then he's doing it at a penalty.

2. Damage Reduction. "I attack ten times, deal ten damage each time" is a hundred damage per round, yes, but with DR5 that gets cut in half. This also has the bonus of not affecting the non-spam party members.

3. No anatomy. Take away his precious sneak attack. Oozes, golems, zombies, ghosts, trees, factories....

[Ernir]

Is this D&D 3.5?

[redzimmer]

"Of Speed" I meat to say. Yes, 3.5 ed.

DR is a good idea. Is there an FR book with stats for those dwoemer-eating undead from Ed Greenwood's Death of the Dragon?

[Doc Roc]

I can open up the ToS archives to you, if you want. We keep every single char made for the arena, and they're all ECL 13. In exchange, I'd like help reviewing sheets. I think it's a good deal. :)

[Aneantir]

I can open up the ToS archives to you, if you want. We keep every single char made for the arena, and they're all ECL 13. In exchange, I'd like help reviewing sheets. I think it's a good deal. :)

Is this an open offer, or just to the OP? :smalltongue: Not gonna lie, I'd heavily consider it.

[gallagher]

throw a few psionic warriors against them. have them use concealing amorphas. they are now considered having cover (20% or 50% if using the greater version) and are thus immune to sneak attacks.

now have them use psionic lions pounce. they can now charge and do a full attack. flanking also will help

use weapons with good crit range, and have them have improved crit on it.

cast inertial armor, the force armor adds well.

pump your damage. you will have alot of powers that will be able to do that

now you can deal good good good damage

[true_shinken]

A Warlock with darkness and devil's sight is also an alternative. He casts darkness on his shirt or his weapon and walks around with devil's sight on, so anyone attacking him gets 20% miss chance (and no sneak attacks) and he gets no penalties. Since it's a low level strategy, you could even throw a group of Warlock as cannon-fodder against him.

[Doc Roc]

Is this an open offer, or just to the OP? :smalltongue: Not gonna lie, I'd heavily consider it.

It is an open offer for the next week or so.

[Wings of Peace]

I'd take the offer. ToS has a pretty strong group of character builders. If you're looking for data you'll find it there.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

undead advanced rust mosnters (like 5 or 6 of them). . . they eat his shiny magic weapons and dont care about sneak attack. now heas a weaponless rogue who cant sneak attack and they dont get tired so this might take a while but eventualy the'll roll high and hit him

[Doc Roc]

Most undead lose their special abilities, actually, I think... Or at least their int. Rust monsters aren't hard to cope with really, as long as you can keep them at range. Beyond that, they're really just an unpleasant gesture from the GM.

[Zaq]

Don't throw thing at him that he can't touch. That's not fun for the player. I agree that you need to challenge him, but throwing a bunch of no-SA-allowed things at him isn't "challenging" him so much as saying "ha ha you can't play."

Instead, throw a bunch of things at the party. Spread them out so that he can't get to more than one a round. He'll put one thing in the Blendtec per round, sure, but all its friends will be beating on him (and on the rest of the party) the whole time, so there's other considerations than just "ok, who do I annihilate this turn?"

[Os1ris09]

What is the ToS archive?

[Claudius Maximus]

The archive of most characters used in the Test of Spite (see my and Doc Roc's sigs).

It's actually not complete, since some people never submit some of the characters they use in exhibition matches.

[lsfreak]

Make sneak attacking difficult. If she relies on invisibility, people with see invisibility. If she relies on flanking, bring in chain trippers that make it hard for either her or her allies to get into position. If she doesn't have pounce/shadowpounce, hit-and-runners so that she only gets one or two attacks a round.

Note that these hit all melee, it'll simply hurt her the most.

That said, you're starting to get to the point of the game where monsters generally last one round once they've been targeted. They should be torn to pieces. It's just the way the game is built. You can compensate by adding more monsters (single encounters are much easier than group, thanks to focus-fire), adding hit dice (which tends to up toughness, without upping offense), adding ways for the monster to bend the action economy in their favor (SoL on the party, pick off those left unaffected), or simply ad-hocing defenses (he's a sentient fire elemental, so it makes sense that he as 20% miss chance from the heat pouring off him).

[Death Monkee]

You need to think like an Evil DM, and get the other players to do your dirty work.

Three goblin Jumper/Rogue/Stonedeath Assassin/Assassins.
Total ECL is 8. Jumper is homebrew from dandwiki.com, stonedeath assassin is from the races of stone book.

They can teleport 20ft as swift action. And have two death attacks, which stack. One death attack petrifies, the other kills or paralyzes. They can also meld with stone as a move action which lasts for a couple of rounds.

So you now have something that can meld into stone and lie in wait until the rogue is over it. Once he is over it the goblins then teleport behind him, double death attack! If he is petrified they then move INTO him. So the party is faced with the threat of a goblin they can't kill without killing the rogue.

From the time you use them the party will run in fear every time they see a goblin. The scary thing is is that this is a PC build. Don't tell them this!! I told my players this and they figured out how it worked. Now I have a goblin death squad going through all my monsters......blast.

[redzimmer]

It is an open offer for the next week or so.

I'd be delighted to partake in this offer.