Cooking on a Budget Optimization Challenge

[Godskook]

So, with all the Iron Chef competitions going on, it made me think about cooking. And cooking in my family was quite different from what you'd see on "Iron Chef". See, I grew up as the 2nd oldest of 8 kids, and cooking at my house was always better described as Cooking on a Budget: Making something that served the job under conditions that were sometimes rather obscene in nature. The ingredients weren't of 'superior quality', they were more like 'whatever works'. So in that spirit, I present a new kind of optimization challenge.

1.Picky Eater: For most challenges, there'll be a certain rather common thing that you not only can't use, but can't even be eligible to take at any level up.

2. Clean Dishes: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because in Cooking on a Budget, you can't afford them. Additionally, you can only use 'stock' magic items, with the exception of standard-options presented in MiC(page 234, iirc). Cause seriously, when you're cooking on a budget, you can't afford expensive custom made tools like that.

3. Cooking Time: Contestants will have until June 5th to submit their builds to Godskook. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, in keeping with the spirit behind "Iron Chef", from which I cribbed some of this.

4. Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Frugality, and Window Dressing.

Originality, I think, is the heart of this contest. If you're from a big family, you'd probably agree. There's that day when Mom finds an obscure ingredient that hasn't 'technically' expired in the back of the cupboard, and the family all knows what's for dinner tonight. Your goal should be to emulate this as best you can instead of simply using War Hulk, the PB&J of this challenge.

Power level is as good as you can make it, but bear in mind, just cause you can serve every dish with cheese doesn't mean you should(see chupaqueso recipe). Aim to at least be viable against level appropriate threats(if possible).

Frugality is about spreading things out, both in how much you spend to get something and how much of it you spend in the build. Going 5 levels of Warblade off the bat and dipping low BAB classes the rest of the way is incredibly non-frugal, as is spending a lot on resources that you barely qualify for, like, actually, qualifying for War Hulk(A +5 BAB requirement there). Its inevitable, there's going to be meat in the meal, but you still need potatoes and vegetables, as well as a salad, and those need to taste good too.

Window Dressing is about tying this unholy abomination together in a way that hides the fact that its really old-fashioned peas-porridge (http://historymedren.about.com/od/dailylifesociety/a/bod_porridge.htm). Make it look good and interesting, as if you wanted to play it.

5. Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when anonymising the entries!

6. Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

7. Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.


So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

For our first(and possibly only) ingredient, our picky eater doesn't want Ruathar.

As an expansion, spending a lot of time(6+ psuedo levels, and yes this may or may not include late-game ToB dipping) in alternate systems, such as Psionics or ToB, will get you major losses in most categories. Dipping them is fine, but any build I see that I feel doesn't deserve at least a '1' in frugality won't even be sent to the judges. I'm just not going to waste their time Judging Psion 20 and Warblade 20 compared to a more serious entry with 10 or more dips.

Good luck, optimizers, and may you forgive me for doing this to you.

[term1nally s1ck]

..Contestant. I hate you.

I do suspect mine is probably going to be among the most practical builds, though..

[Amphetryon]

Yeah, what the heck. I'll try something.

[Greenish]

"Best before" means that after that date, it won't be "best" anymore, just good, or that's what I was told.

I'd toss meself in as a judge, but I'm not quite sure what "frugality" entrails in this case, and the mission is a bit open-ended. "Make a build that doesn't use this specific PrC" doesn't promise to give very cohesive replies.

[Godskook]

"Best before" means that after that date, it won't be "best" anymore, just good, or that's what I was told.

I'd toss meself in as a judge, but I'm not quite sure what "frugality" entrails in this case, and the mission is a bit open-ended. "Make a build that doesn't use this specific PrC" doesn't promise to give very cohesive replies.

Are you familiar with said prestige class? Cause that's quite an important part of this challenge.

[Cieyrin]

I'll throw in as a judge, as I'm curious to see what monstrosities are spawned.

[Greenish]

Are you familiar with said prestige class? Cause that's quite an important part of this challenge.Three levels, pretty much anyone who can stand elves can qualify, full casting, decent skills, gets free stuff from the elves.

Though if the point is just to avoid the class, that'll be rather immaterial.

[Godskook]

Three levels, pretty much anyone who can stand elves can qualify, full casting, decent skills, gets free stuff from the elves.

Though if the point is just to avoid the class, that'll be rather immaterial.

No, the point is to never be able to take it, mechanically. That means something very distinct and hard to deal with. Skill checks will be largely monotone, spells will be of low level, and you'll never see your third iterative.

[Greenish]

No, the point is to never be able to take it, mechanically.Ah, now I get it. That's quite something.

Still, technically, as long as you don't help the elves, you won't be able to qualify. (And who would want to help those pointy-eared freaks anyway?) :smallwink: But yeah, that'll be ignored, I assume.

Sure, I can try to judge it then, now that I finally understand what's the point. :smallbiggrin:

[Private-Prinny]

I'd be happy to judge, since avoiding something that trivial is hard if you're ignoring the fluff requirement.

Also, minor nitpick, but the name seems a bit too long. Maybe "Kitchen Sink Optimization Challenge" or something similar would work better?

[Godskook]

Here's our line up so far:

Contestants:

term1nally s1ck
Amphetryon


Judges:

Cieyrin
Private-Prinny
Greenish'

Ugh, more judges than contestants. Anyone else?

[Lord of Syntax]

Call me the 4th Judge.

[Arbitrarity]

Bahaha. I like the picky eater for THAT class. I'll try whip something up, though I suspect it'll be fairly mediocre. Items are wbl based?

Frugality is about getting as much power for as little as possible, levelwise, correct? And Iron Chef thread rules, so levels 5, 10, 15, 20, and "sweetspot"?
Web resources on WoTC site are disallowed? And no fractional BAB?

.... Alright. Let's see what we can do.

[Godskook]

Bahaha. I like the picky eater for THAT class. I'll try whip something up, though I suspect it'll be fairly mediocre. Items are wbl based?

Frugality is about getting as much power for as little as possible, levelwise, correct? And Iron Chef thread rules, so levels 5, 10, 15, 20, and "sweetspot"?
Web resources on WoTC site are disallowed? And no fractional BAB?

.... Alright. Let's see what we can do.

1.There is definitely no fractional BAB, otherwise, it'd be impossible to do this.

2.Just a L20 build. DIdn't make that clear in the OP, oh well.

3.Yes, WBL, but you won't get good points if you're only an itemancer.(took me a solid 5 minutes to figure out how to pronounce that...)

[Amphetryon]

itemancerIt's pronounced AR-TI-FI-CER.

[Lev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LbWWx80ZPA

[term1nally s1ck]

But I was going to build an Artificer Crafter with a few other interesting tricksies..:smallfrown:

[One Step Two]

I'll take up this challenge, looks fun.

[Voice of Reason]

For our first(and possibly only) ingredient, our picky eater doesn't want Ruathar.


Good luck, optimizers, and may you forgive me for doing this to you.

Trying...so hard to forgive...

[Coidzor]

What are Ruathar's mechanical prerequisites again and what's the sourcebook? I believe it's Races of the Wild...

Also, would you please clarify on the Frugality component?

[Arbitrarity]

BAB +6 OR can cast lvl 3 spells OR has 9 ranks in a skill. And it is RoTW.

Oh, I have a great idea. Took some time to thresh out, but I may be able to avoid War Hulk altogether. Might take a lot more work, but right now I've got at least 3 decent tricks. Now, I need to fill in some blank levels with more no BAB dips... hmm.

[Coidzor]

BAB +6 OR can cast lvl 3 spells OR has 9 ranks in a skill. And it is RoTW.

Oh, I have a great idea. Took some time to thresh out, but I may be able to avoid War Hulk altogether. Might take a lot more work, but right now I've got at least 3 decent tricks. Now, I need to fill in some blank levels with more no BAB dips... hmm.

Hmm. Good thing fractional BAB isn't in play then.

[Arbitrarity]

Indeed. Then War Hulk would actually BE a staple, rather than PB&J. So you have a few options of how to use those 20 levels. You can dip-spam classes, get massive LA, or War Hulk. The trick with the first is creating synergy, while not accidentally going over the limits. The trick with the second is not being gimp with your LA, and not being utterly cheesewrought. Also, most good templates are Dragon material.
War Hulk is the staple. The trick is getting Large Size somehow. Since it doesn't progress BAB at all, it's pretty good that way.

[Ozymandias9]

So instead of Iron Chef, The Frugal Gourmet? Sounds fun. I'll be in as a contestant.

You might want to clarify the Picky Eater element: if we can never be allowed to mechanically qualify, then the builds have to never beat 6BAB, 3rd level spells, or 9 ranks in a single skill. That is particularly interesting.

If never meeting the elf-helping special is sufficient, its a bit trivial. Just saw. Nevermind.

[arguskos]

I'll judge, as I do in the Iron Chef, if there's a slot open yet.

[Godskook]

Indeed. Then War Hulk would actually BE a staple, rather than PB&J. So you have a few options of how to use those 20 levels. You can dip-spam classes, get massive LA, or War Hulk. The trick with the first is creating synergy, while not accidentally going over the limits. The trick with the second is not being gimp with your LA, and not being utterly cheesewrought. Also, most good templates are Dragon material.
War Hulk is the staple. The trick is getting Large Size somehow. Since it doesn't progress BAB at all, it's pretty good that way.

PB&J is a staple of most kitchens, at least where I grew up. Its what you use when you don't want to actually cook up something interesting.

@Arguskos, sure, we can go with 5 judges, but I'm capping it at that. Any more would start getting ridiculous.

[arguskos]

@Arguskos, sure, we can go with 5 judges, but I'm capping it at that. Any more would start getting ridiculous.
Eeeeexcellent. :smallamused: /mrburns

[Os1ris09]

I would like to participate but I am a little lost on what to do:

1) Are we building ANY lvl 20 build character that anything goes besides what was restricted.

2) If the above is a no what are the ingredients we need to make our build able to compete? Like does it have to be an elf or needs the wizard class? Stuff like that.

[term1nally s1ck]

Any L20 build, that never would have qualified for Ruathar, at any level.

[Os1ris09]

So we are making a build for a specific class that doesn't have any of its pre-reqs?

AND as far as spells can spell-like abilities or invocations that imitate spells of 3rd lvl or higher qualify you for the Ruathar class? To me that seems like a house rule concept.

[Arbitrarity]

No. We're making a build which specifically DOES NOT qualify for a specific class.

So, no BAB over +5, no skills with more than 8 ranks, and no spells over level 2. So far, so good.

I need more dips. MORE DIPS. :smallbiggrin:

[Os1ris09]

No. We're making a build which specifically DOES NOT qualify for a specific class.

So, no BAB over +5, no skills with more than 8 ranks, and no spells over level 2. So far, so good.

I need more dips. MORE DIPS. :smallbiggrin:

OK I am in. This will be fun how many dips can I use to make this work. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[term1nally s1ck]

I WISH warlock was half BAB. Now I gotta find something different that works with the concept.

[Os1ris09]

I was thinking the same thing. LOL

Quick question:

As far as spells can spell-like abilities or invocations that imitate spells of 3rd lvl or higher qualify you for the Ruathar class? To me that seems like a house rule concept.

[Godskook]

So we are making a build for a specific class that doesn't have any of its pre-reqs?

Ruathar's qualifications are such that pretty much every last standard L6 character qualifies without effort. Full casters all have spellcraft or concentration, as well as 3rd level spells, skill monkeys have 9 ranks in *something*, and fighter types will all have 6 BAB, and probably 9 ranks in spot, intimidate or tumble as well, depending on build.

@Ozymandias, the rule is "cannot be eligible to take at any level up pre-epic", which is distinctly different from "may never qualify". This matters, but how I will not tell.

[Protecar]

Hmmm...Max BAB of 5....spell level of 2....skill ranks of 8....count me in, please. I'm not much of an optimizer(relatively new to the game even), but this intrigues me. :smallsmile:

Edit: Is this 3.5 we're talking about? I kinda just assumed but now I don't recall seeing a version specified.

[Godskook]

I was thinking the same thing. LOL

Quick question:

As far as spells can spell-like abilities or invocations that imitate spells of 3rd lvl or higher qualify you for the Ruathar class? To me that seems like a house rule concept.

Its specifically mentioned in the spoiler that alternate systems(such as invokers) are frowned upon if you spend so many levels in them that, had they been accounted for when Ruathar was made, they would've qualified as well.


Edit: Is this 3.5 we're talking about? I kinda just assumed but now I don't recall seeing a version specified.

Yes.

[Dumbledore lives]

I might be entering this as a contestant, though I haven't done any of these kind of things before.

About how much flavor text is expected on one of these?

[One Step Two]

One more thing for clarification, level 20 only is cool, LA buyoff is accounted for in this under the unearthed arcana as above, but are templates covered in that too? Or will they be marked down?

[Protecar]

One other question I didn't notice being addressed: is there a preference for how stats are generated? I mean, is it permissible to tank int as much as possible(hinder skills)? :smallbiggrin:

[term1nally s1ck]

Bah, just take ranks in half a million different craft and perform skills. And possibly speak language.

[Protecar]

Bah, just take ranks in half a million different craft and perform skills. And possibly speak language.

Ah, guess that'd work too! :smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

Its specifically mentioned in the spoiler that alternate systems(such as invokers) are frowned upon if you spend so many levels in them that, had they been accounted for when Ruathar was made, they would've qualified as well.

I think you'll need to clarify this a little bit. Complete Arcane, for instance, with its Warlock being the iconic Invocation-user, is hardly an obscure book, and was printed in 2004, while Races of the Wild was printed in 2005. Plus, EVERY class can get 9 ranks in at least one skill by level 6, if they so choose. Honestly, it feels like you have something in mind that you don't like, but you're dancing around saying what it is.

[Darkmatter]

I'll enter this one. It's just too crazy to pass up.

[Godskook]

I think you'll need to clarify this a little bit. Complete Arcane, for instance, with its Warlock being the iconic Invocation-user, is hardly an obscure book, and was printed in 2004, while Races of the Wild was printed in 2005. Plus, EVERY class can get 9 ranks in at least one skill by level 6, if they so choose. Honestly, it feels like you have something in mind that you don't like, but you're dancing around saying what it is.

I referenced both psionics and initiators. Invokers are far more analogous to vancian mechanics then either. I'm not sure how I can be any more direct without chasing down every system and giving each qualifications for Ruathar. But I'll try once more:

This is not the Gordian Knot. Cutting it in half is not a valid 'winning' tactic. The expectation is that you'll actually attempt to untie it as presented.

[Arbitrarity]

Curses. I get it now. Ignore my last pm.

So, avoiding more than 4-5 pseudo-levels in any alternate systems means that my build becomes a LOT more spread, and so ineffective, or I need to take War Hulk. :smallannoyed:

And I had a perfectly workable concept, too. :smallsigh:

Ok, so we're avoiding... spells greater than level 2, powers greater than level 2, vestiges greater than level 2, Maneuvers greater than level 2, Shadow Mysteries greater than level 2, more than 5 effective levels of any Incarnum class, Utterances greater than level 2, Invocations greater than least (lesser?), BAB greater than +5, skill ranks greater than 8.

Argh. I think I've got something.

[Amphetryon]

Build done. Write-up in progress.

[Arbitrarity]

Damn, you're quick. I'm still on build, for the moment. Almost done. Then items, then writeup. At least I have a coherent concept... sort of.

[Draz74]

This is not the Gordian Knot. Cutting it in half is not a valid 'winning' tactic. The expectation is that you'll actually attempt to untie it as presented.

Well, I guess I won't be entering, then.

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)

[arguskos]

Well, I guess I won't be entering, then.

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)
I have the feeling this would be acceptable, actually. I know I wouldn't complain about seeing it. :smallwink:

[Greenish]

Well, I guess I won't be entering, then.

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)If we don't ignore the "being pals with elves" bit, just about any build can qualify.

[Edit]: This may disqualify me as a judge, but I've never eaten a PB&J sandwich.

[Arbitrarity]

Build is coming along nicely. I need more dips for dead levels, preferably with synergy. Very annoying. Hm...

[Amphetryon]

Well, I guess I won't be entering, then.

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)I think you are correct, that Godskook would not present such a build to the judges because it ignores the spirit of the challenge.

[Godskook]

Well, I guess I won't be entering, then.

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)

That.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. just might be grey enough to make it to the judges, I suppose, but I'd stand by it still getting almost nothing in frugality anyway.


Ok, so we're avoiding... spells greater than level 2, powers greater than level 2, vestiges greater than level 2, Maneuvers greater than level 2, Shadow Mysteries greater than level 2, more than 5 effective levels of any Incarnum class, Utterances greater than level 2, Invocations greater than least (lesser?), BAB greater than +5, skill ranks greater than 8.
@Ozymandias, the rule is "cannot be eligible to take at any level up pre-epic", which is distinctly different from "may never qualify". This matters, but how I will not tell.

That is what I said on the subject, just to avoid you getting something into your head that's not actually a rule on the subject.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Also if it works that way I'm making an elf-hating Shadowcraftmage/Incantrix.

So, are you allowed to qualify to take ruathar at lvl 21? That's somewhat important.

[Il_Vec]

I'm thinking I could try a build, I just seem to have lost the War hulk somewhere, can you point me to it? While on the subject, is WH legal?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Warhulk is in the miniatures handbook, it is legal but not using lessl than ten levels is a good thing since it's the obvious/easy way to keep BAB down while staying effective as a tank.

[Eldariel]

War Hulk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a) is also online.

[sofawall]

Also if it works that way I'm making an elf-hating Shadowcraftmage/Incantrix.

So, are you allowed to qualify to take ruathar at lvl 21? That's somewhat important.

You can get 3rd level spells or 6 BAB at level 20, meaning you cannot take Ruathar pre-epic.

[Amphetryon]

(My idea was to ignore the BAB difficulty, and just make sure I never qualified for Ruathar by being a Favored Soul of Gruumush, with Favored Enemy: Elf and as many other anti-elf abilities as I could find.)
That.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. just might be grey enough to make it to the judges, I suppose, but I'd stand by it still getting almost nothing in frugality anyway.Exploiting this particular bit of fluff text seems decidedly against the spirit of this competition as originally outlined.

my 2cp.

[Rothen]

I've got an idea. It might take a while before I've got it all worked out, though.

[Private-Prinny]

Exploiting this particular bit of fluff text seems decidedly against the spirit of this competition as originally outlined.

my 2cp.

I see it the other way. Exploiting the fluff requirement by specifically ignoring it in your build goes against the spirit of the challenge, but crippling yourself by taking every single anti-elf ability would not, IMO.

[arguskos]

I see it the other way. Exploiting the fluff requirement by specifically ignoring it in your build goes against the spirit of the challenge, but crippling yourself by taking every single anti-elf ability would not, IMO.
inb4Optimystikrantsaboutelves. :smalltongue:

Also, this challenge is... interesting. It'll be amusing to see what comes out of it. I'm hoping to see at least 1 stuff 5/War Hulk 10/Survivor 5 build, which would make me rofl pretty hard.

[Greenish]

I see it the other way. Exploiting the fluff requirement by specifically ignoring it in your build goes against the spirit of the challenge, but crippling yourself by taking every single anti-elf ability would not, IMO.If the only thing stopping you from becoming a ruathar is that you don't get along with elves, the rest of the build is better to be bloody marvelous.

Though I must admit that a specialized elf-hunter has much potential.

[Draz74]

Exploiting this particular bit of fluff text seems decidedly against the spirit of this competition as originally outlined.

my 2cp.

I do not have RotW handy to check, but I believe that the elf-stuff is clearly spelled out in the PrC's actual block of Prerequisites. If so, I see nothing "fluff text"-ish about this requirement, merely because it has the keyword "Special: " in front of it. (I generally find the practice of pretending Special requirements are "fluff" on these Forums to be annoying.)

That said, yes, I agree, my idea was decidedly against the spirit of this competition. :smallamused: That's why I admitted it as a Gordian Knot strategy instead of turning in such a build secretly.

Unfortunately, violating its spirit is pretty much the only way I would enter this competition. Despite having come from a family of five kids that sometimes couldn't afford to eat out at McDonald's, I simply have no interest in creating a Level 20 character with no more than 6 BAB.

I like the Fractional BAB variant, dangit!

[Il_Vec]

Any books mean any races, correct?

[Greenish]

Any books mean any races, correct?Yeah, but mind the RHD, they do give BAB. Also, having high LA race carry the rest of the build will most likely result in loss of cookies.

[Godskook]

Exploiting this particular bit of fluff text seems decidedly against the spirit of this competition as originally outlined.

my 2cp.

That's my original thought, but the idea of taking as many explicitly anti-elf mechanics as you can to avoid ever being seen as a "friend of the elves" is just grey enough to get past the "Blatantly cutting gordian's knot" clause.

[Arbitrarity]

That is what I said on the subject, just to avoid you getting something into your head that's not actually a rule on the subject.

Yeah, I can bypass it all at level 20. Woohoo. :smallwink: I'll probably find that useful, actually, since it lets me wring just enough out of one of my classes.

[Il_Vec]

I feel I should ask, one entry per participant?

[playswithfire]

Count me in with one of a couple ideas; have to see which are actually possible.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So tell me again why Warlock would invalidate the contest? Seems to me like it is every bit as part an parcel of this contest as War Hulk is... better, actually...

[PId6]

I might submit a build, but question first: How much fluff will we need? Are we just submitting a mechanical build with how it works or do we need an actual character with a backstory?

[Arbitrarity]

Violates spirit of maximum "spell level" by getting higher level effects. Similarly, no using Psion or Warblade to bypass, then dipping random classes.

Hm. How do you submit this sort of character? Should I make a Mythweavers sheet, or just describe it, or both?

I think I'll do both.

[Greenish]

I might submit a build, but question first: How much fluff will we need? Are we just submitting a mechanical build with how it works or do we need an actual character with a backstory?Don't know 'bout Godskook, but I'd appreciate a short backstory, similar to the ones in the Iron Chef (though more emphasis on "short" :smallwink:).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Violates spirit of maximum "spell level" by getting higher level effects. Similarly, no using Psion or Warblade to bypass, then dipping random classes.

Hm. How do you submit this sort of character? Should I make a Mythweavers sheet, or just describe it, or both?

I think I'll do both.

Er... isn't that kinda the point of the contest? To be able to bypass the maximum spell level while still getting higher level effects?

[Arbitrarity]

Examine the spoiler at the start. No. I still don't understand how "Frugality" works, but I've got a build that I think fits very nicely. Now, for backstory...


As an expansion, spending a lot of time(6+ psuedo levels, and yes this may or may not include late-game ToB dipping) in alternate systems, such as Psionics or ToB, will get you major losses in most categories. Dipping them is fine, but any build I see that I feel doesn't deserve at least a '1' in frugality won't even be sent to the judges. I'm just not going to waste their time Judging Psion 20 and Warblade 20 compared to a more serious entry with 10 or more dips.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Examine the spoiler at the start. No. I still don't understand how "Frugality" works, but I've got a build that I think fits very nicely. Now, for backstory...

I still don't understand this limitation, as it seems to violate the concept of the contest, as I see it. More to the point, Complete Arcane came out a year before RotW did, and Psion is Core. I think that, given that these alternate systems were out *before* the anti-ingredient existed, and blatantly do not qualify for it, that they were explicitly not intended to meet qualifications, and thus are not only fair game, but working As Intended.

Oh well, not worth bothering with any further, I guess.

[Arbitrarity]

I didn't make the rules. You can do it, but you lose marks. My original plan had a lot of psionics, dipping PrC's quickly, but I noticed that and had to scrap it.

Lack of BAB is PAINFUL.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I believe frugality is like backwards secret ingredient. Warhulk is like a nice steak it's easy to make a tasty meal that pleases everyone with it but it's expensive.

[AstralFire]

Can anyone explain what the hell Ruathar is? I'm so very confused.

[Il_Vec]

Can anyone explain what the hell Ruathar is? I'm so very confused.

It's a prestige class from Races of the Wild. Its pre-requisites are 9 ranks in any skill, OR 3rd level spells, OR BAB +6.

[AstralFire]

Oh, right, the easy-pease.

...

So... the... goal is just to make a character that... doesn't qualify on any of these points? -scratches head- I feel like that could be clarified in the OP. Mm. Eh, not really as interesting as I was hoping for.

[playswithfire]

Just to clarify: we can get 3rd level spells and/or BAB 6 at ECL 20, just not before, yes? Or not at all?

[Amphetryon]

Just to clarify: we can get 3rd level spells and/or BAB 6 at ECL 20, just not before, yes? Or not at all?
If you get them at 20, you don't qualify for Ruathar pre-Epic. Therefore, you're good.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Got a build done. Just needs some feat juggling/prioritizing at the end. So since heavydipping is pretty much encouraged to what extent should dips be backed up by story.

With Ironchef I usually create a build and story together and have a few major events explaining the changes between classes. While at home I'm more of an adherant to the classes are a metagame concept and take whatever I need to have the abilities I feel my character s hould have.

For example I would easily explain my character being a Rogue 3/Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1/Warblade 4/ Swordsage 1/Bloodclaw Master 3/ Warblade 5-11/Sworsage 2 by saying "he's a badass that totally rips people apart with paired daggers." While others would insist that for such a build to be viable you would have to be a member of the rogue's guild, who starting acting as an enforcer and while training got some elite mercenary contacts who introduced him to more advanced fighting techniques. He enjoyed learning these new techniques so much that he traveled to distant lands to learn more exotic techniques there he found a master who taught him to tap into the more feral side of his nature. He fought many battles on his way home and returned a grizzled and scarred veteran his guildmates barely recognized. With him at the helm the guilds power grew by leaps and bounds and they eventually absorbed the assassin's guild becoming the undisputed masters of vice."

Of course some people would insist I took Assassin levels instead of more warblade/swordsage.

[Danin]

I would love to be a contestant if you still have room, but can not be sure of my available time to work up a build (There's a reason I found this post at 5 to 2 in the morning). I'll submit one if at all possible as I already have an idea I think would be fun to play with.

[Nerdanel]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought this would be a build competition for people like me without all those splatbooks. Well, I might enter anyway, as I have an idea... Hopefully not too many people are writing the same thing...

[Cieyrin]

I feel I should ask, one entry per participant?

I'd gander you'd want to devote all your work to one build, instead of across several. That's just me, though.


I would love to be a contestant if you still have room, but can not be sure of my available time to work up a build (There's a reason I found this post at 5 to 2 in the morning). I'll submit one if at all possible as I already have an idea I think would be fun to play with.

Last I checked we don't have a limit on contestants, so, if you can manage to submit something, you're welcome to. =D

[Il_Vec]

I'd gander you'd want to devote all your work to one build, instead of across several. That's just me, though.

Just while brainstorming one build, I came across another mix that while wouldn't really fit the first one, may be entertaining. I could just enter one and comment on the other as a side note.

[Amphetryon]

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought this would be a build competition for people like me without all those splatbooks. Well, I might enter anyway, as I have an idea... Hopefully not too many people are writing the same thing...
I would think, given the wide-open parameters, that people duplicating concepts would be highly unlikely.

[Greenish]

Got a build done. Just needs some feat juggling/prioritizing at the end. So since heavydipping is pretty much encouraged to what extent should dips be backed up by story.Unless the classes are radically different, you needn't contrive a story on how it happened. Your Thug fighter can take feat rogue levels, but when he learns to KILL PEOPLE WITH HIS MIND! it ought to be mentioned. :smallamused:

[Ozymandias9]

Out of curiosity, are Dragonlance books allowed? They have that annoying state of being third party but officially licensed.

[Arbitrarity]

Whew, pretty much done. Do you want citations for spell, item, class sources? I can do that, but it'll take a bit longer.

[Godskook]

Nere as I can tell, here's our current line up of judges/players:

Judges:

Cieyrin
Private-Prinny
Greenish
Lord of Syntax
Arguskos

Contestants:

term1nally s1ck
Amphetryon
Arbitrarity
Ozymandias9
Os1ris09
Dumbledore lives
Darkmatter
Rothen
playswithfire
Danin
Nerdanel

@Il_Vec, if you can whip up two sufficiently different buidls to warrant multiple entries, go ahead. I'll toss them both to the judges, but keep it to a max of two, and I'd suggest you finalize the first before starting the second, just in case time gets away from you.

-Backstory is a judging category(window dressing). Time spent here will increase your score, but do note, excessive dipping is expected and won't be penalized. Also note that the category's name is suggestive of the fact that

@Ozy, I'll leave that one up to the judges, but be sure to mark obscure-source books, especially things from dragonlance, as the judges will probably want to verify that your builds do indeed 'work'.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

...

So... the... goal is just to make a character that... doesn't qualify on any of these points? -scratches head- I feel like that could be clarified in the OP. Mm. Eh, not really as interesting as I was hoping for.Exactly. I know its late, but the OP really should either have a clear topic or a clear first post...

There are tons of ways to make a character that can't take that elf PrC at level 20. Why do we care?

[Ernir]

Why do we care?

Some people might find it fun?

[Godskook]

There are tons of ways to make a character that can't take that elf PrC at level 20. Why do we care?

Primarily because its amusing.

[Pink]

Okay, I was reading this over, and I totally have a concept. It's not especially frugal, however I think it makes up for this by being able to do some stuff that a highly frugal build wouldn't be able to do. However I am confused as to what stat generation is for such a contest as this.

[Cieyrin]

Okay, I was reading this over, and I totally have a concept. It's not especially frugal, however I think it makes up for this by being able to do some stuff that a highly frugal build wouldn't be able to do. However I am confused as to what stat generation is for such a contest as this.

Most Character Op, including Iron Chef, goes by 32 point buy, so I assume that's what we're using here as well.

[Arbitrarity]

Character submitted.

[playswithfire]

Character submitted. (tweaked it slightly after PMing. just shifted a feat and some skill points)

[Amphetryon]

Character submitted.

[Godskook]

Working on condensing the entries all to one post. Expect to see it within the hour.

[Godskook]

Meshugah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golems_%28Discworld%29#Meshugah.2FThe_King)

CN Maug (Fiend Folio) 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Earth Elemental Bloodline 1/Dragon Shaman 1/Beguiler 4/Dread Necromancer 1/Earth Elemental Bloodline +1/Warmage 1/Rage Mage 2/Dread Witch 1/Warlock 1/Rage Mage + 1 (ECL 20)

Large Extraplanar Construct

STR 31 DEX 18 CON - INT 18 WIS 10 CHA 14 (after all level increases are put in STR)

Feats: Alertness (Bonus), Daunting Presence (1) Power Attack (Bonus), Extra Rage (3), Combat Casting (6), Instantaneous Rage (9), Improved Sunder (Bonus), Knowledge Devotion (12), Unnatural Will (Bonus), Intimidating Rage (15)

Typical Spell Output: Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Message, Open/Close, Read Magic; Charm Person, Color Spray, Disguise Self, Hypnotism, Obscuring Mist, Silent Image, Whelm; Blinding Color Surge, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, See Invisibility, Whelming Blast... Cause Fear, Doom, Ray of Enfeeblement, Summon Undead I... Acid Splash (x2), Disrupt Undead, Light, Ray of Frost; Fist of Stone, Hail of Stone, Magic Missile, True Strike.

Bloodline Special Abilities: +2 on Climb checks, +1 STR, Meld into stone 1/day (Sp), Earth Elemental Affinity + 2, +1 Natural Armor, +2 on Listen checks, Earth Mastery (Ex). Not eligible for +1 CON

Invocation: Frightful Blast.

Skills: Bluff 5 Concentration 13 (took 6 ranks at ECL 20), Craft: Armorsmithing 5, Craft: Metalworking 5, Craft: Stoneworking 5, Craft: Trapmaking 5, Craft: Weaponsmithing 5, Craft: Woodworking 5, Handle Animal 5, Heal 5, Hide 5, Initimidate 5, Knowledge: Arcana 5, Knowledge: Arch & Eng 5, Knowledge: Local 5, Knowledge: Nature 5, Knowledge: Religion 5, Knowledge: the Planes 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Profession: Teamster 5, Spot 5, Survival 5, Swim 5, Use Magic Device 5.

Race/Class Abilities: +10 STR, +4 DEX, +2 INT, +2 CHA; 40' speed; Space/Reach 10'/10'; +7 Natural Armor; Natural Weapons: Slam (1d8 + 13); Darkvision 60'; Immunity to mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, necromantic effects, and any effect requiring a Fort save unless it works on objects. Not subject to critical hits, sneak attacks, subdual damage, ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, or death from massive damage; Spell Resistance 27; Pulverize (Su): 3x/day touch an object and negate its hardness for 1d4 rounds (Fort save DC 18 negates). This power can affect 1000 cubic feet and unattended nonmagical objects do not receive a saving throw; Rapid Repair (Ex): As long as at least 1 HP remains, repair 1 HP/hour of FULL rest or 2 HP/hour if someone assists with a DC 14 Craft: Stonemasonry check. Cannot assist in own repair and Rapid Repair does not regrow or reattach limbs; +4 racial bonus to Craft: Stonemasonry and Knowledge: Arch & Eng checks.

Rage: Fly into a screaming frenzy 1/encounter, 3x/day. +4 STR & CON, +2 morale bonus to Will saves, and -2 penalty to AC. Cannot use any skills requiring patience or concentration while enraged. Rage lasts up to 5 rounds; Turn Undead: 5x/day, 1d20 + 4, 2d6+3 damage; Trapfinding (Ex): Use search to locate traps when DC>20, and use Disable Device to disarm magic traps; Spell Rage (Ex): 1/day can cast spells whose casting is no more than 1 full round while in Spell Rage, using character level as caster level. Spell Rage lasts 3 rounds or until willed to end, and causes fatigue for the rest of the encounter when ended; Overcome Spell Failure (Ex): Decrease spell failure chance in light or medium armor by 10%; Eldritch Blast (Sp): Ray does 2d6 damage; Armored Mage (Ex): May wear light armor and light shields with no spell failure chance; Warmage Edge (Ex): +4 points damage to any spell that does HP damage; Charnel Touch (Su): 1/round at will melee touch attack to do 1d8 points damage to a living foe. Heals undead and can be delivered through a spectral hand spell; Master of Terror (Ex): Save DC of any spell cast with the fear descriptor increases by 1. Also gains a +2 bonus on all Intimidate skill checks. Additionally, fear can now affect individuals normally immune to fear; Cloaked Casting (Ex): +1 bonus to spell's DC's when the spell targets a foe who would be denied their DEX bonus to AC; Surprise Casting (Ex): On a successful feint in combat, target is denied DEX to AC for the next melee attack or spell [you] cast against it. Must remain in melee with the target and the attack or spell must be made or cast on or before [your] next turn. Target is not considered flat-footed and can make AoO's against [you] if [you] don't cast defensively; Totem Dragon (Copper); Draconic Aura (Su): Power Aura - +1 bonus on melee damage rolls, Presence Aura - +1 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks, Vigor Aura - Fast Healing 1; Lion Spiritual Totem (Su): Pounce special ability (MM 313)

Equipment: +3 Mithral Breastplate, +1 Domineering Collision Scythe, Belt of Battle, Anklet of Translocation, Wand of Repair Object.


Meshugah's Story

The rage was always a part of him. The other maugs, having seen an Elder Earth Elemental watching over Meshugah's construction, felt he must be destined to greatness, to leadership, to be their champion. The rage betrayed him, and with it, he betrayed them. The Watch was summoned, and Meshugah fled into the night, lest they find a way to string a construct up on the hangman's tree. He "lived" a barbaric existence for a time, his inner voice directing him to seek a trade and to gain information about the wide world around him. It brought him no comfort, though he was strengthened by it. He sought for answers in the elemental essence infused in his creation, to no avail. He turned to the great Copper Dragons, as their shaman, and felt nothing. He sought understanding of the minds of living beings unlike himself, and for a while, the manipulation of others' mentalities seemed to suit him... but not enough. He explored the inner workings of fear more by delving into necromantic arts, trying to understand why they ran from him, why he needed them to run. When he tired of chasing them, he turned back to the Elemental heritage, then learned to hurl earth, and frost, and acid at those who ran. In the end, his lack of understanding only fueled the rage, and he married it to his new understanding of spells. Now people ran in fear of his rage, and of his spellcasting. Along the way his heritage gave him the ability to move through rock, and instill fear in those he leaped out at. He joined a witches' coven, to better harness the terror, and went from the witches to their brethren, the warlocks, seeking new ways to instill terror through his anger. Finally, he returned, as he knew in the center of his being that he would, to the ideal marriage of rage and magic. The rage will always be a part of him.

[Godskook]

Jack Divine
Character Description

"We spent years training that scrawny little kid in divinations. He wasn't strong enough for the army, and we figured the priesthood could use him. He came to me for disciplining even more than most of the boys we had there - he was constantly acting out, wearing weird masks or headdresses, that sort of thing. He was always something of a ringleader, getting the boys into all sorts of mischief. The wretched kid slipped out of our compound one night and I, for one, was glad to see the back of him."
--Lars Kend, director of The Messemprar Home for Precocious Boys

"We found Jack in the forest. He was weak from hunger. We took him in. He learned the ways of our people for three winters. He still visits, bringing tales of his adventures."
--Leaping Horse, totemist

"Yeah, I remember Jack. Used to call himself Jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Seems the phrase caught on..."
--Perry Calmus, mage, adventured with Jack

"Weird guy, Jack. Always playing around with this and that, never sticking with one thing for long, but pouring all his soul into it while he was interested. He would dabble in all kinds of things - magic, martial arts, acting, stupid sleight of hand tricks - and was always haring off to work on some new project. Jack sure could pull off some neat tricks, though."
--Mara Larin, thief, adventured with Jack

"I never saw such a guy for planning an operation. When we took out Mar Shore's slave ring, Jack spent days getting maps, running reconnaissance, and casting divinations. He even posed as an interested buyer and talked Mar himself into giving him a guided tour of his entire complex."
--Girard Thane, mercenary, adventured with Jack

"Who?"
--Mar Shore, incarcerated former slave trader

Jack is a slight, short man whose appearance changes daily. When not adventuring, he likes to stand out in a crowd, wearing mismatched and out-of-fashion clothes, gaudy hats, and oftentimes masks as well. His soulmelds blend in seamlessly with his bizarre attire, and most people are unable to recognize them as such. While many people are taken aback by his odd appearance, they quickly warm up to his easy manner and instinctive good-heartedness.

Jack has an odd form of patience. He will practice the same thing for days if that is what it takes to learn it, and he will devote every waking moment to any project which has captured his interest. When a project is finished or a trick learned, however, Jack abandons it completely to pursue his next interest. While he rarely stays with one thing for long, Jack is a paragon of synergy, constantly applying tricks or abilities learned during the pursuit one project towards others.

Jack spent most of his formative years in a home for boys. He was not an orphan, but his parents gave him up at an early age to apprentice as a diviner. Jack did not hate all his time in the home, but he had always felt a wanderlust. Eventually, after much careful planning, Jack left the home. He traveled a long way, relying on what clerical magic he knew to keep him alive and out of trouble. At one point, however, he found himself nearly starving, far from civilization. He was saved and taken in by a group of barbarians, and he learned the ways of their nature magic. He was fascinated by their way of life, and it was three years before the wanderlust took him once more, and he said amiable goodbyes to his new family. Since then Jack has wandered the world, righting wrongs when he can and turning his considerable talents to any task that interests him. He has kept company with wizards and priests, paladins and rogues, barbarians and courtiers, and has learned from all of them.

When adventuring, Jack is a meticulous planner, a trait he learned during his years as an apprentice diviner. He uses all the resources available to ensure that whatever objective is being sought is attained with a minimum of effort and risk. He is capable of filling most roles in a party - given a day's forewarning, he can become an excellent melee combatant, a long-range sniper, a healer, a scout, a diplomat, or provide magical support, and he is often capable of performing multiple roles at once. He excels most when in a group, but his flexibility makes him quite capable alone as well.

In close combat, Jack usually reverts to the fighting techniques he first learned to defend himself, calling upon totems of magical beasts to aid him. He defends himself with magic and with martial skill, blinking in and out of view to throw off his attackers and provide himself with the opportunity to make the devastating precision strikes he has learned to perform through back-alley contacts and a study of anatomy. Jack fights at long range with spells and magical abilities from a number of disciplines.


The Crunch

I had to use a lot of sources (it is an interesting note that this challenge is only possible in a Core only environment by taking casting classes with relevant stats below 12, and even then you need to take every available low or mid BAB class and prestige class.) I cited the sources as follows: (BoED) Book of Exalted Deeds; (CtS): Cityscape; (CAd): Complete Adventurer; (CAr): Complete Arcane; (CCh): Complete Champion; (CDv): Complete Divine; (CMg): Complete Mage; (CSl): Complete Scoundrel; (DMG): Dungeon Master's Guide; (HoH): Heroes of Horror; (MHB): Miniatures Handbook; (MIC): Magic Item Compendium; (MoI): Magic of Incarnum; (PHB): Player's Handbook; (PH2): Player's Handbook II; (RoD): Races of Destiny; (RoF): Races of Faerun; (SpC): Spell Compendium; (SWk): Stormwrack; (ToB): Tome of Battle; (UAr): Unearthed Arcana

Jack's Build

{table]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Class | Feats | Special
1st | +0 | Cleric 1 (PHB) | DMM (Persist) (CDv); Persist Spell (CAr); Extend Spell (PHB) | Cleric Spellcasting; Turn Undead; Planning Domain (SpC); Oracle Domain (SpC) |
2nd | +0 | Totemist 1 (MoI) | | Meldshaping; Wild Empathy |
3rd | +1 | Totemist 2 (MoI) | Extra Turning (PHB) | Totem Chakra Bind (+1 capacity) |
4th | +1 | Rogue 1 (PHB) | | 1d6 SA; Antiquarian (CCh) |
5th | +1 | Spellthief 1 (CAd) | | 2d6 SA; Steal Spell (0 or 1); trapfinding |
6th | +1 | Wizard 1 (PHB) | Combat Expertise ; Able Learner (RoD) | Wizard Spellcasting; Focused Conjurer: ban Evocation, Necromancy, Abjuration (CMg); Immediate Magic: Abrupt Jaunt (PH2) |
7th | +1 | Chameleon 1 (RoD) | | Aptitude Focus (1/day); Spells |
8th | +2 | Chameleon 2 (RoD) | | Floating Bonus Feat |
9th | +2 | Incarnate 1 (MoI) | Southern Magician (RoF) | Meldshaping; Detect Evil |
10th | +2 | Master of Masks 1 (CSl) | | Assassin Mask; Archmage Mask; 3d6 SA |
11th | +2 | Archivist 1 (HoH) | Scribe Scroll (PHB) [bonus] | Archivist Spellcasting; Dark Knowledge: Tactics 3/day |
12th | +2 | Ninja 1 (CAd) | Bonus Essensia (MoI) | 4d6 SA/SS; Armor Bonus; Ki pool; trapfinding |
13th | +3 | Archivist 2 (HoH) | | Lore Mastery |
14th | +3 | Unseen Seer 1 (CMg) | | 5d6 SA; +Wizard |
15th | +4 | Unseen Seer 2 (CMg) | Silent Spell (PHB) [bonus]; Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) (CAr) | Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye (SpC); +Wizard |
16th | +4 | Sorcerer 1 (PHB) | | Familiar: Rat |
17th | +4 | Ultimate Magus 1 (CMg) | | Arcane Spell Power +1; +Sorcerer |
18th | +5 | Ultimate Magus 2 (CMg) | Extra Turning (PHB) | Expanded Spell Knowledge; +Wizard; +Sorcerer |
19th | +5 | Archivist 3 (HoH) | | D.K. 4/day |
20th | +5 | Swordsage 1 (ToB) | | Weapon Focus (Tiger Claw Weapons); Quick to Act; Maneuvers |
[/table]

Stats

Stats start with a conservative 25 point buy.

Stats -> Level Increases [With items]:
Str 8 [14]
Dex 14 [20]
Con 13->14 [20]
Wis 14->16 [22]
Int 14->16 [22]
Cha 14 [20]


Relevant Items

Item [price]
Belt of Magnificence +6 (MHB) [200k]
Prayer Bead (Karma) (DMG) [20k]
Orange Ioun Stone (DMG) [30k]
Ankh of Assension (MIC) [9k]
Blessed Book (DMG) [12.5k]
Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC) [1k]
Rogue's Vest, +5 Resistance to Saves (MIC) [43k]
Bracers of the Entangling Blast, +8 armor bonus (MIC) [66k]
Wings of Flying (DMG) [54k]
Hand of Glory (DMG) [9k]
Admiral's Bicorne (SWk) [51k]
Ring of Freedom of Movement (DMG) [40k]
Ring of Blinking (DMG) [27k]
Ring of Enduring Arcana (CMg) [6k]
Blindfold of True Darkness (MIC) [9k]
5x 2nd level pearls of power (DMG) [20k]
10x 1st level pearls of power (DMG) [10k]
Handy Haversack (DMG) [2k]

Total: 609.5k

The remainder of Jack's wealth is tied up in the wands and scrolls of every conceivably needed 1st or 2nd level spell as well as other useful consumable minor items that fill his haversack. These include things like tree feather tokens, alchemist's fire, and tanglefoot bags. They also significantly include masterwork tools for every skill that's available, many disguises, costumes, and outfits, and dozens of normal and a few masterwork weapons. The ~100k Jack has left will buy him hundreds of this type of item, and I don't want to try figuring out how much of each thing he has because this is already a novel.


Maneuvers, Soulmelds, and Spells

Maneuvers known (ToB) (Swordsage): Mountain hammer, distracting ember, cloak of deception, wolf fang strike, shadow jaunt, sapphire nightmare blade, island of blades
Swordsage initiator level: 10th
Highest level maneuver: 2nd

Totemist soulmelds: 3
Totemist chakra binds: Totem
Totemist meldshaper level: 2nd
Incarnate soulmelds: 2
Incarnate chakra binds: none
Incarnate meldshaper level: 1st
Total essentia: 5 (2 from Totemist, 1 from Incarnate, 2 from Bonus Essentia)
Essentia capacity: 4 (5 if bound to Totem Chakra)

Spells known (Sorcerer 0th): Prestidigitation, caltrops, acid splash, ray of frost, detect magic, arcane mark
Spells known (Sorcerer 1st): Magic missile, grease, golem strike, benign transportation, persistent blade

Spells per day: 0th/1st/2nd/3rd; Caster Level
Archivist: 4/5/4/0; CL 4 = 3 (levels) + 1 (ioun stone)
Chameleon: 4/5/3/0; CL 5/6 = 4 (levels) + 1 (ioun stone) + 1 (arcane spellpower, arcane only)
Cleric (Oracle, Planning): 3/3+1/0/0; CL 2 = 1 (level) + 1 (ioun stone)
Wizard (Conjuration): 3+3/4+3/3+3/0; CL 10 = 4 (levels) + 4 (practiced spellcaster) + 1 (ioun stone) + 1 (arcane spellpower)
Sorcerer: 6/7/0/0; CL 5 = 3 (levels) + 1 (ioun stone) + 1 (arcane spellpower)

Caster levels can also be increased by the following means:

Ankh of Ascension (+4 CL on a divine spell if a divine spell of equal level is sacrificed)

Karma prayer bead (+4 CL for 10 minutes, 1/day)

Divination spells are cast at +2 CL due to the Oracle domain.

The mask of the archmage increases arcane CL by +2 when worn.


Jack's base statistics, factoring in only constantly active effects

Jack Divine
[b]Neutral Good Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 6d8+10d6+4d4+100 (172 hp)
Initiative: +4 (Dex + Quick to Act)
Speed: 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 27 (+3 Dex, +6 Wis (ninja armor bonus), +8 bracers), touch 19, flat-footed 24
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+7
Attack: MW kukri +11 melee (+5 BAB, +1 MW, +1 Weapon Focus, +2 Str, +2 Admiral's Bicorne) (1d4+2/18-20 + 5d6 SA)
Special Attacks: Spells, spell-like abilities, maneuvers, soulmelds, dark knowledge (tactics)
Qualities: Blinking (ring), freedom of movement (ring), wild empathy +9, trapfinding, familiar (rat), detect evil
Saves: Fort +24, Ref +26, Will +36 (Base + stat + 5 resistance + 2 Admiral's Bicorne

Skills:

Total Ranks: 170 (Able Learner lets me very nicely not worry about what class they come from)
All total bonuses are listed including the +2 morale bonus and +5 untyped bonus to Cha-skills from the Admiral's Bicorne.

{table] Skill | Ranks | Total Bonus
Appraise | 0 | +8
Balance | 8 | +13
Bluff | 8 | +20
Climb | 0 | +4
Concentration | 8 | +15
Craft | 0 | +8
Decipher Script | 1 | +11
Diplomacy | 8 | +26
Disable Device | 8 | +16
Disguise | 8 | +22
Escape Artist | 0 | +5
Forgery | 0 | +8
Gather Information | 0 | +12
Handle Animal | 6 | +18
Heal | 0 | +8
Hide | 8 | +13
Intimidate | 0 | +14
Jump | 8 | +14
Knowledge: Arcana | 6 | +16
Knowledge: Nature | 1 | +11
Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty | 5 | +13
Knowledge: The Planes | 5 | +13
Knowledge: Religion | 5 | +13
Listen | 0 | +8
Move Silently | 6 | +11
Open Lock | 0 | +0
Perform (Act) | 8 | +20
Profession (Sailor) | 0 | +13
Profession (Others) | 0 | +8
Ride | 0 | +7
Search | 8 | +16
Sense Motive | 5 | +13
Sleight of Hand | 8 | +15
Speak Language | 1 | N/A
Spellcraft | 8 | +18
Spot | 8 | +16
Survival | 5 | +13
Swim | 1 | +5
Tumble | 8 | +15
Use Magic Device | 4 | +16
Use Rope | 0 | +5
[/table]

[b]Skill Tricks
Collector of stories, second impression, conceal spellcasting, assume quirk, social recovery




Tactics / Tricks (This is where the build really gets interesting)

Thanks to his floating feat, the ability to persist different spells each day, and the unique mechanics of soulmelds, Jack can substantially alter his abilities every day. These are what give him his true power. Knowledge of incarnum is necessary for some of these tricks - I use X+YE to indicate that a bonus is X for shaping the soulmeld and increases by Y for each point of essentia invested. Essentia can be shuffled around as a swift action - Jack has 5 total essentia, and his essentia capacity is 4, or 5 for a soulmeld bound to his totem chakra.

Note that many of these tricks can be done simultaneously.

Persistant Spells
Jack uses persistant spells every day. Jack has 18 turn undead uses per day normally (3 + 5 Cha + 8 Extra Turning + 2 Reliquary Holy Symbol) which allows him two persisted spells. He can get a third persisted spell if he uses his floating Chameleon feat on Extra Turning.

Dispel magic is a horrible danger to a low-level caster of persistent spells, and Jack knows this well. He has a routine to increase his caster level high enough to make a targeted dispel not an auto-lose for him. He casts any persistent spells he can from his wizard levels. Jack's base wizard casting level is 9 (4 levels + 4 practiced spellcaster + 1 arcane spellpower). When he casts spells in the morning he increases this by:
+1 (orange ioun stone)
+4 (prayer bead of karma)
+2 (mask of the archmage from his Master of Masks level)
For a caster level of 16. To persist a spell, he has to convert it to a divine spell with his Southern Magician feat (he can do this 5 times per day). This lets him further increase the caster level by +4 using his Ankh of Ascention (sacrificing an Archivist spell) as it is cast, for a total caster level of 20 (22 if it's a divination spell thanks to Oracle domain). To help even further, any spell altered with the Southern Magician feat imposes a -4 penalty on attempts to dispel it, and Jack's ring of enduring arcana gives a further +4 bonus to the caster level vs. dispel attempts. Thus, for the cost of 4 spells each morning (which can be restored with pearls of power) he gains two persistant spells that require an effective DC 38 (40 for divination) caster level check to dispel. Jack can't use the ankh on the third spell he persists, since it and the reliquary use the same body slot.

If Jack has no arcane version of the spell he wishes to persist, or if he must cast it from his Chameleon levels, the dispel DC is 34 for arcane spells and 27 for divine spells (+2 for divination).

Melee Attacks

If Jack is planning on or worried about fighting in melee (and this is his normal assumption) he will use the following tactics, by level:

3rd Level
Jack can bind the landshark boots soulmeld to his totem chakra now, gaining 4 attacks at his highest base attack bonus as a standard action if he makes a DC 20 jump check. Each attack has a 0+1E enhancement bonus on attack and damage, and the boots grant a 4+2E bonus on jump checks so he can make his jumps.

Jack also finally figures out what those priests back at the home were talking about and can persist a spell each day without the aid of items. At first, he persists Divine Favor (PHB).

4th Level
Jack gets sneak attack for all his claws! He starts persisting Healer's Sight (CSl) for a +2 bonus on attack and damage while making sneak attacks. As Jack's level increases, he gains more sneak attack. See below for Jack's techniques for gaining sneak attack.

8th level
Jack sees his first 2nd level spells thanks to Chameleon casting. He throws his Chameleon feat at Southern Magician and starts persisting Wraithstrike (SpC) so that all his attacks are touch attacks.

9th level
Jack can now start using his Chameleon feat to get more turn attempts and persist another spell if he's come across some way of boosting his Cha by 2. Swift Fly (SpC), Cloud of Knives (SpC), and Healer's Sight are all useful.

11th level
Dark Knowledge gives Jack and his buddies bonuses to attack rolles, which he at least sorely needs.

15th level
With Hunter's Eye (PH2) as a wizard spell and 2nd level wizard spells, Jack can now start boosting his sneak attack to crazy levels by persisting Hunter's Eye and Wraithstrike. While he was competent before, now he's a serious melee threat.

Gaining Sneak Attack
Jack has a bunch of ways of gaining sneak attack:

Grease (PHB) and Impeding Stones (CtS) (a much, much larger area and longer duration, but limited surfaces) force balance checks, making anyone without 5 ranks in Balance flat-footed.

The Persistant Blade (SpC) spell grants flanking on one target.

The Swordsage maneuvers distracting ember and cloak of deception - swift action flanking and invisibility for one turn, respectively.

The Kelpstrand (SpC) 2nd level druid spell grapples opponents

Jack's ring of blinking. If intelligent items are allowed by this competition, it activates itself, requiring no action. Otherwise a standard action will let him sneak attack for 7 rounds, albeit with a 20% (non-concealment) miss chance. No, Pierce Magical Protection won't help with that.

Magical concealing effects plus his blindfold of true darkness, although this means he has -1d6 sneak attack since he will be unable to use his assassin mask.

The Shadow Mantle soulmeld can be bound to Jack's shoulders if he uses his floating feat on Open Shoulders Chakra. This allows him a swift action total darkness effect in which he has blindsight.

Jack can use the Vine Strike (SpC) [Drd1], Golem Strike (SpC) [Sor1], or Grave Strike (SpC) [Clr1] spells to gain sneak attack against plants, constructs, and undead, respectively. If he suspects he'll see a lot of one of these these in a day, he'll probably persist the appropriate spell with his third persist. Otherwise he'll use pearls of power to restore them.

Damage Reduction
Jack does enough damage to spill over most any damage reduction, but it'd be nice not to have that problem.

The Align Fang (SpC) [Drd2] spell is one of which Jack would carry a few scrolls for emergencies. If he knew he were fighting demons or something he would memorize it. Similarly with Silvered Claws (BoED) [Drd1].

The Mountain Hammer maneuver can be used if things get really bad.

At 20th Level
Jack persists Hunter's Eye (CL 22 for +7d6 sneak attack) and Wrathstrike, totem binds his landshark boots, and invests max essentia in them. He wears his assassin mask, his rogue tunic, and his admiral's bicorne.
Attack Standard action: +15/+15/+15/+15 (+5 BAB +5 enhancement + 2 Str + 1 Weapon Focus + 2 Hat) Touch attacks (1d6+7 + 13d6 SA)

As a standard action melee attack against a flat-footed foe, Jack deals on the order of 200 damage.

Ranged Attacks

Jack can be a competent ranged fighter as well, using a few different abilities.

3rd Level
Jack can bind the Ythrak Mask to his totem chakra, gaining a ray usable every 2 rounds with a 60 ft. range, dealing Ed6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack. His persistent Bless spell helps here too.

4th Level
Jack can sneak attack with his Ythrak Mask ability, adding to damage.

6th Level
Jack can blast with the Lesser Orb spells (SpC) while his mask is recharging.

7th Level
With Chameleon spells, Jack gains a new tactic. He can become a longer range sniper by persisting Sniper's Shot (SpC) [Rng1/SorWiz1] and the Ythrak Mask. He can also use the old standby, Magic Missile (PHB) for force damage at medium range if he needs it. He's probably picked up a pearl of power or two by now to power this, but he still doesn't have a whole ton of spells.

8th Level
Jack can use long-range spells like Acid Arrow to deliver sneak attack damage at extreme ranges. He can also now persist Swift Fly to stay out of reach of attackers - and many levels before those wizards are getting their coveted overland fight! Persisting Cloud of Knives is a good source of free sneak attack damage each round if Jack keeps his opponents flat-footed.

9th Level
Jack can use the Dissolving Spittle soulmeld to get a 30 ft ranged touch attack dealing 1+Ed6 points of acid damage usable at will. This means he can be a ranged and a melee threat at the same time, just using a swift action to reallocate essentia each round.

At 20th Level
Jack can take two different approaches. The first is an attractive option only if he doesn't want to close with his foes. He can shift his Chameleon aptitude focus to Combat, use a MW composite longbow, and persist Hunter's Eye, Sniper's Shot (SpC) and Guided Shot (SpC) [Sor/Wiz1]. He wears his assassin mask, his rogue tunic, and his admiral's bicorne. He shapes the sighting gloves soulmeld for +4 to damage. He attacks from extreme range (1100 ft.) with no penalty - at this distance, foes have a -100 to spot checks to find him, meaning he can easily shoot, then use a move action to hide again with little chance of getting found. Many of his arrows will miss thanks to his horrible BAB, but he just flies away and tries again.
Attack: Standard action: +13 (+5 BAB + 1 MW + 3 Dex + 2 Combat Focus + 2 Hat) (1d8+2 + 13d6 SA)

Alternately, Jack can persist Hunter's Eye and shape the Dissolving Spittle soulmeld (if acid resistance is a problem, he uses the Ythrak mask instead). He wears his assassin mask, his rogue tunic, and his admiral's bicorne.
Attack: Standard action: +10 (+5 BAB + 3 Dex + 2 Hat) Touch attack (5d6 + 13d6 SA)

Defense

Tanking is not Jack's strong suit, but he can do it at need, especially at low levels.

1st Level
Heavy armor proficiency is a great way to avoid damage at this level.

2nd Level
A number of totemist soulmelds help with defense. Just shaping the Wormtail Belt gives him a 2+E bonus to natural armor. He can also get energy resistance with e.g. the Phoenix Belt, so long as he knows what energies he's going to be up against. His options increase at 3rd level when he can bind soulmelds.

6th Level
Jack gets an incredible boost to defense in the Abrupt Jaunt conjurer ACF, allowing him to get out of Dodge as an immediate action 2/day at this level. He can also use Mage Armor to avoid armor penalties. Finally, Combat Expertise is a great way to increase AC at need, especially if Jack is striking with flat-footed touch attacks.

8th Level
Jack can persist a bunch of cool spells now, including Swift Fly, which is a very good defence against many enemies.

9th Level
Some of the Incarnate soulmelds are nice for defense. For example, Adamant Pauldrons give 25% fortification and DR E/evil.

12th Level
The Ninja's AC bonus is nice to have, since Jack doesn't really like heavy armor as much as random faux-fashionable clothes.

At 20th Level
Jack typically shapes the Wormtail Belt for a +2 bonus to natural armor. He wears his bracers of Armor. This gives him:
Armor Class: 29 (10 + 3 (Dex) + 6 (Wis) + 8 (bracers) + 2 (Wormtail Belt)), touch 19, flat-footed 26.
If worried, Jack will take up to a -9 hit on his attack rolls (so they are now +6/+6/+6/+6 touch) to get a +8 bonus to AC (5 from Combat Expertise, 3 from fighting defensively with 5+ ranks in Tumble), giving him a respectable AC 37.
And of course, Jack can always activate his ring of blinking for a sweet 50% miss chance and no spell targeting, and Abrupt Jaunt 6/day away from really nasty attacks. In any case, he has a reasonable 172 hit points.

Jack can also dabble around with battlefield control using his bonus feat for stand still or improved trip and grabbing a guisarme and casting enlarge person on himself.

Spells and Special Attacks
Jack has extremely high saving throws by default thanks to his egregious multiclassing.

If he is particularly worried about certain special abilities, Jack can use his floating feat for an Open Chakra. A number of Incarnum melds and binds give useful immunities or resistances. If he were going up against a red dragon, for example, Jack would probably shape the flame cincture meld for 10+5E fire resistance and take the Open Chakra feat to bind Impulse Boots for evasion. If attacking a vampire, he would take the Open Chakra feat to bind Pauldrons of Health to his shoulders for immunity to energy drain.

Jack also has a plethora of low level spell scrolls to remove various afflictions. The Paladin (PHB) and the Healer (MHB) are good spell lists to draw from.

Social Skills

Jack can easily become the face of the party.

1st Level
Diplomacy plus a good Cha mod is all you really need to be competent.

3rd Level
Jack can persist some useful cleric spells, most notably Comprehend Languages (PHB).

4th Level
Here is where Jack will start picking up some synergy bonuses for his diplomacy.

6th Level
Charm person (PHB), Disguise Self (PHB), etc.

8th Level
More spells available for casting or persisting. Improvization (SpC) [Brd1] gives luck bonuses based on caster level to skill checks as well as other rolls. Also, at around this level, Jack will start picking up some social-related skill tricks.

9th Level
Incarnate has some good social melds. If acting as the face for the day, Jack will shape Truthseeker Goggles for a 2+2E insight bonus on Gather Information, Search, and Sense Motive and the Silvertongue Mask for a 2+2E insight bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks.

18th Level
Jack can use Open Chakra to bind the Silvertonge Mask to his throat chakra for Suggestion at will (though only once per day on a single creature.

At 20th Level
If Jack is being social for a day, he will shape the Silvertongue Mask and Truthseeker Goggles. If necessary, he will persist Comprehend Languages. He will memorize potentially useful spells such as Charm Person and Improvization. He will use his floating feat on Skill Focus: Diplomacy. He will wear his admiral's bicorne and his mask of the archmage. On a key Diplomacy check, he will use Improvization (CL 8) and fill his Silvertongue Mask with essentia. This will give him a diplomacy bonus of:
43 = 8 (ranks) + 5 (Cha) + 7 (Hat) + 6 (synergy) + 10 (insight) + 4 (luck) + 3 (Feat)
This isn't as good as the best diplomancers, but it's enough to create fanatics or reliably succeed on rushed diplomacy checks. Jack also has a few skill tricks for rerolling Diplomacy or Disguise checks.

Mobility

Jack has a lot of mobility options.

2nd Level
Just shaping the Blink Shirt soulmeld lets Jack dimension door 10+10E feet at will. He can also get good swim speeds from soulmelds.

5th Level
Around this level Jack starts picking up Tumble skills.

6th Level
More teleportation, in the form of Abrupt Jaunt.

8th Level
Jack can persist Swift Fly now.

9th Level
Incarnate soulmelds for Tumble and Swim if Jack needs them.

At 20th Level
Jack flies with a speed of 60 ft., and he can increase speed with persisted Swift Haste. He can use the Kraken Mantle and Sailor's Bracers for water breathing and swimming abilites. He can use (or persist) Lightfoot (SpC) [Asn1/Rng1] to ignore attacks of opportunity, but his normal Tumble checks are high enough to ignore them typically. Finally, his ring of Freedom of Movement is a big NO to movement reducers.

Healing

1st Level
Jack's a cleric. He can also use CLW and Lesser Vigor wands.

8th Level
Jack can use his floating feat for Healing Touch (CCh) to gain unlimited healing up to half.

9th Level
Lifebond Vestments let Jack heal in exchange for damaging himself, and Therputic Mantle increases the damage healed on Jack by healing spells by Spell Level + 2E, making cure light wounds wands go a whole lot futher, and making even cure minor wounds a worthwhile cantrip for him to prepare.

11th Level
Jack's new Scribe Scroll feat will let him keep all kinds of useful low-level status removing spells handy.

At 20th Level
Jack is never going to be an in-combat healer, but he can keep everyone happy with cure light wounds wands and his copious scroll collection. If he ever gets separated from or runs out of his consumables, his many low level spells and pearls of power can help out, and he can always use his floating feat on Healing Touch.

Scouting

Jack can do reconaissance with the best of them.

Level 2
The Kruthik Claws give a 4+2E bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks, the Great Raptor Mask gives 2+2E to Spot, and the Ythrak Mask or Shadow Mantle gives 4+2E to Listen checks.

Level 5
Trapfinding and access to a lot of scouty skills.

Level 8
Second level spells bring with them Silence and Invisibilty, the holy duo of scouting spells.

Level 9
A whole host of Incarnate soulmelds give bonuses to Spot, Search, Listen, Disable Device, Slight of Hand, etc. Also gets at-will Detect Evil.

Level 11
Scrolls of Invisibility and Silence are always handy to have around.

Level 18
Jack's familiar will have all of his skills, so it will be a pretty decent scout in its own right.

At 20th Level
If Jack is assigned trapfinding duty, he can shape the Thief's Gloves and Truthseeker Goggles for a total +26 to Search and +26 bonus to disable device. He can use Improvization to increase key rolls at need. As a scout, he will use scrolls of Invisiblity while flying to remain undetected while using his decent perception skills, possibly augmented by soulmelds to see other things. Jack can See Invisibility with his Hand of Glory and has scrolls to back it up.

Jack also has plenty low level divination spells (at +2 caster level!) like his at-will Detect Evil, Detect Magic, and Augury, which are useful for finding out what is around or ahead.

Spellcasting

Jack is not the best spellcaster out there, but there are a few gems among the low level spells. I'm not going to go level-by-level here since it's obvious when he gets spells.

At 20th Level
Jack can do crowd control with a few good area effect spells. Entangle, Grease, Impeding Stones, Web, and Glitterdust are all fairly potent even with lower caster levels and saves. He can easily fill the role of single target blaster as detailed above. Persisting Cloud of Knives while rendering targets flat-footed makes this blasting more multi-target.

Jack is a decent buffer. Just being within 100ft of him in his bicorne gives a +2 morale bonus to skills, saves, and attacks. He can use Dark Knowledge to give +1-+3 to attacks against certain foes. He can also use a number of lower level buffs at oddly high caster levels, and can cast them multiple times with pearls of power, so if the whole party needs protection from energy, he can oblige. In certain situations, Jack's copious scroll collection will make the difference between life and death, as with a well timed Remove Paralysis or Remove Fear.

[Godskook]

Whedab Ternock (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=213148)

[Godskook]

Adrian the Fair
Neutral Good Half-Fey Human, Supplicant of Kiri-Jolith

(From the Chronicles of Astinus, Volume 862)
Adrian the Fair was born in the year 1232 of the Fifth Age. His mother, a Solamnic Knight, was enraptured by his father, a fey. Though she was rescued in the physical sense by her comrades, she remained warped to his will for the rest of her brief life by the faerie's will. She died giving birth to Adrian at the remote temple of Kiri-Jolith where he spent his youth.

While he did not take as easily to the strictures of command and military discipline as most of Kiri-Jolith's followers, he was studious and pious. He was well received in the clergy and well liked in the temple.

Then came the armies of Chemosh. The minions of god of death came seeking a relic stored within the temple- a shard of the divine might of the High God that had been gifted to Paladine in this first war against Chaos in the age of starbirth. Seeing his brothers fall before the sheer numbers of their enemies, Adrian grabbed the reliquary and flew to his escape.

Fearing that the disciples of death would hunt him, he stayed far from civilization, wandering through the remote regions of Ansalon. Eventually he came across a caravan of traveling entertainers lead by a cleric of Branchala. He traveled with them for a time, learning both how to disguise his extraordinary features and how to use his inborn charisma to entertain and enrapture those who came to watch the entertainers. Eventually, however, the servants of Chemosh found him, and the caravan was ravaged. Escaping once again with the reliquary, he fled to the greatest bastion of goodness he knew of: he fled to the Citadel of Light.

While in the citadel, he began to find that he felt echos of Paladine's words through the relic he guarded. Though he never touched the relic and dared not wield it directly, he found that he had some measure of the gifts that were once granted by Paladin to his most faithful clerics.

Praying to Kiri-Jolith for guidance, he was presented with a new path: rather than merely protecting the relic, he would bring the battle to those who sought to usurp it.

But he would need allies to do so; Chemosh was mighty and his minions were many. He chose his allies from the greatest of Paladine's servants: traveling to the dragon isles, he sought the aid of the Metallic Dragons. Together they would bring the war to Chemosh and his deathless servants.
(Continued in volume 864, pg 197)

Ability Scores at 20
{table=head]Ability|Score
Str|13
Dex|12 [10 + 2 (template)]
Con|10 [12 - 2 (template)]
Int|10
Wis|13 [11 + 2 (template)]
Cha|40 [18 + 4 (template) + 5 (inherent) + 5 (level) + 6 (enhancement) + 2 (class)]
[/table]

Class and Feat Selection by Level
{table=head]ECL|Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Feats (italics note feats gained through class features) |Class|Template
1|0|
Half-Fey Template La+1|
-|
-|
-|
-|-|-| Fey, dr5/cold iron, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis, +4 Cha
2|0|
Half-Fey Template La+2|
-|
-|
-|
-|-|-| Fly (good, 2x speed), Charm Person at will, LLV, enchantment immunity
3|1|
Cloistered Cleric 1|
0|
2|
0|
2|Able Learner, Iron Will, Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword), Weapon Focus (longsword)| Turn Undead, Travel Domain, Knowledge Domain, Nobility Domain| Hypnotism 1/day, Faerie Fire or Glitterdust 1/day
4|2|
Cloistered Cleric 2|
1|
3|
0|
3| - | - | -
5|3|
Cloistered Cleric 3|
1|
3|
1|
3| Extra Turning | - | Detect Law 3/day, Sleep or Enthrall 1/day
6|4|
Divine Bard 1|
1|
3|
5|
7| -| Bardic Music et all| -
7|5|
Divine Bard 2|
2|
3|
6|
8| - | - | Confusion or Emotion 1/day
8|6|
Mystic Wanderer 1|
1|
3|
3|
5| Extra Music | Glory of the Divine | -
9|7|
Chameleon 1|
1|
3|
3|
5| - | Aptitude Focus 1/day | Protection from Law 3/day, Hideous Laughter or Suggestion 1/day
10|8|
Mystic 1|
2|
5|
6|
10| - | War Domain | -
11|9|
Citadel Mystic 1|
2|
7|
6|
12| Snowflake Wardance, Knowledge Devotion, War Devotion, and Travel Devotion | Class Granted Domain (sacrificed for 3 domain feats) | Eyebite or Lesser Geas 1/day
12|10|
Bright Warden of Paladine 1|
3|
9|
6|
12| -| Radiant Magic, Turn Undead | -
13|11|
Ordained Champion 1|
4|
11|
6|
14| Pure Soul, Power attack | Class Granted Domain (exchanged for Power Attack per class feature), Turn Undead, Modified Spontaneous Casting | Dominate Person or Hold Monster 1/day
14|12|
Ordained Champion 2|
5|
12|
6|
14| Diehard | Smite | -
15|13|
Sacred Purifier 1|
5|
14|
6|
16| - | Turn Undead, Greater Turning| Mass Invisibility 1/day
16|14|
Purifier of the Hallowed Doctrine|
5|
16|
6|
18| - | Aura of Purity, Detect Taint, Turn Undead| -
17|15|
Dragon Devotee 1|
5|
18|
6|
18| Epic of the Lost King | +2 Cha, Natural Armor +1 | Geas/Quest 1/day
18|16|
Dragonfire Adept 1|
5|
20|
6|
20| Dragontouched | Least invocations, Breath weapon 1d6| -
19|17|
Eldritch Disciple 1|
5|
22|
6|
22| Divine Might | Gift of the Divine Patron (Protective Aura), Turn Undead| Insanity or Mass Charm 1/day
20|18|
Divine Agent 1|
5|
22|
6|
24| Strength Devotion, Protection Devotion, Luck Devotion | Granted Domain (sacrificed for 3 domain feats)| -
[/table]

PRC Sources
Mystic Wandered: Magic of Faerun
Chameleon: Races of Destiny
Mystic: Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Bright Warden of Paladine: Dragonlance: Holy Orders of the Stars
Citadel Mystic: Dragonlance: Age of Mortals
Ordained Champion: Complete Champion
Sacred Purifier: Libris Mortis
Purifier of the Hallowed Doctrine: Heroes of Horror
Dragon Devotee: Races of the Dragon
Eldrich Disciple: Complete Mage
Divine Agent: Manual of the Planes

Feat, and Ability Details
Glory of the Divine: Charisma to AC when unarmored (sacred)
Aptitude focus: Cf. Races of Destiny 112
Radiant Magic: Convert a Turn Undead use to cause a cast spell to grant 20 ft of bright light
* Devotion: cf. Complete Champion
Modified Spontaneous Casting: Cast War Domain spells spontaneously, loose the ability to cast Cure/Inflict spontaneously
Smite: Expend a use of Turn Undead to gain +ChaMod on attack rolls and effective turning level to damage
Pure Soul: Taint Variant-- Cf. Heroes or Horror (system not presumed for build)
Aura of Purity: Taint Variant-- Cf. Heroes or Horror (system not presumed for build)
Detect Taint: Taint Variant-- Cf. Heroes or Horror (system not presumed for build)
Dragontouched: +1 spot, listen, and search, +1 savings throw vs paralasis/sleep, access to draconic feats
Gift of the Divine Patron (Protective Aura): Magic Circle against Evil 3+ChaMod 1/day
Divine Might: Consume one usage of turn undead to add charisma to damage for one round
Snowflake Wardance: Consume bardic music to add ChaMod to attack roll for Perform(dance) rounds, followed by fatigue
Epic of the Lost King: Consume bardic music to remove fatigue from up to 3 allies (including caster). Use 3 bardic musics to remove exhaustion in the same way.

Spells by Level
{table=head]Level|Cleric 0|Cleric 1|Cleric 2|Bard 0|Bard 1|Bard 2|Mystic 0|Mystic 1|Chameleon 0|Chameleon 1|Champion 2
1| 3|1+1|
2| 4|2+1|
3|4|2+1|1+1|
4|4|2+1|1+1|2
5|4|2+1|1+1|3|0
6|4|3+1|2+1|3|0
7|4|3+1|2+1|3|0||||4|2|0
8|4|3+1|2+1|3|0||5|3|4|2|0
9|4|3+1|2+1|3|1||5|3|4|2|0
10|4|3+1|2+1|3|2|0|5|3|4|2|0
11|4|3+1|2+1|3|2|0|5|3|4|2|0
12|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|1|5|3|4|2|0
13|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|1|5|3|4|2|0
14|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|2|5|3|4|2|0
15|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|2|5|3|4|2|0
16|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|2|5|3|4|2|0
17|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|2|5|3|4|2|0
18|4|3+1|2+1|3|3|2|5|3|4|2|0[/table]

Spell Selection
Spell selection is geared primarily towards buffing. Eagle's Splendor and Harmony (+4 fear resist, +2 hit/damage to Inspire courage, Magic of Faerun) are must haves.

Item Selection Selection
Adrian should have a level appropriate long sword with +1 of its budget given to the harmonizing enhancement.
He should invest in a Badge of Valor to improve his Inspire courage.
He should have a +6 enhancement bonus to Cha, and should acquire a +5 inherent bonus thereto.
While he shouldn't use armor or a shield, items such as bracers of armor are a good option.

Skills
First priority is qualification for PrCs.
Preform(Dance) should be taken to 8 to extend Snowflake wardance.
As many knowledge skills as possible should be taken to 8 as well to get use out of Knowledge devotion.

Combat:
At its heart, this is a power attack build. His attack bonus should include:
+5 BAB
+20 Snowflake Wardance
+20 Smite
+4 Inspire Courage (1 base, 2 spell, 1 item)
+1 Weapon focus
+1-3 Knowledge devotion (maybe)
+4-5 Weapon enhancement
+2 Aptitude focus (maybe)

For a total of about +50-60 attack bonus. A big chunk of this (probably ~30) can be burned in power attack to boost the damage.

In addition, smite will be adding 9 to the damage roll (from 9 class levels that advance turning), inspire courage will add 4, and Divine Might can be used to add an additional 20. This should safely be able to net him 60+ damage a round (quite respectable given the presumed power level of a campaign operating under the constraints of the challenge).

The biggest constraint here is the limitation of bardic music per day, which tops out at 6. This will limit the uses per day of Snowflake Wardance. However, once that is no longer an option, the longsword can be wielded in two hands to double the return from power attack and make up some of the difference. Turn attempts per day also provides some limitation (27 per day), especially if the devotion feats get used regularly.

Glory of the Divine from Mystic Wanderer also means that this rather substantial ChaMod is added to armor as a sacred bonus (which doesn't go away when flat footed, etc.)

With travel devotion and fly speed, Adrian has great mobility options. The combination of the template SLAs and the low level spells provide a great deal of utility for less straightforward challenges. The higher level template SLAs are effective combat options in themselves as well.


Errata:
Build Presentation
ECL 8 and ECL 9 BAB should both be listed as 2. (Mystic Wanderer and Chameleon both have a BAB of +0 at level 1).

Combat
The attack roll bonuses from Smite and Snowflake Wardance and the damage bonus from Divine Might in the combat section should both be listed at +15 rather than +20. The total attack bonus should be listed at +40-50 rather than +50-60.

While these issues do not effect the legality of the entry, they do represent undue carelessness on my part.

The author extends his apologies to the chairman, the judges, and the other contestants for these errors.

[Godskook]

Ren (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=212244)
Summary: A changeling focused on the concept of personal flexibility, acquiring a broad base of skills and knowledge, and particularly developing his own ability to change physically.

Miniature King of Smack elements, with great versatility and flexibility, especially if given time to prepare. Cheese or questionable rules uses are pointed out in Other Notes. Many conditional bonuses not directly included on sheet, beware. (i.e Knowledge Devotion, Law Devotion, etc.)

[Godskook]

That's all the legal builds I've had submitted. If your build was not posted, contact me for clarification. Its possible I need to clean my inbox, or there's a ruling you weren't aware of.

[Greenish]

I'll give the builds a proper look tomorrow, but a glance is enough to awe me. The creativity the challenge brought up is brilliant.

[Darkmatter]

Well, I'm looking forward to the judging. Not least to find out what the "frugal" rubric turns out to be.

[arguskos]

Gimme a day or two, and I'll post scores. :smallwink:

[Darkmatter]

Yeah, I kinda think the light sprinkling of Parmesan I used might have been a little conservative. However, I don't think power is going to be the determining category. All of the submitted builds seem to be quite capable of meeting most threats presented to them, and it's only 25% of the final score in any case. I'm really thinking frugality will be more important, largely because none of us contestants had more than a general idea how it would be scored when making our entries. Does taking a LA race/template count off? How much do flaws hurt you (if anything)? Does qualifying for Ruathar at 20th vs. never qualifying at all make a difference? Does taking more than one level of a class in a row give you a hit? I could see arguments for or against any of these mattering based on the OP. Like I said, I'm looking forward to the judging.

[PId6]

All of the builds are fairly interesting; waiting eagerly for results. I never had enough time to fully write up my build ideas, but I had the ideas of either a diplomancer or a bloodline-abusing true "Master of Nine" (without the class) Ur Priest. I was pretty sure I wasn't going to get any points for originality with either build though. :smallbiggrin:

[Il_Vec]

I tried to brew a Druid/monk/tatooed monk/warshaper/master of many forms but I couldn't make it work properly :smallannoyed:

[playswithfire]

Definitely some impressive builds. Looking forward to the scoring.

In the 'tried-but-couldn't department,' I'll throw in a Survivor/Fist of the Forest/maybe Rage Mage and a Soulknife/Soulbow/Shiba Protector

[arguskos]

Boilerplate Disclaimer, as always: Anything I say here is at the character, not the person. Always take this with a grain of salt (or five). I respect and acknowledge your hard work, and don't want to make you feel bad about entering, so if I'm harsh, it's because I want to see you get better. :smallwink:

Unique Disclaimer: I am reading the criteria in the following way, since it is the duty of every judge to interpret according to their design:
-Originality: To quote, "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue." :smallwink:
-Power: Can it stand up to, say, a mildly optimized Mage (this is a 5)? A mildly optimized Rogue (a 3)? A mildly optimized Fighter (a 1.5)?
-Frugality: This is not marked by excessive dips. A build of twenty dips isn't very creative, it's throwing crap together and giggling at how easy that was. I want to see lots of 2-4 level usages that all blend well into something excellent.
-Window Dressing: I hate this category, actually. It seems stupid, and covered by everything else. However, I'll go ahead and say that what I am scoring this on is how well you hide the fact that you're just avoiding a specific class. If you manage to make a coherent character, and not make it clear you built this to NOT be a Ruathar or whatever, I'm impressed.

Meshugah:
Originality: 3.5. You dipped a lot, which was the default we all expected. I wanted to see more creative usage of the challenge. You do get points for using Maug though, which was at least unexpected, though a cop-out IMO (see Frugality).
Power: 3. You are a construct, which is good. You have terribly useless spells, which is bad. You're a mediocre combatant, which is *shrugs*. You can probably carry your own weight in combat, but you're not going to excel anywhere.
Frugality: 2. Unimpressed, I am. You didn't do something interesting with the limitations, you just tossed crap together, which is, again, what we all expected. The most levels you have in anything is technically Maug (ECL 5), which feels like a cop out.
Window Dressing: 1. It's OBVIOUS this character is for the competition, not for creating something interesting and creative. I am unimpressed.

Total: 2.375. There is potential here, the potential to make something REALLY interesting, REALLY creative, even given the godawful requirement of "never get <lots of nice stuff here>", it just didn't happen.

Jack Divine:
Originality: 4. I... wasn't honestly expecting to see as many subsystems and different casting classes (with progression! :smalleek:) as Jack contains. I'm impressed, this is a good start.
Power: 3.5. This is hard to judge. He can't stand up against anything that has a serious focus, but he's the sort of character who can fill a lot of roles, do a lot of things, be quite a bit of stuff all at once. It makes it stupidly hard to judge his power, but I'm ballparking that he's decently powerful.
Frugality: 2.5. I dislike giving you a below-average score on this one, but, you DID take a lot of little dips. Now, it makes sense, but, I have to stick with my rules, and so, you do get points off for that.
Window Dressing: 4.5. Absolutely excellent. This doesn't look like a character who is avoiding something, it looks and feels like a character who is just faffing about, trying new stuff, being a pretty cool guy, and getting stuff done while doing it, which is EXACTLY what we should be seeing.

Total: 3.625. Very very solid. I liked it quite a bit. If I was playing in a low-optimization level 20 game, I'd ask for this build, heart and soul entire, and likely enjoy myself heartily.

Whedab Ternock:
Originality: 3. It wasn't really something that knocked my socks off, but, it was alright overall. Nothing screamed "WOAH TOTALLY UNIQUE AND AWESOME!" but nothing screamed "WOAH TOTALLY LAME!" either.
Power: 4. You're a Snowflake Wardancing Sneak Attack Swordsage. I cannot envision this is going to go poorly.
Frugality: 3.5. You managed to take a massive 7 levels in a prestige class, which DID floor me for a moment. Master of Masks was something I wondered if we'd see, and you made it a big part of the character, which impressed me. The rest of it... random dips, not much logic beyond mechanics, and the end with Acolyte of the Skin? Just says "I wanted to get 3rd level spells and BAB 6 at level 20 exactly, for style, and this was the only thing that worked", which bugs me. Nice style though.
Window Dressing: 3. It feels like it was built for this challenge, but, it doesn't look like it at first glance. Where with Jack I was like "wow, I'd have never guessed, even after a deep analysis" and with Meshugah I was like "wow, it's blatantly obvious the moment I clicked the spoiler", here I was like "well, that's interesting" but when I dug into it, it all started to feel very custom-made, not like it has a soul of it's own.

Total: 3.375. It's a solid entry. Can't complain on any serious level.

Adrian the Fair:
Originality: 3. It's a Snowflake Wardancer with Half-Fey, it's differently, but not beyond what I expected to see here. Nothing jumps out at me.
Power: 4. It's a Snowflake Wardancer with Smite and Knowledge Devotion. You hit the peoples and they falls downs.
Frugality: 2.5. Much like with Jack, I dislike giving you a low score, since it all plays very nicely. All those dips are thematic, and appropriate, but, they ARE all dips. This is the cooking equivalent of making a meal from 15 different dishes, each of which you use 1/8 of a cup of, which while it TECHNICALLY works, is not what I wanted to see. I wanted to see 6 dishes, each of which you take a cup from, to really torture this metaphor some more.
Window Dressing: 4.5. Here's the big points. Much like Jack, this stands out as being a CHARACTER, not an ENTRY. I enjoyed reading it immensely, and would like to play it sometime, and I normally avoid such builds.

Total: 3.5. It's solid, well done, and though you dipped more than I think was in the spirit of the thing, it all somehow works, like how a pile of wildly different colored legos somehow make something cool looking.

Ren:
Originality: 3. Hard to say honestly, given how many dips there were. However, scanning it over, I didn't see anything that made me say "wow, that's interesting indeed".
Power: 4.5. This is hands-down probably the most potent build here, thanks to all the cheesy combos listed at the end. I'm impressed, you managed to craft something crazy out of nothing.
Frugality: 1.5. THE DIPS BATMAN, THE DIPS. The most levels you take in anything is three, and you only take multiple levels in anything for three other classes. Literally >50% of the character is random dips, which makes me rage. This is not good cooking, it's tossing **** into a pot and hoping for the best. Even if you're a great chef (and you clearly are), it doesn't look good, it doesn't flow well, it's a lot of things I really don't like.
Window Dressing: 2. This was hard. I wanted to score this as a 1, since it looks much like Meshugah up above, BUT, given how well you comboed everything together, it said to me that you really tried, really really hard, to make a functional character who wasn't just trying to avoid Ruathar, and for that level of effort, you get a 2.

Total: 2.75. The power was off the hook, the rest of it wasn't as amazing as I wanted to see. You deserve unique commendation for the power level, honestly.

Also, as a general note, I know this is extra work, but honestly, ya'll could give us a write-up that doesn't involve the judges having to crawl through your character sheets. :smallsigh: It's a pet peeve of mine, and though I didn't let it affect my judging, my kneejerk reaction is to bitch you out for being lazy (though you weren't, given how detailed some of these got :smalleek:).

Overall impressions: There are some very strong entries here. I personally VERY MUCH enjoyed reading the majority of them, and Ren specifically had me going "WHAT IN THE BLUE BLOODY HELL" on more than one occasion with his combomaticpowers. I also very much enjoyed several other builds, such as Jack, one of the slickest builds I've yet seen in a competition (and this is now my third or fourth such judging). Well done, everyone, well done.

[Amphetryon]

Interesting reading, there, Arguskos. Thanks for chiming in.

[arguskos]

Interesting reading, there, Arguskos. Thanks for chiming in.
I'm really surprised no one else has chimed in, actually. There were five judges, and I'd like to see what the other four have to say.

[Greenish]

I'm really surprised no one else has chimed in, actually. There were five judges, and I'd like to see what the other four have to say.I'm onto it. :smallredface:

Ookay, here we go. Remember that even if I might sound dismissive towards any of the builds, they're all awesome and I couldn't have done better. Well, that latter part isn't much of a praise. Anyhow, onwards:

Meshugah (I didn't even remember that the King had a name.)
Originality: 4. Maugs are cool critters, and focusing on fear effects when you can't have ranks in Intimidate beyond 8 or 3rd level or higher spells wasn't something I was expecting.
Power: 2.5. CL equal to character level is cool. 1/day for three rounds, less so. Lots of low level, low CL spells from lists containing relatively few good defensive spells. Doesn't really pack a punch in melee. All in all, the weaknesses you'd expect from the challenge, but not much to overcome them.
Frugality: 3. There's some fear synergy from diverse classes, the build doesn't rest on any single class. Bit heavy on Beguiler though.
Window Dressing: 3. Maug gives cookie points in this category. Lots of spontanous low level spells can be fun, and the image of a very angry engine of destruction is undeniably cool.
Total: 12.5


Jack Divine
Originality: 3.5. DMM Persist, totemist, chameleon multicaster sneak attacker. Most of the components were very surprising in themselves, but combining them all so synergistically (is that even a word?) is cool.
Power: 4. I really like having the tactics and potential combos outlined for me, since I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer. Persisting Wizard/Assassin/Unseen Seer spells for high SA, then getting multiple attacks from soulmelds is a potent combo.
Frugality: 3. The build relies rather heavily on DMM (and to a lesser extend, totemist). Not very spread out.
Window Dressing: 4.5. The presentation is superb, the tactics and the possibilities really make me want to try my hand at something similar.
Total: 15


Whedab Ternock
Originality: 3. Snowflake Wardance, Swordsage, Master of Masks. Not hugely surprising, though you managed to fit in more MoM levels than I'd expected.
Power: 2.5. TWF with some hit boosters, SS maneuvers, SA. You'll hit, but you won't have many attacks or large damage. Gladiator mask, but I don't see any exotic weapons on your sheet.
Frugality: 3.5. Heavy MoM use, but then the build can't be said to be resting on it. Bard-Sage with SA.
Window Dressing: 2. Master of Masks is a funny PrC, SS and bard are grand, but the overall package isn't anything special.
Total: 11


Adrian the Fair
Originality: 3. Power Attacker with 5 BAB and 13 Str? Half-fey is pretty obvious choice, as are Devotions, Snowflake Wardances etc. Ordained Champion I wasn't expecting.
Power: 2. You can only sacrifice up to your BAB to-hit for PA. You'll be able to hit, but won't do much damage.
Frugality: 3.5. Bonus points for fitting three "mystics" in the build. The build is mostly rather coherent holy warrior, but the few dragon-related classes don't fit in so well.
Window Dressing: 3. I'm a big fan of domain feats and and other fancy uses for turning. I could see myself giving it a spin.

Other: You've marked MWP and WF for Longsword long before you actually get war domain. I don't know how you're trading a single domain into three domain feats, or how can you even have so many.
Total: 11.5


Ren
Originality: 3. Psionics, incarnum, ToB and factotum together. I approve.
Power: 4.5. Essentia shenanigans, natural weapon scaling, constant warshaper bonuses from changeling. Some dishes go well with cheese, and this one won't be upstaged easily.
Frugality: 3.5. Many distinct systems playing nice together. Un-unarmed Swordsage.
Window Dressing: 4. Gimme.
Total: 15

[Darkmatter]

This is not marked by excessive dips. A build of twenty dips isn't very creative, it's throwing crap together and giggling at how easy that was. I want to see lots of 2-4 level usages that all blend well into something excellent.

Unfortunately it wasn't possible to have more than a few levels in most any given class before running into that @!#% BAB cap or accidentally getting 3rd level spells / 3rd level powers / 5th level meldshaping / etc...

Thanks for the excellent and detailed (and timely) analysis, Arguskos!

[arguskos]

Unfortunately it wasn't possible to have more than a few levels in most any given class before running into that @!#% BAB cap or accidentally getting 3rd level spells / 3rd level powers / 5th level meldshaping / etc...
See, I don't buy that. Look at Whednab. He managed to fit SEVEN levels of a prestige class into his build. Master of Masks surely isn't the only option for such things. It could have been done, 2-4 levels across the board. Survivor never showed up, for example.


Thanks for the excellent and detailed (and timely) analysis, Arguskos!
Pleased to do so. Every entry was solid at worst, and excellent at best.

[Amphetryon]

I can't speak for others, but Survivor never showed up for my build because my reading of the Frugality rules meant that using extensive BAB +0 PrC forays would get them docked points and/or disqualified before being sent to the judges, in the same way that Godskook warned against extensive use of alternate systems like Psionics or Initiator classes.

[Darkmatter]

Same here, Amphetryon, hence my comment. I also got a similar impression about level adjustments (though evidently they were Kosher). Without LA or +0 BAB classes, it is to my knowledge impossible to have a qualifying build without any 1 level dips.

Not that I'm criticizing Argukos' metric, which he applied with admirable consistency; I'm just doing some belated venting on what was for me the most annoying part of crafting an entry.

[arguskos]

I'll happily agree with you two: the metric was aggravatingly unclear. I was expecting to see Survivor, since it fits, could make a nice thematic character, and would be amusing as all hell. We didn't though, which made me all ":smallconfused:".

[Arbitrarity]

Same here, Amphetryon, hence my comment. I also got a similar impression about level adjustments (though evidently they were Kosher). Without LA or +0 BAB classes, it is to my knowledge impossible to have a qualifying build without any 1 level dips.


Correct. Using 3 level dips of 1/2 BAB classes yields a BAB of +6 at level 18, which is untenable. Asking about LA, I got

LA is a dangerous thing, as it bypasses the spirit of the challenge in the same way as War Hulk would. Individual judges may vary in their opinions on this subject, but too much LA will not be a good idea.

I thus considered null BAB levels to violate the spirit of the challenge.

[Amphetryon]

A big thanks to Greenish for his thoughtful analysis and judgment as well.

[Darkmatter]

Oh, yes, indeed - thank you, Greenish. I'm actually impressed how quickly you and Arguskos managed to comb through the mangled mash of classes, systems, combos, and obscure sources that represent our collective entries.

[Ozymandias9]

Adrian the Fair
Originality: 3. Power Attacker with 5 BAB and 13 Str? Half-fey is pretty obvious choice, as are Devotions, Snowflake Wardances etc. Ordained Champion I wasn't expecting.
Power: 2. You can only sacrifice up to your BAB to-hit for PA. You'll be able to hit, but won't do much damage.
Frugality: 3.5. Bonus points for fitting three "mystics" in the build. The build is mostly rather coherent holy warrior, but the few dragon-related classes don't fit in so well.
Window Dressing: 3. I'm a big fan of domain feats and and other fancy uses for turning. I could see myself giving it a spin.

Other: You've marked MWP and WF for Longsword long before you actually get war domain. I don't know how you're trading a single domain into three domain feats, or how can you even have so many.
Total: 11.5

Wow, it looks like I copy-pasted an even earlier version of the build than I thought. At this point I'm (Adrian is mine) going to withdraw the entry: I clearly sent in something that's (quite literally) a rough draft.

The power attack thing is something I pulled about 3 revisions after what I apparently submitted (when I remembered that not having a BAB limitation on Power attack is one of the various house rules I use). I ended up replacing it with TWF (which doubles the output of divine might).

The MWP/WF issue was a matter shuffleing the build a bit-- war was initially one of the level one domains.

The domain feat thing, though, was a big surprise to me: I've apparently been laboring under an incorrect reading for some time. When I read your post, I rechecked CChamp: it's one Domain to one feat, up to 3 times. I had been reading it as "one domain for up to 3 feats" since the book came out.

[arguskos]

Oh, yes, indeed - thank you, Greenish. I'm actually impressed how quickly you and Arguskos managed to comb through the mangled mash of classes, systems, combos, and obscure sources that represent our collective entries.
I happen to have a large store of mechanical knowledge is all. :smallcool:

@Ozymandias9: You wrote Adrian, then? Do you have the ACTUAL build on hand? If you do, I'd like to see it, here if you don't mind.

[Ozymandias9]

I happen to have a large store of mechanical knowledge is all. :smallcool:

@Ozymandias9: You wrote Adrian, then? Do you have the ACTUAL build on hand? If you do, I'd like to see it, here if you don't mind.

Not handy: I'm a couple states away on business at the moment. I should be back home by the real computer in 10 days or so, but I doubt that your interest is that durable.

Honestly, the big difference between the presented version and my final version (which was still, apparently, based on a very wrong reading of Domain Feats), was that I boosted up dex at the cost of Con and lost the nobility domain (using Ordained Champion which had only previously been used to transmute one feat) to add TWF. I think Divine MIght also got moved earlier in the build, but I can't remember where.

Other than that, inconsistancies are a matter of incomplete revisions after shuffling levels around (mostly to make sure all the skill pre-recs could reasonably be met). Things like the fact that some of the BAB entries are inconsistant (the total still ends up at 5) or the fact that the War Domain Granted powers should be coming at the same level as War Domain, not where War Domain used to be.

[arguskos]

Yeah, don't want to wait 10 days. :smalltongue:

Though, the run down is good enough. I might have liked to see that actually be entered, but oh well, such is life, right? :smallwink:

[Ozymandias9]

Yeah, don't want to wait 10 days. :smalltongue:

Though, the run down is good enough. I might have liked to see that actually be entered, but oh well, such is life, right? :smallwink:

Indeed. But on the upside, I feel much better about the authors of CChamp now that I realize that they're not giving Cloistered Clerics 9 feats at level 1. (In hindsight, it seems kind of silly that I labored under such a serious misreading for, what, 3 years?)

[arguskos]

Indeed. But on the upside, I feel much better about the authors of CChamp now that I realize that they're not giving Cloistered Clerics 9 feats at level 1. (In hindsight, it seems kind of silly that I labored under such a serious misreading for, what, 3 years?)
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, that WAS a spectacular misread to be honest.

[Cieyrin]

Alright, scores. I'd have gotten this together sooner but life throws curve balls when you least expect.

Anyways, I enjoyed reading much of the material that was here and, while some things did rub me the wrong way, you presented something that worked quite well, one way or another. Now, without further ado, the scores!

Meshugah
Originality: 5 - Maug Rage Mage? Definitely different
Power: 3 - That large strength coupled with Rage is certainly good, though I wonder how much the casting actually helps, especially since you only get one Spell Rage a day. The Bloodline provided a lot to this and the various fear effects were nice but not as strong as they could have been, especially since Dread Witch doesn't grant Fear Immunity Piercing till 4th.
Frugality: 4 - Very spread around yet have something in common to create a good whole. The stint in Beguiler was both good but on the other hand not exactly powerful.
Window Dressing: 3 - Story covered everything, yet seemed like it could have been better invested in to tie things together some more, perhaps drawing more Disc World into it.

Final Score: Composite 3.75 Total 15

Jack Divine
Originality: 4 - Emulating Bard without being Bard. Impressive, though spells are common equalizers here.
Power: 4 - You highly detail everything you could do and show the versatility and how much you make up for your limits. You could have nixed Swordsage at the end for 3rd level Wizard spells at the end, which would have pushed you positively into top marks here.
Frugality: 5 - Quite frugal, with a max of 3 levels in any one thing.
Window Dressing: 5 - Well put together, with fluff and crunch mixing seemlessly. I applaud your efforts.

Final Score: Composite 4.5 Total 18

Whedab Ternock
Originality: 3 - Master of Masks is a seeming staple here and that's more or less what you're pushing as your concept, with sneak dice thrown in.
Power: 4 - Decently powerful, though you need to setup your sneak attacks, which you don't seem to have many mechanisms for besides grabbing a flank buddy.
Frugality: 2 - 7 levels of Master of Masks isn't frugal. It's the bulk of your build, spiced up with other morsels, which don't change the flavor that much.
Window Dressing: 3 - Having to read out of Mythweavers makes it difficult to judge, as a whole, especially since I didn't get to see your build till the bottom. Fluff was okay but not that great. Felt rather cookie cutter to me.

Final Score: Composite 3 Total 12

Adrian the Fair
Originality: 4 - Half-Fey Caster mess. Check.
Power: 2 - Not as powerful as you claim, given Power Attack uses BAB, not attack bonus, for damage trade in. Also, the clause about converting domains to devotions means you have 3 devotions TOTAL, not per domain. Also, Kiri Jolith has 3 domains, Good, Strength and War. While I could see Nobility being available, that doesn't excuse the mad grab for Travel, Protection and Luck.
Frugality: 5 - Frugal it is, despite the many errors.
Window Dressing: 2 - While I liked the Dragonlance fluff, this thing made very little sense, especially since you don't qualify for Citadel Mystic by 11th, since neither Cloistered Cleric or Chameleon gave spontaneous divine casting and both Mystic and Divine Bard only had 1st level spells.

Final Score: Composite 3.25 Total 13

Ren
Originality: 4.5 - Changeling Psionic Juggernaut. Would be 5 but there's Chameleon in there, which everybody had, more or less.
Power: 4 - You certainly are the talented Cuisinart, though you may have issues with casters.
Frugality: 4.5 - Reasonably frugal, though 4 levels in Soul Manifester, while useful in pulling things together, is a significant dip.
Window Dressing: 5 - Very well put together, fluff well thought out and tricks and notes well-received. Minor quibble of it being only in Mythweavers but not enough to that I'll dock points, given you had a thorough explanation in your notes. Bravo.

Final Score: Composite 4.5 Total 18

Again, congrats to entering and coming up with something interesting. Hope to see you next contest with something even better, contestants. =D

[Greenish]

Oh, yes, indeed - thank you, Greenish. I'm actually impressed how quickly you and Arguskos managed to comb through the mangled mash of classes, systems, combos, and obscure sources that represent our collective entries.I took longer on it that I'd have liked, but some things just had me scratching my head. With Adrian, I kept trying to figure out the devotion feat stuff, on the basis that the maker of the build would've known how the stuff works, but I couldn't make it match.

Oh, and this might've been the first time in my life I've seen the term "frugality", so yeah. My take of it was that the build shouldn't rest on just one class or race, but that everything should contribute. I fear I had pretty much the opposite approach to it than Arguskos.

Oh well, the first (and probably the last) time I was judging these things. :smallcool:

[Darkmatter]

Another county heard from! Thanks for the thoughtful review, Cieyrin.

I find it amusing that Arguskos and Cieyrin had diametrically opposite views of the "frugal" category, and I can't really argue with either of them.


I took longer on it that I'd have liked, but some things just had me scratching my head.

Yeah, I've got some questions on the mechanics of some of the other entries myself...

[Ozymandias9]

Window Dressing: 2 - While I liked the Dragonlance fluff, this thing made very little sense, especially since you don't qualify for Citadel Mystic by 11th, since neither Cloistered Cleric or Chameleon gave spontaneous divine casting and both Mystic and Divine Bard only had 1st level spells.

Humm. That's something I missed entirely in the level shuffling. Chalk another error up for this one.

The extraneous domains probably could have been explained better: there were points in the build where prestige classes added Domains without requiring them to be linked to a prior deity. I was presuming that those domains would be taken there and that, much like in the case of a cleric of a cause's domains, that would be sufficient. It is an, admittedly, questionable avenue, and I probably should have presented it as such.

[Amphetryon]

Another county heard from! Thanks for the thoughtful review, Cieyrin.

I find it amusing that Arguskos and Cieyrin had diametrically opposite views of the "frugal" category, and I can't really argue with either of them.

Yeah, I've got some questions on the mechanics of some of the other entries myself... Chiming in with my own thanks on your input, Cieyrin.

I agree that it's interesting that the "frugality" category was apparently broadly defined enough to cause diametrically opposed readings and, therefore, ratings, from Arguskos and Cieyrin. I would be interested, after the contest is over, to hear from Godskook as to which of these approaches, if either, was closer to his original intent.

[playswithfire]

Whedab Ternock
Window Dressing: 2 - First things, your race choice is illegal, as Spellscales are Dragonblooded, meaning they don't qualify for the Draconic template.

Draconic can be applied to "any living, corporeal creature except a dragon". While dragonblood lets you qualify for things that require dragon, it explicitly "does not confer the dragon type" so I thought I was OK.

Thanks for judging.

EDIT: Also chiming in as being confused about what "frugality" meant.

[Quietus]

Kinda sad that I only saw this now, and three pages in realized it was over... AFTER drawing an outline for a skillmonkey in my head, based on many levels of Bard, a bunch of levels of Survivor (so I can take a trap to the face and not die), track down that one feat that lets me make some kinda bonus to my skills based on my Bard level, then follow that with a boatload of 1-level spellcasting class dips for several different flavors of casting, using spells to replace high-level skill usage; Knock instead of Open Lock, Detect Secret Doors in place of Search, etc.

My regards to everyone who competed!

[Godskook]

Oh, and this might've been the first time in my life I've seen the term "frugality", so yeah. My take of it was that the build shouldn't rest on just one class or race, but that everything should contribute. I fear I had pretty much the opposite approach to it than Arguskos.

Your approach was more in line with what I had originally expected from the category. Arguskos' approach was different take on the category, but it made for an interesting read.

[Cieyrin]

Draconic can be applied to "any living, corporeal creature except a dragon". While dragonblood lets you qualify for things that require dragon, it explicitly "does not confer the dragon type" so I thought I was OK.

Thanks for judging.

You know, you're absolutely right. This is the same situation as Lesser Aasimar Saints, despite the Planetouched subtype. I'm going to adjust the score accordingly.

I can only say this has been a stressful week leading up to now with my hiatus upon me. Hopefully, by the time I'm back, my head will be back in teh right place.

Again, I apologize for my oversight.

[playswithfire]

You know, you're absolutely right. This is the same situation as Lesser Aasimar Saints, despite the Planetouched subtype. I'm going to adjust the score accordingly.

I can only say this has been a stressful week leading up to now with my hiatus upon me. Hopefully, by the time I'm back, my head will be back in teh right place.

Again, I apologize for my oversight.

Not a problem. Enjoy your hiatus.

[arguskos]

Your approach was more in line with what I had originally expected from the category. Arguskos' approach was different take on the category, but it made for an interesting read.
It seemed to me that frugality meant "make the most of very little" (as the term is used in layman's speech, anyways). In that vein, I decided that the truly frugal would be using not much and making it go very far, leading to my judgment in that category.

By the by, I would personally enjoy judging this again, if that's alright. It was a good time, and I've no head for builds personally.

[Lord of Syntax]

Meshugah:

Originality: I lurve the Maug, they are (IMHO) the only OK thing from Fiend Folio. The multiclassing is clever, I would never think of that combo. Originality is a 9.7.
Power Level: Fairly powerful, spell DCs are fairly bad, Melee does not really do well at higher levels. (i.e past 6) Power Level is a 7.8.
Frugality: Not much to be said. Perfect 10.
Window Dressing: Very good. 8.8.
The rest tomorrow.

[Darkmatter]

Frugality: Not much to be said. Perfect 10.

Actually, would you mind elaborating? At least enough to give us the definition of "frugal" you're using?

EDIT to avoid double posting: Are we expecting any more judges to weigh in?

[Cieyrin]

Hmm, I come back from my hiatus and not a whole hell of a lot has happened here...

Should we just declare a victor, since I doubt any other judges are going to pop in at this point.

[Amphetryon]

woohoo, there's still life in this thread!