An intelligent Empire

[Adamaro]

I am sure you have read/seen lots of books/plots, where The Emperor is familiarized with a credible prophecy regarding downfall of him and his Empire. In most books and fantasy books, the Empire acts totally stupidly.

So, let's say our Emperor is presented with following prophecy:
- Empire will find an island. Upon this island, there is a creature under the guise of man. This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone that enables crops to grow (in sufficient amount), armies to travel great distances instantly and to prevent environmental disasters, thus, the backbone of an Empire.

What would a smart Emperor (or his councellors do?)

[kamikasei]

This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone...

First off, what information does the Emperor have on the mutability of this prophecy? What he does to prevent this if it can be prevented, subvert it if it can be subverted, or mitigate it if it has to come to pass, are all different things.

[For Valor]

I am sure you have read/seen lots of books/plots, where The Emperor is familiarized with a credible prophecy regarding downfall of him and his Empire. In most books and fantasy books, the Empire acts totally stupidly.

So, let's say our Emperor is presented with following prophecy:
- Empire will find an island. Upon this island, there is a creature under the guise of man. This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone that enables crops to grow (in sufficient amount), armies to travel great distances instantly and to prevent environmental disasters, thus, the backbone of an Empire.

What would a smart Emperor (or his councellors do?)

Shut down all ports and send only a few, select vessels out for exploration/export purposes.

The the emperor's a nice guy: They won't let any of the inhabitants come onto their ships, and will kill stowaways.

The emperor's a bad guy: They'll kill everyone on the island and then take any resources they find and leave.

Honestly, the whole thing would just be a big round of xenophobia until the emperor calmed down, assured himself that he couldn't be killed or rooted out of power, and then everything would return to normal (perfect for said creature to sneak in and kill him). So, at most, a decade of non-contact with anyone outside of the empire or until something big happens (like war).

[Riffington]

Appoint someone else as Emperor, leaving yourself as his "Prime Minister". Guard him heavily, in a secure (and trapped) location.
Move the stone away from the center of the Empire.
Put a fake stone (and a trap) there instead.
Build and fill some granaries.

[Ravens_cry]

How accurate do prophesies tend to be in this world?
Are they controvertible? Or do they happen no matter what?
Because if they are, a smart Emperor would get his best engineers and mages to redirect the flow of a river or two increase the depth of the lake until the island is covered. A flooded island is not an island, but an underground mountain.
EDIT: this wouldn't work if it is in an ocean. For some reason I pictured it as a small island in the middle of a lake.

[Adamaro]

@kamikasei
Prophecy stands and is true.

I totally LOVE the solution of puppet-emperor, also fake stones :smallbiggrin:

I also thought of bombardment of island untill nothing remains.

[Jack_Simth]

I am sure you have read/seen lots of books/plots, where The Emperor is familiarized with a credible prophecy regarding downfall of him and his Empire. In most books and fantasy books, the Empire acts totally stupidly.

So, let's say our Emperor is presented with following prophecy:
- Empire will find an island. Upon this island, there is a creature under the guise of man. This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone that enables crops to grow (in sufficient amount), armies to travel great distances instantly and to prevent environmental disasters, thus, the backbone of an Empire.

What would a smart Emperor (or his councellors do?)
Depends: How certain is the prophecy? Assuming it's certain:

If you know a famine is coming, you can deal with it: Storehouses of food, increased focus on cropland, and so on.

If you know your military is going to have a harder time getting around, you can deal with that, too: More soldiers, more fortresses, more vehicles, and such.

If you know environmental disasters will be coming, you can plan for those as well: Stock up on people who know how to deal with them, stock up on reserves for when they happen. Then ride them out.

All honest emperors know they're mortal, and will eventually perish. You deal with this by locating (or breeding) and then training a suitable successor.

AKA, make it so that it doesn't hurt the empire overly much if the prophecy comes to fulfillment in every particular, even using fairly bad interpretations of said prophecy. And, as it's "Find an island", you can cut off explorations for a few years while you get this set up to control the date a bit.

If the prophecy is mutable, then find a way to change it. Que the adventurers (PC's).

[Cog]

Shut down all ports and send only a few, select vessels out for exploration/export purposes.

This creature is actually from within the empire He goes out on an expedition, and when he's on the island, he finds the McGuffin he needs to take the Emperor down...

There doesn't even need to be a McGuffin for accuracy, but it does make the prophecy more relevant.

[Binks]

Put a fake stone (and a trap) there instead.
Build and fill some granaries.

Better yet, get your best magic users to work on building a far less powerful magic stone (or stones) with similar magical effects and put that in the center of your empire, with the real stone hidden away. The prophecy comes to be, the individual kills the emperor (leaving the Prime Minister to step up, that's an awesome idea) and destroys the stone (leaving the 'backup' more powerful stone to be brought forth).

Trying to 'fight fate' by killing the individual before they can accomplish their goal will almost certainly not work, and probably make things worse. Working around the prophecy is probably your best bet, arranging things so that you and your empire won't be badly damaged by the prophecy's fulfillment.

[Asheram]

Well, most of the classic prophecies are self-fullfilling, which means that if you take aggressive action it's usually the cause of the coming events.

Myself, if I were the emperor, I'd elect someone else emperor and be the man behind the throne instead. Also, I'd make sure to make a copy of the artefact if it's possible... or even make a lesser version just so that there is something that can be destroyed.

A true prophecy can't be avoided, just diverted.

[Coidzor]

Squirrel away a force to A. prepare themselves to set things right when/if SHTF-level of bad times manages to happen despite damage control procedures and B. train a new force to do it if it's going to be awhile. If possible, squirrel away the real artifact with them and have it replaced with a convincing forgery or simply come up with a good cover story involving increased security after spotting Kender within the Empire's border or sommat.

Figure out if the Emperor that will die is the one sitting at the time of the prophecy or the one sitting at the time of the island. Get a couple of tombs prepared for the middling case scenario of death but not destruction of the empire.

Ensure the line of succession/parliamentary procedure is clear in case of any convoluted snafus involving heirs to discourage any generals from trying to pull a warlord in the aftermath.

Do what's possible to rig it up so that the creature responsible for the destruction of the Orb of the Empire is struck down by enough retributive magic and force of arms and traps that nothing short of a deity would survive. If possible, ensure that a deity would not want to manifest to destroy it due to the consequences.

This basically being a means by which to ensure that the BAMF who does all this doesn't get to rule over the ruins of the empire or stick around to stymie one's plans to fix things for longer than is strictly necessary.

[Kaun]

I would just rename myself high king and work at finding another source of power besides the stone.

If you can defend it, bonus!

If you cant, eh life goes on.

[Yukitsu]

Learn better agriculture, so you don't need the magic mcguffin to live.

Alternatively, PAO everyone in empire into elves, kill anything that looks human not in evil elvish empire.

Assuming you mean this Emperor in particular, and not just any emperor, name a new heir apparant, and start conquering things in an incredibly reckless, lead from the front manner. You can kill entire enemy armies by yourself, because you will only be killed by the whats his name. Pick on anyone with good agriculture.

[Eldan]

Well, if the prophecy is word-for-word and immutable, start working around it.
Appoint someone else as emperor, as noted. Make emperor a purely ceremonial rank, call yourself Minister, or Vezir, or Chancellor.
Build a second stone with the same magic, put it somewhere else. Alternatively, find a different trade network, secure food resources.

Thta should take care of it.

If the prophecy is mutable, try to talk to the creature. If it is heroic, explain to it how many would die if the stone was destroyed. If it's evil, try to hire it.

[awa]

Hes got a hard time because depending on how literal this prophecy is and so it could be unwinable. Who says the emperor killed is the literal emperor and not the true power behind the throne who says only the emperor gets killed. On the other hand theirs no time mentioned in this prophecy unless are man immortal maybe its referring to his hundredth descendant and not him prophecy are tricky like that.

edit if the magic stone were easy to replicate then this would not be a big deal im imagining some kind of artifact difficult or impossible to make a spare.

[Ormur]

In a world where prophecies are known to be fulfilled often, being smart probably means being genre-sawy. The genre-sawy emperor will prevent the prophecy from being well known (kill the prophet, burn the document, whatever) and then promptly do nothing to prevent it from happening. If it's true whatever you'll do will just contribute to it's fulfilment. Ordering nobody to find islands will just ensure some curious adventurers will find it. Messing violently with the island will probably be what causes the creature to decide to kill the emperor.

If the prophecy isn't generally known some creature randomly popping up, killing the emperor and destroying the crops won't make a dramatic tale about the hubris of emperors and their inability to tamper with fate (damn that's an annoying moral), just an anticlimactic end to a stable empire. The dramatic equivalent to a random encounter, I.E. not plot relevant and thus unlikely be of consequence.

Just to be sure if prophecies are a very big deal you might reorganize the empire as a "republic" or get a puppet emperor just to be safe. Then try to build up redundancies and survival scenarios for certain powerful magic items being destroyed. Can things be made to work with many lesser magic items, are there other more mundane ways to increase crop yields, prevent natural disasters and transport armies. Be prepared with plans for such things happening, strategic withdrawals and greater decentralization if worst comes to worst. It might even be a good thing in response to other threats.

[Coidzor]

Then try to build up redundancies and survival scenarios for certain powerful magic items being destroyed. Can things be made to work with many lesser magic items, are there other more mundane ways to increase crop yields, prevent natural disasters and transport armies. Be prepared with plans for such things happening, strategic withdrawals and greater decentralization if worst comes to worst. It might even be a good thing in response to other threats.

Which is really stuff that should already have been looked into a fair bit, as anyone out for your empire is going to want to take out this artifact that gives you such a boost that you're dependent upon the surplus food for survival/prosperity AND militarily dependent upon its logistical support capabilities.

[AslanCross]

If the Emperor is truly smart, he'd already have been using body doubles, like Amaterasu from Five Star Stories.

Amaterasu, of course, has the added bonus of looking like a woman, so his body double is typically a woman.

Of course, this depends on the mutability of the prophecy. If the prophecy is hard and fast, one might end up with an Ahab-Jehoshaphat scenario.

King Ahab wanted to avoid death, so he wore an ordinary soldier's uniform in battle while he had his "ally" King Jehoshaphat wear his royal robes to the battle.

Jehoshaphat was targeted by enemy archers at first, but they recognized it wasn't him when he yelled. However, someone randomly fired an arrow into the air and mortally wounded Ahab.

[Safety Sword]

I am sure you have read/seen lots of books/plots, where The Emperor is familiarized with a credible prophecy regarding downfall of him and his Empire. In most books and fantasy books, the Empire acts totally stupidly.

So, let's say our Emperor is presented with following prophecy:
- Empire will find an island. Upon this island, there is a creature under the guise of man. This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone that enables crops to grow (in sufficient amount), armies to travel great distances instantly and to prevent environmental disasters, thus, the backbone of an Empire.

What would a smart Emperor (or his councellors do?)

First thing Mr. Emperor is going to do is get his Wizards and explorers out there trying to identify and track the "creature". Then comes the probing and finding weakness. Then comes the killing.

Of course, setting up a standing guard and trapping the magical stone needs to be done too.

A few people have suggested that the emperor should step down and replace himself. Honestly, that probably won't work, as the title, not the man has the power. Once you give it up, the replacement is free to make decisions that may go contrary to what you want and you really can't stop them. They control the army. Many times this is a hereditary position too, so doing this only endangers your own family... might be OK if you're of the Lawful Evil persuasion...

[Fortuna]

The whole thing depends heavily on the nature of prophecy in this world.

If prophecy is immutable to the spirit and the letter, then tell your people, advise them to leave that they might be spared and be remembered as the man who saved his people over his dignity.

If prophecy is immutable to the letter, then there are several good suggestions already. Step down as emperor, ensure that supplies are available, get the military ready, produce another "magic stone", all very good ideas.

If prophecy can be changed... stick to what I just said, mainly because prophecy tends to be an unpredictable little bugger.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Your seer is probably a cleric or wizard. Get them to divine more information about this prophecy, such as the location of the island, who the creature is, and how it does everything it will do. The more you know about the immutable future, the more you can do to divert the negative consequences.

[Binks]

Assuming you mean this Emperor in particular, and not just any emperor, name a new heir apparant, and start conquering things in an incredibly reckless, lead from the front manner. You can kill entire enemy armies by yourself, because you will only be killed by the whats his name. Pick on anyone with good agriculture.

That's awesome. Cut exploration (so you don't find the island for a while ideally) and take advantage of your new pseudo-immortality to make the empire not dependent on the artifact.

That would certainly make for an interesting campaign too, with a BBEG who the PCs literally can't kill, because he's prophesied to die by another's hand. Make the adventure about finding the prophecy, then finding the island rather than directly defeating the BBEG.

[Lysander]

First, keep the prophecy a secret so people don't panic.

Then plan for three possible scenarios:

1) The Prophecy Is False

Perhaps it isn't true. Maybe the prophet had an off day. Don't get so focused on this prophecy that you ignore the normal business of running your empire.

2) The Prophecy is True, But Can Be Averted

Take reasonable steps to prevent the prophecy, and try not to inadvertently cause it. There are a few sensible preventative measures.

2a) "Island" - Cutting off all ocean travel and exploration might cause civil unrest, and will probably cripple your empire militarily and economically. Instead require ships to keep logs of where they travel and keep logs of all passengers. Subtly increase funding to port security and coastal patrols. Require that all newly found islands be reported immediately. Let's face it though, this one is pretty hard to plan for. Besides, what if it isn't a literal island in the middle of the ocean, but a metaphor for something? Don't get too hung up on blocking the ocean.

2b) "Guise of man" - Have your scholars research creatures that shapeshift or are skilled at disguise, and suggest modes of detecting them. Require that guards use a password system to enter secure areas, not just facial recognition. Again this is vague and not worth getting hung up on. What if "guise of man" just means a girl wearing a hood?

2c) "Centre of the empire" - This again might be figurative rather than literal. It's not worth moving your capitol even if it does happen to be in the center of the empire. I suggest just having security patrols and checkpoints along the roads to your capitol, and at the gates to the city.

2d) "Kill the emperor" - Take reasonable steps to protect yourself. Make sure the entrances to your palace are secure, have bodyguards, have body double decoys. Have a secret bedroom. Have a poison taster. Ask your magicians (if any) to think of defensive spells. Practice combat techniques so you can defend yourself if necessary. If the prophecy is stunningly literal it wouldn't hurt to get a pet poodle and name it "the emperor" just in case that would work (probably not though but can't hurt). Along the same vein, maybe think of a new title for yourself instead of emperor. "High King" has a nice ring to it.

2e) "destroy the magic stone" - Basically the same steps to protect yourself. Guards, decoy stones, magical defenses.

3) The Prophecy (or parts of the prophecy) cannot be averted

Plan for the worst.

3a) Stockpile food. So if disaster strikes and the crops decline, at least you buy the empire a bit of time.

3b) Designate a worthy heir. If you die, at least your empire is in good hands.

3c) Figure out alternate ways to increase your food supply so you don't need the stone. Research better farming techniques. See if you can create another magic stone as a backup. See if you can acquire food through trade with other nations. This one is probably not going to happen though. Plot central items like the "Magic Stone" are not meant to be replaceable.

3d) Plan for the collapse of your empire. If your empire must fall, try to figure out how to make what's left as intact and pleasant as possible. Try to prevent total anarchy

3e) Work on your legacy. Do kind deeds so if you're killed, at least you're remembered fondly.

[Draz74]

If the prophecy is inevitable, no point in worrying about it.

If it's not inevitable (is "evitable" a word?), then trying to prevent it will only make things worse, according to the laws of dramatic irony.

In short, the best course of action is precisely what Dumbledore advises in the case of prophecies: ignore them completely.

[lsfreak]

Set up contingencies so that, when the hero succeeds, the Empire has all the more reason to stay together. The people rise up to fight this so-called 'hero,' who doomed an entire nation to starvation. Set up heroes of the empire who are pre-planned to rally the people beneath him. When the smuck hero is torn to shreds by the hundreds of thousands of outraged peasants, the chancellors cast resurrection on the emperor and things go back to normal.

Part of the problem with fantasy empires is they tend to be Stupid Evil. They're overly, facepalmingly overt about it. If an evil empire is doing well, no one within it will have any idea that they live in an evil empire.

[Lamech]

One, the emperor probably has a bunch of ceremonial duties and stuff, in addition to the being powerful and ruling; the emperor probably also has his own palace and possibly a harem or something. Well we're gonna separate those things the emperor will selflessly give up his shiny palace and give that to a new emperor along with his ceremonial duties, and simply keep all the power and decision making, to better help focus on runing the country.

Two, your precious stone will get destroyed. But all it has to be able to do is make food, prevent disasters and move armies. Presumably your mages can't replicate this kind of power. But can they make a stone that sends messages? Or simply controls the first stone? Move the first stone to a safe place and have the new stone give orders to the first. Also make the first stone far enough away that if the second is lost the Empire will be unable to make use of the first for a bit. Now both stones allow for the crops, movement of armies and protection from disasters.

Now the Emperor will be killed. No one cares. A stone will be shattered; we just need to make sure that it is the second stone that is broke somehow. Probably by giving the first better security and telling everyone that the second is the "first".

Finally, we need contigencies in case the first stone is destroyed. Stockpile food, get ready for disasters, build road, get a bigger army.


Simple version:
1) Give someone a ceremonial title of Emperor.
2) Make a stone that sends commands to the first. That way both stones are needed to do all the cool stuff, and if either break the prophecy is fulfilled.
3) Attempt to make sure the second is broken since it can be replaced.
4) Plan for contingencies, if the first stone is lost.

[LibraryOgre]

My children, latest born to Cadmus old,
Why sit ye here as suppliants, in your hands
Branches of olive filleted with wool?
What means this reek of incense everywhere,
And everywhere laments and litanies?

If it is a true prophecy, you cannot get around it. The Emperor will die, the stone will be destroyed. Thus, the Emperor needs to plan for what comes next, in addition to doing what is possible to stop the prophecy.

Can the stone be duplicated? Can his life-force be preserved and brought back? Are there conditions on the prophecy, or counter-prophecies that will allow the other prophecy to be stopped?

[aje8]

Here's some ways to subvert/prepare for it aside from those already suggested:
-Charge out and fight personally against all opponents, until the island is found, then fight all non-human looking opponents, similair to what someone else suggested (You need to be killed by the creature in human guise. Thus, until this island is found, you will not die. Additionally, you auto-win versus things not in human guise. )

-Destroy the stone yourself (If this works, then the prophecy must be false because the creature cannot destroy the already destroyed stone. You've just saved your own life)

-If this is DnD or another system where ressurrection is possible, write in your will you'd like your fortune to be spent towards reviving you. You die, you're back viola. Better yet, have your wizards rig up a spell to auto-revive you upon your death.

-See if you can't transfer the magic of the stone into something else. The creature is destined to destroy the "Magic Stone". If there is no magic stone, just a regular boring stone and a magic cup, then either the prophecy is false, or it's true but your kingdom can keep it's uber-powerful magic artifact past your death, because the creature will destroy the non-magic stone.

-Eliminate the geographic center of the empire. True it might be metaphorical, but it's worth a try. Have your best accountants calculate the geogrpahic center and then have your best wizards make a literal empty hole in the center of your empire and ~1 mile in all directions.

-Genocide. If you kill all the humans, anything in human guise is gonna be really, really obvious. Only do this if you're really evil and really sure this will work.

-Mass Shape-Shifting Magic: Have a really poweful spell over the entire country that turns everyone into, say, elves. This prevents anything from being in human guise. No creature in humkan guioise->prophecy cannot come true.

[Yora]

So, let's say our Emperor is presented with following prophecy:
- Empire will find an island. Upon this island, there is a creature under the guise of man. This creature will travel to the centre of the Empire, kill the Emperor, and destroy the Magic stone that enables crops to grow (in sufficient amount), armies to travel great distances instantly and to prevent environmental disasters, thus, the backbone of an Empire.

What would a smart Emperor (or his councellors do?)
"Damn, I will die by the hand of another man and not from all age. But I guess it can not be helped. But I'm not dead yet and there is still some time to create a new infrastructure to provide my people with food and decure the country against enemies. Also I have to restructure the administration so disasters can be better dealt with without completely disrupting the daily life of the entiry country."

Trying something to not make the prophecy come true is futile. If I am an emperor and rule over a fantastic realm, then every prophecy will come true no matter what people try, and it mostly would make the eventual outcome worse.

[Randel]

1). Work on backup systems in case the magic stone is ever destroyed. Better agricultural techniques, better transportation, and other things to protect people in the event of environmental disasters. So, your Empire doesn't really need the stone to function.

2). Have a cleric on hand with Raise Dead handy or some other method of bringing you back to life in case you die. Sure, the monster kills you but if you are back up and kicking the next day then its not the end of the world.

3). Be as nice to everyone as is deemed intelligent so that everyone thinks of you as the good guy. If some creature in the guise of a man is out to kill you then history will declare them as the bad guy.

4). Make sure you have an heir to take over in case you die, and that they are comfortable and loyal and aren't the one setting this stuff up to kill you.

5). If you want to go the undead route then Lichdom is always an option. Just don't make the magic stone your phylactery. Or better yet, become a Lich so you can spend your time studying super arcane secrets that would let you do even more stuff and have someone else take the job of Emperor.

Lich: After my transformation, I have seen the world in a new light. I cannot hope to rule the living in a fair way like this. Instead, my daughter, I shall give the throne to you.

Daughter (now Empress): Me? You have made me the Emperor? I am honored, not that I am surprised or anything. After all I am the only one good enough to...

Lich: Haha, yes. Empress of the Dark Empire, you may have the throne. I shall not need as I now appoint myself Supreme Arcane Lord of Life and Death! MwaHahahaha! *lets out an evil laugh as he reaches to the sky and lightning arcs from his fingertips*

(kind of like what Fire Lord Ozai does to Azula in Avatar Last Airbender)

Then work on your arcane powers so that you can take over other planes of existence.

[Set]

Well, most of the classic prophecies are self-fullfilling, which means that if you take aggressive action it's usually the cause of the coming events.

Yeah, this is the obvious trap, attacking the island and attempting to avert the prophecy by killing everyone, and thus pissing off the lone survivor, who ends up being the 'hero' who kills the insane emperor that slaughtered his people.

The immediate crisis is the loss of the stone of "why the hell is my entire kingdom dependent on this McGuffin? what was I thinking?" Find a way to duplicate it or live without it, even if that means your imperial land of milk and honey has to endure a few leans years while the graineries are stocked up, the local wizards research weather control magics and crop-accelerating spells and ways of transporting troops around, etc.

During this time, you could appoint another Emperor, and let him get snuffed, or transform yourself into something that can survive being 'killed,' like a lich, vampire or disembodied spirit using magic jar to inhabit some schmuck.

Inevitable hero shows up, destroys the stone (which you no longer need, and have quite possibly drained of a lot of it's power anyway, building the new non-stone-dependent means of feeding and managing your empire) and kills the emperor. Yay. Three nights later, you're in a new body, or arisen again by some means (perhaps as simple as a wish-fueled crafted contingent resurrection!), and can get on with business.

While you're at it, lay down some nasty curses on whoever breaks the stone or kills the emperor. "The stone brings life from barren fields, and allows the freedom of transport throughout the lands. Let he who destroys it be drained of life and imprisoned forever, bound to replace the stone with his own vital energies..."

"Ow. You stabbed me! Oh, I'm dying now. Do you feel it? The surging in your veins? The pressure behind your eyes? That's me. Do you feel the blade in your chest? That's you. I have been forced to make many unpopular choices, denying my people the advantages of the stone and forcing them to prepare against the day they could no longer count on it's blessings. Some even call me tyrant, because of the taxes and food seizures and land redistribution. Some will cheer my death, at your blade, and lift you up and call you the hero, come to save them from my last days of madness. But since the transfer completes with my death, my soul, into your body, you won't be there to be crowned, oh killer of kings..."

<'Hero' pulls out sword and flexes his arm.>

"I must thank you for keeping in such excellent shape. My wives will be most grateful to have such a young husband, again."

[Lamech]

Trying something to not make the prophecy come true is futile. If I am an emperor and rule over a fantastic realm, then every prophecy will come true no matter what people try, and it mostly would make the eventual outcome worse.
YOU don't have to be the "emperor" the stone doesn't have to be the uber-artifact. Get replacements make sure they are the ones destroyed. The prophecy is still true, just not what was obvious; a standard rules of drama as Elan would say.