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View Full Version : [3.5] Changelings and AMF's



Choco
2010-05-30, 07:51 PM
So yeah, a shapechanged changeling enters an AMF, what exactly happens? The way I read it, the act of changing shape itself is the SU ability and once it is complete then you are in your new form (unlike alter self which is an illusion and the various polymorph/wildshape-ish spells that are, well, spells with durations and such). So the way I read it, a Changeling entering an AMF while shapechanged would not automatically revert back to his original form, but would be unable to change shape as long as he remains in the field.

Any thoughts/arguments?

Jallorn
2010-05-30, 07:54 PM
Well true seeing can see through the illusion... so I dunno.

Choco
2010-05-30, 07:55 PM
Well true seeing can see through the illusion... so I dunno.

True Seeing sees things as they really are, but the changeling's shapechange specifies that it is NOT an illusion, but actual physical alterations. That is the big point for me.

EDIT: I guess kind of like an instantaneous duration spell is how I see it, the effect is created but the "magic" used to create it is gone. Kinda like orbs...

gallagher
2010-05-30, 07:59 PM
they will probably not be able to shapechange once they are inside the AMF, but what happens before you go in the field resolves before the field.

DragoonWraith
2010-05-30, 08:04 PM
Minor Shapechange (Su) - supernatural abilities are suppressed in an AMF. She reverts to her natural form, the pale, vaguely humanoid sort of faceless thing.

Optimystik
2010-05-30, 08:07 PM
As DW mentioned, he would end up looking like this:

http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/82973.jpg&origin=dnd_ag_20040903a

Heliomance
2010-05-30, 08:09 PM
Alter Self isn't an illusion, it's a transmutation. You really change.

lvl 1 sharnian
2010-05-30, 08:16 PM
As DW mentioned, he would end up looking like this:

http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=/dnd/images/mmiii_gallery/82973.jpg&origin=dnd_ag_20040903a

I prefer the Recaster image better; looks less they're dying of the plague

Choco
2010-05-30, 08:18 PM
Minor Shapechange (Su) - supernatural abilities are suppressed in an AMF. She reverts to her natural form, the pale, vaguely humanoid sort of faceless thing.

Yes, and the supernatural ability is the ability to change shape itself, not maintaining a new form. I still think it acts like an instantaneous duration spell, the effect fires off and is done.

Alter Self is cancelled out because it is a spell with a duration, same with Polymorph.

Also, my bad, guess Alter Self IS a transmutation...

AslanCross
2010-05-30, 08:36 PM
Yes, and the supernatural ability is the ability to change shape itself, not maintaining a new form. I still think it acts like an instantaneous duration spell, the effect fires off and is done.

If that were the case, there would be two separate abilities: Minor Shapechange (Su) and Maintain Other Form (Ex). There is no such distinction by RAW. Changing form and maintaining it are one and the same ability. Antimagic Field suppresses any magical effect and does not make a distinction between timed spells and instantaneous spells like Dispel Magic does.

By RAW, a changeling reverts to his or her natural form inside the AMF, then resumes the changed form when he or she exits the field.

DragoonWraith
2010-05-30, 09:17 PM
Considering that she reverts to natural form upon death, it seems pretty clear to me that the Changeling needs to be supernaturally maintaining the transformation, or she reverts.

Choco
2010-05-31, 09:19 AM
Considering that she reverts to natural form upon death, it seems pretty clear to me that the Changeling needs to be supernaturally maintaining the transformation, or she reverts.

Ah, that is a good point, I have officially had some sense beaten into me, thanks y'all!

Zom B
2010-05-31, 09:54 AM
Just wondering aloud here, that'd make a neat skill trick or feat or something, being able to shapechange as an (Ex) ability. I don't see it being particularly game-breaking, just an extra layer of disguise protection should a potential infiltration target using AMFs in a world full of shapechangers to weed out impostors.

Jack_Simth
2010-05-31, 10:14 AM
Just wondering aloud here, that'd make a neat skill trick or feat or something, being able to shapechange as an (Ex) ability. I don't see it being particularly game-breaking, just an extra layer of disguise protection should a potential infiltration target using AMFs in a world full of shapechangers to weed out impostors.

There is a changling-specific feat that, after a certain period of time of no shapeshifting, makes the current form count as your natural form (at least for purposes of True Seeing and the like). Can't quite remember what it's called, though....

DragoonWraith
2010-05-31, 10:18 AM
There is a changling-specific feat that, after a certain period of time of no shapeshifting, makes the current form count as your natural form (at least for purposes of True Seeing and the like). Can't quite remember what it's called, though....
Holy crap, a Wizards' Feat that's simple, useful, elegant, and neatly avoids abuse? Well, this is the same campaign setting that gave us Tashalatora.

Lysander
2010-05-31, 10:47 AM
Just wondering aloud here, that'd make a neat skill trick or feat or something, being able to shapechange as an (Ex) ability. I don't see it being particularly game-breaking, just an extra layer of disguise protection should a potential infiltration target using AMFs in a world full of shapechangers to weed out impostors.

A changeling could theoretically use the disguise skill on top of their changeling power. Of course it means they can't change from that shape to another without taking time to manually change their mundane disguise.

Besides, unless you're taking a risk impersonating people at the highest echelons of power a wizard capable of casting AMFs would be exceedingly rare.

Optimystik
2010-05-31, 11:50 AM
Holy crap, a Wizards' Feat that's simple, useful, elegant, and neatly avoids abuse? Well, this is the same campaign setting that gave us Tashalatora.

It also gave us Planar Shepherd :smalltongue: So yeah.


A changeling could theoretically use the disguise skill on top of their changeling power. Of course it means they can't change from that shape to another without taking time to manually change their mundane disguise.

Indeed, and the minor shapechange ability gives a bonus to disguise checks - implying that actual disguise must still be involved in the process. So there is already a non-magical way to hide your looks - use makeup, outfits, mannerisms etc. like a true mountebank.